As someone who basically stopped following things immediately after TI8, how had the pro meta gotten stale/boring?
Due to nerfs there were very few viable hard carries so most games had morph and terrorblade.
Though arc warden came on at the end there. And five axe and four centaur. Idk, it was still changing even at the end. TB needed to go though.
Still nothing can be as bad as the troll/sniper meta from a few years ago.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited November 2018
Funny thing is that TB is almost unchanged. He'll probably lose or gain some relative power just based on the system changes, but as far as direct patch to him? It's pretty small. Sunder no longer pierces BKB, but a lot of stuff got that change. So everyone is kind of taking that nerf together.
Some of this other stuff seems hilarious. Phase Boots on Lone Druid bear now? With the associated Lone Druid changes? I think you're going to see a lot of Sylla.
As someone who basically stopped following things immediately after TI8, how had the pro meta gotten stale/boring?
Due to nerfs there were very few viable hard carries so most games had morph and terrorblade.
It wasn't even just hard carries, although that was the most extreme part. The pro meta had stagnated so much that you could pretty much pick from one consistent pool of 20 heroes and cover both teams in any given match. Teams were picking their carry in the first phase because there were so few viable options and the ones that you could pick were basically uncounterable. Reading the patch notes today actually reminded me that some heroes existed. Remember Night Stalker? Or Timbersaw? Or any support that isn't Bane?
I think a good warning sign of a boring meta is when Ogre Magi becomes a valid pick as a core. I've seen it happen twice now, and both times they made big changes to shake things up almost immediately.
1) Silence 2) Books must be returned by the last date shown 3) Do not interfere with the nature of causality
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
New Tusk looks fun. I want to eush a Drums and just take part in ALL the Snowball drivebys. Also, new Atos seems kinda legit on him? Dunno, imma make stupid builds on him because that new skull is kewl.
As someone who basically stopped following things immediately after TI8, how had the pro meta gotten stale/boring?
Due to nerfs there were very few viable hard carries so most games had morph and terrorblade.
It wasn't even just hard carries, although that was the most extreme part. The pro meta had stagnated so much that you could pretty much pick from one consistent pool of 20 heroes and cover both teams in any given match. Teams were picking their carry in the first phase because there were so few viable options and the ones that you could pick were basically uncounterable. Reading the patch notes today actually reminded me that some heroes existed. Remember Night Stalker? Or Timbersaw? Or any support that isn't Bane?
I think a good warning sign of a boring meta is when Ogre Magi becomes a valid pick as a core. I've seen it happen twice now, and both times they made big changes to shake things up almost immediately.
I just really hated how the last couple metas have been insanely economy focused. Team fights don't matter, early game roaming doesn't matter; just secure as much farm on your scaling cores as you can. And if you have the gold advantage and haven't stuck yourself with a mid game draft, you're probably going to win barring a throw.
Dark_Side on
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KlatuAussie Aussie AussieOi Oi OiRegistered Userregular
edited November 2018
Jesus.. that was a short turn around for 7.20b. Was Meepo dumpstering games that hard he needed to be hit like this?
Qualifiers for the next major (in Chongqing, CN) are on now.
Regions SA, CIS, and SEA have concluded, and NA, EU, and CN qualis are on today and the next couple days.
But, drama.
Apparently paiN X (they're not that name anymore, but it's the same team) won the SA quali, but have since been disqualified because, essentially, they were trying to game the system by competing in SA without actually living or playing there.
I guess, if what valve says in their statement is correct -- namely that this was communicated to the team months ago, and they ignored it -- then I would agree with that decision. The region lines have been blurring for several years, and it was kind of inevitable that someone would eventually push it too far.
Amusingly, the team that now inherits the qualified spot, Thunder Predator, was disqualified from the TI8 qualifiers when one of their players was found to be using scripts/macros during the qualifier.
According to a statement made by PPD earlier, Valve's statements to teams were generally along the lines of "if you think you're gaming the system, its probably unacceptable." That's not exactly clear communication, especially if done across language barriers.
