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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] Thanks For The Deal, I Hate It

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Posts

  • HerrCronHerrCron It that wickedly supports taxation Registered User regular
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    Considering Boris has been holding talks with Steve Bannon seems to me like Boris has just decided to drop any pretences and go full racist.

    He's probably involved in Bannon's Europewide right wing party The Movement or something or other.

    Fucking really? What was Norsefire just a little too on the nose?

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  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Someone official needs to point out that it's not the point he was trying to make but how he said it. To say that burkas are backwards & repressive is okay, to insult the women and their faith is not. It's the same difference as me saying "I think he's being a racist dumbass" instead of saying "I think he's going about this the wrong way".

    Not because Boris is going to stop being a horrible person, but just to stifle the narrative that "they won't let us speak up for liberal values".

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  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    I never bought this thing of Boris being a "liberal" conservative. Nor his supposed charisma. He's a charlatan whose only interest is the advancement of himself, and he always has been. I live in hope (but not expectation) that one day it will be accepted as fact that this emperor has no clothes.

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    I don't know that Boris has the capacity for personal opinions on the scope of racism. I think his animal cunning only concerned with conning morsels out of passersby with mimickry and stealth.

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  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Jazz wrote: »
    I never bought this thing of Boris being a "liberal" conservative. Nor his supposed charisma. He's a charlatan whose only interest is the advancement of himself, and he always has been. I live in hope (but not expectation) that one day it will be accepted as fact that this emperor has no clothes.

    Racists have always used Liberal values against minorities when they could get away with it.

    Liberalism bases freedom and rights on the ability to reason, so painting a group as uneducated or backwards is a license to strip that group's rights away. The mission to civilize, scientific racism/race realism, etc. have been completely discredited because their true intentions are clear now.

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  • fedaykin666fedaykin666 Registered User regular
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45068300

    If I may momentarily distract myself from the horrors of Brexit (though maybe not entirely unrelated in terms of anti-foreigner sentiment?), I'm kind of curious what you think about the Home Office's stance here.

    I do not really understand why we would want to insist on kicking out his working Dad and a very promising lad (albeit early days in his chess development ). What is the point of this? Let him keep paying taxes. Let his son try to win us some medals.

    At the same time, I am a chess master and also ignorant about immigration policies, so I accept my perspective is probably both skewed and uninformed. I just feel ashamed of almost everything this government does or says.

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    home office is under a lot of informal pressure to deport people, which means they come to a lot of stupid decisions. its extremely mad. there is no real defense of most of these decisions and almost all of them will seem potty because they are driven by a desire to get net migration down because government is terrified of seeming weak on immigration because it is perpetually afraid of getting outflanked on immigration by ukip or corbyn

    there is no deeper meaning

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Boris Johnson facing Tory investigation over burka comments
    Boris Johnson is facing an investigation into breaches of the Conservative Party code of conduct.

    The party has received dozens of complaints about the ex-foreign secretary's comments about Muslim women wearing burkas.

    The complaints will be looked at by an independent panel which could refer Mr Johnson to the party's board, which has the power to expel him.

    The party declined to comment on the details of the investigation.

    A Conservative Party spokesman said: "The code of conduct process is strictly confidential." A source close to Mr Johnson offered no comment.

    Critics have accused him of stoking Islamophobia to boost his Tory leadership ambitions but his supporters have said he was speaking up for "liberal values".
    Good old liberal values of insulting people who are different from us.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    The freedom to trample your freedoms.

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  • BogartBogart Because I hate you Registered User, Moderator mod
    May could have ignored it like she ignored all the stupid or racist stuff he did as Foreign Secretary, which would have been condoning it, or she could do this, which may trigger a leadership contest in which she faces Boris, who is pulling in support from the Tory base because casual racism is pretty appealing to them.

    Ain't it grand to have the leadership of the country decided by things like this? Has Boris been just racist enough to get the votes he needs, or has he been slightly too racist to win?

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    “Up to the job” > “is competent” jfc

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    edited August 2018


    this is a worthwhile thing to listen to. the first few minutes are broadly not very exciting - mostly fairly obvious stuff if youve been listening to brexit things - but there is an undercurrent of real sadness and frustration, coming from an anglophile pole who is genuinely worried by our leaving.

    also worth noting his comment that the eu would take us back immediately if we changed our mind

    surrealitycheck on
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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    I know it probably won't but I would love for this to backfire on Boris and get him punted out the party. I mean it was obviously an entriely cynical move from him as usual. I think he was fully aware the comments would stir controversy and that was the point. He's no longer in the cabinet, his star has fallen, Rees-Mogg is eating his lunch as the new go to swivel eyed brexiteer...

    He needed to get his name and his mug back in the news cycle or he may as well abandon his plans for the top job.

    It would be simply delicious for him to have miscalculated and end up out the Tory party.

