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[Board Games] aren't worth playing until you add at least five expansions

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Posts

  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    So uhhh what do y'all think about the whole Manitoba fracas?

    I think it's not that big a deal. Theme is usually pasted on to make the mechanics easier to explain. The designer could have called it manitobe and have given the people in the pictures pointy ears and it wouldn't have made a difference.

    Boy are you in the wrong on this. Way to lazily dismiss the commercialization and cultural appropriation of an already often marginalized set of peoples and cultures. :|
    If the designers wanted to make a game about fantastical native cultures, they should have done that. It would still be offensive, but still less so than putting nearly every native american / first nations stereotype they can fit onto and into a box together. It just makes them all out to be royal asshats for trampling all over a culture they apparently wanted to explore (or maybe exploit <_< ), but couldn't be assed to do any research towards. This is built into a number of the game's core mechanics, having players literally advance a totem path and work on crafting wampum belts. Like, for fuck's sake, they even get their geographical description of the province wrong.
    None of this is helped by the designers' participation in the conversation to not acknowledge any of this as problematic behaviour, and basically double down on their "works of fiction create new reality" horseshit.
    Don't buy this game. Don't support the designers or publisher for this product. It's 2018; it is on them to do better.

    ArcticLancer on
    KetarA Dabble Of TheloniusinitiatefailureJustTeeRiemannLivesDarkPrimusVirgil_Leads_You
  • CampyCampy Registered User regular
    I've been wondering about Formula D for a while now. A strange part of my brain is just leery of older games though. Is there a more modern similar game?

  • LindLind Registered User regular
    Formula D is pretty fun, you might also want to have a look at Flamme Rouge.

    CaptainPeacock
  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    So uhhh what do y'all think about the whole Manitoba fracas?

    I think it's not that big a deal. Theme is usually pasted on to make the mechanics easier to explain. The designer could have called it manitobe and have given the people in the pictures pointy ears and it wouldn't have made a difference.

    This is... a really bad comment. For several reasons. The first being that you clearly have no idea why white people using an aboriginal culture for profit after other white people have spent about 150 years deliberately trying to destroy it is problematic. The second being that even your example of a "fix" is disgustingly racist.

    There's a couple of really easy rules for anyone who wants to make money by selling another person's culture for profit:
    1) Don't.
    2) If, for some reason, you think that you have a really, really great idea, and can only execute it by incorporating someone else's cultural history, talk to some people from that culture and get their input to make sure that what you are creating has some semblance of a connection to reality and isn't horrifically offensive.

    The designers of this game failed utterly at both points. When confronted about this, they have acknowledged that they made factual errors while implying that it was really hard to avoid (note: a single google search for "totem pole" will tell you within 2 minutes that they were never created by any of the Prairie nations, as just one extremely simple example) and then blamed their publisher for everything. They don't seem to be learning much from this fiasco either.

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  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo But do you really believe him? Registered User regular
    Lind wrote: »
    Formula D is pretty fun, you might also want to have a look at Flamme Rouge.

    I've heard Flamme Rouge is really good but I just can't get over the theme having no appeal at all

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    Campy
  • CampyCampy Registered User regular
    Oh man, I hadn't seen that Formula D supports up to 10 players, that's a pretty big plus point for me.

    CaptainPeacockwebguy20
  • SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    Campy wrote: »
    Oh man, I hadn't seen that Formula D supports up to 10 players, that's a pretty big plus point for me.

    Just make sure if you play with a lot of players that people understand it is supposed to move FAST. I have had people try to play that game where when it gets to their turn they look at the board and start counting spaces, and start analyzing the number distribution on each die, and it just bogs down into nonsense. You might take about 30-40 turns per lap, so each turn should move quickly. I'm actually thinking about getting rid of my copy even though I like the game, just because my friends tend to take too long.

    CaptainPeacock
  • CaptainPeacockCaptainPeacock Board Game Hoarder Top o' the LakeRegistered User regular
    Just saw that earlier this year the old German game Waldschattenspiel has been redone in the US as Shadows in the Forest. The candle had been replaced by an LED lamp and the dwarves replaced by "Shadowlings". Now I'll finally be able to get it at a reasonable price!

    Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
    Medium DaveFrem
  • BlazeFireBlazeFire Registered User regular
    Campy wrote: »
    Oh man, I hadn't seen that Formula D supports up to 10 players, that's a pretty big plus point for me.

