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Mods know too much about the [Conspiracy Theories] thread

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Posts

  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Vice did a report on the original conspiracy theory poster boy, David Icke. Fascinating stuff. I didn't know he was a tv presenter, it's tragic - from the footage it looks like he had a mental breakdown or something then went deeper and deeper into batshit territory while becoming a famous writer about lizard people/Illuminati.



    You know what gets me with "revelations" like this? That they don't seem to be collecting evidence to show the world or anyone to recruit (having such evidence would go a long way to getting anyone rational on side). Nor is he raising an army to protect humanity through force from these supposed threats, like a tv series like V did. Instead he's...doing lectures? Living in a nice house from the money from his books?

    Effectively the unifying theory of the most 'severe' conspiracies like this is that we are already doomed, that opposition is impossible due to the sheer power of those you oppose, and that too many of the people simply cannot be 'woken'. All you can do is tell 'the wise' about it, so that they may accept their inevitable end.

    They all think the evidence they already have is incontrovertible, and that the only reason the 'powers that be' let them live is that direct action of that nature is the only thing that those they oppose won't do (because the only way they could be defeated would be if everyone in the world suddenly decided they were real and threw off their chains at once, which won't happen, because people are sheep). As such, they have their lives made difficult by the 'powers that be', but are not killed.

    By creating a narrative in which true resistance is impossible for a society, and all that matters is convincing certain wise people so that they can enjoy 'the truth' before the end, you create a narrative where giving a few lectures and bringing in some book profits are perfectly justifiable. Armies and evidence and like, trying to get your hands on the body of a lizard person, are all worthless because you cannot win. With most of these theories the best you could achieve would be accelerating the lizard peoples plans for a global holocaust, so best to keep it civil etc.

    This futility, the infinate power of those who oppose you is important to conspiracy theorists. Since the true reason why they are conspiracy theorists is usually some kind of grand disappointment in their own life which they are seeking something to blame for. By making their foes infinate in power, their failure to overcome them doesn't say anything about them being weak. Any opposition to a foe of infinate strength is an act of bravery and selflessness, and so, because they are the enemies of the powers that be they are (despite their failure) brave, competent and selfless. The foe must remain implacable and invincible, because if they could be defeated, then their failure to do so calls their own strength into question.

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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Shorty wrote: »
    This guy does a fairly deep dive on TimeCube and lays it out well

    Also new Conspiracy Thread means I gotta post da bes debunking video



    I love this video and apparently he took the original down for some reason, I tried to find it a couple months ago

    Did he take it down, or was it taken down?

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Vice did a report on the original conspiracy theory poster boy, David Icke. Fascinating stuff. I didn't know he was a tv presenter, it's tragic - from the footage it looks like he had a mental breakdown or something then went deeper and deeper into batshit territory while becoming a famous writer about lizard people/Illuminati.



    You know what gets me with "revelations" like this? That they don't seem to be collecting evidence to show the world or anyone to recruit (having such evidence would go a long way to getting anyone rational on side). Nor is he raising an army to protect humanity through force from these supposed threats, like a tv series like V did. Instead he's...doing lectures? Living in a nice house from the money from his books?

    Effectively the unifying theory of the most 'severe' conspiracies like this is that we are already doomed, that opposition is impossible due to the sheer power of those you oppose, and that too many of the people simply cannot be 'woken'. All you can do is tell 'the wise' about it, so that they may accept their inevitable end.

    They all think the evidence they already have is incontrovertible, and that the only reason the 'powers that be' let them live is that direct action of that nature is the only thing that those they oppose won't do (because the only way they could be defeated would be if everyone in the world suddenly decided they were real and threw off their chains at once, which won't happen, because people are sheep). As such, they have their lives made difficult by the 'powers that be', but are not killed.

    By creating a narrative in which true resistance is impossible for a society, and all that matters is convincing certain wise people so that they can enjoy 'the truth' before the end, you create a narrative where giving a few lectures and bringing in some book profits are perfectly justifiable. Armies and evidence and like, trying to get your hands on the body of a lizard person, are all worthless because you cannot win. With most of these theories the best you could achieve would be accelerating the lizard peoples plans for a global holocaust, so best to keep it civil etc.

