I turned war mode off on shadow priest and on for my hunter because one of those was better at surviving in the wild than the other. Works out, I'm just grinding rep on my priest, don't need to waste time with no campers.
Wow pvp has always been kind of brutal though. Rarely a even-sided experience, one way or the other.
getting gear in warfront is way too random. ran through killing the rare named and got one piece. Even was in on a doom howl kill and only got gold. It feels like there should be a % increase for each rare you kill to get a drop. First rare = 1%, second rare = 2%, 3rd = 4%, 4th = 8%, etc. I don't know, just by the end of me killing everything let me feel like i accomplished something for the time i put in. If this was supposed to be an alternate way to get catchup gear then don't make it possible to be so unlucky.
My personal optimal solution would actually be tokens from killing rares and being able to turn tokens into gear.
Why do you think it would work differently than say Argus rares?
i came back to WoW after leaving mid-panda so i never really did WoD or Legion. Came back about a month before BfA and mostly spent the time running through that older content. I have no knowledge of how Argus worked, just expressing that RNG is usually an inefficient way to motivate most people to keep doing something. Seems like a simple change that would keep people farming stuff for a long time and make it easier on people with Alt-itis.
I think people are latching onto the three weeks thing too much. There may be a cap on how much they let you catch-up, but maybe not.
You don't PvP at all for a few weeks... you do it hardcore one week, and you get all the rewards you missed for each 500 increment you accumulate.
The cap is a season, I believe it's been that way for a while. You could theoretically pvp 24/7 in the last week of a season and earn an entire season of 500 reward increments in one week.
I think people are latching onto the three weeks thing too much. There may be a cap on how much they let you catch-up, but maybe not.
You don't PvP at all for a few weeks... you do it hardcore one week, and you get all the rewards you missed for each 500 increment you accumulate.
The cap is a season, I believe it's been that way for a while. You could theoretically pvp 24/7 in the last week of a season and earn an entire season of 500 reward increments in one week.
Previously when conquest was a quasi-currency it worked this way too; there was a weekly cap but un-gained points rolled over from week to week. That is the best way to think about the current system
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
So the warfront scenario is uh.....huh. Feels like when you come across some kind of progression system from like 3 expansions ago so there's a ton of stuff there that you just ignore, do the thing, and move on.
But I got a 375 and a 350 out of it so that's neat
I almost kind of liked the system of having PvP sets available for marks of honor after the current season was over, although it would be nice if the elite arena versions became available in some way like mythic raid sets do rather than vanishing into the stupid bullshit Prestige Zone. I guess arena ratings are more Prestigious than mythic raids huh! That's the message I'm sure getting! But since they decided mostly-PvE content like warden towers giving marks of honor was bad, fuck that whole system I guess.
I still absolutely loathe the idea of "prestige" content. I've played the game since launch and may have stuff that folks can't get anymore. I'd be perfectly fine letting other people go back and get the stuff still as it would make them happy to get it and that's fine by me. I have the legendary cloaks on my monk and did the mage tower on my bear for all of those appearances. I'd love it if they went back and opened those back up for returning or new players. It's weird to remove content.
Most old pvp appearances can still be bought with marks of honor (that's literally what they are for now). The only ones that can't are the ones that required a specific rating to have obtained originally. Of all the prestige content, IMO that is the content that should stay locked away, as it's effectively a trophy for being the best of the best in a timed tournament. I agree that old content that was available to everyone should stay unlocked though.
so what makes them different from, say, mythic raid appearances
Anyone can get a mythic raid appearance. Not everyone will, but if the entire player base was motivated enough they all could. Because of the way the arena ranking system works, only a certain n% of players can get over a certain rating, so only a certain percentage of people will be able to become eligible for the high tier appearances.
This is a load of crap, btw. 2000 CR, the requirement for getting Elite PvP sets, is not the top bracket. It's not even close to the top bracket. If I had to compare it to anything, I'd compare it to the Heroic raiding of PvP. Yeah, you're competent. But you're not living in the same universe as the r1 PvPers.