Also it's hilarious they made that statement within 24 hours of PPD's post about the subject, but they still haven't made any comment about multiple players being banned from a DPC tournament because the Chinese government wants them banned (admittedly, for being racists, so I don't have a ton of sympathy for them).
edit: sorry, more reading done, I didn't realize that had actually gone through. Yeah, again, I don't feel that bad about it. Don't be racist.
I don't feel bad for the players themselves, but I do think it's pretty dumb for Valve to cede control of their own tournament structure to local organizers, and it especially damages my confidence in a "fair" TI9 if Chinese officials are allowed to disqualify teams or players from contention (either in qualifying tournaments or theoretically, the event itself). Like, if Valve straight up said "we discussed this with local organizers and agree with their decision to ban the players", I'd be fine with that decision, but Valve basically shrugging because they don't want to piss off people is a lot worse.
Just tried out the new Rubick. He's still fun like always!
A teammate suggested I max Arcane Supremacy first, and I had to put it politely that I still think Fade Bolt would be the obvious first spell to max because of...well, really all of the reasons.
I'm sure I'll adapt but I really hate AM's counterspell already. It feels almost punitive to supports like Lion (the hero I played). Once he buys his first or second damage item I simply couldn't afford to exist in the same part of the map as AM and he didn't have to slow down for a linkens or bkb to make that happen, and that's bullshit for a hero that's already a late-game monster. It feels like old-school Slark or Badman Spectre: you have to play a boring, super careful game from about minute 15 until the very end of the game. There's no such thing as timings, just endless danger.
Good ol' DotA 2 community, going to bat for the right to be racist without consequence.
Eh, I think sanctions are fine, but when you have a full on country ban for somewhere that houses probably a third of the tournaments there needs to be some middle ground.
This all goes back to Valve being asleep at the wheel on regulation. A standard around punishment would be good as it varies wildly country to country and tourney to tourney.
Racism should be stamped out,but don't think this is fully the way to do it.
Good ol' DotA 2 community, going to bat for the right to be racist without consequence.
To be fair *sigh*, this is after tournament organizers said "he's not banned, but he'll probably be murdered if he attends and we'll cancel the tournament otherwise", so...y'know, escalation.
I ate an engineer
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
That was a good video @Musicool , good for giving me all the broken stuff from 7.20 lol.
Good ol' DotA 2 community, going to bat for the right to be racist without consequence.
To be fair *sigh*, this is after tournament organizers said "he's not banned, but he'll probably be murdered if he attends and we'll cancel the tournament otherwise", so...y'know, escalation.
Man literally no one in this situation comes out looking good.
Hey guys, you don't need to read this I just have to get this off my chest because I just played a DotA match that encapsulates why even though I love this game I'm struggling more and more to boot it up and play it.
So it was an Unranked match and I picked Rubick because I like Rubick. And our team picked some...odd picks. Undying mid, DK safe with me, WR and Zeus off. Against a more balanced team of Sniper, TB, Silencer, CM and I forget the last one. I was concerned, and then I remembered this s Unranked in 2018 - anything can work and everybody can pick what they want. So whatever.
And we do alright early game. I make plenty of mistakes sure.
But then the game creeps longer and longer. Every push we make on high ground, the rest of our team finds some reason to back off. We take roshes belatedly. We smoke and find picks, then sort of piss that advantage away. And I still had a good time! I fed a few times sure, but I remember quite clearly the cool shit I did, including a late-game teamfight where I did all the right things and secured the team fight and 3 kills. It felt good and I had fun in those moments.
But then I remembered why it's harder and harder to play DotA these days. Every cool thing we did, nothing much happened. We had our lanes pushed out and mid lane wave was practically knocking on the door of their open rax and we get a pick...and the foursome (who I figured out from their behaviour WERE a foursome) go rosh instead of just taking a free rax or at least pressuring for bb. And this whole time I feel like the most irrelevant player in this 60 minute debacle. I know that we're going to lose at super late if we continue to do nothing. Even scrappy pub DotA eventually boils down to that. And we'd done a hell of a job to stay in it for over an hour. But after the dozens of times we'd gained an advantage, nothing was happening, and I was a late-game Rubick.