    This futility, the infinate power of those who oppose you is important to conspiracy theorists. Since the true reason why they are conspiracy theorists is usually some kind of grand disappointment in their own life which they are seeking something to blame for. By making their foes infinate in power, their failure to overcome them doesn't say anything about them being weak. Any opposition to a foe of infinate strength is an act of bravery and selflessness, and so, because they are the enemies of the powers that be they are (despite their failure) brave, competent and selfless. The foe must remain implacable and invincible, because if they could be defeated, then their failure to do so calls their own strength into question.

    This also ties into why conspiracy theories are so endemic in totalitarian and failed societies. They are a defense mechanism against hopelessness that aren't directly threatening to the powers that be - real outrage channeled into bullshit directions.

    Which can backfire, of course. The driving factor in both the American revolution and the South's decision to start the Civil War was that the rebels were enmeshed in conspiracy theories and worked themselves into violence. They've been a driving force in American politics since the start.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    PLA wrote: »
    One of my fathers friends suddenly started talking about "a special location on the internet" where a source called Q-Anon reports things every now and then.

    Because of how the law works, when Trump said that the pizzagate-satanists are of national interest, the military were forced to begin a secret military investigation, that has been fighting occult billionaires ever since. Trump knew how to do this special move because he is a genius. And because it's a secret military investigation, they have to use secret military courts, where they get better results because there isn't any paperwork or standards of evidence.
    They'll eventually make the case solid enough to reach the so far untouchable FBI-mafia led by Mueller. They have to defeat the Clinton-family in the shadows, first.

    I actually really like this bit. Like accidentally invoking an implacable bureaucracy to fight the occult is a very Laundry Files sort of thing.

    You fight a creature of chaos with a creature of order.

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  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    PLA wrote: »
    One of my fathers friends suddenly started talking about "a special location on the internet" where a source called Q-Anon reports things every now and then.

    Because of how the law works, when Trump said that the pizzagate-satanists are of national interest, the military were forced to begin a secret military investigation, that has been fighting occult billionaires ever since. Trump knew how to do this special move because he is a genius. And because it's a secret military investigation, they have to use secret military courts, where they get better results because there isn't any paperwork or standards of evidence.
    They'll eventually make the case solid enough to reach the so far untouchable FBI-mafia led by Mueller. They have to defeat the Clinton-family in the shadows, first.

    I actually really like this bit. Like accidentally invoking an implacable bureaucracy to fight the occult is a very Laundry Files sort of thing.

    You fight a creature of chaos with a creature of order.

    Fight fire with fire is the way to do it!

  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    When it comes to false flags
    I went to lunch at work on day and to KFC where a man near the soda machine went on and on about them and how fascists were taking over and other crazy stuff.
    I found out about there was a lot more shooting so far this year than I thought because of him and a lot of people crying wolf over false flag ops. Giving really insane reasons why they happened

    I mean

    The level he was talking about was out there like them marching in the streets how the police are all in for it and so on

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    Brainleech wrote: »
    When it comes to false flags
    I went to lunch at work on day and to KFC where a man near the soda machine went on and on about them and how fascists were taking over and other crazy stuff.
    I found out about there was a lot more shooting so far this year than I thought because of him and a lot of people crying wolf over false flag ops. Giving really insane reasons why they happened

    I mean

    The level he was talking about was out there like them marching in the streets how the police are all in for it and so on
    Brainleech wrote: »
    When it comes to false flags
    I went to lunch at work on day and to KFC where a man near the soda machine went on and on about them and how fascists were taking over and other crazy stuff.
    I found out about there was a lot more shooting so far this year than I thought because of him and a lot of people crying wolf over false flag ops. Giving really insane reasons why they happened

    I mean

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    He's reuploaded a copy of the moon landing video and he's posted this video explaining some of the reasons behind his taking down of the video.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    He's reuploaded a copy of the moon landing video and he's posted this video explaining some of the reasons behind his taking down of the video.


