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Fuck De Beers!

sdrawkcaB emaNsdrawkcaB emaN regular
edited May 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
Actually, I know very little about the diamond/jewelry industry, but what little I have heard seems quite negative. Like recently I heard that diamonds are, in fact, not very rare, as minerals go, but rather just have a very tightly-controlled supply, because the few companies that mine them are practically in collusion. Is this true?

Also, like everyone else, I've heard of this whole "blood diamond" business, but know very little about it.

Educate me, D&D!

sdrawkcaB emaN on
«1345

Posts

  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    Yes, diamonds are abundant, but the supply is cut back.

    Now that they can make them artificially for almost nothing the diamond companies are trying to play up the mystique of "natural" diamonds as though they are different and more special.

    It is funny to watch.

    Shinto on
  • chickenmaniachickenmania Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Shinto wrote: »
    It is funny to see it work.

    fixed?

    chickenmania on
    Nerds.
  • sdrawkcaB emaNsdrawkcaB emaN regular
    edited May 2007
    Shinto wrote: »
    It is funny to see it work.

    fixed?

    Yeah, I have a feeling people will eat that shit up.

    After all, most people can't distinguish between diamond and diamond-lookalikes, but they still prefer diamonds. Mostly because they're status symbols. It seems to me that it has nothing to do with the intrinsic value of the material, aesthetic or otherwise -- it's about status. If people start marketing cheap, artificial diamonds, people will still prefer "real" diamonds, because those will be the expensive ones.

    It's like the things we do to get bigger e-penises, but even stupider.

    At least artificial diamonds will allow for all sorts of technical applications that have been stifled up to this point.

    sdrawkcaB emaN on
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    Shinto wrote: »
    It is funny to see it work.

    fixed?

    As someone who never buys diamonds, I can only laugh.

    Shinto on
  • sdrawkcaB emaNsdrawkcaB emaN regular
    edited May 2007
    Shinto wrote: »
    Shinto wrote: »
    It is funny to see it work.

    fixed?

    As someone who never buys diamonds, I can only laugh.

    No kidding.

    I want to find a girl who would prefer artificial diamonds, because she's a big honkin' nerd.

    sdrawkcaB emaN on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Aemilius wrote: »
    Shinto wrote: »
    It is funny to see it work.

    fixed?

    Yeah, I have a feeling people will eat that shit up.

    After all, most people can't distinguish between diamond and diamond-lookalikes, but they still prefer diamonds. Mostly because they're status symbols. It seems to me that it has nothing to do with the intrinsic value of the material, aesthetic or otherwise -- it's about status. If people start marketing cheap, artificial diamonds, people will still prefer "real" diamonds, because those will be the expensive ones.

    It's like the things we do to get bigger e-penises, but even stupider.

    At least artificial diamonds will allow for all sorts of technical applications that have been stifled up to this point.

    One of De Beer's smartest moves was they got Hollywood to start selling the image of dimaonds as a status symbol and as part of the marriage ritual. It got very ingrained in our culture by the entertainment industry and stuck since.

    nexuscrawler on
  • RoundBoyRoundBoy Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    My wife just bought a 'lab created' saphire ring / earing / necklace set .. all 'real' sahpires, vore very very cheap.

    If the only difference between 'expensive' and 'cheap' is 'ground for millions of years' and 'created in a week' then consider this my resignation, DeBeers.

    i absofuckinglutely refuse to spend any kind of significant change on diamonds and their kin... simply because they are so artificially high.

    RoundBoy on
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  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    Aemilius wrote: »
    Shinto wrote: »
    Shinto wrote: »
    It is funny to see it work.

    fixed?

    As someone who never buys diamonds, I can only laugh.

    No kidding.

    I want to find a girl who would prefer artificial diamonds, because she's a big honkin' nerd.

    My wife actually isn't really into jewlery at all. I bought her stuff the first year or two we were together, but she never wore it really. So I'm off the hook for that thank God.

    Shinto on
  • taerictaeric Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2007
    You know, knowing all of this doesn't help when you know that is what your girl wants. Have you ever seen someone trying to explain how diamonds shouldn't be that special?

