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Mods know too much about the [Conspiracy Theories] thread

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    I’m more than sure Epstein was under intense pressure from all the people he sold children to. I don’t know if they just wanted him dead or to just not talk or anything in between, but I imagine they are happy that he killed himself and I also imagine the pressure they put on him didn’t help anything. It doesn’t have to be a conspiracy for a multitude of child molesters to individually gang up on Epstein and for that pressure, on top of everything else, be enough to push him over the edge.

    But what if they all phoned each other and agreed to hang him out to dry? Then it's a conspiracy. Just not a very florid one.

    Like you said, Epstein already participated in one genuine conspiracy. And if we were transported back to the year 2000 would we be pooh-poohing the speculation that Bill Clinton's rich buddy was actually at the head of an international pedophile conspiracy involving powerful people all over the world? That's crazy, right?

    TryCatcher
  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    I do find it curious that the term ‘conspiracy theory’ all but functionally exists strictly in a fictional sense. I can’t recall the last time any news organization used the word conspiracy about something that was proved to be happening.

    Also I wonder if the shorthand of ‘conspiracy theory’ has inadvertently tainted the public concept of what a theory is.

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited November 7
    I do find it curious that the term ‘conspiracy theory’ all but functionally exists strictly in a fictional sense. I can’t recall the last time any news organization used the word conspiracy about something that was proved to be happening.

    Also I wonder if the shorthand of ‘conspiracy theory’ has inadvertently tainted the public concept of what a theory is.

    It was also a "conspiracy theory" that news organizations work to bury and/or discredit news that are damaging to their rich owners. And yet.

    Honestly, would you people would be surprised if it turns out that the Clintons and/or Buckingham Palace did had a hand on Epstein's death? I wouldn't.

    TryCatcher on
  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    I do find it curious that the term ‘conspiracy theory’ all but functionally exists strictly in a fictional sense. I can’t recall the last time any news organization used the word conspiracy about something that was proved to be happening.

    Also I wonder if the shorthand of ‘conspiracy theory’ has inadvertently tainted the public concept of what a theory is.

    It was also a "conspiracy theory" that news organizations work to bury and/or discredit news that are damaging to their rich owners. And yet.

    Honestly, would you people would be surprised if it turns out that the Clintons and/or Buckingham Palace did had a hand on Epstein's death? I wouldn't.

    Yes.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    edited November 7
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Honestly, would you people would be surprised if it turns out that the Clintons and/or Buckingham Palace did had a hand on Epstein's death? I wouldn't.

    I would be surprised. They don't customarily assassinate people no matter what the Republicans (of both sorts) say.

    However, Epstein had a lot of rich and dangerous people in his social circle, many of whom we have probably never even heard of.

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Honestly, would you people would be surprised if it turns out that the Clintons and/or Buckingham Palace did had a hand on Epstein's death? I wouldn't.

    I would be surprised. They don't customarily assassinate people no matter what the Republicans (of both sorts) say.

    However, Epstein had a lot of rich and dangerous people in his social circle, many of whom we have probably never even heard of.

    I'm not excluding the rest of the pedo club as suspects, sorry if I wasn't clear.

  • LikeaBoshLikeaBosh Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Honestly, would you people would be surprised if it turns out that the Clintons and/or Buckingham Palace did had a hand on Epstein's death? I wouldn't.

    I would be surprised. They don't customarily assassinate people no matter what the Republicans (of both sorts) say.

    However, Epstein had a lot of rich and dangerous people in his social circle, many of whom we have probably never even heard of.

    I'm not excluding the rest of the pedo club as suspects, sorry if I wasn't clear.

    Yeah. It seems far more likely if he WAS killed it would be by people who are CURRENTLY in power, and have a lot more to lose.

    Extreaminatus
  • SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    We have a whole thread for this, but to me the most suspicious thing about the Epstein case isn't his death (though that's v. susp.) it's that all his accused co-conspirators are still walking free. You would think that getting wealthy international child sex traffickers into custody would be something of an emergency, and something that law enforcement would be chomping at the bit to do. But, uh, that's not what I'm seeing.

