Watching CNN and they're saying that Melania used Chain migration visa to get her parents citizenship
I'd rather never see that term get used.
While I would agree, the right is currently using it as a fear tactic and rallying cry agains immigration. I'd rather it be used in this case to hopefully point out the hypocrisy of this administration.
Do not try to flip fascist rhetoric around them, they purposefully create language that cannot be turned against them because they're evil.
Agreed. Language helps form how one thinks. It is unhealthy to adopt any of the terms they have created as it makes their ideas more widespread and that is also why they attempt to subvert earlier parts of history - to give themselves more substance. Their cause is empty, hollow, and requires perverting the good to their purpose. Do not allow yourself to be used as a carrier for this political disease.
MrVyngaard on
"now I've got this mental image of caucuses as cafeteria tables in prison, and new congressmen having to beat someone up on inauguration day." - Raiden333
It's a better political play to hit this as an issue of corruption and unfairness anyway.
"Trump is trying to stop <insert upstanding example here> from bringing over their family member <rest of example>, but those rules don't apply to his family!"
The problem is not "chain migration", it's that there's one set of rules for the rich and powerful and one set of rules for everyone else.
It's a better political play to hit this as an issue of corruption and unfairness anyway.
"Trump is trying to stop <insert upstanding example here> from bringing over their family member <rest of example>, but those rules don't apply to his family!"
The problem is not "chain migration", it's that there's one set of rules for the rich and powerful and one set of rules for everyone else.
This is a good chain to pull on really, because the key to bringing down Trump is to find a way to actually make people question the class divisions. Once that starts for him, it won't stop.
It's a better political play to hit this as an issue of corruption and unfairness anyway.
"Trump is trying to stop <insert upstanding example here> from bringing over their family member <rest of example>, but those rules don't apply to his family!"
The problem is not "chain migration", it's that there's one set of rules for the rich and powerful and one set of rules for everyone else.
This is a good chain to pull on really, because the key to bringing down Trump is to find a way to actually make people question the class divisions. Once that starts for him, it won't stop.
IOKIYAR
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
But that only works if the supporters actually believe it is a class thing instead of a race thing where Melania's relatives aren't the evil brown people that really need to be stopped.
A small local affiliate of Fox News in Colorado is reporting that a US couple there are trying to stop the deportation of the four year old Peruvian girl they adopted.
This may be more about the circumstances involved than the next stage of deportations, but it’s another example of just how hostile the US has become to any sort of immigration.
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
A small local affiliate of Fox News in Colorado is reporting that a US couple there are trying to stop the deportation of the four year old Peruvian girl they adopted.
This may be more about the circumstances involved than the next stage of deportations, but it’s another example of just how hostile the US has become to any sort of immigration.
A letter explaining the decision should be available within the next few weeks.
So, after the kid is here illegally? Are you fucking kidding me?
Whether the GOP is more evil than satanists is not the topic of this thread.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
A small local affiliate of Fox News in Colorado is reporting that a US couple there are trying to stop the deportation of the four year old Peruvian girl they adopted.
This may be more about the circumstances involved than the next stage of deportations, but it’s another example of just how hostile the US has become to any sort of immigration.
A letter explaining the decision should be available within the next few weeks.
So, after the kid is here illegally? Are you fucking kidding me?
Burn. It. Down.
For a little closure on this issue, after seeing the story on the news, their Congressman got involved. He's apparently getting their case re-opened and skipping a bunch of the red tape and bullshit.
Great news for them, but apparently the only way to get reasonable treatment from immigration is almost a literal act of Congress.
These stories should be national news. It needs to be shouted in people's faces that "if only they followed the rules" means nothing if the government doesn't want to operate in good faith with these people.
These stories should be national news. It needs to be shouted in people's faces that "if only they followed the rules" means nothing if the government doesn't want to operate in good faith with these people.
You make it sound like every game of Calvinball ended in a fight...
This, this is really good. Unfortunately my room got really dusty and it was hard to read at the end. It's powerful, and I wish more people would not only read it, but heat what it has to say and have some empathy.