    And it seems that people can get pretty mean about this shit. My girlfriend claims she can pretty accurately guess what someone makes based on the ring they are wearing. That freak'n baffles me. (As in, why would you want to do that?)

    taeric on
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    taeric wrote: »
    You know, knowing all of this doesn't help when you know that is what your girl wants. Have you ever seen someone trying to explain how diamonds shouldn't be that special?

    And it seems that people can get pretty mean about this shit. My girlfriend claims she can pretty accurately guess what someone makes based on the ring they are wearing. That freak'n baffles me. (As in, why would you want to do that?)

    She sounds wonderful.

    Shinto on
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Yea, I'm pretty sure no one cares about the diamond itself. It's a pretty rock, oooh, how useless. A piece of plastic could do the same thing. People only care about the "hey, my boyfriend/husband/fiance spent 3 months salary on this ring for me, and that's how I know he loves me".


    Funny/Scary/Related quote: http://www.overheardinnewyork.com/archives/010127.html

    Man, I hate people like that.

    Scooter on
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    RoundBoy wrote: »
    My wife just bought a 'lab created' saphire ring / earing / necklace set .. all 'real' sahpires, vore very very cheap.

    If the only difference between 'expensive' and 'cheap' is 'ground for millions of years' and 'created in a week' then consider this my resignation, DeBeers.

    Far as I know the only real difference between synthetic and natural diamonds is that the synthetic ones tend not to have flaws.

    Tastyfish on
  • jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I got lucky. My wife did want a diamond on her engagement ring but she didn't want a huge one or a special cut. She wouldn't even have balked at a synthetic (if I'd known about them at the time). Her criteria were that the ring should be white gold, the diamond should not be square cut, and that I not go broke buying it.

    That being said, I got her a 1/4 carat diamond. The jeweler insists it looks more like a 1/3, but I don't care. It's got good clarity and my wife likes to wear it.

    She even said "I'd rather we save some money and go on a nice honeymoon than you buy me a huge ring. I'd probably just break it anyway." So we went on an Alaskan cruise, she got her diamond, and we managed not to go broke in the process.

    The only "down side" I can see is that taeric's girlfriend will assume I don't make very much money. Actually, that's not a down side. If she's going to judge me based on the size and price of ring I bought for a person that's not her then she can fuck right off.

    jclast on
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  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    My brother is a jewelcrafter.
    He does make fun of the people who want that special diamond.
    Yes it is a tightly controled market for diamonds.


    He did make his wife her wedding ring. I don't have a picture of it but it is an impressive yet sutble ring.

    Brainleech on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Scooter wrote: »
    Yea, I'm pretty sure no one cares about the diamond itself. It's a pretty rock, oooh, how useless. A piece of plastic could do the same thing. People only care about the "hey, my boyfriend/husband/fiance spent 3 months salary on this ring for me, and that's how I know he loves me".


    Funny/Scary/Related quote: http://www.overheardinnewyork.com/archives/010127.html

    Man, I hate people like that.

    Actually, as far as the actual visual quality of a diamond no piece of plastic can replicate it, and even CZ or white sapphires only come close. And while it may just seem like something worthless and pretty, newsflash: we don't all wear nondescript grey jumpsuits for a reason.

    Luckily I have one of those rare women who doesn't really care about diamonds because they're expensive, and is excited about the idea of buying nothing but artificially created ones from now on. Something about knowing nobody had their hands cut off so you could look pretty and knowing you aren't blowing a huge load of money to make some cartel even richer floats her boat, so I'm thanking my lucky stars.
    The only "down side" I can see is that taeric's girlfriend will assume I don't make very much money. Actually, that's not a down side. If she's going to judge me based on the size and price of ring I bought for a person that's not her then she can fuck right off.

    mcdermott on
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    We just got matching gold bands. Good enough.

    Shinto on
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
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    Cantido on
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  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    So just to clarify, these created diamonds are exactly the same as ancient but still created diamonds? No difference? Man I thought Diamonds were meant to be all bad ass and shiznit. But makes sense, doesn't it just take a load of pressure?