The fact that Elite sets can't be gotten after the fact, same as PvE gear, benefits no one and isn't consistent with the rest of the game. They just don't want to deal with the headache of a vocal minority of grognards losing their minds. Like they did last time this was discussed.
eh, it's the same in the sense that your casual CE guild isn't in the same class as the world top 50; like our raid is nothing particularly special as mythic raids go but we're still in the top few percentage points of everyone who pves
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Yeah if you've downed one current mythic raid boss you're in like, the top 95% percentile of all players, and if you've cleared the current mythic raid thats 99% percentile.
Jephery on
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"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Thinking of old sets: are the raid finder queues available for Legion content yet, and is so where are they? I really like the raid finder version of the plate armor, but I'm missing a few pieces.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
Thinking of old sets: are the raid finder queues available for Legion content yet, and is so where are they? I really like the raid finder version of the plate armor, but I'm missing a few pieces.
I feel like the free 340 gear at the end of Warfronts has completely invalidated the entire dungeon progression system after only a month of this expansion coming out.
There's no need for a person to do the Normal -> Heroic -> Mythic progression anymore in dungeons, or even run dungeons at all, because they can get free 340's in 15 minutes of War Fronts.
Don't get me wrong here. I'm 100% in favor of catch-up mechanics as an expansion ages, and as old content becomes trivial and new content requires a higher bar of entry. So that's what I'm not upset about here.
What irritates me is that the expansion is only 1 month old. It came out basically this time last month. All of the content is still fresh. There is no such thing as trivial content, and there is no such thing as obsolete tiers within this expansion. There is literally zero need for catchup mechanics this early in the expansion.
And yet here we are. They're already giving out 340s for free after only 4 weeks of the expansion even being in existence. With the release of this one new feature, they have completely excluded dungeons from ever needing to be run again.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
With the release of this one new feature, they have completely excluded dungeons from ever needing to be run again.
Uh, what?
I explained the what.
The free 340 gear from War Fronts makes it so after just 1 month of this expansion being out, people do not need to run Normal -> Heroic -> Mythic anymore, because they can skip all that.
Warfronts potentially get you geared enough to start pushing M+, but the scenarios are only open for a week, take a reasonably long time to only give 1 slot of something that might have already been upgraded, and honestly feel way grindier than dungeons.
EDIT: Also, since when is having an alternative to dungeons a bad thing? Are you also just furious at the engineer's goggles, or buyable gear from vendors for hitting reputation breakpoints?
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cptruggedI think it has something to do with free will.Registered Userregular
I feel like the free 340 gear at the end of Warfronts has completely invalidated the entire dungeon progression system after only a month of this expansion coming out.
There's no need for a person to do the Normal -> Heroic -> Mythic progression anymore in dungeons, or even run dungeons at all, because they can get free 340's in 15 minutes of War Fronts.
Don't get me wrong here. I'm 100% in favor of catch-up mechanics as an expansion ages, and as old content becomes trivial and new content requires a higher bar of entry. So that's what I'm not upset about here.
What irritates me is that the expansion is only 1 month old. It came out basically this time last month. All of the content is still fresh. There is no such thing as trivial content, and there is no such thing as obsolete tiers within this expansion. There is literally zero need for catchup mechanics this early in the expansion.
And yet here we are. They're already giving out 340s for free after only 4 weeks of the expansion even being in existence. With the release of this one new feature, they have completely excluded dungeons from ever needing to be run again.
It definitely is an interesting design choice. Take a group into the scenario and everyone is going to get a 340. Even if they are a fresh 120.
Though what ilvl does mythic0 drop? Isn't that where things start dropping higher than 340? I guess mythics are for getting rings and trinkets now.
I would agree with you for the most part Lucas but Warfronts seem like they will probably only be up maybe one week out of the month. That should mean most folks will have to do dungeons a majority of the time and when a Warfront week comes up they'll probably go fill in any empty spots that way.
I mean we'll be 6-7 weeks into the expansion before the Alliance even sees a Warfront for the first time correct? That means it'll almost be Blizzcon by the time the 2nd Warfront comes around for the Alliance.
