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Mods know too much about the [Conspiracy Theories] thread

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    American politicians assert what citizens in other countries think, but do nothing to actually confirm or deny those assertions, and certainly don't care to actually make them true if they're not. "We will be greeted as liberators," for example.

    Russia actively keeps its finger on that pulse and tries to push the needle when they don't like what they find.

    Russia has been on the forefront of shaping internet narratives about what Russia is up to for as long as that's been a thing that existed. Since at least as far back as the Russo-Georgian War the minute the story drops they have people hammering the comments sections and reddit and such pushing the Russian state narrative to muddy the waters.

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    WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The restaurant on the corner of my block serves Poutine and i am thanking you wisemantobes!

    Steam! Battlenet:Wisemantobes#1508
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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    American politicians assert what citizens in other countries think, but do nothing to actually confirm or deny those assertions, and certainly don't care to actually make them true if they're not. "We will be greeted as liberators," for example.

    Russia actively keeps its finger on that pulse and tries to push the needle when they don't like what they find.

    Russia has been on the forefront of shaping internet narratives about what Russia is up to for as long as that's been a thing that existed. Since at least as far back as the Russo-Georgian War the minute the story drops they have people hammering the comments sections and reddit and such pushing the Russian state narrative to muddy the waters.

    I've seen India getting into this lately as well.

    Their English language attempts are...not very good at all yet thankfully.

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    ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    edited January 2020
    Yeah, the Indian and (increasingly) Saudi attempts I've seen at whitewashing comment sections or Twitter threads have been ... not particularly subtle at all.

    Yes, Twitter user whose userpic is the distillation of a Standardized Stock Photo Karen, whose replies use an interesting number of Wahabbist English-transliteration conventions, and whose timeline was all Arabic posts prior to code-switching to English two days ago, I totally believe you're a typical Midwestern housewife tired of how uncivil the Khashoggi discourse has gotten. Totally.

    Zibblsnrt on
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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    American politicians assert what citizens in other countries think, but do nothing to actually confirm or deny those assertions, and certainly don't care to actually make them true if they're not. "We will be greeted as liberators," for example.

    Russia actively keeps its finger on that pulse and tries to push the needle when they don't like what they find.

    Russia has been on the forefront of shaping internet narratives about what Russia is up to for as long as that's been a thing that existed. Since at least as far back as the Russo-Georgian War the minute the story drops they have people hammering the comments sections and reddit and such pushing the Russian state narrative to muddy the waters.

    I've seen India getting into this lately as well.

    Their English language attempts are...not very good at all yet thankfully.

    Some people in China believe the coronavirus outbreak is a US bioweapon that specifically targets, "Chinese genes," and are calling on their government to create a counterstrain that targets, "American genes."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLp8CHeKQkI

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    furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    Do people actually think that or is that just Chinese propaganda designed to encourage Chinese people to think that?

    sig.gif Gamertag: KL Retribution
    PSN:Furlion
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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    It's difficult to be sure, but "every random disease is a bioweapon" is one of the most basic conspiracy theories, and Chinese conspiracy theorists don't blame everything on Jews.

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    furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    It's difficult to be sure, but "every random disease is a bioweapon" is one of the most basic conspiracy theories, and Chinese conspiracy theorists don't blame everything on Jews.

    Fair enough. Does every country have a minority that get blamed the way Jews do I wonder? I know that for an astonishing number of countries it is just the Jews, but surely some countries have others?

    sig.gif Gamertag: KL Retribution
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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited January 2020
    China blames a lot on Ugyhur and Hmong and a few others that I'm even less likely to spell correctly. State propaganda absolutely drives a lot of that, but much like Jews in Nazi Germany, the government waters the field and reaps the harvest - they didn't sew the seeds.

    The US seems to serve the purpose Israel does for western conspiracy theories as the default foreign provocateur, and our government is quiet enough about Chinese atrocities that they aren't equated to the internal threat the way Jews and Israel are in western conspiracy theories.

    I've always wondered if that means Chinese theories tend to split up more than western ones - the common thread of antisemitism means you can go seamlessly from flat earth clear to "Finland doesn't exist" as if they were a single conspiracy, which doesn't seem like it would work with Ugyhur and America.