    Yeah, I got to the point where he equates belief in conspiracy theories to mental illness, and was done at that point. That is an incredibly insulting equation that should not be made. (Are there mentally ill people who believe in conspiracy theories because of their illness? Of course. But believing in conspiracy theories isn't mental illness in of itself.) There's also the dodging of the fact that many conspiracy theories are held in service of dangerous and outright evil motives (case in point - Holocaust denial is pushed in order to relegitimize National Socialism as a legitimate political movement.)

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    I believe (though this is just my own speculating) that when he says he is crazy in that video he means that he has a mental illness of some kind.

    If that's the case, I can see why hordes of commentators on his moon landing video calling conspiracy theorists "crazy" and "insane" as a way of dismissing or belittling them would rub him the wrong way.

    Hell, even if he is neurotypical (though his video I posted argues that we are all atypical in some way), it's not really great discourse to conflate believing in something odd and mental illness.

    I too wondered about harmful conspiracy theories and what he'd say about those. But the moon landing? That's about as harmless as conspiracy theories get. And the discourse around that was just as heated as that around false flag conspiracy theories and the like.

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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    I believe (though this is just my own speculating) that when he says he is crazy in that video he means that he has a mental illness of some kind.

    If that's the case, I can see why hordes of commentators on his moon landing video calling conspiracy theorists "crazy" and "insane" as a way of dismissing or belittling them would rub him the wrong way.

    Hell, even if he is neurotypical (though his video I posted argues that we are all atypical in some way), it's not really great discourse to conflate believing in something odd and mental illness.

    I too wondered about harmful conspiracy theories and what he'd say about those. But the moon landing? That's about as harmless as conspiracy theories get. And the discourse around that was just as heated as that around false flag conspiracy theories and the like.
    I think he just meant he's a weirdo in his own way. Toward the end he correlates irrational conclusions / inaccurate observations to general creativity.

    I think he just speaking to fundamental imperfections in human cognition.

    Edit: If I had to choose a point to take issue with, it would be that "the internet wasn't always this way."

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Once you sink deep enough into conspiracy theories that you start rejecting blatantly real things that undermine your beliefs, I'd say that it's arguable that you've developed a mental illness.

  • 21stCentury21stCentury Bismuth OS Fully Operational 2019-07-12 - KeystoneRegistered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    Once you sink deep enough into conspiracy theories that you start rejecting blatantly real things that undermine your beliefs, I'd say that it's arguable that you've developed a mental illness.

    I don't think that's how mental illness works.

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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    Sovereign citizens are terrifying to me because of the intersection of how ridiculous their beliefs are and how disproportionately violent they are compared to other conspiracy theorists. They overlap with violent white nationalist militia types and so have caused a lot of deaths, especially among law enforcement.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    This guy does a fairly deep dive on TimeCube and lays it out well

    Also new Conspiracy Thread means I gotta post da bes debunking video



    I love this video and apparently he took the original down for some reason, I tried to find it a couple months ago

    I enjoy the video but he's a bit of a kook himself if you read between the lines.

  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    Once you sink deep enough into conspiracy theories that you start rejecting blatantly real things that undermine your beliefs, I'd say that it's arguable that you've developed a mental illness.

    I don't think that's how mental illness works.

    Mental illness isn't one thing and largely determined by the symptoms rather than something physiological because we're just not there when it comes to biomarkers for mental illness. Delusion and Psychosis are real things, but far from the be all and end all of mental disease, or even perhaps the most common symptoms.

    Whilst it's nice to think that mental illness like depression is just a physical thing you suffer from where you body ends up deal with some absence of some essential compound - I think it's naive to think that you can't have purely mental diseases given how much we know about the placebo and nocebo effect. As the old paranoia cliche goes, somewhat paraphrased - "just because it's in your head, doesn't mean you're just making it up".

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    Once you sink deep enough into conspiracy theories that you start rejecting blatantly real things that undermine your beliefs, I'd say that it's arguable that you've developed a mental illness.

    I don't think that's how mental illness works.

