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Manticores and Manicures: a Well Groomed Table Top Thread.

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    Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    I've actually been thinking about it since and also decided he's more neutral, because if I say chaotic there might be an expectation that I'm crusading against the system and that's not really number 1 on the agenda

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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Chaotic Good is Robin Hood

    It's as easy as that

    i feel like this depends on the version

    if it's robin hood who's that way because he's a free spirit who can't be fenced in etc etc then absolutely

    but there's those other interpretation where he's like, forced into the life because being a good guy has been outlawed

    to me it depends on what you think would happen once the good king is restored. is he going to hang out in the woods because he fundamentally doesn't like structure or the company of others that much or is he going to move back into town with maid marian and be a just ruler for his people

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Chaotic Good is Robin Hood

    It's as easy as that

    i feel like this depends on the version

    There are only two Robin Hoods that come to my mind when I think of the character.

    Cary Elwes' from Robin Hood: Men in Tights & the fox version from Disney's animated film.

    Where would we put them, alignment-wise?

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Chaotic Good is Robin Hood

    It's as easy as that

    i feel like this depends on the version

    if it's robin hood who's that way because he's a free spirit who can't be fenced in etc etc then absolutely

    but there's those other interpretation where he's like, forced into the life because being a good guy has been outlawed

    to me it depends on what you think would happen once the good king is restored. is he going to hang out in the woods because he fundamentally doesn't like structure or the company of others that much or is he going to move back into town with maid marian and be a just ruler for his people

    Robin of Locksley, the theoretical future Robin who might happen if order and justice were restored to Nottingham and the surrounding areas, can be a different alignment than Robin Hood.

    But as long as he is Robin Hood, he's chaotic good.

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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Chaotic Good is Robin Hood

    It's as easy as that

    i feel like this depends on the version

    There are only two Robin Hoods that come to my mind when I think of the character.

    Cary Elwes' from Robin Hood: Men in Tights & the fox version from Disney's animated film.

    Where would we put them, alignment-wise?

    honestly I haven't seen either of those in years

    I think of Errol Flynn's (definitely chaotic), Kevin Costner's (definitely neutral), and the amazing Russel Crowe one where he digs the Magna Carta out of a lost ancient tomb and then it cuts to a scene with King John laughing at some noblemen who are like YOU ARE A TYRANT! and he's like HA HA HA! BUT HOW WILL YOU STOP ME?! and russell crowe walks into the room and shouts WITH THIS! and holds up a giant piece of paper that has "Magna Carta" written on it in big letters and the entire room goes GASP

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Sometimes Robin Hood is fine with murdering children to make sure they don't talk.

    Edit: To be fair, it was Little John that murdered the child.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_and_the_Monk
    Little John talks of the May morning, but Robin Hood is still unhappy, because he cannot go to Mass or matins. He decides to go to a service in Nottingham, inspired by his devotion to the Virgin Mary. "Moche, the mylner sun" (Much the Miller's Son) advises him to take at least twelve men; he refuses and goes with only Little John.

    On the way, he makes a bet with Little John, loses, and refuses to pay. Little John leaves him.

    Robin goes to St. Mary's in Nottingham and prays. A monk whom he had robbed sees him and tells the sheriff, who goes with many men and fights with him.

    The text breaks off at this point; neither Robin's capture nor the news reaching his men are included, but the story takes up with the men's shock, and Little John's being the only one to keep his wits about him. He declares they must rescue him. They catch the monk riding with a little page; Little John kills the monk for his treachery, and Much kills the page so that he could not tell who they were.

    Little John and Much go to the (unnamed) king with the monk's letters and tell him the monk died on the way. The king gives them gifts and directions to bring Robin Hood to him. Little John brings the letters to the sheriff and tells him that the monk did not come because the king had made him an abbot. They get into the prison, kill the jailor, and escape with Robin. The sheriff does not dare face the king. Robin says that Little John has done him a good turn in return for the ill one he played, and offered to be his man; Little John still wants him to remain his master.