    Edit: And for non-China examples: Roma get almost as much as Jews in a lot of Europe. Just a few months ago a thread here on this forum had somebody from (I think it was the UK?) trying to calmly explain how it's not racist, just nobody they'd met ever knew a Gypsy that wasn't a criminal and rapist and dirty layabout. Coptic Christians in Egypt and a few others. Aboriginals in Australia (another one I remember seeing somebody on this forum try to explain is totally not racist).

    Also plenty of local blame targets around enclaves, reservations, or immigrant communities. Michigan has a very interesting one - we've had a large Chaldean population for decades, and more recently had a large influx of Muslims. You'll occasionally hear people on the internet (or in Congress) claim that parts of Michigan like Dearborn are under Sharia Law - that particular one's actually got its roots in our Chaldean population reacting very negatively to the appearance of Muslim immigrants in their communities. 90% of white people didn't know the difference between Muslim and Chaldean (or hell, Sikh or Indian, which go back even farther in the state) and always thought Michigan had a lot of Muslims, and had been blaming non-existent Muslims for stuff for years, so they were happy enough to go along with it.

    Hevach on
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    Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    Oh, oh, OH! I know where this specific conspiracy theory came from!

    Its from the movie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Warrior, its about this badass special forces group of the PLA that don't do things by the book man! The lead character played by Wu Jing is leading it during a exercise when they are attacked by Scott Adkins character who is of course a former US NAVY SEAL working for a drug smuggler who's brother Wu Jing killed at the begining of the movie by not playing by the rules!

    Anyway this drug smuggler is also in the area because he has created a bioweapon that exclusively targets Chinese people(Han chinese I presume because Chinese can be many different ethnic groups, not that Beijing will accept that). Its up to the WOLF WARRIORS TO TAKE THEM DOWN!

    The movie is sort of famous because it was one of the highest grossing movies of the year without having a release outside of China and for being backed by the PLA with actual PLA millitary equipment being showcased in the movie. It was a Chinese equivalent of backed by the Pentagon thing going on with the script being approved by them like the US millitary does with US movies.

    Wu Jing is the biggest Film star in China due to this movie and its sequel. I think the sequel is on Netflix, but another of Wu Jings movies certainly is; The Wandering Earth.

    So there you have it. An idea formed from a movie backed by the Chinese Government to showcase the PLA as protectors of the homeland from the perfidious West.

    The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
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    Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    It's difficult to be sure, but "every random disease is a bioweapon" is one of the most basic conspiracy theories, and Chinese conspiracy theorists don't blame everything on Jews.

    Coronavirus is a Jewish directed energy weapon.

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    CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    It's difficult to be sure, but "every random disease is a bioweapon" is one of the most basic conspiracy theories, and Chinese conspiracy theorists don't blame everything on Jews.

    Coronavirus is a Jewish directed energy weapon.

    I read that some Chinese researchers think (with no real proof and based on, essentially, wild supposition despite it being deeply unlikely if not actually impossible) the virus jumped to humans from snakes.

    Australia is full of snakes.

    As we all know, the Australian fires are caused by directed energy weapons.

    Snakes are actually directed energy weapons. Probably created by the same people as all the "birds".

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
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    ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    It's difficult to be sure, but "every random disease is a bioweapon" is one of the most basic conspiracy theories, and Chinese conspiracy theorists don't blame everything on Jews.

    Coronavirus is a Jewish directed energy weapon.

    I read that some Chinese researchers think (with no real proof and based on, essentially, wild supposition despite it being deeply unlikely if not actually impossible) the virus jumped to humans from snakes.

    Australia is full of snakes.

    As we all know, the Australian fires are caused by directed energy weapons.

    Snakes are actually directed energy weapons. Probably created by the same people as all the "birds".

    also might be from bats. which are also in Australia. there's even Australians that run bat rescues and help nurse injured bats back to health.

    Australians are so despicable.

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    CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    Do Australian bats stand right-side-up when they sleep?

    Y'know. If there were Australian bats. If there were an Australia.

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    There is no Australia. I’m posting this from a beach in the Bahamas with cool water running over my feet as I sip a cocktail, not a hot bakery waiting for my lunch.