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Smurph wrote: »
    We have a whole thread for this, but to me the most suspicious thing about the Epstein case isn't his death (though that's v. susp.) it's that all his accused co-conspirators are still walking free. You would think that getting wealthy international child sex traffickers into custody would be something of an emergency, and something that law enforcement would be chomping at the bit to do. But, uh, that's not what I'm seeing.

    Wealth and privilege + kompromat. Is that simple.

  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    Smurph wrote: »
    We have a whole thread for this, but to me the most suspicious thing about the Epstein case isn't his death (though that's v. susp.) it's that all his accused co-conspirators are still walking free. You would think that getting wealthy international child sex traffickers into custody would be something of an emergency, and something that law enforcement would be chomping at the bit to do. But, uh, that's not what I'm seeing.

    You need a rock-solid case before arresting someone who can pay a legal firm with a budget bigger than yours. That takes time.

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  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard Registered User regular
    Personally, I like the Epstein was a spy theory:
    https://imgur.com/gallery/HGe25z9

    ThroSmurph
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Smurph wrote: »
    We have a whole thread for this, but to me the most suspicious thing about the Epstein case isn't his death (though that's v. susp.) it's that all his accused co-conspirators are still walking free. You would think that getting wealthy international child sex traffickers into custody would be something of an emergency, and something that law enforcement would be chomping at the bit to do. But, uh, that's not what I'm seeing.

    They seem to have quietly dropped the whole thing. I find it suspicious, too.

    It's not just the authorities but also the media. It's a really great story, lots of shock and sex, so it should be a priority for news outlets because it's sure to sell papers/generate clicks. But... nothing. They can't even spare some paparazzi to track down Epstein's glamorous sidekick Maxwell.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    I’m more than sure Epstein was under intense pressure from all the people he sold children to. I don’t know if they just wanted him dead or to just not talk or anything in between, but I imagine they are happy that he killed himself and I also imagine the pressure they put on him didn’t help anything. It doesn’t have to be a conspiracy for a multitude of child molesters to individually gang up on Epstein and for that pressure, on top of everything else, be enough to push him over the edge.

    But what if they all phoned each other and agreed to hang him out to dry? Then it's a conspiracy. Just not a very florid one.

    Like you said, Epstein already participated in one genuine conspiracy. And if we were transported back to the year 2000 would we be pooh-poohing the speculation that Bill Clinton's rich buddy was actually at the head of an international pedophile conspiracy involving powerful people all over the world? That's crazy, right?

    That would involve them coordinating with each other, which would involve sharing information with the implication being they all raped children and need to cover it up, which I highly doubt they would do especially with no assurances the others wouldn’t collect blackmail material, just like Epstein was doing.

    If there was any pressure on Epstein, more likely it would be each of them acting independently of the others.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    I’m more than sure Epstein was under intense pressure from all the people he sold children to. I don’t know if they just wanted him dead or to just not talk or anything in between, but I imagine they are happy that he killed himself and I also imagine the pressure they put on him didn’t help anything. It doesn’t have to be a conspiracy for a multitude of child molesters to individually gang up on Epstein and for that pressure, on top of everything else, be enough to push him over the edge.

    But what if they all phoned each other and agreed to hang him out to dry? Then it's a conspiracy. Just not a very florid one.

    Like you said, Epstein already participated in one genuine conspiracy. And if we were transported back to the year 2000 would we be pooh-poohing the speculation that Bill Clinton's rich buddy was actually at the head of an international pedophile conspiracy involving powerful people all over the world? That's crazy, right?

    That would involve them coordinating with each other, which would involve sharing information with the implication being they all raped children and need to cover it up, which I highly doubt they would do especially with no assurances the others wouldn’t collect blackmail material, just like Epstein was doing.

    That didn't seem to concern them when they were raping teenage girls together. And possibly they were all weaponizing their blackmail material together

    Rich Pedo 1 to Rich Pedo 2: "Remember July 2014 on the island? I do. I've got photos of you with that girl. Now, call your friend the New York prisons guy and tell him not to worry about that suicide watch thing on Epstein. I hear he's in a pretty bad state."
    Rich Pedo 2: "OK. And remember if those pics come out, I've got recordings of this phonecall."