    Mental illness isn't one thing and largely determined by the symptoms rather than something physiological because we're just not there when it comes to biomarkers for mental illness. Delusion and Psychosis are real things, but far from the be all and end all of mental disease, or even perhaps the most common symptoms.

    Whilst it's nice to think that mental illness like depression is just a physical thing you suffer from where you body ends up deal with some absence of some essential compound - I think it's naive to think that you can't have purely mental diseases given how much we know about the placebo and nocebo effect. As the old paranoia cliche goes, somewhat paraphrased - "just because it's in your head, doesn't mean you're just making it up".

    There are definitely mental illness that are entirely developed. Look at PTSD, for example.

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  • RiusRius Registered User regular
    This is still my favorite conspiracy theory rebuttal video

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  • LoisLaneLoisLane Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    jothki wrote: »
    Once you sink deep enough into conspiracy theories that you start rejecting blatantly real things that undermine your beliefs, I'd say that it's arguable that you've developed a mental illness.

    Nah. It can mean many things besides that.
    jothki wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    Once you sink deep enough into conspiracy theories that you start rejecting blatantly real things that undermine your beliefs, I'd say that it's arguable that you've developed a mental illness.

    I don't think that's how mental illness works.

    Mental illness isn't one thing and largely determined by the symptoms rather than something physiological because we're just not there when it comes to biomarkers for mental illness. Delusion and Psychosis are real things, but far from the be all and end all of mental disease, or even perhaps the most common symptoms.

    Whilst it's nice to think that mental illness like depression is just a physical thing you suffer from where you body ends up deal with some absence of some essential compound - I think it's naive to think that you can't have purely mental diseases given how much we know about the placebo and nocebo effect. As the old paranoia cliche goes, somewhat paraphrased - "just because it's in your head, doesn't mean you're just making it up".

    There are definitely mental illness that are entirely developed. Look at PTSD, for example.
    Look. Many conspiracy theories are crafted specifically to support a narrative or attain power through deception. Such as Holocaust denial as someone mentioned above. If it means ignoring certain realities then so be it. This does not mean they have mental illness. Ignoring unpleasant facts might as well be a defining part of being human. From the mom who wouldn’t believe her little shnuckums wouldn’t ever be a football star to the willful blind eye turned to the oppression of minorities, events are only as important and accepted as we determine them to be.

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    I think the biggest problem with comparing conspiracy theorists to the mentally ill is that it pretends that normal, sane people don't or can't be conspiracy theorists. Much the same as the misbelief that only stupid people join cults. In reality normal, sane, educated people join cults and believe in wacky conspiracy theories too.

    It's a dangerous misbelief to have, as it blinds us to ourselves falling into the same trap. After all, we're smart, we'd never fall for that nonsense, right?

    Gvzbgul on
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Perhaps believing too easily in conspiracy theories *is* some sort of mild mental illness. Everyone believes a few things that aren't true. But some conspiracy theorists obsess over dozens of conspiracy theories.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Perhaps believing too easily in conspiracy theories *is* some sort of mild mental illness. Everyone believes a few things that aren't true. But some conspiracy theorists obsess over dozens of conspiracy theories.

    A lot of people don't realize it's dozens of conspiracy theories, because they're all organized into a single unifying theory, and no scrutiny is given to any particular part, only a belief in the overarching narrative.

    See: People believing dozens of conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton. It all falls under "Hillary Clinton is a bad person." They believe Hillary Clinton is a bad person, therefore all of these things that prove she is a bad person are real.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    LoisLane wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    Once you sink deep enough into conspiracy theories that you start rejecting blatantly real things that undermine your beliefs, I'd say that it's arguable that you've developed a mental illness.

    Nah. It can mean many things besides that.
    jothki wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    Once you sink deep enough into conspiracy theories that you start rejecting blatantly real things that undermine your beliefs, I'd say that it's arguable that you've developed a mental illness.

    I don't think that's how mental illness works.

    Mental illness isn't one thing and largely determined by the symptoms rather than something physiological because we're just not there when it comes to biomarkers for mental illness. Delusion and Psychosis are real things, but far from the be all and end all of mental disease, or even perhaps the most common symptoms.