    DarkWarrior on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    So just to clarify, these created diamonds are exactly the same as ancient but still created diamonds? No difference? Man I thought Diamonds were meant to be all bad ass and shiznit. But makes sense, doesn't it just take a load of pressure?

    From what I understand, most "created" diamonds can be differentiated from natural ones by somebody who knows what they're doing and has the proper equipment...but to the layperson are indistinguishable. Some new method is either being used or just being developed that creates diamonds that are discernible from natural ones only by their lack of flaws.

    Sadly, I'm confident that De Beers and others will still have no problem spinning those as "less special," possibly even referring to the idea that they're "too perfect."

    mcdermott on
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2007
    Aemilius wrote: »
    Also, like everyone else, I've heard of this whole "blood diamond" business, but know very little about it.

    Diamonds sold to fund a war, generally. Some diamonds are certified "blood-free" or whatever, but that doesn't change the fact that the money from their sale still goes to the same people that also profit from blood diamonds.

    Doc on
  • NanaNana Fuzzy Little Yeti Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I remember watching a documentry on diamonds a few years back, and they said some lab created diamonds would glow under fluorescent lighting.
    The whole thing might have been propaganda though, because I remember them portraying the artifical diamond business as real shady, while nothing was said about all the crap that goes on to get real diamonds.
    Is there any truth to "glowing" fake diamonds? Also Roundboy, where did you get the artificial sapphires at? I didn't know that they were making artificial versions of other jems, I'd like to check out some cheap pink sapphires.

    Nana on
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  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    My grandmother owns land with diamonds somewhere in Ghana. Of course none of the diamonds found so far are worth anything so I to make all my money the hard way. Damn you nature.

    Malkor on
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  • 3lwap03lwap0 Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Aemilius wrote: »
    Also, like everyone else, I've heard of this whole "blood diamond" business, but know very little about it.

    I've always called them conflict diamonds, but basically - African countries in the middle of a civil war need money to buy arms with, and thus, mine diamonds to fuel their sometimes clandestine efforts. Some notable countries on the list are Angola, and Seirra Leone. The armies also pretty much conscript the nearby citizens into slave labor, and make them mine the rocks. All in all, it's pretty fucked up.

    3lwap0 on
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    3lwap0 wrote: »
    Aemilius wrote: »
    Also, like everyone else, I've heard of this whole "blood diamond" business, but know very little about it.

    I've always called them conflict diamonds, but basically - African countries in the middle of a civil war need money to buy arms with, and thus, mine diamonds to fuel their sometimes clandestine efforts. Some notable countries on the list are Angola, and Seirra Leone. The armies also pretty much conscript the nearby citizens into slave labor, and make them mine the rocks. All in all, it's pretty fucked up.

    Just a continuation of the basic political/economic dynamic in Africa for the last 800 or 900 years since steady trade routes were established.

    Shinto on
  • FawkesFawkes __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    Nothing says I love you like a lump of carbon mined by wage slaves in Angola

    Who says games never teach you anything?

    Fawkes on
  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Da Beers!

    bears.jpg

    Sorry, couldn't resist.

    Anyways. Lab created diamonds are still expensive, typically not made in "white" but rather opting for more exotic colors like "canary yellow" (which is ugly as hell if you ask me), and it is very hard to find a seller of for real man-made diamond jewelry. There are a TON of places out there right now that sell moisannette and cubic zirconia stones marketed as "lab created diamond-gemstones" and other deceptive monikers.

    As it stands you are still better off going to De Beers and bleeding 3 months salary out of your asshole. At least you won't be getting scammed into buying an overpriced lump of zircon.

    AbsoluteZero on
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  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Nana wrote: »
    I remember watching a documentry on diamonds a few years back, and they said some lab created diamonds would glow under fluorescent lighting.
    The whole thing might have been propaganda though, because I remember them portraying the artifical diamond business as real shady, while nothing was said about all the crap that goes on to get real diamonds.
    Is there any truth to "glowing" fake diamonds? Also Roundboy, where did you get the artificial sapphires at? I didn't know that they were making artificial versions of other jems, I'd like to check out some cheap pink sapphires.