    Elvenshae
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    I’m more than sure Epstein was under intense pressure from all the people he sold children to. I don’t know if they just wanted him dead or to just not talk or anything in between, but I imagine they are happy that he killed himself and I also imagine the pressure they put on him didn’t help anything. It doesn’t have to be a conspiracy for a multitude of child molesters to individually gang up on Epstein and for that pressure, on top of everything else, be enough to push him over the edge.

    But what if they all phoned each other and agreed to hang him out to dry? Then it's a conspiracy. Just not a very florid one.

    Like you said, Epstein already participated in one genuine conspiracy. And if we were transported back to the year 2000 would we be pooh-poohing the speculation that Bill Clinton's rich buddy was actually at the head of an international pedophile conspiracy involving powerful people all over the world? That's crazy, right?

    That would involve them coordinating with each other, which would involve sharing information with the implication being they all raped children and need to cover it up, which I highly doubt they would do especially with no assurances the others wouldn’t collect blackmail material, just like Epstein was doing.

    That didn't seem to concern them when they were raping teenage girls together. And possibly they were all weaponizing their blackmail material together

    Rich Pedo 1 to Rich Pedo 2: "Remember July 2014 on the island? I do. I've got photos of you with that girl. Now, call your friend the New York prisons guy and tell him not to worry about that suicide watch thing on Epstein. I hear he's in a pretty bad state."
    Rich Pedo 2: "OK. And remember if those pics come out, I've got recordings of this phonecall."

    I mean, maybe?

    We still come back to the problem of lack of evidence. Plenty of motivation for sure, but no proof of a conspiracy to murder or drive Epstein to suicide.

    So while the conspiracy to initially cover the first time he was caught is very real with plenty of evidence, anything past that is speculation. Perhaps he was murdered by the guards. Or a few of the child molesters conspired together to drive him to commit suicide. Or they drove him to kill himself independently without coordinating it. Or perhaps no one did anything and he killed himself without any outside help or influence aside from knowing that he won’t get away with it this time.

    The original point I was driving at is that people are assuming just because there was one conspiracy proven true, then the other must be true too. Which is a false assumption. The first one has evidence and the other has nothing.

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    One of the out there conspiracy theories is getting a movie!


    I personally hate this conspiracy theory, or at least what spawned it, because no-one I've known in South Africa thought that he died in prison. (not saying that they don't exist, it's just that this is not something you hear of in South Africa and everybody I mentioned it to was confused)

    So it just comes off as Americans being ignorant of other countries and then acting like they're right anyway.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    I mean, that's the meme in a nutshell. "Am I wrong about certain facts? No, it's reality that's wrong."

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited November 7
    It's like the "Berenstein/Berenstain Bears" thing. "Do I correctly remember the unusual spelling* of the author of a book my parents read me as a toddler or have I slipped into the Mirror Universe?" Long Live the Terran Empire is not the logical answer.

    *-At least in the US, -stein is quite common, while Berenstain is the only -stain surname I can remember seeing off hand.

    Hevach on
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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    The Berenstein Bears one really messed with my head :P

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    I enjoy Berenstain/Berenstein and the Sinbad Shazaam movie, because they are a reminder of the truly spectacular creepiness of memory, which we don't notice most of the time.

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  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    It's like the "Berenstein/Berenstain Bears" thing. "Do I correctly remember the unusual spelling* of the author of a book my parents read me as a toddler or have I slipped into the Mirror Universe?" Long Live the Terran Empire is not the logical answer.

    *-At least in the US, -stein is quite common, while Berenstain is the only -stain surname I can remember seeing off hand.

    Those examples are fine, and a fun example of how what you're expecting to see can be what you see with a little memory is a funny thing.

    It's the event that is this phenomenon's namesake that irks me.