I would agree with you for the most part Lucas but Warfronts seem like they will probably only be up maybe one week out of the month. That should mean most folks will have to do dungeons a majority of the time and when a Warfront week comes up they'll probably go fill in any empty spots that way.
I mean we'll be 6-7 weeks into the expansion before the Alliance even sees a Warfront for the first time correct? That means it'll almost be Blizzcon by the time the 2nd Warfront comes around for the Alliance.
Aren't there going to be three warfronts running at once? It'll be a bit before they get those online but I thought it was more than just arathi.
I feel like the free 340 gear at the end of Warfronts has completely invalidated the entire dungeon progression system after only a month of this expansion coming out.
There's no need for a person to do the Normal -> Heroic -> Mythic progression anymore in dungeons, or even run dungeons at all, because they can get free 340's in 15 minutes of War Fronts.
Don't get me wrong here. I'm 100% in favor of catch-up mechanics as an expansion ages, and as old content becomes trivial and new content requires a higher bar of entry. So that's what I'm not upset about here.
What irritates me is that the expansion is only 1 month old. It came out basically this time last month. All of the content is still fresh. There is no such thing as trivial content, and there is no such thing as obsolete tiers within this expansion. There is literally zero need for catchup mechanics this early in the expansion.
And yet here we are. They're already giving out 340s for free after only 4 weeks of the expansion even being in existence. With the release of this one new feature, they have completely excluded dungeons from ever needing to be run again.
It definitely is an interesting design choice. Take a group into the scenario and everyone is going to get a 340. Even if they are a fresh 120.
Though what ilvl does mythic0 drop? Isn't that where things start dropping higher than 340? I guess mythics are for getting rings and trinkets now.
Sooo, the horde side of Lordaeron felt even longer and, impossibly, more boring.
Then there's that goddamn pyramid.
Horde-side questing...gets better, right?
I liked Zuldazar and Nazmir a lot, with Nazmir probably being my favorite. Vol'dun I could really take or leave, since the first 2/3rd of the zone doesn't really have a cohesive story. Once you start interacting with the Sethrakk it gets better.
You don't get rings or trinkets from Warfront and it's basic entry level mythic quality gear.
It's great for alts and people who don't want to run dungeons but it in no way even remotely invalidates progression for people who want to push for better gear.
The War Front switches on a weekly basis, or so it appears based on 1 week of data.
Horde owns it for this week, which means any horde player at all, even a fresh 120 wearing quest greens can start claiming 340 gear. And that's the crux of my issue. Yes, it will cycle back to Alliance, and then that fresh 120 will not have access for a week. But in general, I just feel like giving guaranteed 340 gear per completion has basically eliminated the dungeon hierarchy.
And I'm not talking about M+ at all. I'm talking about the natural gear progression that happens. A person gets to 120. They run normal and earn 310 gear. Then they run heroics and earn 325 gear. Then they run Mythics (standard normal mythics) and earn 340 gear.
Now they don't have to do any of that. Now they can just skip straight to War Fronts (bi-weekly) and have it all for way less effort.
I guess it just feels like they are shortening the lifespan of the expansion by doing this. It's a shortcut that opened way too early.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I would agree with you for the most part Lucas but Warfronts seem like they will probably only be up maybe one week out of the month. That should mean most folks will have to do dungeons a majority of the time and when a Warfront week comes up they'll probably go fill in any empty spots that way.
I mean we'll be 6-7 weeks into the expansion before the Alliance even sees a Warfront for the first time correct? That means it'll almost be Blizzcon by the time the 2nd Warfront comes around for the Alliance.
Aren't there going to be three warfronts running at once? It'll be a bit before they get those online but I thought it was more than just arathi.
There's going to be an unknown amount of warfronts sometime in the future, maybe.
For all we know they've internally decided that adding more would cost a raid tier and won't add more.
The War Front switches on a weekly basis, or so it appears based on 1 week of data.