These stories should be national news. It needs to be shouted in people's faces that "if only they followed the rules" means nothing if the government doesn't want to operate in good faith with these people.
I think a lot of people are under the impression that immigration works as it did when their grandparents emigrated. You fill out some forms, and if they are under quota and your background check comes back ok, you can swiftly travel to the USA. By this view, anyone who sneaks in has something to hide - they are probably criminals or just so impatient they can’t deal with filling forms and waiting a few months.
In actual fact, it is virtually impossible for the average person to emigrate. Even one of those Nordic types Trump likes so much would need a job offer in a high-waged job and to prove no Americans wanted the job.
The only real options for the non-highly educated are refugee, family reunification, and green card lottery. All programs that Republicans seek to cut. One imagines that eventually there will be zero legal routes to immigration but dim witted Republican voters will still be saying “I have no problem with immigrants that come the legal way.”
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
"I have no problem with immigrants that come the legal way" has always been a smokescreen for racism
the people that say it are either fully aware that it's bullshit, hate immigrants, and think it makes them seem reasonable, or they have convinced themselves that they believe it
this is why nearly every one of these people are against DACA
"I have no problem with immigrants that come the legal way" has always been a smokescreen for racism
the people that say it are either fully aware that it's bullshit, hate immigrants, and think it makes them seem reasonable, or they have convinced themselves that they believe it
this is why nearly every one of these people are against DACA
At its core its either divorcing morality from law or, like you say, cover.
"I have no problem with immigrants that come the legal way" has always been a smokescreen for racism
the people that say it are either fully aware that it's bullshit, hate immigrants, and think it makes them seem reasonable, or they have convinced themselves that they believe it
this is why nearly every one of these people are against DACA
You're missing the strange kind of modern racism that is all over the place. You've no problem with X-group in general, and every member of X group you meet is probably given a fair chance and clearly isn't part of the XY group you keep hearing about. But it's common knowledge that there are issues with XY group, but also that you can't tar everyone with the same brush and many from X group are perfectly fine people - maybe even the majority of them.
Lot of racists are quite happy to treat people fairly in day to day life, but then support policies that have no basis in fact but fit with what they've been told. If immigration wasn't an issue, why is everyone always talking about it? It's why you always see people rallying around to support individuals who clearly have been wronged by a policy but still happy to support the policy in general. A problem has been presented, a solution has been offered - in the frame of the argument, the latter clearly follows the former as being a common sense solution. The people voting for it aren't doing it out of an individual animus against some specific group for the most part, they're acting against some troubling "Other" that doesn't fit with anything they've met (why generally the most anti-immigration areas are the ones least impacted by it).
I don't think these people would think of themselves as being actively white supremacist or even agree on many of those policies if you presented them without any packaging, as awful as the "but I have black friends" meme is - there is a kernel of truth there, the divide is really people they know and the ones they don't, and the ones they don't get subdivided into scarier subsets (Gangbangers, ISIS, terrorists! etc), but they know that the people they know are part of that.
Issue is that they've not fact-checked the initial claims that they hear everyday and are constantly repeated. Or have and had them confirmed - they've only met nice Mexicans, but to them it's been proven that immigration from Mexico is a real problem. But as soon as you challenge a simple narrative, it's very hard to them convince them that not only were they wrong and acted badly, it's also really complicated and you've not got an explanation they can follow to shed light on why everything is getting worse ("it's not!" you yell, but between global warming and rising crime/falling jobs due to immigration always being in the news, good luck on getting that through to the average person).
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Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
That summary makes it sound like they didn't find evidence of restraint chairs and head [spit] bags. They did.
A state review into the treatment of immigrant teens held at a Virginia detention center confirmed the facility uses restraint techniques that can include strapping children to chairs and placing mesh bags over their heads.
Investigators concluded the current treatment of detainees at the Shenandoah Valley Juvenile Center did not meet the state’s legal threshold of abuse or neglect, according to a copy of the findings issued Monday by the Virginia Department of Juvenile Justice and obtained by The Associated Press.