    The king is enraged that the men managed to fool him, but admits that Little John is the most loyal man in England, and since they were all fooled, lets it go.
    Old ballads were much more fine with kind of murderous heroes.

    Couscous on
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    Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    Does that actually happen in that movie

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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    I don't agree with the idea that a chaotic good character would necessarily have a difficult time living in a just society

    the average D&D party requires a LOT of flexibility when it comes to alignments, and I don't think it's an especially different situation for a NPC

    could I see a particularly extreme CG person living on the fringe? absolutely, but I don't see them as a gold standard for it

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    The Robin Hood I am specifically thinking of, for the record, is the Howard Pyle version, because there has never been a good Robin Hood movie

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Does that actually happen in that movie

    It sounds about right given Gladiator, which also starred Russell Crowe.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Any existing society and a just society don't feel like they would ever intersect enough for a chaotic good character to not be breaking a ton of the rules of society.

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    Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    The Robin Hood I am specifically thinking of, for the record, is the Howard Pyle version, because there has never been a good Robin Hood movie

    DIS

    A

    GREE

    Robin Hood: Men In Tights has already been mentioned in this thread, sir.

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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    turns out robin hood was an anfeud

    wild

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    The Robin Hood I am specifically thinking of, for the record, is the Howard Pyle version, because there has never been a good Robin Hood movie

    DIS

    A

    GREE

    Robin Hood: Men In Tights has already been mentioned in this thread, sir.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzfo7pmGsHg

    You sure about that?

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    Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    I loved Men in Tights when I first saw it but I tried to revisit it a couple years ago and basically none of it worked for me

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    I want to commission someone to do some DnD art for my current group but I have no idea where to start looking for this kinda thing.

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I want to commission someone to do some DnD art for my current group but I have no idea where to start looking for this kinda thing.

    Perhaps start your search here?

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    I loved Men in Tights when I first saw it but I tried to revisit it a couple years ago and basically none of it worked for me

    Agreed, to a degree.

    A lot of the modern/contemporary parts are pretty rough.

    But I'd argue there are some very positive elements in the film:

    -- The casting is still phenomenal.
    -- The songs (minus the bookend chorus) are generally enjoyable.
    -- A lot of the simple gags are still pretty good (like anytime King Richard has to interact with any court member).

    Zonugal on
    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I want to commission someone to do some DnD art for my current group but I have no idea where to start looking for this kinda thing.

    Perhaps start your search here?

    Hmmm, that just seems too convenient.

    (Thanks I never go to that part of the forum.)

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    The only thing I consider important about Robin Hood is that he has to have his ass kicked by anybody who joins his band of Merry Men before they join it.

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Lawful centrism, chaotic radicalism, evil self-centered interest, good altruistic interest.

    Think about it.

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    A lot of artist have their own sites with a dedicated section for how to summon them and the rules of their liminal binding, or hang out on conceptart.org or artstation.com, or deviantart and tumblr if you can sift through the madness.

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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Zonugal wrote: »
    So a previous DM of mine got convinced to try playing D&D again (partly by me but others as well, we haven't played since May of 2018).

    But he's insistent on hosting, which he did previously, but that was when he lived closer to me. He used to be maybe 20-30 minutes away, but two weeks ago he moved to an area 60-90 minutes away (with a toll bridge).

    So earlier today I told him I was bowing out of these monthly games, and when asked why, I provided the reason above and also added that I didn't want to travel so far for a game where half the players are Skyping in (that's just a personal matter but one I'm rather stingy on).

    And now he's offended.

    Yaaaaaaaaaaaay.

    I would Mayyyyybe drive that far for a monthly game, but only if everyone was in person and it was an 8-10 hour game. That's a big ask though.

    Maybe its because I live in a more country area, but I have a buddy who drives this far for our bi-weekly games. Of course we play 5 hours at least every session and he really enjoys getting out of the house

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    In what RPG setting would an anarchist primitivist make the most sense?