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited January 2020
    Hevach wrote: »
    It's difficult to be sure, but "every random disease is a bioweapon" is one of the most basic conspiracy theories, and Chinese conspiracy theorists don't blame everything on Jews.

    Coronavirus is a Jewish directed energy weapon.

    So Beerfest predicted this?
    1549768536234.png

    Ninja Snarl P on
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    EvgenyEvgeny Registered User regular
    Not sure if this counts as a conspiracy theory. Russian sources suggest that the Chinese response to the new virus is overblown, the intent being to advance certain groups in power at the expense of others.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited January 2020
    Evgeny wrote: »
    Not sure if this counts as a conspiracy theory. Russian sources suggest that the Chinese response to the new virus is overblown, the intent being to advance certain groups in power at the expense of others.

    You can take it either way. It does seem that a quarantine at the level they are implementing is extreme for a flulike illness without an extreme lethality (at least as reported so far) that has infected 1000 so far.

    Are the Chinese government reported numbers reliable and their response is just inappropriately severe to advance other agendas? Or is their response appropriate and the government is underreporting infections and casualties? Or are they just acting in an abundance of caution because they don’t want to be caught flatfooted if it turns out to be worse than it looks?

    Jealous Deva on
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    ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular
    edited January 2020
    Evgeny wrote: »
    Not sure if this counts as a conspiracy theory. Russian sources suggest that the Chinese response to the new virus is overblown, the intent being to advance certain groups in power at the expense of others.

    You can take it either way. It does seem that a quarantine at the level they are implementing is extreme for a flulike illness without an extreme lethality (at least as reported so far) that has infected 1000 so far.

    Are the Chinese government reported numbers reliable and their response is just inappropriately severe to advance other agendas? Or is their response appropriate and the government is underreporting infections and casualties? Or are they just acting in an abundance of caution because they don’t want to be caught flatfooted if it turns out to be worse than it looks?

    Or perhaps as it turns out eating bushmeat and bat soup is a really bad idea and China should start banning it

    Zavian on
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    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Lord knows the US has done enough shady and reprehensible covert shit in other countries that it's earned its place as the de facto subject of foreign conspiracies in other countries.

    Stabbity_Style.png
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    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Lord knows the US has done enough shady and reprehensible covert shit in other countries that it's earned its place as the de facto subject of foreign conspiracies in other countries.

    Remember that time we created a fake vaccination campaign to find Bin Laden?

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    GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    Lord knows the US has done enough shady and reprehensible covert shit in other countries that it's earned its place as the de facto subject of foreign conspiracies in other countries.

    Remember that time we created a fake vaccination campaign to find Bin Laden?

    Did they actually at least, you know, vaccinate people?

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Lord knows the US has done enough shady and reprehensible covert shit in other countries that it's earned its place as the de facto subject of foreign conspiracies in other countries.

    Remember that time we created a fake vaccination campaign to find Bin Laden?

    Did they actually at least, you know, vaccinate people?

    I've seen different claims on whether they were actually vaccinating or giving saline injections. Whichever they did they sparked a wave of violence against actual Red Cross workers and set back polio eradication in the region 5-10 years.

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    evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    Evgeny wrote: »
    Not sure if this counts as a conspiracy theory. Russian sources suggest that the Chinese response to the new virus is overblown, the intent being to advance certain groups in power at the expense of others.

    You can take it either way. It does seem that a quarantine at the level they are implementing is extreme for a flulike illness without an extreme lethality (at least as reported so far) that has infected 1000 so far.

    Are the Chinese government reported numbers reliable and their response is just inappropriately severe to advance other agendas? Or is their response appropriate and the government is underreporting infections and casualties? Or are they just acting in an abundance of caution because they don’t want to be caught flatfooted if it turns out to be worse than it looks?

    Or, Chinese authorities don't want headlines like "Chinese-originated disease killing Americans while Chinese officials do nothing", and it's best to do something even if it's an obvious over-reaction.