But those are apparently fine as long as you don't document any abuses involving them.
While some teens cited in the lawsuit reported being left in the restraint chair overnight or isolated in their cells for days at a time, the investigators said the documents they reviewed showed no record of that. According to the facility’s records, there was only one documented example of a child kept locked in isolation for 23 consecutive hours.
Cool investigation guys.
"We need to see all your records of crimes. Oh? None at all? Weird, ok thanks."
This is literally we didnt leave a paper trail therefore it didn't happen? That is sickening, and the headline should reflect that as most people are only goin to read the headline and think everything is fine.
Things are most defiantly not fucking fine.
+18
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
This is literally we didnt leave a paper trail therefore it didn't happen? That is sickening, and the headline should reflect that as most people are only goin to read the headline and think everything is fine.
Things are most defiantly not fucking fine.
They didn't take notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy..?
This is literally we didnt leave a paper trail therefore it didn't happen? That is sickening, and the headline should reflect that as most people are only goin to read the headline and think everything is fine.
Things are most defiantly not fucking fine.
They didn't take notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy..?
You say that like it’s obvious but the Mueller thread is right over there so...
one documented example of a child kept locked in isolation for 23 consecutive hours.
that's abuse you fucks
Just for comparison, in Iraq we limited isolation to six hours for literal terrorists barring extreme situations ie a guy murdered another detainee. And that was under Bush’s policies.
That summary makes it sound like they didn't find evidence of restraint chairs and head [spit] bags. They did.
A state review into the treatment of immigrant teens held at a Virginia detention center confirmed the facility uses restraint techniques that can include strapping children to chairs and placing mesh bags over their heads.
Investigators concluded the current treatment of detainees at the Shenandoah Valley Juvenile Center did not meet the state’s legal threshold of abuse or neglect, according to a copy of the findings issued Monday by the Virginia Department of Juvenile Justice and obtained by The Associated Press.
But those are apparently fine as long as you don't document any abuses involving them.
While some teens cited in the lawsuit reported being left in the restraint chair overnight or isolated in their cells for days at a time, the investigators said the documents they reviewed showed no record of that. According to the facility’s records, there was only one documented example of a child kept locked in isolation for 23 consecutive hours.
Cool investigation guys.
"We need to see all your records of crimes. Oh? None at all? Weird, ok thanks."
Wait so their argument is they have torture devices, and that those techniques are used, but it’s fine cause we didn’t leave them in there for hours at a time or overnight? That totally sound like they used it, but just not for long periods of a time.
Which still begs the argument of why you have them to begin with. What purpose does a restraint chair with a bag over the head serve?
It just reads to me like “Well yes we have a torture rack, but only use it some of the time, and no one is left in over night, so it’s fine”
That summary makes it sound like they didn't find evidence of restraint chairs and head [spit] bags. They did.
A state review into the treatment of immigrant teens held at a Virginia detention center confirmed the facility uses restraint techniques that can include strapping children to chairs and placing mesh bags over their heads.
Investigators concluded the current treatment of detainees at the Shenandoah Valley Juvenile Center did not meet the state’s legal threshold of abuse or neglect, according to a copy of the findings issued Monday by the Virginia Department of Juvenile Justice and obtained by The Associated Press.
But those are apparently fine as long as you don't document any abuses involving them.
While some teens cited in the lawsuit reported being left in the restraint chair overnight or isolated in their cells for days at a time, the investigators said the documents they reviewed showed no record of that. According to the facility’s records, there was only one documented example of a child kept locked in isolation for 23 consecutive hours.
Cool investigation guys.
"We need to see all your records of crimes. Oh? None at all? Weird, ok thanks."
Wait so their argument is they have torture devices, and that those techniques are used, but it’s fine cause we didn’t leave them in there for hours at a time or overnight? That totally sound like they used it, but just not for long periods of a time.
Which still begs the argument of why you have them to begin with. What purpose does a restraint chair with a bag over the head serve?
