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Manticores and Manicures: a Well Groomed Table Top Thread.

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Posts

  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    I think that alignment being thought of as a 3x3 grid, rather than a weird and uneven alignment octagon is a big part of the issue

  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    iunno, there used to be a secret good language and a secret language of law.

    it used to have a lot more mechanical impact than it does now in DnD, which i think is almost none now? i think there is still a protection from good or evil spell, but aside from that smite evil is gone, and detect evil is like detect outsiders and the like.

    i think it's an alight initial guideline. but nothing more than that.

    BahamutZEROCouscousiguanacusLaOsBucketman
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited January 3
    Yes, that's what's wrong with it. Not enough axises.

    We need an alignment hypercube.

    BahamutZERO on
    BahamutZERO.gif
    Duke 2.0
  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    Behold the alignment Pentatope!

    CouscousGrey Ghost
  • TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    I've always felt that alignment is best used as a tool to describe the ways a character acts and thinks, rather than as a way to prescribe those things. It should be malleable and responsive to changes in behavior and belief.

    webguy20
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 3
    Even AD&D 1e basically said to take them as guidelines and not hard rules.
    After generating the abilities of your character, selecting his or her race, and deciding upon a class, it is necessary to determine the alignment of the character. It is possible that the selection of the class your character will profess has predetermined alignment: a druid is neutral, a paladin is lawful good, a thief can be neutral or evil, an assassin is always evil. Yet, except for druids and paladins, such restrictions still leave latitude - the thief can be lawful neutral, lawful evil, neutral evil, chaotic evil, chaotic neutral, neutral, or even neutral good; and the assassin has nearly as many choices. The alignments possible for characters are described below.
    Chaotic Evil: The major precepts of this alignment are freedom, randomness, and woe. Laws and order, kindness, and good deeds are disdained. life has no value. By promoting chaos and evil, those of this alignment hope to bring themselves to positions of power, glory, and prestige in a system ruled by individual caprice and their own whims.

    Chaotic Good: While creatures of this alignment view freedom and the randomness of action as ultimate truths, they likewise place value on life and the welfare of each individual. Respect for individualism is also great. By promoting the gods of chaotic good, characters of this alignment seek to spread their values throughout the world.

    Chaotic Neutral: Above respect for life and good, or disregard for life and promotion of evil, the chaotic neutral places randomness and disorder. Good and evil are complimentary balance arms. Neither are preferred, nor must either prevail, for ultimate chaos would then suffer.

    Lawful Evil: Creatures of this alignment are great respecters of laws and strict order, but life, beauty, truth, freedom and the like are held as valueless, or at least scorned. By adhering to stringent discipline, those of lawful evil alignment hope to impose their yoke upon the world.

    lawful Good: While as strict in their prosecution of law and order, characters of lawful good alignment follow these precepts to improve the common weal. Certain freedoms must, of course, be sacrificed in order to bring order; but truth is of highest value, and life and beauty of great importance. The benefits of this society are to be brought to all.

    lawful Neutral: Those of this alignment view regulation as all-important, taking a middle road betwixt evil and good. This is because the ultimate harmony of the world -and the whole of the universe - is considered by lawful neutral creatures to have its sole hope rest upon law and order. Evil or good are immaterial beside the determined purpose of bringing all to predictability and regulation.

    Neutral Evil: The neutral evil creature views law and chaos as unnecessary considerations, for pure evil is all-in-all. Either might be used, but both are disdained as foolish clutter useless in eventually bringing maximum evilness to the world.

    Neutral Good: Unlike those directly opposite them (neutral evil) in alignment, creatures of neutral good believe that there must be some regulation in combination with freedoms if the best is to be brought to the world - the most beneficial conditions for living things in general and intelligent creatures in particular.

    True Neutral: The "true" neutral looks upon all other alignments as facets of the system of things. Thus, each aspect - evil and good, chaos and law - of things must be retained in balance to maintain the status quo; for things as they are cannot be improved upon except temporarily, and even then but superficially. Nature will prevail and keep things as they were meant to be, provided the "wheel" surrounding the hub of nature does not become unbalanced due to the work of unnatural forces - such as human and other intelligent creatures interfering with what is meant to be.
    Naturally, there are all variations and shades of tendencies within each alignment. The descriptions are generalizations only. A character can be basically good in its "true" neutrality, or tend towards evil. It is probable that your campaign referee will keep a graph of the drift of your character on the alignment chart. This is affected by the actions (and desires) of your character during the course of each adventure, and will be reflected on the graph. You may find that these actions are such as to cause the declared alignment to be shifted towards, or actually to, some other.