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    i am pretty sure he has calculated this well enough. they know they cant get rid of him - see the polling data i posted on first page, hes most popular with membership - and his comments are just this side of formal racism to hit that sweet spot of the majority of the uk supporting him which, according to surveys, they seem to

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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    i am pretty sure he has calculated this well enough. they know they cant get rid of him - see the polling data i posted on first page, hes most popular with membership - and his comments are just this side of formal racism to hit that sweet spot of the majority of the uk supporting him which, according to surveys, they seem to

    I agree. I think refusing to apologise will play well with the sort of people who already like him and the investigation will be toothless.

    Frankly even if he did get booted out, I can see a nightmare scenario of him actually getting somewhere with a home grown populist party.

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    i am pretty sure he has calculated this well enough. they know they cant get rid of him - see the polling data i posted on first page, hes most popular with membership - and his comments are just this side of formal racism to hit that sweet spot of the majority of the uk supporting him which, according to surveys, they seem to

    I agree. I think refusing to apologise will play well with the sort of people who already like him and the investigation will be toothless.

    Frankly even if he did get booted out, I can see a nightmare scenario of him actually getting somewhere with a home grown populist party.

    Boris could take over UKIP.

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  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    HerrCron wrote: »
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    Considering Boris has been holding talks with Steve Bannon seems to me like Boris has just decided to drop any pretences and go full racist.

    He's probably involved in Bannon's Europewide right wing party The Movement or something or other.

    Fucking really? What was Norsefire just a little too on the nose?

    I'm not going to complain that they've called their dumb group something that's instantly going to be trolled with 'bowel' references.

    HerrCronH3KnucklesElldrentynic
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    i am pretty sure he has calculated this well enough. they know they cant get rid of him - see the polling data i posted on first page, hes most popular with membership - and his comments are just this side of formal racism to hit that sweet spot of the majority of the uk supporting him which, according to surveys, they seem to

    I agree. I think refusing to apologise will play well with the sort of people who already like him and the investigation will be toothless.

    Frankly even if he did get booted out, I can see a nightmare scenario of him actually getting somewhere with a home grown populist party.

    Boris could take over UKIP.

    In all seriousness, UKIP has too much stink on it even for Boris.

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    Winky wrote: »
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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Boris is an ideological black hole. He is an opportunist. He will grow into any political vacuum he can find, like a weed that one can never quite remove from their garden

    I suspect that we will only be rid of Boris once he shuffles off the mortal coil. The man will do anything to become PM, I believe.

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  • HerrCronHerrCron It that wickedly supports taxation Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Boris is an ideological black hole. He is an opportunist. He will grow into any political vacuum he can find, like a weed that one can never quite remove from their garden

    I suspect that we will only be rid of Boris once he shuffles off the mortal coil. The man will do anything to become PM, I believe.

    Bojo - the Japanese knotweed of politics

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  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Casual wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    i am pretty sure he has calculated this well enough. they know they cant get rid of him - see the polling data i posted on first page, hes most popular with membership - and his comments are just this side of formal racism to hit that sweet spot of the majority of the uk supporting him which, according to surveys, they seem to

    I agree. I think refusing to apologise will play well with the sort of people who already like him and the investigation will be toothless.

    Frankly even if he did get booted out, I can see a nightmare scenario of him actually getting somewhere with a home grown populist party.

    Boris could take over UKIP.

    In all seriousness, UKIP has too much stink on it even for Boris.

    I think the only real barrier is that they're too small time.

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
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  • Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Surreal. Immersive. Earth.Registered User regular
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Wouldn't them making their own party split the Tory vote and increase likelihood of a Labor win?

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  • HerrCronHerrCron It that wickedly supports taxation Registered User regular
    They say that there are no wrong opinions, but yet, here we are....

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie ATOMIKA! IT’S ME! IT’S DESKTOP HIPPIE!Registered User regular
    Just in case anyone is wondering how post referendum relations between the UK and Ireland are doing, No. 10 asked the Irish Government to please stop going on about Northern Ireland being central to the Brexit negotiations because it’s making them look bad and it’s all very awkward.


    Siobhán is with the BBC, but the article is from the Irish Times newspaper.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    It's funny that as bad as the US has it with Trump, it's the UK that has really hit the end-state of right-wing politics faster. Brexit is literally slamming the entire UK against reality over and over again and the right is just closing it's eyes, plugging it's ears and acting like if they just believe hard enough, reality will change for them. Beyond post-truth to post-reality politics.

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  • HerrCronHerrCron It that wickedly supports taxation Registered User regular
    Just in case anyone is wondering how post referendum relations between the UK and Ireland are doing, No. 10 asked the Irish Government to please stop going on about Northern Ireland being central to the Brexit negotiations because it’s making them look bad and it’s all very awkward.


    Siobhán is with the BBC, but the article is from the Irish Times newspaper.