    Just make sure if you play with a lot of players that people understand it is supposed to move FAST. I have had people try to play that game where when it gets to their turn they look at the board and start counting spaces, and start analyzing the number distribution on each die, and it just bogs down into nonsense. You might take about 30-40 turns per lap, so each turn should move quickly. I'm actually thinking about getting rid of my copy even though I like the game, just because my friends tend to take too long.

    I'm not familiar with the game at all but could you add some kind of timer mechanism to force people to make quicker decisions?

  • Ah_PookAh_Pook Registered User regular
    It's interesting to see the difference in handling a somewhat similar situation between Manitoba and Teotihuacan. Teotihuacan had some historically off base marketing early on, but they essentially fixed the issues and continued forward. The Manitoba guys essentially shrugged and said deal with it.

    Relevant bgg thread https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1911764/did-designers-bother-looking-history-or-descriptio/page/1

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  • SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    Campy wrote: »
    Oh man, I hadn't seen that Formula D supports up to 10 players, that's a pretty big plus point for me.

    Just make sure if you play with a lot of players that people understand it is supposed to move FAST. I have had people try to play that game where when it gets to their turn they look at the board and start counting spaces, and start analyzing the number distribution on each die, and it just bogs down into nonsense. You might take about 30-40 turns per lap, so each turn should move quickly. I'm actually thinking about getting rid of my copy even though I like the game, just because my friends tend to take too long.

    I'm not familiar with the game at all but could you add some kind of timer mechanism to force people to make quicker decisions?

    You definitely could, as long as you think it would fly with your group. I don't think it would fly with mine. Part of the issue is that my friends are often very chatty and spend their downtime in conversation and not really watching the board, especially for lighter games like this one.

  • KetarKetar My autocomplete is a tad agressive today.Registered User regular
    Just saw that earlier this year the old German game Waldschattenspiel has been redone in the US as Shadows in the Forest. The candle had been replaced by an LED lamp and the dwarves replaced by "Shadowlings". Now I'll finally be able to get it at a reasonable price!

    You can get it for $25 or less. I just picked up a copy that I'm hoping to play with my kids this weekend.

    CaptainPeacock
  • CaptainPeacockCaptainPeacock Board Game Hoarder Top o' the LakeRegistered User regular
    I'm going to replace the LED with a tealight candle.

    Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
    KetarElvenshae
  • KetarKetar My autocomplete is a tad agressive today.Registered User regular
    I actually also bought a copy (of Shadows in the Forest) that we gave as a present at a birthday party my son attended last weekend. A popular local, independent toy shop was promoting it pretty heavily in a marketing email they sent out and I've been trying to do more board games as gifts for kids' parties lately. It was nice to see it being pushed by a shop that normally only carries a small, but quality selection of board games.

  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    SU&SDs Flamme Rouge Twitch play (watched after the fact on YouTube because I am an old and don’t get the appeal of streams) has probably sold me on a copy if I can find one.

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  • DirtmuncherDirtmuncher Registered User regular
    psyck0 wrote: »
    So uhhh what do y'all think about the whole Manitoba fracas?

    I think it's not that big a deal. Theme is usually pasted on to make the mechanics easier to explain. The designer could have called it manitobe and have given the people in the pictures pointy ears and it wouldn't have made a difference.

    This is... a really bad comment. For several reasons. The first being that you clearly have no idea why white people using an aboriginal culture for profit after other white people have spent about 150 years deliberately trying to destroy it is problematic. The second being that even your example of a "fix" is disgustingly racist.

    There's a couple of really easy rules for anyone who wants to make money by selling another person's culture for profit:
    1) Don't.
    2) If, for some reason, you think that you have a really, really great idea, and can only execute it by incorporating someone else's cultural history, talk to some people from that culture and get their input to make sure that what you are creating has some semblance of a connection to reality and isn't horrifically offensive.

    The designers of this game failed utterly at both points. When confronted about this, they have acknowledged that they made factual errors while implying that it was really hard to avoid (note: a single google search for "totem pole" will tell you within 2 minutes that they were never created by any of the Prairie nations, as just one extremely simple example) and then blamed their publisher for everything. They don't seem to be learning much from this fiasco either.

    Maybe I should have lead with. I think he should change it also. Sorry about that.

    Changing it isn't a big deal because usually the theme is pasted on to fit the mechanics.
    He could have -erase my silly goose remark, pointy ears being a reference to elves- changed it to a fantasy theme and it wouldn't have made a difference.

    A difference to how the game plays/the mechanics.

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  • BlazeFireBlazeFire Registered User regular
    SU&SDs Flamme Rouge Twitch play (watched after the fact on YouTube because I am an old and don’t get the appeal of streams) has probably sold me on a copy if I can find one.