At some point, I didn't want to be there anymore. I genuinely considered just rq'ing, but I hate when people do that. But I felt like an audience member for 9 other players who had more to do than me. I don't want to be one of those DotA players who asks for Dota to be less Dota-like and more like all the other games. There's a real beauty to DotA, and part of it is in the potential for crazy 90 minute games and meaningful buybacks and rosh fights and shit. I've been in those games and I still remember them because they were so goshdarn beautiful, like the Mona Lisa. But I've seen the Mona Lisa. I flew to Paris (unrelated) and then to the Louvre and I waited in line. I don't feel like going through that whole rigmarole again just to see an actually quite small and ordinary-looking painting (to my amateur eyes). And I'm beginning to feel that way about DotA as well.
My problem with Dota is my limited gaming time. I love Dota and everything it can be, but it's a game for someone with far more free time than me. I don't want to play two matches of Dota per night and go to bed frustrated because I had a feeder in one and the other one was an 80 minute techies game. That's not how I want to spend my time now.
My problem with Dota is my limited gaming time. I love Dota and everything it can be, but it's a game for someone with far more free time than me. I don't want to play two matches of Dota per night and go to bed frustrated because I had a feeder in one and the other one was an 80 minute techies game. That's not how I want to spend my time now.
This is my problem. And that does not count the 5+ minute queue times, pick time and the inevitable pauses for DQ's.
So there's a pretty fun and addictive Arcade custom map called Auto Chess and can be described as multiplayer deck building. It feels and plays like the old WC3 custom games but this one has more depth.
I find antimage a strong early pick and if you get some druids early you can catapult yourself to lategame pretty easy as when you have 2, it's only 2 to combine vs 3 and with 4 you can do that again to 3 star.
They also sell for more than you bought them for with this method
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As of this post, he’s been streaming for over six hours. He’s on Pangolier. Jesus.
Due to nerfs there were very few viable hard carries so most games had morph and terrorblade.
Though arc warden came on at the end there. And five axe and four centaur. Idk, it was still changing even at the end. TB needed to go though.
Still nothing can be as bad as the troll/sniper meta from a few years ago.
Some of this other stuff seems hilarious. Phase Boots on Lone Druid bear now? With the associated Lone Druid changes? I think you're going to see a lot of Sylla.
It wasn't even just hard carries, although that was the most extreme part. The pro meta had stagnated so much that you could pretty much pick from one consistent pool of 20 heroes and cover both teams in any given match. Teams were picking their carry in the first phase because there were so few viable options and the ones that you could pick were basically uncounterable. Reading the patch notes today actually reminded me that some heroes existed. Remember Night Stalker? Or Timbersaw? Or any support that isn't Bane?
I think a good warning sign of a boring meta is when Ogre Magi becomes a valid pick as a core. I've seen it happen twice now, and both times they made big changes to shake things up almost immediately.
Weatherman Purge is the best Purge.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
dota2.com/news/updates/46110/
lots of meepo nerfs of course
I just really hated how the last couple metas have been insanely economy focused. Team fights don't matter, early game roaming doesn't matter; just secure as much farm on your scaling cores as you can. And if you have the gold advantage and haven't stuck yourself with a mid game draft, you're probably going to win barring a throw.
edit: nm, just looked and yes, yes he was.
Ogre Multicast working on Hand of Midas, getting 3x gold is fun.
Lions ult stacking damage, hitting AoE with 1500 pure is insane.
We might start seeing some mid Lion again!
Regions SA, CIS, and SEA have concluded, and NA, EU, and CN qualis are on today and the next couple days.
But, drama.
Apparently paiN X (they're not that name anymore, but it's the same team) won the SA quali, but have since been disqualified because, essentially, they were trying to game the system by competing in SA without actually living or playing there.
Valve statement is here
I guess, if what valve says in their statement is correct -- namely that this was communicated to the team months ago, and they ignored it -- then I would agree with that decision. The region lines have been blurring for several years, and it was kind of inevitable that someone would eventually push it too far.
Amusingly, the team that now inherits the qualified spot, Thunder Predator, was disqualified from the TI8 qualifiers when one of their players was found to be using scripts/macros during the qualifier.