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    ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular

    On the subject of Coronavirus conspiracy theories: one interesting one going around is that it has something to do with the Chinese virus researcher who was kicked out of her lab in Canada last October.
    A Canadian government scientist at the National Microbiology Lab in Winnipeg made at least five trips to China in 2017-18, including one to train scientists and technicians at China's newly certified Level 4 lab, which does research with the most deadly pathogens, according to travel documents obtained by CBC News.

    Xiangguo Qiu — who was escorted out of the Winnipeg lab in July amid an RCMP investigation into what's being described by Public Health Agency of Canada as a possible "policy breach" — was invited to go to the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory of the Chinese Academy of Sciences twice a year for two years, for up to two weeks each time.

    You have a scientist who worked in Level 4 virus labs, who is connected to Wuhan and the level 4 lab there, and who has reason to something-something.

    Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    66aacb34-a7a7-11e9-8d5c-2d5b58977904_image_hires_024051.jpg?itok=XeqN4MkM&v=1563302456
    MV5BNGVmYjIxNDAtZjQwYi00MDA0LTg5MjUtMzI1MzEwZGVmODc0XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTY2NjY1OA@@._V1_.jpg
    Nah it couldn't have been her, she doesn't even have red hair

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    Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    Evgeny wrote: »
    Not sure if this counts as a conspiracy theory. Russian sources suggest that the Chinese response to the new virus is overblown, the intent being to advance certain groups in power at the expense of others.

    You can take it either way. It does seem that a quarantine at the level they are implementing is extreme for a flulike illness without an extreme lethality (at least as reported so far) that has infected 1000 so far.

    Are the Chinese government reported numbers reliable and their response is just inappropriately severe to advance other agendas? Or is their response appropriate and the government is underreporting infections and casualties? Or are they just acting in an abundance of caution because they don’t want to be caught flatfooted if it turns out to be worse than it looks?

    Also coming up on the biggest travel holiday on the continent making it something people would be much more likely to ignore if it inconveniences them. If this was happening in the U.S. how well would just a 'we encourage people to stay home,' advisory work, dropped on Christmas or Thanksgiving weekend?

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited January 2020
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    On the subject of Coronavirus conspiracy theories: one interesting one going around is that it has something to do with the Chinese virus researcher who was kicked out of her lab in Canada last October.
    A Canadian government scientist at the National Microbiology Lab in Winnipeg made at least five trips to China in 2017-18, including one to train scientists and technicians at China's newly certified Level 4 lab, which does research with the most deadly pathogens, according to travel documents obtained by CBC News.

    Xiangguo Qiu — who was escorted out of the Winnipeg lab in July amid an RCMP investigation into what's being described by Public Health Agency of Canada as a possible "policy breach" — was invited to go to the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory of the Chinese Academy of Sciences twice a year for two years, for up to two weeks each time.

    You have a scientist who worked in Level 4 virus labs, who is connected to Wuhan and the level 4 lab there, and who has reason to something-something.

    As a molecular biologist, what the fuck is "Level 4" lab? Do they mean a BSL-4 lab? Because the latter actually means something and the former is just a scary-sounding phrase. Level 4 apparently doesn't even mean anything in Canada, where it should be a "P4" lab. I really really hate lazy reporting, just use the correct phrasing and take the two damn sentences two explain the BSL acronym so people know the precautions involved in such labs.

    For those not in the know, a BSL-4 lab (I've never ever heard of a "level 4 lab") is a lab which works with infectious agents which are mostly deadly to humans with no known vaccines or treatments. If you get exposed and infected, you're probably fucked. This is the level of lab with the whole step-into-a-sealed-suit thing with a wholly self-contained respiration system, where no part of a human ever comes in contact with any surface of the BSL-4 environment. It would actually be really really hard to get anything out of a decent BSL-4 environment because the suits don't come out with you, don't have pockets anyway, you sure as fucking hell don't want to open the suit inside the lab, would probably set off an alarm if you did open the suit, and any transfer of material involves airlocks and decontamination. As a matter of course, little that enters a BSL-4 lab comes back out until the lab is shut down and everything inside treated to total decontamination (lots of bleach and heat).

    I know it's not Hollywood sexy to say it, but you really can't just walk in, grab a couple ominous-looking vials, and walk out.