Horde owns it for this week, which means any horde player at all, even a fresh 120 wearing quest greens can start claiming 340 gear. And that's the crux of my issue. Yes, it will cycle back to Alliance, and then that fresh 120 will not have access for a week. But in general, I just feel like giving guaranteed 340 gear per completion has basically eliminated the dungeon hierarchy.
And I'm not talking about M+ at all. I'm talking about the natural gear progression that happens. A person gets to 120. They run normal and earn 310 gear. Then they run heroics and earn 325 gear. Then they run Mythics (standard normal mythics) and earn 340 gear.
Now they don't have to do any of that. Now they can just skip straight to War Fronts (bi-weekly) and have it all for way less effort.
I guess it just feels like they are shortening the lifespan of the expansion by doing this. It's a shortcut that opened way too early.
Except the 'natural gear progressiion' also takes around that time, and if it doesn't, it's because of the weekly mythic lockout, which is dumb.
I got my hunter alt to 120, did the warfront and got a 370 gun. It made me not really want to play because my main has been struggling to even get a second 340 weapon. It was kind of infuriating putting all the effort into it and then my hunter gets a free ride.
So, mythic chests - how do you actually get the weekly chest? Does it just pop up in your inventory?
In previous expansions it was in your garrison or in your order hall. In BfA my assumption would be it will be on the boat or near the PvP vendors (on Horde that's just outside the main city to the Southwest).
Sooo, the horde side of Lordaeron felt even longer and, impossibly, more boring.
Then there's that goddamn pyramid.
Horde-side questing...gets better, right?
Horde-side has some great questing. Zuldazar the city zone is really good. Nazmir has a great story and some of the best characters. Voldun is really pretty for a desert zone and has the turtle and fox people which are awesome. And a great cursed pirate area.
I really liked all the horde questing this expansion. I recommend doing Zuldazar after Nazmir or last just story wise you can flow in the final quest lines and story. Plus the Horde story actually sets up Uldir unlike the Alliance story.
Yeah, I don't really see a big deal with Warfronts dropping 340 gear. After poking around, it doesn't cover ring or trinket slots, it's pretty RNG on what slots you fill. Also the items out of it have set stat allotments, which mean for some specs (like ret) most of the gear is only good as an ilvl boost (aka str boost) and your best bet for serious BIS fishing is outside of warfronts (I think pants and wrist were the on really good pieces for me).
I do't see this being a problem if your pushing hard content because it makes it easier to get there and work on it. Not a huge issue that this makes questing and getting into mythics easier. Also the timeline is insane, I doubt I'll be motivated to get a character to cap before the scenario goes (granted, I might have the time now that I"m out of Chesapeake because of the storm, but my folks internet isn't the best, but thank god it's no longer satellite).
The War Front switches on a weekly basis, or so it appears based on 1 week of data.
Horde owns it for this week, which means any horde player at all, even a fresh 120 wearing quest greens can start claiming 340 gear. And that's the crux of my issue. Yes, it will cycle back to Alliance, and then that fresh 120 will not have access for a week. But in general, I just feel like giving guaranteed 340 gear per completion has basically eliminated the dungeon hierarchy.
And I'm not talking about M+ at all. I'm talking about the natural gear progression that happens. A person gets to 120. They run normal and earn 310 gear. Then they run heroics and earn 325 gear. Then they run Mythics (standard normal mythics) and earn 340 gear.
Now they don't have to do any of that. Now they can just skip straight to War Fronts (bi-weekly) and have it all for way less effort.
I guess it just feels like they are shortening the lifespan of the expansion by doing this. It's a shortcut that opened way too early.
You're not wrong, this does make it significantly easier to gear up for the first tier of raids. Though, to be honest, this does make it nice for alts so I don't have to go through the whole gear cycle. I'm not sure it's as bad as you're implying.
Also, for some clarification, it's not bi-weekly. There's basically 4 phases per complete cycle:
So it's more like for 1 week out of the month (currently, until they add more) you can go grind these for 340 gear. I don't think that's going to ruin dungeons.
As an alliance player that actually wanted to do warfronts, fuck that cycle. Let me turn in the goddamned war effort now. They're assaulting Stormgarde, shouldn't we be marshaling our resources?