Also the rest of the ppd post (here) is fairly squarely in the valve camp on this.
http://blog.dota2.com/2018/11/the-major-and-professional-dota-players/
https://www.foxsportsasia.com/esports/dota2/983487/filipino-dota-2-players-skem-and-kuku-banned-from-chongqing-major-for-using-racist-language-against-chinese-players/
edit: sorry, more reading done, I didn't realize that had actually gone through. Yeah, again, I don't feel that bad about it. Don't be racist.
I don't feel bad for the players themselves, but I do think it's pretty dumb for Valve to cede control of their own tournament structure to local organizers, and it especially damages my confidence in a "fair" TI9 if Chinese officials are allowed to disqualify teams or players from contention (either in qualifying tournaments or theoretically, the event itself). Like, if Valve straight up said "we discussed this with local organizers and agree with their decision to ban the players", I'd be fine with that decision, but Valve basically shrugging because they don't want to piss off people is a lot worse.
A teammate suggested I max Arcane Supremacy first, and I had to put it politely that I still think Fade Bolt would be the obvious first spell to max because of...well, really all of the reasons.
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
Good ol' DotA 2 community, going to bat for the right to be racist without consequence.
I dunno, maybe I just suck.
Ok, this made me laugh:
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
Eh, I think sanctions are fine, but when you have a full on country ban for somewhere that houses probably a third of the tournaments there needs to be some middle ground.
This all goes back to Valve being asleep at the wheel on regulation. A standard around punishment would be good as it varies wildly country to country and tourney to tourney.
Racism should be stamped out,but don't think this is fully the way to do it.
To be fair *sigh*, this is after tournament organizers said "he's not banned, but he'll probably be murdered if he attends and we'll cancel the tournament otherwise", so...y'know, escalation.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Man literally no one in this situation comes out looking good.
So it was an Unranked match and I picked Rubick because I like Rubick. And our team picked some...odd picks. Undying mid, DK safe with me, WR and Zeus off. Against a more balanced team of Sniper, TB, Silencer, CM and I forget the last one. I was concerned, and then I remembered this s Unranked in 2018 - anything can work and everybody can pick what they want. So whatever.
And we do alright early game. I make plenty of mistakes sure.
But then the game creeps longer and longer. Every push we make on high ground, the rest of our team finds some reason to back off. We take roshes belatedly. We smoke and find picks, then sort of piss that advantage away. And I still had a good time! I fed a few times sure, but I remember quite clearly the cool shit I did, including a late-game teamfight where I did all the right things and secured the team fight and 3 kills. It felt good and I had fun in those moments.
But then I remembered why it's harder and harder to play DotA these days. Every cool thing we did, nothing much happened. We had our lanes pushed out and mid lane wave was practically knocking on the door of their open rax and we get a pick...and the foursome (who I figured out from their behaviour WERE a foursome) go rosh instead of just taking a free rax or at least pressuring for bb. And this whole time I feel like the most irrelevant player in this 60 minute debacle. I know that we're going to lose at super late if we continue to do nothing. Even scrappy pub DotA eventually boils down to that. And we'd done a hell of a job to stay in it for over an hour. But after the dozens of times we'd gained an advantage, nothing was happening, and I was a late-game Rubick.
At some point, I didn't want to be there anymore. I genuinely considered just rq'ing, but I hate when people do that. But I felt like an audience member for 9 other players who had more to do than me. I don't want to be one of those DotA players who asks for Dota to be less Dota-like and more like all the other games. There's a real beauty to DotA, and part of it is in the potential for crazy 90 minute games and meaningful buybacks and rosh fights and shit. I've been in those games and I still remember them because they were so goshdarn beautiful, like the Mona Lisa. But I've seen the Mona Lisa. I flew to Paris (unrelated) and then to the Louvre and I waited in line. I don't feel like going through that whole rigmarole again just to see an actually quite small and ordinary-looking painting (to my amateur eyes). And I'm beginning to feel that way about DotA as well.
hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
This is my problem. And that does not count the 5+ minute queue times, pick time and the inevitable pauses for DQ's.
I just don't have the time
The problem is Turbo sucks.....
There are very little viable heroes and I can push two set's of towers solo by the 10 min mark.
The matches are 20 minutes, play whatever you want. Sure there are some strats that are pretty cancer with the modified pacing.
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
They also sell for more than you bought them for with this method