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  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    "epstein was murdered" is a conspiracy theory but also, conspiracies are real

    i'm broadly more inclined to think he was a spy than anything else. i get that it sounds like made up bullshit but also, spies are actually real, it's not like the cia literally does nothing

    i would be very surprised if either the clintons or buckingham palace was involved at all tho

  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    It's like the "Berenstein/Berenstain Bears" thing. "Do I correctly remember the unusual spelling* of the author of a book my parents read me as a toddler or have I slipped into the Mirror Universe?" Long Live the Terran Empire is not the logical answer.

    *-At least in the US, -stein is quite common, while Berenstain is the only -stain surname I can remember seeing off hand.

    Those examples are fine, and a fun example of how what you're expecting to see can be what you see with a little memory is a funny thing.

    It's the event that is this phenomenon's namesake that irks me.

    Honestly, as an American I can’t say I’ve ever met anyone who thought he died in prison either, just the occasional idiot who would confuse him with Morgan Freeman.

    The “Mandela Effect” name always sounded to me like a thing that happened to one guy that he just assumed applied universally, but it doesn’t.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Everyone misremembers something vaguely from their childhood.

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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    On a different note, 8chan (now rebranded 8kun and hosted by Russian randomware services) has returned, so all the Q conspiracy theorists are going even more insane than usual right now. Just a heads up/warning to everyone.

    Mild Confusionwebguy20
  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    when they brought the x-files back darin morgan wrote an episode about the mandela effect. it was broadly pretty good

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Evander wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    It's like the "Berenstein/Berenstain Bears" thing. "Do I correctly remember the unusual spelling* of the author of a book my parents read me as a toddler or have I slipped into the Mirror Universe?" Long Live the Terran Empire is not the logical answer.

    *-At least in the US, -stein is quite common, while Berenstain is the only -stain surname I can remember seeing off hand.

    Those examples are fine, and a fun example of how what you're expecting to see can be what you see with a little memory is a funny thing.

    It's the event that is this phenomenon's namesake that irks me.

    Honestly, as an American I can’t say I’ve ever met anyone who thought he died in prison either, just the occasional idiot who would confuse him with Morgan Freeman.

    The “Mandela Effect” name always sounded to me like a thing that happened to one guy that he just assumed applied universally, but it doesn’t.

    The Nelson Mandela version of the "effect" seems to me to have become so widespread by prompting. Most of the US and Western Europe doesn't really know much about South Africa, especially post-Apartheid. Nelson Mandela is a known name, but not a known story. You start with a true fact that many people will know (he was in jail), then a, "Remember how..." anecdote they probably don't know about and it's easy to get people to accept that truth, especially if you can connect some personal emotion to it, because people think that's more convincing.

    A similar experiment would be to go around South Africa talking about FDR, start with something well known like his disability, and finish with speculation on how scary it must have been for the President to be assassinated in the middle of the war with the Nazis. Circle back a few weeks later and see how many have assimilated that as their knowledge of FDR and how they react to the information that he died of a stroke.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Everyone misremembers something vaguely from their childhood.

    Bullshit.

    I perfectly remember Lionel from the Ninja Turtles fighting Cobra Commander on the regular, thank you very much!

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Lionel from the Ninja Turtles

    A mall near me has trick or treating events each Halloween, and includes "celebrity" guests. Last year was the Teenaged Hero Karate Turtles, Michael (orange mask), Ralph (blue), Lionel (green), and Donald (yellow).

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  • NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Lionel from the Ninja Turtles

    A mall near me has trick or treating events each Halloween, and includes "celebrity" guests. Last year was the Teenaged Hero Karate Turtles, Michael (orange mask), Ralph (blue), Lionel (green), and Donald (yellow).

    We laugh, but ask any British person of the right age and they will tell you that they’re called the Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles, not ninja turtles, and that Raph’s weapons are walkie talkies.

    Of course, this is because of weird cencership rules rather than falling between realities.

    Or is that what they want you to think?

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Didn't Michaelangelo also have a different weapon in that version?