    Whilst it's nice to think that mental illness like depression is just a physical thing you suffer from where you body ends up deal with some absence of some essential compound - I think it's naive to think that you can't have purely mental diseases given how much we know about the placebo and nocebo effect. As the old paranoia cliche goes, somewhat paraphrased - "just because it's in your head, doesn't mean you're just making it up".

    There are definitely mental illness that are entirely developed. Look at PTSD, for example.
    Look. Many conspiracy theories are crafted specifically to support a narrative or attain power through deception. Such as Holocaust denial as someone mentioned above. If it means ignoring certain realities then so be it. This does not mean they have mental illness. Ignoring unpleasant facts might as well be a defining part of being human. From the mom who wouldn’t believe her little shnuckums wouldn’t ever be a football star to the willful blind eye turned to the oppression of minorities, events are only as important and accepted as we determine them to be.

    Not all conspiracy theories are the same, and there is a spectrum about how deep someone is or they know deep down it's bullshit but it's a defence mechanism RE: Flat Earthers. However, I wouldn't entirely rule out mental illness as a factor in some cases. Especially with people who are full on delusional in how the world works and when they tie in everything together into a super conspiracy theory or people who think god is talking to them in their head. It's also troubling when people believe in one then add another and another, escalating their beliefs where they see almost anything as a threat or out to get them. I knew a person like this, their blog consisted nearly entirely of conspiracy theories verging on paranoia that kept on adding and combining, as they tried to make sense of their life and regain control. It was so sad to see and feel powerless about helping them.

    Is it wrong to think every conspiracy theory is mental ill? Sure, but I don't think it's wise to ignore that entirely from the equation.

    How people become conspiracy theorists can be complex and come from multi angles.

    Mental illnesses like schizotypy may also be a factor, though not all people who have this are psychotic or delusional. This is still debated among the scientific community, of course.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypy

    CelestialBadger
  • Caulk Bite 6Caulk Bite 6 One of the multitude of Dans infesting this place Registered User regular
    Rius wrote: »
    This is still my favorite conspiracy theory rebuttal video


    I still love this video (outside of a particular word at the start). Especially at the end “Your argument is invalid, get over it. Find a job.”

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    (Actually their argument is valid, it's their premises that are flawed. Their argument is valid, but unsound. "Valid" means that it logically follows. Disproving a premise of an argument doesn't make the argument invalid.

    If A then B
    A
    Therefore:
    B

    You can have something silly like:

    If the moon is made of cheese then we can get free food from the moon.
    The moon is made of cheese.
    Therefore:
    We can get free food from the moon.

    Now, you can disprove A. But the argument itself makes sense.)

  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    I think the biggest problem with comparing conspiracy theorists to the mentally ill is that it pretends that normal, sane people don't or can't be conspiracy theorists. Much the same as the misbelief that only stupid people join cults. In reality normal, sane, educated people join cults and believe in wacky conspiracy theories too.

    It's a dangerous misbelief to have, as it blinds us to ourselves falling into the same trap. After all, we're smart, we'd never fall for that nonsense, right?

    In reality, normal, educated people can have mental issues, but since mental illnesses are stigmatized we like to pretend that they don't exist.

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  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Conspiracy theorists are lot like certain types of religious people.
    They "Know" that <insert thing here> is "True", therefore anything that contradicts <insert thing here>, must be False, and anyone claiming otherwise is at best wrong, and more likely lying.
    Main difference is that conspiracy theorists tend to have more easily disprovable claims, and their beliefs are usually less popular (and lack the shield of politeness rreligion has).

    Nyysjan on
  • FryFry Registered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    Conspiracy theorists are lot like certain types of religious people.
    They "Know" that <insert thing here> is "True", therefore anything that contradicts <insert thing here>, must be False, and anyone claiming otherwise is at best wrong, and more likely lying.
    Main difference is that conspiracy theorists tend to have more easily disprovable claims, and their beliefs are usually less popular (and lack the shield of politeness rreligion has).