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Y’all are kind of missing the point, and Lucas is right. War fronts give a guaranteed piece of gear. Mythic dungeons do not. War fronts are 100% repeatable for that week. There are a limited number of mythic dungeons per week. Also, when done right people have reported 10 minute warfront runs. Even if exaggerated, 20 minutes for a guaranteed item VASTLY beats out longer dungeons for a non guaranteed item. Most people will take guaranteed in a heartbeat.
Do you remember what happened last time dungeons were invalidated that early? It was wod. There were ways to be geared beyond heroic dungeons super early. It became dead content. I know m+ does change that a little, but m+ is not as approachable as it seems especially this early.
Think long term. They are already making some poor decisions long term this xpac. This is likely going to be another one.
Also, pretty fucked that for almost 2 weeks longer this is an advantage entirely held by horde only
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Just limited people to talk to, and it took my wife a while to find the right freaking one.
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Wow pvp has always been kind of brutal though. Rarely a even-sided experience, one way or the other.
i came back to WoW after leaving mid-panda so i never really did WoD or Legion. Came back about a month before BfA and mostly spent the time running through that older content. I have no knowledge of how Argus worked, just expressing that RNG is usually an inefficient way to motivate most people to keep doing something. Seems like a simple change that would keep people farming stuff for a long time and make it easier on people with Alt-itis.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
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The cap is a season, I believe it's been that way for a while. You could theoretically pvp 24/7 in the last week of a season and earn an entire season of 500 reward increments in one week.
This is why I will never turn War Mode on.
More power to those of you that have the energy for it.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Previously when conquest was a quasi-currency it worked this way too; there was a weekly cap but un-gained points rolled over from week to week. That is the best way to think about the current system
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
But I got a 375 and a 350 out of it so that's neat
Nope, do it as much as you want. You only get the 370 once though.
And you get a 340 each time.
This is a load of crap, btw. 2000 CR, the requirement for getting Elite PvP sets, is not the top bracket. It's not even close to the top bracket. If I had to compare it to anything, I'd compare it to the Heroic raiding of PvP. Yeah, you're competent. But you're not living in the same universe as the r1 PvPers.
The fact that Elite sets can't be gotten after the fact, same as PvE gear, benefits no one and isn't consistent with the rest of the game. They just don't want to deal with the headache of a vocal minority of grognards losing their minds. Like they did last time this was discussed.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
*Zones into a group with somebody MBing 6 druids all afk*
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Thinking of old sets: are the raid finder queues available for Legion content yet, and is so where are they? I really like the raid finder version of the plate armor, but I'm missing a few pieces.
I don't think there is yet.
There's no need for a person to do the Normal -> Heroic -> Mythic progression anymore in dungeons, or even run dungeons at all, because they can get free 340's in 15 minutes of War Fronts.
Don't get me wrong here. I'm 100% in favor of catch-up mechanics as an expansion ages, and as old content becomes trivial and new content requires a higher bar of entry. So that's what I'm not upset about here.
What irritates me is that the expansion is only 1 month old. It came out basically this time last month. All of the content is still fresh. There is no such thing as trivial content, and there is no such thing as obsolete tiers within this expansion. There is literally zero need for catchup mechanics this early in the expansion.
And yet here we are. They're already giving out 340s for free after only 4 weeks of the expansion even being in existence. With the release of this one new feature, they have completely excluded dungeons from ever needing to be run again.
Uh, what?
I explained the what.
The free 340 gear from War Fronts makes it so after just 1 month of this expansion being out, people do not need to run Normal -> Heroic -> Mythic anymore, because they can skip all that.
EDIT: Also, since when is having an alternative to dungeons a bad thing? Are you also just furious at the engineer's goggles, or buyable gear from vendors for hitting reputation breakpoints?
It definitely is an interesting design choice. Take a group into the scenario and everyone is going to get a 340. Even if they are a fresh 120.
Though what ilvl does mythic0 drop? Isn't that where things start dropping higher than 340? I guess mythics are for getting rings and trinkets now.