  • EvanderEvander Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    The Nelson Mandela version of the "effect" seems to me to have become so widespread by prompting. Most of the US and Western Europe doesn't really know much about South Africa, especially post-Apartheid. Nelson Mandela is a known name, but not a known story. You start with a true fact that many people will know (he was in jail), then a, "Remember how..." anecdote they probably don't know about and it's easy to get people to accept that truth, especially if you can connect some personal emotion to it, because people think that's more convincing.

    A similar experiment would be to go around South Africa talking about FDR, start with something well known like his disability, and finish with speculation on how scary it must have been for the President to be assassinated in the middle of the war with the Nazis. Circle back a few weeks later and see how many have assimilated that as their knowledge of FDR and how they react to the information that he died of a stroke.

    That makes sense, but also makes it that much more annoying that the whole “suite” of things are named after that one, because others (like “Berenstain”) more likely come from self suggestion, not from some one coming and explaining to you that the effect exists. There are plenty of folks out there, I’m sure, who believe that the books are spelled “Berenstein” and don’t realize they are wrong or that it is at all a “thing”, but I seriously doubt the number of people who know about Nelson Mandela and believe he died in prison without having ever heard of the “Mandela Effect”.

  • FryFry Registered User regular
    Norgoth wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Lionel from the Ninja Turtles

    A mall near me has trick or treating events each Halloween, and includes "celebrity" guests. Last year was the Teenaged Hero Karate Turtles, Michael (orange mask), Ralph (blue), Lionel (green), and Donald (yellow).

    We laugh, but ask any British person of the right age and they will tell you that they’re called the Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles, not ninja turtles, and that Raph’s weapons are walkie talkies.

    Of course, this is because of weird cencership rules rather than falling between realities.

    Or is that what they want you to think?

    whaaaaaaaat?

    Also, why would they censor those, and not, say, the swords?

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  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    edited November 8
    Because swords are commonly recognized for their noble history and quite prevalent in the UK, while the deadly nunchaku are an insidious and poorly understood foreign murder tool.

    Tldr: racist moral panic nonsense.

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  • Mr BubblesMr Bubbles David Koresh Superstar Registered User regular
    edited November 8
    Fry wrote: »
    Norgoth wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Lionel from the Ninja Turtles

    A mall near me has trick or treating events each Halloween, and includes "celebrity" guests. Last year was the Teenaged Hero Karate Turtles, Michael (orange mask), Ralph (blue), Lionel (green), and Donald (yellow).

    We laugh, but ask any British person of the right age and they will tell you that they’re called the Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles, not ninja turtles, and that Raph’s weapons are walkie talkies.

    Of course, this is because of weird cencership rules rather than falling between realities.

    Or is that what they want you to think?

    whaaaaaaaat?

    Also, why would they censor those, and not, say, the swords?

    Mostly because of 'Enter the Dragon' and one particular person in our version of the MPAA, The British Board of Film Classifacation or 'BBFC'.

    There's an article about it here:
    https://tedium.co/2019/08/20/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-nunchucks-censorship/amp

    And here's what the edited intro looked llike, complete with song!

    Mr Bubbles on
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  • LaOsLaOs Registered User regular
    Funny how all the turtles have their regular weapons in the intro scenes.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited November 8
    Is that why Mikey stopped using his chucks and switched to a grappling hook?

    I have been wondering about that since I was a kid!

    What a thing, that an off joke ends up uncovering an actual conspiracy from my childhood that really happened with the goal of undermining a fucking children’s show because of racists under the veil of “moral guardianship”.

    Goddamn assholes, ruining all the good things.

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    This is a bit of a tangent, but the best thing about traditional karate weapons like nunchaku and kama is that the origin of these weapons is that "lower classes" weren't allowed to own swords and had to make up weaponry from farm implements, which is why nunchaku look like they could be used in a horse's bridle, and kama look like something you could use to cut grass.

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  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    Kama ARE you used to cut grass, and implements a lot like nunchucks are used for manual grain threshing.

    Being handed an actual kama, available at any home goods store, and told to use it to cut weeds on the school grounds was one of the more amusing parts about teaching in Japan.

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