    Changing Alignment:
    While involuntary change of alignment is quite possible, it is very difficult for a character to voluntarily switch from one to another, except within limited areas. Evil alignment can be varied along the like axis. The neutral character can opt for some more specific alignment. Your referee will probably require certain stringent sacrifices and appropriate acts - possibly a quest, as well - for any other voluntary alignment change. In fact, even axial change within evil or good, or radial movement from neutrality may require strong proofs of various sorts. Further voluntary change will be even more difficult. Changing bock to a forsaken alignment is next to impossible on a voluntary basis. Even involuntary drift will bring the necessity of great penance.

    Couscous on
    Jacobkosh
  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    edited January 3
    Nah the octagon doesn't have more axes, it's just a slightly different way to draw it for the sake of conceptualization, like so:

    vqpimflcx9mc.jpg

    It reflects more than the alignments aren't equal in commonality or population, and that LN and NG and so on all have a further extent of their one alignment as opposed to the mix created by living in the between place.

    You can also conceptualize the Neutral square as being a circle, I just drew it this way because it's easier.

    Straightzi on
    Bucketman
  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Bit of a reach back, but I would absolutely run It's Always Sunny in Ravnica/Waterdeep (Or some Seinfeldian venture) for a crew of folks, given about half the games I run have elements like those anyways. It's amazing the kind of petty machinations characters will develop over literally nothing.

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
  • ZonugalZonugal The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Matev wrote: »
    Bit of a reach back, but I would absolutely run It's Always Sunny in Ravnica/Waterdeep (Or some Seinfeldian venture) for a crew of folks, given about half the games I run have elements like those anyways. It's amazing the kind of petty machinations characters will develop over literally nothing.

    You could absolutely do an It's Always Sunny type of game in D&D but you'd have to craft the adventures to be: low-level, usually grifts/cons, and have them be infused with so much pettiness.

    2mw6ukw.jpg
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Couscous wrote: »
    Even AD&D 1e basically said to take them as guidelines and not hard rules.

    I don't htink anyone here would disagree with this

  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    The pettiness is easy, as is not worrying necessarily about progression, it's mostly about establishing the feel at the ground floor, making sure the background cast is memorable in their own ways, and being able to nudge things into getting out of hand in the best directions.

    "We're not really the 'go out and kill a lich' types."

    "But if that elf sold you a bum spellbook, have you come to the right place."

    *

    "Um....not be the horse's ass, but I spent our tavern money on magic beans."

    "Again!? That explains the Storm Giant in the town square..."

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
  • MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    Matev wrote: »
    Bit of a reach back, but I would absolutely run It's Always Sunny in Ravnica/Waterdeep (Or some Seinfeldian venture) for a crew of folks, given about half the games I run have elements like those anyways. It's amazing the kind of petty machinations characters will develop over literally nothing.

    sorry i was out moving snow but, Hello

    how can i help with this? my price is one Elf Wizard in your game.

    MatevBucketman
  • DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) I want to cut to the feelingRegistered User regular
    I only use alignment as a quick answer for what my character might do in any given situation

    I guess I find it kind of bizarre to associate chaos with laziness, in some of the examples I'm seeing? Impatience, sure, but that doesn't mean someone is going to be a complete dick about it. How we interpret these alignments says more about ourselves, and our personal moral and ethical compasses (and biases) than anything else.

    As someone who considers herself an anarcho-communist, I have cause to disagree with some of the comparisons floating around!


    Sometimes, though, you get those actions that almost everyone can agree on - your traditional video game "kick a puppy vs. protecting an otter orphanage" type of dichotomies.

    I am streamer, destroyer of worlds. [M, Tu, W, F: 2-6 pm EST] and [Saturday: 3-8 pm EST]
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  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Melding wrote: »
    Matev wrote: »
    Bit of a reach back, but I would absolutely run It's Always Sunny in Ravnica/Waterdeep (Or some Seinfeldian venture) for a crew of folks, given about half the games I run have elements like those anyways. It's amazing the kind of petty machinations characters will develop over literally nothing.

    sorry i was out moving snow but, Hello

    how can i help with this? my price is one Elf Wizard in your game.

    Find more players, like we’d likely want 2-4 depending. Also, start pondering what particular backdrop you want to start ruining. I can spin ideas for a few, but narrowing my focus would help.

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
This discussion has been closed.