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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    dark sun

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    MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    chaotic good doesn't care about rules when they are rules that don't do good. following laws that protect people? not a problem for CG. giving your land lord rent money because "it's the law"? not as good, get fucked legalized robber baron.

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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Does that actually happen in that movie

    basically yes

    also the climax of the movie is that the french invade england with medieval higgins boats

    like the little front door lowers onto the beach and horses rush out of it like medieval D-day

    it is the most beautifully stupid thing i have ever seen

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Bucketman wrote: »
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Zonugal wrote: »
    So a previous DM of mine got convinced to try playing D&D again (partly by me but others as well, we haven't played since May of 2018).

    But he's insistent on hosting, which he did previously, but that was when he lived closer to me. He used to be maybe 20-30 minutes away, but two weeks ago he moved to an area 60-90 minutes away (with a toll bridge).

    So earlier today I told him I was bowing out of these monthly games, and when asked why, I provided the reason above and also added that I didn't want to travel so far for a game where half the players are Skyping in (that's just a personal matter but one I'm rather stingy on).

    And now he's offended.

    Yaaaaaaaaaaaay.

    I would Mayyyyybe drive that far for a monthly game, but only if everyone was in person and it was an 8-10 hour game. That's a big ask though.

    Maybe its because I live in a more country area, but I have a buddy who drives this far for our bi-weekly games. Of course we play 5 hours at least every session and he really enjoys getting out of the house

    There are other factors at play here, like how this friend seems to refuse visiting my own home at all and that his wife & I don't like each other.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Couscous wrote: »
    In what RPG setting would an anarchist primitivist make the most sense?

    Literally anyone can say F the rules and live in a shack. Even in a cyberpunk distopia there’s a guy living in a trashcan with their head-plugs pulled out.

    Hermits are a thing.

    As for actively doing something to make the world more lawless and primitive, a guess an evil plant-magic user in a fantasy world.

    Or a hokey super villain in a Marvel-like setting.

    You can make anything work, it’s pretend.

    Endless_Serpents on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    The Wikipedia synopsis is hilarious.
    In the year 1199, Robin Longstride (Russell Crowe) serves as a common archer in the army of King Richard the Lionheart (Danny Huston). A veteran of Richard's crusade, he now takes part in the siege of Chalus Castle. Disillusioned and war-weary, he gives a frank but unflattering appraisal of the King's conduct when the King asks his opinion, and Robin and his comrades—archers Allan A'Dayle (Alan Doyle) and Will Scarlett (Scott Grimes) and soldier Little John (Kevin Durand)—find themselves in the stocks.

    When the King is slain during an attack on the castle, Robin and his men decide to free themselves and desert. They come across an ambush of the English royal guard by Godfrey (Mark Strong), an English knight who has conspired with King Philip of France to assassinate King Richard. After chasing Godfrey away, Robin decides to take advantage of the situation by having his men impersonate the dead English knights to return to England. Before they depart to sail across the Channel, Robin promises one of the dying knights, Sir Robert Loxley (Douglas Hodge), to return his sword to his father in Nottingham.

    Awaking to find his party in the Thames estuary, Robin must continue to assume the identity of Loxley to inform the royal family of King Richard's death. He witnesses the coronation of King John (Oscar Isaac), who orders the collection of harsh new taxes and dispatches Godfrey to the North to do so—unaware that Godfrey will instead use French troops to stir up unrest and to prepare for King Philip to invade England.

    Robin and his companions head to Nottingham, where Loxley's elderly and blind father, Sir Walter (Max von Sydow), asks him to continue impersonating his son to prevent the Crown from seizing the Loxley family lands. Loxley's widow, Lady Marian (Cate Blanchett), is initially cold toward Robin, but warms to him when he and his men merrily recover tithed grain for the townsfolk to plant.