    The Irish government, in response: "We will, yeah"

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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    shryke wrote: »
    It's funny that as bad as the US has it with Trump, it's the UK that has really hit the end-state of right-wing politics faster. Brexit is literally slamming the entire UK against reality over and over again and the right is just closing it's eyes, plugging it's ears and acting like if they just believe hard enough, reality will change for them. Beyond post-truth to post-reality politics.

    The us has huge political inertia. The UK has a more flexible, adaptable political system and thus can achieve a nimbler plunge into dystopia.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie ATOMIKA! IT’S ME! IT’S DESKTOP HIPPIE!Registered User regular
    I really miss Black Mirror being fiction. The David Cameron and the pig’s head thing wasn’t worth the price.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    I really miss Black Mirror being fiction. The David Cameron and the pig’s head thing wasn’t worth the price.

    Even more frustrating is the fact that the leave/remain vote has flipped and has been like that for about 6 months. If you held another referendum now leave would lose!

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  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    I really miss Black Mirror being fiction. The David Cameron and the pig’s head thing wasn’t worth the price.

    Even more frustrating is the fact that the leave/remain vote has flipped and has been like that for about 6 months. If you held another referendum now leave would lose!

    I am, completely seriously, not convinced of this. If we were to have another referendum I think the pro-Brexit propaganda machine would spin right up again and they're flat out better at it than the Remain side.

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  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    I really miss Black Mirror being fiction. The David Cameron and the pig’s head thing wasn’t worth the price.

    Even more frustrating is the fact that the leave/remain vote has flipped and has been like that for about 6 months. If you held another referendum now leave would lose!

    I am, completely seriously, not convinced of this. If we were to have another referendum I think the pro-Brexit propaganda machine would spin right up again and they're flat out better at it than the Remain side.

    Yup, I suspect that a re-run would see a doubling down of the Remain side talking about doom and gloom, which despite 2 years worth of uncertainty or outright failure, cannot compete with sunshine and rainbows. The 2 biggest mistakes were assuming that Remain would walk it and not talking up the Pro-EU part of the argument as a counterpoint to the more hopeful and optimistic tone* of the Leave.

    *from a certain point of view and not for a lot of groups I know.

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    I also suspect on a re-vote turnout would be quite a bit higher.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Just in case anyone is wondering how post referendum relations between the UK and Ireland are doing, No. 10 asked the Irish Government to please stop going on about Northern Ireland being central to the Brexit negotiations because it’s making them look bad and it’s all very awkward.


    Siobhán is with the BBC, but the article is from the Irish Times newspaper.

    Would you please stop pointing out that land is solid and contiguous?

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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    We don't need another fucking referendum we need Brexit to be stopped for the good of the nation and for parties to be accountable at the ballot box

    Which is how it works for good reason

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    I really miss Black Mirror being fiction. The David Cameron and the pig’s head thing wasn’t worth the price.

    Even more frustrating is the fact that the leave/remain vote has flipped and has been like that for about 6 months. If you held another referendum now leave would lose!

    I am, completely seriously, not convinced of this. If we were to have another referendum I think the pro-Brexit propaganda machine would spin right up again and they're flat out better at it than the Remain side.

    You'd still have both major parties supporting Brexit at the polls.

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  • Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Surreal. Immersive. Earth.Registered User regular
    I am playing 'We Happy Few' right now, and I'm finding it to be a great 'post-brexit-preparedness-simulator'.
    Taking place within the mid-1960s, following an alternative version of World War II, players take control over one of three characters, each of whom seek to complete a personal task while escaping the fictional city of Wellington Wells - a crumbling dystopia on the verge of societal collapse, due to the overuse of a hallucinogenic drug that keeps its inhabitants blissfully unaware about the truth of their world, while leaving them easily manipulated and lacking morals.



    Remember to take your dose of Joy (aka bullshit Tory propaganda), folks! :rotate:

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    "Happiness is a Choice!"

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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    I also suspect on a re-vote turnout would be quite a bit higher.

    Almost certainly not among the 18-24 demographic though which it would have to be for the result to be any different. I read in a BBC article last week that while over 70% would vote to remain less than half of those surveyed said they would guarantee to show up to vote in another referendum. Bearing in mind that's less than half of them willing to make the commitment in a hypothetical scenario never mind actually getting up and doing it in real life.

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  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Burnage wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    I really miss Black Mirror being fiction. The David Cameron and the pig’s head thing wasn’t worth the price.

    Even more frustrating is the fact that the leave/remain vote has flipped and has been like that for about 6 months. If you held another referendum now leave would lose!

    I am, completely seriously, not convinced of this. If we were to have another referendum I think the pro-Brexit propaganda machine would spin right up again and they're flat out better at it than the Remain side.

    Propaganda is always better when you don't feel particularly beholden to actual reality. Pro-Remain side only has facts and truth. Pro-Brexit can sell a moon made of cheese because hey, who knows what's behind that hill! We have never gone there before! IT COULD be an enormous pot of gold and a giant tub of icecream! Sure, the Remain side are warning that the hill ends in a cliff over the sea, but what do they know?

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