It just reads to me like “Well yes we have a torture rack, but only use it some of the time, and no one is left in over night, so it’s fine”
The bag is just to prevent inmates charges from spitting in the guard's caretaker's face.
All torture devices are operated IAW company policy and statutory abuse intake limits unless otherwise documented.
The current line on the frothy right is that this proves liberals are nutty conspiracy theorists who are hallucinating all the problems & can now safely be ignored. "It's fine!" is definitely going to be the playbook going towards.
That summary makes it sound like they didn't find evidence of restraint chairs and head [spit] bags. They did.
A state review into the treatment of immigrant teens held at a Virginia detention center confirmed the facility uses restraint techniques that can include strapping children to chairs and placing mesh bags over their heads.
Investigators concluded the current treatment of detainees at the Shenandoah Valley Juvenile Center did not meet the state’s legal threshold of abuse or neglect, according to a copy of the findings issued Monday by the Virginia Department of Juvenile Justice and obtained by The Associated Press.
But those are apparently fine as long as you don't document any abuses involving them.
While some teens cited in the lawsuit reported being left in the restraint chair overnight or isolated in their cells for days at a time, the investigators said the documents they reviewed showed no record of that. According to the facility’s records, there was only one documented example of a child kept locked in isolation for 23 consecutive hours.
Cool investigation guys.
"We need to see all your records of crimes. Oh? None at all? Weird, ok thanks."
Wait so their argument is they have torture devices, and that those techniques are used, but it’s fine cause we didn’t leave them in there for hours at a time or overnight? That totally sound like they used it, but just not for long periods of a time.
Which still begs the argument of why you have them to begin with. What purpose does a restraint chair with a bag over the head serve?
It just reads to me like “Well yes we have a torture rack, but only use it some of the time, and no one is left in over night, so it’s fine”
Even having the damn torture devices is a form of torture! If I'm running a prison, and my walls are covered with thumbscrews and iron maidens then I'm torturing the people there even if I never use one.
That summary makes it sound like they didn't find evidence of restraint chairs and head [spit] bags. They did.
A state review into the treatment of immigrant teens held at a Virginia detention center confirmed the facility uses restraint techniques that can include strapping children to chairs and placing mesh bags over their heads.
Investigators concluded the current treatment of detainees at the Shenandoah Valley Juvenile Center did not meet the state’s legal threshold of abuse or neglect, according to a copy of the findings issued Monday by the Virginia Department of Juvenile Justice and obtained by The Associated Press.
But those are apparently fine as long as you don't document any abuses involving them.
While some teens cited in the lawsuit reported being left in the restraint chair overnight or isolated in their cells for days at a time, the investigators said the documents they reviewed showed no record of that. According to the facility’s records, there was only one documented example of a child kept locked in isolation for 23 consecutive hours.
Cool investigation guys.
"We need to see all your records of crimes. Oh? None at all? Weird, ok thanks."
Wait so their argument is they have torture devices, and that those techniques are used, but it’s fine cause we didn’t leave them in there for hours at a time or overnight? That totally sound like they used it, but just not for long periods of a time.
Which still begs the argument of why you have them to begin with. What purpose does a restraint chair with a bag over the head serve?
It just reads to me like “Well yes we have a torture rack, but only use it some of the time, and no one is left in over night, so it’s fine”
Even having the damn torture devices is a form of torture! If I'm running a prison, and my walls are covered with thumbscrews and iron maidens then I'm torturing the people there even if I never use one.
Sorry yeah that was what I was arguing. That their defense is that we didn’t torture them for very long is even justifiable to them at all is infuriating.
That summary makes it sound like they didn't find evidence of restraint chairs and head [spit] bags. They did.
A state review into the treatment of immigrant teens held at a Virginia detention center confirmed the facility uses restraint techniques that can include strapping children to chairs and placing mesh bags over their heads.
Investigators concluded the current treatment of detainees at the Shenandoah Valley Juvenile Center did not meet the state’s legal threshold of abuse or neglect, according to a copy of the findings issued Monday by the Virginia Department of Juvenile Justice and obtained by The Associated Press.