    Is it hard to find right now? My local shop must have 6 copies on the shelf.

  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    SU&SDs Flamme Rouge Twitch play (watched after the fact on YouTube because I am an old and don’t get the appeal of streams) has probably sold me on a copy if I can find one.

    Is it hard to find right now? My local shop must have 6 copies on the shelf.

    I mainly meant if I get around to ordering it. Which I just did! Paying a silly premium for next day shipping because I think it’ll go down well with the in-laws this weekend and I am a terrible creature of impulse.

    TingleSigBar.gif
    LindCaptainPeacock
  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    psyck0 wrote: »
    So uhhh what do y'all think about the whole Manitoba fracas?

    I think it's not that big a deal. Theme is usually pasted on to make the mechanics easier to explain. The designer could have called it manitobe and have given the people in the pictures pointy ears and it wouldn't have made a difference.

    This is... a really bad comment. For several reasons. The first being that you clearly have no idea why white people using an aboriginal culture for profit after other white people have spent about 150 years deliberately trying to destroy it is problematic. The second being that even your example of a "fix" is disgustingly racist.

    There's a couple of really easy rules for anyone who wants to make money by selling another person's culture for profit:
    1) Don't.
    2) If, for some reason, you think that you have a really, really great idea, and can only execute it by incorporating someone else's cultural history, talk to some people from that culture and get their input to make sure that what you are creating has some semblance of a connection to reality and isn't horrifically offensive.

    The designers of this game failed utterly at both points. When confronted about this, they have acknowledged that they made factual errors while implying that it was really hard to avoid (note: a single google search for "totem pole" will tell you within 2 minutes that they were never created by any of the Prairie nations, as just one extremely simple example) and then blamed their publisher for everything. They don't seem to be learning much from this fiasco either.

    Maybe I should have lead with. I think he should change it also. Sorry about that.

    Changing it isn't a big deal because usually the theme is pasted on to fit the mechanics.
    He could have -erase my silly goose remark, pointy ears being a reference to elves- changed it to a fantasy theme and it wouldn't have made a difference.

    A difference to how the game plays/the mechanics.

    Well yeah, that's the problem though. Their first response was literally just well here in Germany we don't have negative stereotypes of indigenous people, just positive ones so really there's no issue because we don't see one and besides a work of fiction creates a new reality

    I Do Design | I PSN- Subtle_Ties | 3DS: 3840-5210-2008 (Subtle)
    ArcticLancer
  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Yeah, I'm in full-on "boycott that shit" mode. Going to have a word with the local stores and see about keeping it off the shelves.

  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    So uhhh what do y'all think about the whole Manitoba fracas?

    I think it's not that big a deal. Theme is usually pasted on to make the mechanics easier to explain. The designer could have called it manitobe and have given the people in the pictures pointy ears and it wouldn't have made a difference.

    this is exactly why people should get these things right and we should be extra critical of shit like Manitoba

    it's so fucking easy to get right

  • TheColonelTheColonel ChicagolandRegistered User regular
    I'd venture that there are plenty of minority groups out there that would probably love to have someone talk with them and to share their history/culture if given the opportunity. But obviously that requires time/research/effort.

    ElvenshaeFuselage
  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    TheColonel wrote: »
    I'd venture that there are plenty of minority groups out there that would probably love to have someone talk with them and to share their history/culture if given the opportunity. But obviously that requires time/research/effort.

    Even that isn't quite the right way to do it. The best is for them to be able to share their stories themselves, and for us to give them the platform to do so in s way they wish.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    psyck0 wrote: »
    So uhhh what do y'all think about the whole Manitoba fracas?

    I think it's not that big a deal. Theme is usually pasted on to make the mechanics easier to explain. The designer could have called it manitobe and have given the people in the pictures pointy ears and it wouldn't have made a difference.

    This is... a really bad comment. For several reasons. The first being that you clearly have no idea why white people using an aboriginal culture for profit after other white people have spent about 150 years deliberately trying to destroy it is problematic. The second being that even your example of a "fix" is disgustingly racist.

    There's a couple of really easy rules for anyone who wants to make money by selling another person's culture for profit:
    1) Don't.
    2) If, for some reason, you think that you have a really, really great idea, and can only execute it by incorporating someone else's cultural history, talk to some people from that culture and get their input to make sure that what you are creating has some semblance of a connection to reality and isn't horrifically offensive.