    Godfrey's actions incite the northern barons, who march to meet King John. Speaking now for Sir Walter, Robin proposes that King John agree to a charter of rights to ensure the rights of every Englishman and to unite his country. Having realized Godfrey's deception, and knowing he must meet the French invasion with an army, the King agrees. Meanwhile, French marauders plunder Nottingham. Robin and the northern barons arrive to stop Godfrey's men, but not before Godfrey has slain the blind Sir Walter.

    As the main French expeditionary force begins its invasion of England on a beach below the cliffs of Dover, Robin leads the now united English army against them. In the midst of the battle, Robin duels with Godfrey, who attempts to kill Marion and flees until Robin finally kills him with an arrow from afar. King Philip realizes that his plan to divide England has failed and calls off his invasion. When King John sees the French surrendering to Robin instead of to himself, he senses a threat to his power. In London, King John reneges on his promise to sign the charter and declares Robin an outlaw to be hunted throughout the kingdom. The Sheriff of Nottingham (Matthew Macfadyen) announces the decree, and Robin and his men flee to Sherwood Forest with the orphans of Nottingham. Marion narrates their new life in the greenwood, noting that they live in equality as they right the many wrongs in the kingdom of King John. And "the legend begins".
    The best silly movies are the ones where a dry and factual description of them is hilarious in itself.

    "The legend begins" at the end in quotes is the cherry on the sundae.

    $200 million budget.

    The myth around the Magna Carta continues to be ridiculous nonsense on the level of the ridiculous myths about the Pilgrims and Plymouth, George Washington's truthfulness, and the past not being kind of horrifying in general.

    Couscous on
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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Oh in case anyone cares about this weird space game. We are a shipping vessel, freelance. Brought on for our skills. We were on a space station when we got our first official job: Transport 5 tons of Vape Juice to a nearby planet. We have been clued in to some possible side work thats a little less shipping and a little more shooting available on planet. We also killed some space raiders, stole their ship, and sold it for 5 million space dollars so now were all equipped to the gills with everything we could ever want.

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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited January 2019
    \
    Melding wrote: »
    chaotic good doesn't care about rules when they are rules that don't do good. following laws that protect people? not a problem for CG. giving your land lord rent money because "it's the law"? not as good, get fucked legalized robber baron.

    if you cheerfully follow rules that are just that is, or at least leans toward, neutral good or even lawful good

    law/chaos is intended to be a completely separate axis from good/evil.

    there are lots of reasons to be chaotic, from ideological commitment to anarchy to just like, being kind of a contrarian who doesn't like being told what to do, even if it's a reasonable thing like "eat your vegetables"

    that doesn't mean a chaotic good person needs to go around bucking THE SYSTEM at every turn - alignment should never be a straitjacket - but it can absolutely color their outlook even in a just society, making them impatient with bureaucracy (even well-intentioned bureaucracy) and all those little rules that exist to smooth the progress of life between great numbers of people but don't have much of an intrinsically moral component, like laws about noise and ittering

    Jacobkosh on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    In what RPG setting would an anarchist primitivist make the most sense?

    Literally anyone can say F the rules and live in a shack. Even in a cyberpunk distopia there’s a guy living in a trashcan with their head-plugs pulled out.

    Hermits are a thing.

    As for actively doing something to make the world more lawless and primitive, a guess an evil plant-magic user in a fantasy world.

    Or a hokey super villain in a Marvel-like setting.

    You can make anything work, it’s pretend.

    I am thinking more about the philosophy itself not being completely horrific. If it is pretty easy to cure diseases with nature magic, things like needing modern technology to not die of many illnesses wouldn't be as much of a problem.

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    Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    The Robin Hood I am specifically thinking of, for the record, is the Howard Pyle version, because there has never been a good Robin Hood movie

    DIS

    A

    GREE

    Robin Hood: Men In Tights has already been mentioned in this thread, sir.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzfo7pmGsHg

    You sure about that?

    Yes. It's not the movie's fault if you don't get it.