But those are apparently fine as long as you don't document any abuses involving them.
While some teens cited in the lawsuit reported being left in the restraint chair overnight or isolated in their cells for days at a time, the investigators said the documents they reviewed showed no record of that. According to the facility’s records, there was only one documented example of a child kept locked in isolation for 23 consecutive hours.
Cool investigation guys.
"We need to see all your records of crimes. Oh? None at all? Weird, ok thanks."
Wait so their argument is they have torture devices, and that those techniques are used, but it’s fine cause we didn’t leave them in there for hours at a time or overnight? That totally sound like they used it, but just not for long periods of a time.
Which still begs the argument of why you have them to begin with. What purpose does a restraint chair with a bag over the head serve?
It just reads to me like “Well yes we have a torture rack, but only use it some of the time, and no one is left in over night, so it’s fine”
Even having the damn torture devices is a form of torture! If I'm running a prison, and my walls are covered with thumbscrews and iron maidens then I'm torturing the people there even if I never use one.
Sorry yeah that was what I was arguing. That their defense is that we didn’t torture them for very long is even justifiable to them at all is infuriating.
All against the backdrop of you know, kidnapping children from their parents for the express and deliberate purpose of group punishment to discourage migration.
Group punishment being the important element: because it's been demonstrated there's no action the people they do this to can actually take which will reliably return their children even if they leave.
Posts
I'd rather never see that term get used.
It's a gross term.
But it's the one the Right is using, so in this case it seems appropriate.
While I would agree, the right is currently using it as a fear tactic and rallying cry agains immigration. I'd rather it be used in this case to hopefully point out the hypocrisy of this administration.
Also, their sense of shame does not extend at all in the direction of hypocrisy
Agreed. Language helps form how one thinks. It is unhealthy to adopt any of the terms they have created as it makes their ideas more widespread and that is also why they attempt to subvert earlier parts of history - to give themselves more substance. Their cause is empty, hollow, and requires perverting the good to their purpose. Do not allow yourself to be used as a carrier for this political disease.
"Trump is trying to stop <insert upstanding example here> from bringing over their family member <rest of example>, but those rules don't apply to his family!"
The problem is not "chain migration", it's that there's one set of rules for the rich and powerful and one set of rules for everyone else.
This is a good chain to pull on really, because the key to bringing down Trump is to find a way to actually make people question the class divisions. Once that starts for him, it won't stop.
IOKIYAR
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
This may be more about the circumstances involved than the next stage of deportations, but it’s another example of just how hostile the US has become to any sort of immigration.
So, after the kid is here illegally? Are you fucking kidding me?
Burn. It. Down.
The Satanic Temple has been pretty categorically against corporal punishment, I kind of doubt they'd be ok with child separation.
Eh, they are a variety of pagan, not really what their name suggests. Not really into evil.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/amp/story/2018/08/13/stephen-miller-is-an-immigration-hypocrite-i-know-because-im-his-uncle-219351?__twitter_impression=true
For a little closure on this issue, after seeing the story on the news, their Congressman got involved. He's apparently getting their case re-opened and skipping a bunch of the red tape and bullshit.
Great news for them, but apparently the only way to get reasonable treatment from immigration is almost a literal act of Congress.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
You make it sound like every game of Calvinball ended in a fight...
This, this is really good. Unfortunately my room got really dusty and it was hard to read at the end. It's powerful, and I wish more people would not only read it, but heat what it has to say and have some empathy.
Now to go clean thus dust put if my eyes.
I think a lot of people are under the impression that immigration works as it did when their grandparents emigrated. You fill out some forms, and if they are under quota and your background check comes back ok, you can swiftly travel to the USA. By this view, anyone who sneaks in has something to hide - they are probably criminals or just so impatient they can’t deal with filling forms and waiting a few months.
In actual fact, it is virtually impossible for the average person to emigrate. Even one of those Nordic types Trump likes so much would need a job offer in a high-waged job and to prove no Americans wanted the job.
