Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[Liberty or Death] Let's play all of the American Revolution! - twice! Starting on page 9.

16791112

Posts

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    On the 2v2, I did mention to @Hedgethorn that the way the game was going I felt I would never catch up to his casualty advantage, specially with the British on the move. I tried to make attacking bad for @TheColonel in Charles Town for as long as possible, but my greed in taking the even trying to lower the number of villages just increased the number of dead. The killings in New York were almost single handed-ly French and I felt there was nothing I could do to stop that.

    I could've fed some chaff to the British forces, but I didn't think of it until too late.

    That's the thing though... you don't want to make attacking Charles Town bad. With Washington and the Rally there you ended up with an even casualty ratio; had you just left it alone it likely would've been +1 or +2 for the British. At that point you'd be within 1-2 and one more Fort and/or a burnt Village would've closed the gap.

  • A Half Eaten OreoA Half Eaten Oreo Registered User regular
    edited September 7
    admanb wrote: »
    I had a hard time finding time to use partisans. I really wanted to march some Militia into the reservations and start burning villages, but never quite had the time and resources. Clearing the Northwest and keeping all those pop 2 colonies free from raids seems really useful.

    Partisans in this game are weird because the thing that they're best at -- killing troops at a low cost -- is something the Patriots actively want to avoid. Instead they end up being a lot better as a discouraging force -- a single Militia in a space not only allows you to use Persuasion and Rabble-Rousing, it also forces the British to bring at least two Regulars and two Tories to any space they want to build Support in.

    Militia are amazing. Just like you were building to move from the Northwest, I really wanted to build to go into the Northwest. At one point you only have villages and I really wanted to send in my Militia and start Partisans-ing them. But I felt if I ever took a turn off to do that The Brits would use the time to strike in Charles Town.

    I needed to find time to turn my Mass Militia into cubes earlier and march them into the Northwest. I think that was my chance at getting more points than the French, but the Brave Patriot continentals never left the comfy-ness of their Massachusetts forts. I think it was a somewhat bloodless fight for the northern patriots.

    A Half Eaten Oreo on
  • A Half Eaten OreoA Half Eaten Oreo Registered User regular
    edited September 7
    admanb wrote: »
    On the 2v2, I did mention to @Hedgethorn that the way the game was going I felt I would never catch up to his casualty advantage, specially with the British on the move. I tried to make attacking bad for @TheColonel in Charles Town for as long as possible, but my greed in taking the even trying to lower the number of villages just increased the number of dead. The killings in New York were almost single handed-ly French and I felt there was nothing I could do to stop that.

    I could've fed some chaff to the British forces, but I didn't think of it until too late.

    That's the thing though... you don't want to make attacking Charles Town bad. With Washington and the Rally there you ended up with an even casualty ratio; had you just left it alone it likely would've been +1 or +2 for the British. At that point you'd be within 1-2 and one more Fort and/or a burnt Village would've closed the gap.

    True, I was thinking that if I made it bad I could just lock the Brit troops there indefinitely as they wouldn't attack.. But it ended up also locking me out and made the casualty ratios favor the French.

    My instinct is to try to win the fights, like in most wargames, but here as long as my forts are fine losing cubes is a positive.

    A Half Eaten Oreo on
  • TheColonelTheColonel ChicagolandRegistered User regular
    I think that may be my favorite thing about this and the other COIN games. You have a "partner" and some shared win condition, but finding that right balance of pushing yourself to victory without boosting your "ally" is a really cool element.

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    TheColonel wrote: »
    I think that may be my favorite thing about this and the other COIN games. You have a "partner" and some shared win condition, but finding that right balance of pushing yourself to victory without boosting your "ally" is a really cool element.

    Definitely. Though I do think it's an area where Liberty or Death falls down in comparison to other COIN games. Not because I think the game doesn't function, but because I think sometimes your goals (particularly for the Patriots) are incredibly unintuitive. I think even with everyone playing "optimally" the game will play out in an historically believable way (unlike one BGG poster who thinks the best way for the Patriots to win is to take all of their armies and spend the whole game invading Indian reservations, which would be a disaster for generating opposition) but the path it takes to get there and the decisions you have to make along the way are often going to feel game-y rather than historical.

    So... shall we play again? I know I said I wanted to play the British but I'm happy to do another faction preference ranking and see where everyone lands. I think this scenario is a good choice.