    The designers of this game failed utterly at both points. When confronted about this, they have acknowledged that they made factual errors while implying that it was really hard to avoid (note: a single google search for "totem pole" will tell you within 2 minutes that they were never created by any of the Prairie nations, as just one extremely simple example) and then blamed their publisher for everything. They don't seem to be learning much from this fiasco either.

    Maybe I should have lead with. I think he should change it also. Sorry about that.

    Changing it isn't a big deal because usually the theme is pasted on to fit the mechanics.
    He could have -erase my silly goose remark, pointy ears being a reference to elves- changed it to a fantasy theme and it wouldn't have made a difference.

    A difference to how the game plays/the mechanics.

    Well yeah, that's the problem though. Their first response was literally just well here in Germany we don't have negative stereotypes of indigenous people, just positive ones so really there's no issue because we don't see one and besides a work of fiction creates a new reality

    German attitudes about Native Americans should be taught in every classroom as an example of how "positive stereotyping" still sucks and is harmful and disrespectful.

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  • TheColonelTheColonel ChicagolandRegistered User regular
    psyck0 wrote: »
    TheColonel wrote: »
    I'd venture that there are plenty of minority groups out there that would probably love to have someone talk with them and to share their history/culture if given the opportunity. But obviously that requires time/research/effort.

    Even that isn't quite the right way to do it. The best is for them to be able to share their stories themselves, and for us to give them the platform to do so in s way they wish.

    Completely agreed. Was coming at it from the "if they're going to do it they should at least make the attempt" route.

    Elvenshae
  • DarricDarric Santa MonicaRegistered User regular
    As someone who is, as a general rule, not that big a fan of dice games, Formula D is really good. The press your luck element really shines, it plays a bunch of people, and is really fast and funny. But just know that, at it's heart, it's still basically a roll and move game.

    CaptainPeacockRiemannLives
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Darric wrote: »
    As someone who is, as a general rule, not that big a fan of dice games, Formula D is really good. The press your luck element really shines, it plays a bunch of people, and is really fast and funny. But just know that, at it's heart, it's still basically a roll and move game.

    Agreed. Waaay back in the day we used to run a one-lapper at the end of every monthly game club session at the Compleat Strategist in Manhattan, with the winner receiving that month's issue of "Playboy". I still have the Belinda Carlisle issue around here somewhere...

  • webguy20webguy20 Registered User regular
    I think that while it is still a roll and move there are lots of meaningful choices to be made and I think thats what elevates it.

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  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    Now I want to play Formula D. I'll host a PbP if anyone's interested?

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    Elvenshae
  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Got risk legacy in the maul today as my whole family are big risk fans. 4 if us are starting it tonight .

    PowerpuppiesIvellius
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Got risk legacy in the maul today as my whole family are big risk fans. 4 if us are starting it tonight .
    Aren’t you folks in the middle of a Pandemic Legacy playthrough?

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Also, I stared to open the box but it seemed like a whole experience opening it all up the first time. Am I right to not look through it first?

  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    Got risk legacy in the maul today as my whole family are big risk fans. 4 if us are starting it tonight .
    Aren’t you folks in the middle of a Pandemic Legacy playthrough?

    Yes sir. My mom keeps not understandin it so we're going to take a quick break. See if the idea of a legacy game clicks with her.

  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Also, I stared to open the box but it seemed like a whole experience opening it all up the first time. Am I right to not look through it first?

    I think maybe you're not right but it's been a while since I did my playthrough

    sig.gif
  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    RickRude wrote: »
    Also, I stared to open the box but it seemed like a whole experience opening it all up the first time. Am I right to not look through it first?

    I think maybe you're not right but it's been a while since I did my playthrough

    I just saw right at the top the whole
    Sign the declaration of war thing and it made me think it was a part of it.

    RickRude on
  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    Also, I stared to open the box but it seemed like a whole experience opening it all up the first time. Am I right to not look through it first?

    I think maybe you're not right but it's been a while since I did my playthrough

    I just saw right at the top the whole
    Sign the declaration of war thing and it made me think it was a part of it.

    Okay I am now pretty sure you don't need to wait.

    sig.gif
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    The most important house rule in Formula D is that you must make race car noises while you move your piece.

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  • SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    Calling Formula D a roll and move is why the term 'technically correct' exists.

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Ok, I don't understand the coins on the territory cards. Can someone shed dome light?

  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Ok, I don't understand the coins on the territory cards. Can someone shed dome light?

    yes!

    what questions do you have

    i remember understanding but no details

    the better the coins the easier it is to get armies for them

    sig.gif
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