    But none of that matters in the face of good conspiracy fodder like a Chinese visitor with access to a BSL-4 lab in Canada. Though one would think they would've infected, well, any place except China.

    Ninja Snarl P on
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    RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    A Level 4 lab is one that you need a Blue key card, a Red key card, and a Snake Talisman to get into

    Explosives will also work if you can infiltrate the roof vent in the southeast corridor, but it is not ideal

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
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    KetarKetar Come on upstairs we're having a partyRegistered User regular
    It stands for biosafety level 4 and you're shocked that someone shortened it to Level 4 rather than BSL-4?

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    It's also pretty hilarious to act like she and all her students weren't removed from the lab over concerns that have still not been made public and that the chinese government using chinese students for espionage is not a thing security agencies have been talking about for awhile.

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    VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    Also the coronavirus probably wouldn’t count as a BSL 4 pathogen, based on what we know so far?

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited January 2020
    VishNub wrote: »
    Also the coronavirus probably wouldn’t count as a BSL 4 pathogen, based on what we know so far?

    Flu like with low mortality and doesn't seem particularly virulent. However, the Chinese government has overreacted beyond any real reason, closing highways and quarantining a city long after the virus had spread through the whole of China except Tibet and Taiwan. There's pressure to close more internal borders like Honk Kong, and I read this morning that Taiwan was likely to close their borders to mainlanders.

    Hevach on
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    Also the coronavirus probably wouldn’t count as a BSL 4 pathogen, based on what we know so far?

    Flu like with low mortality and doesn't seem particularly virulent. However, the Chinese government has overreacted beyond any real reason, closing highways and quarantining a city long after the virus had spread through the whole of China except Tibet and Taiwan. There's pressure to close more internal borders like Honk Kong, and I read this morning that Taiwan was likely to close their borders to mainlanders.

    I mean, the flu isn't even BSL4 is it? That kills a ton of people every year.

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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Hard to really say if this is an "overreaction beyond real reason" yet

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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    No, BSL 4 is for things that you cannot risk any exposure or release. It would possibly qualify if we managed to eradicate it in the wild but when your researchers can get it from someone coughing while walking down the street anyway /shrug

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    MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    On the subject of Coronavirus conspiracy theories: one interesting one going around is that it has something to do with the Chinese virus researcher who was kicked out of her lab in Canada last October.
    A Canadian government scientist at the National Microbiology Lab in Winnipeg made at least five trips to China in 2017-18, including one to train scientists and technicians at China's newly certified Level 4 lab, which does research with the most deadly pathogens, according to travel documents obtained by CBC News.

    Xiangguo Qiu — who was escorted out of the Winnipeg lab in July amid an RCMP investigation into what's being described by Public Health Agency of Canada as a possible "policy breach" — was invited to go to the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory of the Chinese Academy of Sciences twice a year for two years, for up to two weeks each time.

    You have a scientist who worked in Level 4 virus labs, who is connected to Wuhan and the level 4 lab there, and who has reason to something-something.

    A less complicated conspiracy theory is just "Wuhan Biosafety Lab had an oopsy." There's historical precedent: The flu pandemic of 1977 was likely caused by an accidental Soviet release of a preserved flu strain, since it was a strain that hadn't been seen in twenty years that suddenly popped up again without any apparent mutation and only affecting young people who hadn't been exposed to the strain twenty years before.

    Incidentally, for the "China is massively overreacting for some reason" side, trying to cover up their own incompetence with overreaction would be one reason to do it.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited January 2020
    Here's an interesting one: astrology is big in China, and new year in the Chinese calendar is he year of the rat. The Chinese zodiac calendar repeats every 60 years. The year of the rat has become associated with ill omens, as the last three each began during an escalating crisis.

    1840: opium wars
    1900: Boxer rebellion
    1960: great famine
    2020: Coronavirus

    Hevach on
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    autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited January 2020
    Also:

    1720 The Great Plague of Marseille
    1820 The First Cholera Pandemic
    1920 The Spanish Flu
    2020 Coronavirus?

    It's a good time for numbers-based panics!

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    So really the issue seems to be years divisible by 20.

This discussion has been closed.