    They glow under a florescent light because they have no flaws, apparently. The crystal structure is so perfect that it fluoresces, or something like that. I dunno the specifics. Theoretically, a "real" diamond could, too, but it would be ridiculously rare.

    Daedalus on
  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    i just can't wait for the synthetics to really take off so the commodity price of diamonds bottoms out. Diamonds are fucking amazing as utilities and i'd love not have to spend an arm and a leg for a good diamond tipped drill bit and diamond'd file

    dlinfiniti on
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  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    So does anyone know the details of how the cartel is enforced? It seems that the amount of cheating against the cartel is lower than in the case of opec. Which is suprising since it would seem to be harder to monitor production, movement or sales of diamonds than of oil.

    lowlylowlycook on
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  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2007
    At least you won't be getting scammed into buying an overpriced lump of zircon.

    As opposed to an overpriced lump of carbon that looks identical to the untrained eye? How is that any better?

    Doc on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    There was an article in Wired about artificial diamonds a few years ago, and they profiled two different methods, one of which could, in conjunction with technology for injecting borax into them, be used to make diamond processors, instead of silicon.

    One of the methods made diamonds that any jeweler could tell were fakes simply by looking at, because they didn't have any flaws. The other method required a machine costing in the mid-to-high tens of thousands of dollars to do a chemical analysis to determine that they weren't natural diamonds. De Beers was looking into getting these machines out to people as fast as humanly possible.

    Thanatos on
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    I think the idea of diamonds that glow is kind of a cool improvement.

    Shinto on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    So does anyone know the details of how the cartel is enforced? It seems that the amount of cheating against the cartel is lower than in the case of opec. Which is suprising since it would seem to be harder to monitor production, movement or sales of diamonds than of oil.
    De Beers isn't known for their subtlety, or unyielding respect for the law. From what I understand, cheating is generally responded to by a couple of very large gentlemen showing up at your door, and explaining to you why that's a bad idea.

    Thanatos on
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    One of the methods made diamonds that any jeweler could tell were fakes simply by looking at, because they didn't have any flaws. The other method required a machine costing in the mid-to-high tens of thousands of dollars to do a chemical analysis to determine that they weren't natural diamonds. De Beers was looking into getting these machines out to people as fast as humanly possible.

    See? This is comedy.

    Shinto on
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    So, wait, what's the downside to a diamond with no flaws, again? Sounds like that's the kind of thing you could hit with a sledgehammer without breaking it.
    Maybe I'm missing something here.

    Daedalus on
  • FawkesFawkes __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    I'm not entirely sure why people depressed by the international diamond market don't just, y'know, not buy diamonds (for jewelry at least). Even in this thread a lot of the discussion seems to be natural vs. manmade diamonds, instead of diamond vs. ...cake.

    Has the additional benefit that if woman X gets all huffy and decides not to marry you because you didn't buy her carbon, hey presto one free screening process to weed out shallow, materialistic potential mates who clearly don't care for you much.

    Fawkes on
  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Doc wrote: »
    At least you won't be getting scammed into buying an overpriced lump of zircon.

    As opposed to an overpriced lump of carbon that looks identical to the untrained eye? How is that any better?

    As I understand it a diamond is supposed to demonstrate that you would work your little ass off for the hand of the woman you love.

    Plus, status symbol, etc.

    AbsoluteZero on
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  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Why pay for a De Beers diamond when you can give her a diamond made of grandma?

    Hachface on
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2007
    As I understand it a diamond is supposed to demonstrate that you would work your little ass off for the hand of the woman you love.

    To idiots, maybe. But I don't really care what they think.

    Doc on
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2007
    Fawkes wrote: »
    Has the additional benefit that if woman X gets all huffy and decides not to marry you because you didn't buy her carbon, hey presto one free screening process to weed out shallow, materialistic potential mates who clearly don't care for you much.

    Doc on
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