    @TheColonel @A Half Eaten Oreo @Hedgethorn

  • TheColonelTheColonel ChicagolandRegistered User regular
    I'm game to try again and pass on the reins of the mighty empire I let down.

  • HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    Thanks for hosting for us, admanb.

    I'd be happy to play again, but would also be fine letting someone else have a go if there's a lurker who wants to play.

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    For sure! If anyone wants to jump in just drop a note. I probably won't launch the new game until Monday.

  • HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    edited September 7
    I'm on my phone, so don't want to post all that deep a reflection on the game, but my take on the COIN games is that if you count a team win as "good enough", your partner is likely to win. No complaints, but I only won because Oreo gave me the win by boosting opposition when they knew winter quarters was coming. They could easily have instead focused on setting up to build more forts for the final campaign, and I'm not sure I would have won in that case; I was stretched extremely thin and the British could well have racked up the rebellion causalities in the final year to deny me the victory.

    I found this a bit less straightforward than the other two COINs I've played a bit of (Fire in the Lake and Distant Plain); both of those have a much more obvious push-and-pull dynamic, insofar as in both games, pursuing your own victory conditions usually results in indirectly harming your ally and helping one of the opponents (e.g; the South Vietnamese and the Afghans both want to skim US/coalition resources off the top, but doing so generates opposition which helps the Vietcong/Taliban). This doesn't seem to have that element though, which really makes it easier for your ally to throw you the game; I guess I could have been making life easier for the Indians by diverting Patriot troops, but it was never obvious to me how helpful I was being. It was also strange that a couple of my actions could produce Patriot forts, which isn't really in my best interest if I'm trying to win.

    Hedgethorn on
  • A Half Eaten OreoA Half Eaten Oreo Registered User regular
    In my mind I wasn’t in a good position to go village hunting and felt you were in a good enough position that by not winning this winter I was prolonging the game but the outcome would be the same. So I felt 2nd is good enough. At least the British oppressors are gone!

    The build a fort action from the French does seem really cool. To hurt the French I think i wanted to get more continentals into the meat grinder earlier.

  • A Half Eaten OreoA Half Eaten Oreo Registered User regular
    I'd love to play again and try either the Indians of the French,

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    A little later than expected, but let's do this!

    @TheColonel and @Hedgethorn for faction preferences. I'm going with --

    1. British
    2. Patriots
    3. French
    4. Indians

  • TheColonelTheColonel ChicagolandRegistered User regular
    I'm up for any of them, so random or use me to fill whatever opening is left.

  • HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    I'm really fine with whatever as well. I can take Patriots if Oreo and TheColonel want to split up French and Indians between them.

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 12
    Let's do me as British, Oreo as Indians, Hedgethorn as Patriots, and TheColonel as French. That way we also mix up the "teams."

    I'll put up a new thread with the new start tomorrow morning!

    admanb on
    ElvenshaeHedgethornTheColonel
  • TheColonelTheColonel ChicagolandRegistered User regular
    Thanks! Looking forward to it!

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    OH SHIIIIIIIT HERE WE GO. Imgur is failing to upload the map image so just go back to page 1 for the starting map.

    "Common Sense"

    During the Summer of 1776, Thomas Paine (anonymously) wrote
    this 48-page pamphlet printed by Robert Bell. 120,000 copies were
    sold in the first three months. The pamphlet was targeted at the
    common colonist rather than elites. It is believed that most colonists
    were “on the fence” regarding independence. After “Common Sense”
    was distributed, things changed dramatically.


    9TNLV5z.png

    British Resources: 5
    Patriot Resources: 2
    French Resources: 5
    Indian Resources: 0

    Total Support: 3
    Total Opposition: 5

    Cumulative British Casualties (CBC): 1
    Cumulative Rebellion Casualties (CRC): 3
    French Prep: 9

    @Hedgethorn to start us out!


  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    BTW I'm using the Period Events set up so we'll likely see a similar event trend, but there are more event than you use in any period so we should see some new stuff.

  • HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    Patriots play the Event.

    Shift Boston to Active Opposition and place two Propaganda markers there.
    Shift Charles Town to Passive Opposition and place two Propaganda markers there.

    @admanb is next eligible for Command+Special Ability.

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    British Battle + Skirmish

    Skirmish in NYC, removing the Continental there.
    Battle in New York, spending 1 resource.

    British activate no WP, FL=6. Patriots have no options, FL=3.