    That scene in particular was poking fun at the propensity of 90's movies to insert a particularly stupid scene where someone would perform a shitty rap, because rap music was so very cool and movie studio execs had absolutely no idea what the fuck was going on.

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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I want to commission someone to do some DnD art for my current group but I have no idea where to start looking for this kinda thing.

    Perhaps start your search here?

    there is also r/brushforhire if you are not opposed to reddit

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Whether a film's jokes work for a person not immersed in the particular time period when the film was made should be considered an important part of how well a film has aged.

    I would say those old animated shorts that are filled with references to old pop culture almost nobody alive will get without looking them up haven't aged well, for example. It isn't the fault of the films. Some things are just extremely of their time and not in a "everybody was racist back then" sort of way and that is fine.

    Not every comedy film can be nothing but dick jokes, fart jokes, ass jokes, boob jokes, and other jokes that always remain current and easily understood.

    Couscous on
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    MeldingMelding Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    \
    Melding wrote: »
    chaotic good doesn't care about rules when they are rules that don't do good. following laws that protect people? not a problem for CG. giving your land lord rent money because "it's the law"? not as good, get fucked legalized robber baron.

    if you cheerfully follow rules that are just that is, or at least leans toward, neutral good or even lawful good

    law/chaos is intended to be a completely separate axis from good/evil.

    there are lots of reasons to be chaotic, from ideological commitment to anarchy to just like, being kind of a contrarian who doesn't like being told what to do, even if it's a reasonable thing like "eat your vegetables"

    that doesn't mean a chaotic good person needs to go around bucking THE SYSTEM at every turn - alignment should never be a straitjacket - but it can absolutely color their outlook even in a just society, making them impatient with bureaucracy (even well-intentioned bureaucracy) and all those little rules that exist to smooth the progress of life between great numbers of people but don't have much of an intrinsically moral component, like laws about noise and ittering

    i'm not saying they're happy about the rules, just an understanding of "yeah we don't set buildings on fire because there's people in them" is a far more CG line of thought than someone jay walking because "the man" said not to. as long as the rules make sense to them, they wouldn't chafe under them. NG would passively break rules they don't like (internet piracy, smoking pot in places it is illegal, and so on) CG would actively break laws they don't like. like beating up a politician who is trying to legalize something horrible.

    Chaos and law are separate from good and evil but one colours the other. Chaotic evil would break laws they don't like or don't serve them. Chaotic Good would break laws they find bad or harmful to others. Same vein Lawful Good doesn't have to follow every single law ever, but they would defend the system that put them in place if they felt the system was over all just. they would be the ones trying to "change it from the inside", where as Chaotic good would rabble rouse and force change from outside because the system is dumb if they're letting people get hurt.

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    astrobstrdastrobstrd So full of mercy... Registered User regular
    See, I don't really dig alignment, but even in D&D I don't see it as a super restrictive absolute moral code, but more of a leaning or outlook.

    95% of folks I'd peg as chaotic good could easily live in a just or even morally neutral society, they would just grumble and bristle about it more than most. I only slot about 5-10% folks of any alignment as being particularly zealous about it. Those folks are your paladins and the like, the "no fun at parties" crowd.

    Selling the Scream Podcast: https://anchor.fm/jeremy-donaldson
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    I can see a chaotic good chafing at a formal rule that requires something they think is good rather than just something people do similar to how a person might think people shouldn't watch the 1986 comedy film Soul Man but would be against the film being banned. That doesn't mean the person would watch Soul Man to just spite the government, but they would still want to undo the rule and think it is a bad thing rather than neutral thing.

    Couscous on
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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    I think the alignment grid system should probably be given a lot less weight and be a lot less enshrined in people's ways of thinking about roleplaying than it is, it's ultimately very shallow while simultaneously being confusing and vague.

    I assume it was originally supposed to gamify "this character is acting as a villain and this character is acting as a hero," but then they got all up their own butt with lame 2 bit philosophy and it's been taken too literally and seriously ever since.

    BahamutZERO.gif
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