I mean we'll be 6-7 weeks into the expansion before the Alliance even sees a Warfront for the first time correct? That means it'll almost be Blizzcon by the time the 2nd Warfront comes around for the Alliance.
Aren't there going to be three warfronts running at once? It'll be a bit before they get those online but I thought it was more than just arathi.
Mythic 0 drops 340 as well.
Then there's that goddamn pyramid.
Horde-side questing...gets better, right?
I liked Zuldazar and Nazmir a lot, with Nazmir probably being my favorite. Vol'dun I could really take or leave, since the first 2/3rd of the zone doesn't really have a cohesive story. Once you start interacting with the Sethrakk it gets better.
It's great for alts and people who don't want to run dungeons but it in no way even remotely invalidates progression for people who want to push for better gear.
Horde owns it for this week, which means any horde player at all, even a fresh 120 wearing quest greens can start claiming 340 gear. And that's the crux of my issue. Yes, it will cycle back to Alliance, and then that fresh 120 will not have access for a week. But in general, I just feel like giving guaranteed 340 gear per completion has basically eliminated the dungeon hierarchy.
And I'm not talking about M+ at all. I'm talking about the natural gear progression that happens. A person gets to 120. They run normal and earn 310 gear. Then they run heroics and earn 325 gear. Then they run Mythics (standard normal mythics) and earn 340 gear.
Now they don't have to do any of that. Now they can just skip straight to War Fronts (bi-weekly) and have it all for way less effort.
I guess it just feels like they are shortening the lifespan of the expansion by doing this. It's a shortcut that opened way too early.
There's going to be an unknown amount of warfronts sometime in the future, maybe.
For all we know they've internally decided that adding more would cost a raid tier and won't add more.
Except the 'natural gear progressiion' also takes around that time, and if it doesn't, it's because of the weekly mythic lockout, which is dumb.
At least I didn't feel bad enchanting it.
In previous expansions it was in your garrison or in your order hall. In BfA my assumption would be it will be on the boat or near the PvP vendors (on Horde that's just outside the main city to the Southwest).
Horde-side has some great questing. Zuldazar the city zone is really good. Nazmir has a great story and some of the best characters. Voldun is really pretty for a desert zone and has the turtle and fox people which are awesome. And a great cursed pirate area.
I really liked all the horde questing this expansion. I recommend doing Zuldazar after Nazmir or last just story wise you can flow in the final quest lines and story. Plus the Horde story actually sets up Uldir unlike the Alliance story.
I do't see this being a problem if your pushing hard content because it makes it easier to get there and work on it. Not a huge issue that this makes questing and getting into mythics easier. Also the timeline is insane, I doubt I'll be motivated to get a character to cap before the scenario goes (granted, I might have the time now that I"m out of Chesapeake because of the storm, but my folks internet isn't the best, but thank god it's no longer satellite).
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
You're not wrong, this does make it significantly easier to gear up for the first tier of raids. Though, to be honest, this does make it nice for alts so I don't have to go through the whole gear cycle. I'm not sure it's as bad as you're implying.
Also, for some clarification, it's not bi-weekly. There's basically 4 phases per complete cycle:
Phase 1: Horde resource turn ins, Alliance owns Arathi (5-6 days? No warfronts)
Phase 2: Horde warfronts, Alliance owns Arathi (1 week)
Phase 3: Alliance resource turn-ins, Horde owns Arathi (5-6 days? No warfronts)
Phase 4: Alliance warfronts, Horde owns Arathi (1 week)
So it's more like for 1 week out of the month (currently, until they add more) you can go grind these for 340 gear. I don't think that's going to ruin dungeons.
Do you remember what happened last time dungeons were invalidated that early? It was wod. There were ways to be geared beyond heroic dungeons super early. It became dead content. I know m+ does change that a little, but m+ is not as approachable as it seems especially this early.
Think long term. They are already making some poor decisions long term this xpac. This is likely going to be another one.
Also, pretty fucked that for almost 2 weeks longer this is an advantage entirely held by horde only