The only real options for the non-highly educated are refugee, family reunification, and green card lottery. All programs that Republicans seek to cut. One imagines that eventually there will be zero legal routes to immigration but dim witted Republican voters will still be saying “I have no problem with immigrants that come the legal way.”
the people that say it are either fully aware that it's bullshit, hate immigrants, and think it makes them seem reasonable, or they have convinced themselves that they believe it
this is why nearly every one of these people are against DACA
At its core its either divorcing morality from law or, like you say, cover.
Abhorrent either way.
You're missing the strange kind of modern racism that is all over the place. You've no problem with X-group in general, and every member of X group you meet is probably given a fair chance and clearly isn't part of the XY group you keep hearing about. But it's common knowledge that there are issues with XY group, but also that you can't tar everyone with the same brush and many from X group are perfectly fine people - maybe even the majority of them.
Lot of racists are quite happy to treat people fairly in day to day life, but then support policies that have no basis in fact but fit with what they've been told. If immigration wasn't an issue, why is everyone always talking about it? It's why you always see people rallying around to support individuals who clearly have been wronged by a policy but still happy to support the policy in general. A problem has been presented, a solution has been offered - in the frame of the argument, the latter clearly follows the former as being a common sense solution. The people voting for it aren't doing it out of an individual animus against some specific group for the most part, they're acting against some troubling "Other" that doesn't fit with anything they've met (why generally the most anti-immigration areas are the ones least impacted by it).
I don't think these people would think of themselves as being actively white supremacist or even agree on many of those policies if you presented them without any packaging, as awful as the "but I have black friends" meme is - there is a kernel of truth there, the divide is really people they know and the ones they don't, and the ones they don't get subdivided into scarier subsets (Gangbangers, ISIS, terrorists! etc), but they know that the people they know are part of that.
Issue is that they've not fact-checked the initial claims that they hear everyday and are constantly repeated. Or have and had them confirmed - they've only met nice Mexicans, but to them it's been proven that immigration from Mexico is a real problem. But as soon as you challenge a simple narrative, it's very hard to them convince them that not only were they wrong and acted badly, it's also really complicated and you've not got an explanation they can follow to shed light on why everything is getting worse ("it's not!" you yell, but between global warming and rising crime/falling jobs due to immigration always being in the news, good luck on getting that through to the average person).
The associated press is press that is associated
That summary makes it sound like they didn't find evidence of restraint chairs and head [spit] bags. They did.
But those are apparently fine as long as you don't document any abuses involving them.
Cool investigation guys.
"We need to see all your records of crimes. Oh? None at all? Weird, ok thanks."
that's abuse you fucks
Things are most defiantly not fucking fine.
They didn't take notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy..?
You say that like it’s obvious but the Mueller thread is right over there so...
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Just for comparison, in Iraq we limited isolation to six hours for literal terrorists barring extreme situations ie a guy murdered another detainee. And that was under Bush’s policies.
Wait so their argument is they have torture devices, and that those techniques are used, but it’s fine cause we didn’t leave them in there for hours at a time or overnight? That totally sound like they used it, but just not for long periods of a time.
Which still begs the argument of why you have them to begin with. What purpose does a restraint chair with a bag over the head serve?
It just reads to me like “Well yes we have a torture rack, but only use it some of the time, and no one is left in over night, so it’s fine”
All torture devices are operated IAW company policy and statutory abuse intake limits unless otherwise documented.
It's fine!
Even having the damn torture devices is a form of torture! If I'm running a prison, and my walls are covered with thumbscrews and iron maidens then I'm torturing the people there even if I never use one.
Cause if not, we don’t care.
I actually can’t believe the investigation for reals boils down to “pics or it didn’t happen”.
Sorry yeah that was what I was arguing. That their defense is that we didn’t torture them for very long is even justifiable to them at all is infuriating.
All against the backdrop of you know, kidnapping children from their parents for the express and deliberate purpose of group punishment to discourage migration.
Group punishment being the important element: because it's been demonstrated there's no action the people they do this to can actually take which will reliably return their children even if they leave.