    Defender LL = +1 regulars, +1 underground, +1 leader, -1 Washington
    Attacker LL = +1 leader

    Geth, roll 2d3 for British
    Geth, roll 1d3 for Patriots

    British:
    2d3 2 [2d3=1, 1]
    Patriots:
    1d3 2 [1d3=2]

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    *facepalm*

    ElvenshaeTheColonelHedgethorn
  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    So there's the 6% chance of that completely fucking up. Patriots lose two Continentals while the British lose one Tory and one Regular. Patriots are the defender so they win, Washington doubles the shift so New York goes to active opp.

    @Hedgethorn to free Rally in one space.

  • A Half Eaten OreoA Half Eaten Oreo Registered User regular
    Stupid Washington and his fighting retreats. We could also blame Hamilton for stealing our cannons!

    ElvenshaeTheColonel
  • TheColonelTheColonel ChicagolandRegistered User regular
    The British are cursed I tell you.

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Sorry it was a 7.4% chance.

    Boy that really deflated me.

  • HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    edited September 13
    Patriots Rally in Massachusetts for free: add 3 militia.

    Sorry, nix that; I hadn't looked at the upcoming event. Let's instead Rally in Virginia, adding 1 militia.

    Hedgethorn on
  • HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    @TheColonel is first eligible on the next card.

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    As a matter of complete self-interest I'll note that turning Tories into Militia is not beneficial to the French, since Tories are one of your best source of easy casualties.

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    UAEAYPq.jpg

    7xSeY6u.png

    British Resources: 4
    Patriot Resources: 2
    French Resources: 5
    Indian Resources: 0

    Total Support: 3
    Total Opposition: 11

    Cumulative British Casualties (CBC): 3
    Cumulative Rebellion Casualties (CRC): 6
    French Prep: 11

    @TheColonel

  • TheColonelTheColonel ChicagolandRegistered User regular
    Command and Special Activity
    Roderigue Hortalez Et Cie - Spend 3 to give the Patriots 2 resources.

    Preparer La Guerre
    Move 3 Regulars from Unavailable to Available

    @A Half Eaten Oreo for Limited Command or Event

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Roderigue works the other way -- you spend X and give X+1. :)

  • TheColonelTheColonel ChicagolandRegistered User regular
    Oh well even better, spend 3 give 4. Got it.

    Hedgethorn
  • A Half Eaten OreoA Half Eaten Oreo Registered User regular
    Event in Philadelphia.

    Map probably needs update @admanb.

    @Hedgethorn is next to act.

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    VASSAL has started saving the map at 13mb+ instead of the 8-9 it was doing before, so I have to crop it before uploading to imgur. Because fuck me I guess.

    elHocOk.jpg

    orlgi08.png

    British Resources: 4
    Patriot Resources: 6
    French Resources: 2
    Indian Resources: 0

    Total Support: 3
    Total Opposition: 11

    Cumulative British Casualties (CBC): 3
    Cumulative Rebellion Casualties (CRC): 6
    French Prep: 14

    @Hedgethorn

  • HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    Patriots Rally, paying 6 resources:
    - 1 Militia in Pennsylvania
    - 1 Militia in Maryland/Delaware
    - 1 Militia in Connecticut/Rhode Island
    - 1 Militia in South Carolina
    - 1 Militia in North Carolina
    - 1 Militia in Virginia

    Then, Persuasion in North Carolina, Massachusetts, and Connecticut/Rhode Island, placing a Propaganda marker in each.

    Patriots resources = 3.

    @admanb for Limited Command or Event.

    Elvenshae
  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    British Muster, paying 1 resource to:
    - Place 6 Regulars in Virginia
    - Place 2 Tories in Virginia
    - Replace 2 Tories and a Regular with a Fort in Virginia

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    kmGWKXa.jpg

    BBrqABR.png

    British Resources: 3
    Patriot Resources: 3
    French Resources: 2
    Indian Resources: 0

    Total Support: 3
    Total Opposition: 11

    Cumulative British Casualties (CBC): 3
    Cumulative Rebellion Casualties (CRC): 6
    French Prep: 14

    @TheColonel

  • TheColonelTheColonel ChicagolandRegistered User regular
    Pass

  • TheColonelTheColonel ChicagolandRegistered User regular
  • HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    Passing when first eligible, when you're last eligible on the next card? That's a curious play. +2 resources for passing is nice, but Prepare for War would have made you eligible to enter the game.

Sign In or Register to comment.