    As I was reading through the last page, I was thinking to myself of posting about how, depending on how exactly you define "conspiracy theory", most mainstream religions could fall under that heading. And it doesn't seem correct to say that anyone who believes in a religion has a mental illness, therefore equating conspiracy theory to mental illness is incorrect.

    Then I got to this post which seems to be reading my thoughts before I've even had them. Who are you and how did you reach into my brain from the past? I better go make a tinfoil hat...

  • Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Vice did a report on the original conspiracy theory poster boy, David Icke. Fascinating stuff. I didn't know he was a tv presenter, it's tragic - from the footage it looks like he had a mental breakdown or something then went deeper and deeper into batshit territory while becoming a famous writer about lizard people/Illuminati.



    You know what gets me with "revelations" like this? That they don't seem to be collecting evidence to show the world or anyone to recruit (having such evidence would go a long way to getting anyone rational on side). Nor is he raising an army to protect humanity through force from these supposed threats, like a tv series like V did. Instead he's...doing lectures? Living in a nice house from the money from his books?

    David Icke is a special case because he comes up a lot during investigations of the actually extant House of Lords pedophilia ring. Partly because victims went to him, partly because for a while, the only person saying anything about aristocratic pedophilia was the dude who believes the world is run by satanic shapeshifting reptoids.

    Then there's the David Icke/Alex Jones split, where Icke did his best to out Jones as a cynical manipulator.

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  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    This is a weird, niche one:
    https://gizmodo.com/facebook-forced-to-block-20-000-posts-about-snack-food-1827892990
    PepsiCo really doesn’t want anyone talking shit about its corn puffs online. There is a rumor that Kurkure, a corn puff product developed by the company in India, is made of plastic. The conspiracy theory naturally thrived online, where people posted mocking videos and posts questioning whether the snack contained plastic. In response, PepsiCo obtained an interim order from the Delhi High Court to block all references to this conspiracy theory online in the country, MediaNama reports.

    This is probably more of a satirical "conspiracy" than an actual crazy belief. I feel like suppressing the conspiracy only makes people believe in it more, though. "You see! They're all in on it! Facebook, PepsiCo, The Illuminati! What is the dark secret that THEY don't want you to know about?"

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    Elvenshae
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    I believe it, now. That's totally plastic.

    Hahnsoo1ElvenshaeCaulk Bite 6
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    It's probably easier to get that kind of thing legally suppressed when it's easily falsifiable slander that's directly threatening economic harm.

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    Now they just need Peter Jurasik...

    ShadowfireCaulk Bite 6
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Now they just need Peter Jurasik...

    The crest is more Cartagia than Mollari.

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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    https://www.vox.com/2018/7/18/17586516/jeff-sharlet-maria-butrina-national-prayer-breakfast-the-family

    So hands up if you had no idea this organisation existed? I mean I guessed at some informal understanding, but the reframing of Jesus as a strongman, ministering to the wolves, etc, was completely new to me. It all feels straight out of a fictional thriller.

    Prohass on
    CelestialBadger
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    If you call yourself "the Family", you're probably crimes.

    Caulk Bite 6CelestialBadgerSleepkimeMoridin889Man in the MistsHonkknitdanLoisLaneBloodySlothMr RayLord_Asmodeus
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    PLA wrote: »
    If you call yourself "the Family", you're probably crimes.

    Or an MLM.

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    Elvenshae
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Calling it a “prayer breakfast” seems pretty chilling. All churches have prayer breakfasts. They are a nice opportunity to fit Christian fellowship into a busy schedule. This “national” prayer fellowship seems like a lobbying society, with precious little praying going on.

    Captain InertiaDisruptedCapitalistKayne Red RobeMan in the MistsLoisLaneCaulk Bite 6Mr RayLord_AsmodeusGiggles_Funsworth
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    This group has been around a long time and includes people from lots of different political persuasions.

    It seems more to me “place for lobbyists and politicians to do corruption” and less “Jesus cult”

    GvzbgulKayne Red RobeGnome-InterruptusMan in the MistsCaulk Bite 6
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