The trial(s) of [Paul Manafort] - flippin' Friday

So It Goes

Like, I know you're happy to argue about this but assuming Manafort is doing it to make some grander point about prison uniforms is a mistake.

Sleep

Big picture looking at our justice system in total: defendants probably shouldn't be in dehumanizing garb. We should look into changing the legislation behind why that is done, and likely go about changing it.

In the microcosm of this trial where we definitely aren't going to change the practice in the whole justice system: treat him like any other convict.

AngelHedgie

So It Goes wrote: »

Like, I know you're happy to argue about this but assuming Manafort is doing it to make some grander point about prison uniforms is a mistake.

I have no illusions that his request was due to anything but venal self-interest. But that doesn't mean that his position is entirely meritless. Again, I want Manafort to be treated like every other convict is - and I want all convicts to be allowed to appear in court in street clothes, because I don't think you can remove the dehumanizing aspect of prison uniforms.

So It Goes

Got it. We can move on now.

Mild Confusion

Are you against prison uniforms in general, or just in court where their peers judge them?

Cause we still need to distinguish prisoners from prison guards, cooks, medical staff, other support staff, and civilian visitors.

So It Goes

And that's getting outside the scope of this thread, which is why we can go ahead and move on.

MuddBudd

https://www.newsandguts.com/paul-manafort-makes-court-appearance-wheelchair/

Manafort comes into court in a wheelchair, complaining of health issues related to diet.

Manafort’s defense attorney, Kevin Downing, told Judge T.S. Ellis that Manafort’s health has suffered as a result of his incarceration.

“We do think there are significant concerns with Mr. Manafort’s health and much of that has to do with the terms of Mr. Manafort’s confinement,” Downing said, though it was not immediately clear what ailment Manafort has suffered.

I mean, he IS pretty old.

At the same time, I suspect playing for sympathy.

RickRude

That just seem like some ambulance chaser lawyers tactic. Our cruel and unusual punishment of this man used to luxury is suffering as you can see. Just months ago he stood proud in an ostrich jacket, now he's bound to a wheelchair and his depression causes him to wear no color but orange. Can you not see the harm we are doing to this honorable man?

Gaddez

Well I'll say this for the putz: he's certainly diligent in pushing every moronic ploy possible to throw a wrench in the engine of justice.

I suspect that he'll try playing the evil twin card next.

MuddBudd

Gaddez wrote: »

Well I'll say this for the putz: he's certainly diligent in pushing every moronic ploy possible to throw a wrench in the engine of justice.

I suspect that he'll try playing the evil twin card next.

Yeah I'd be more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt if he hadn't just spent the last 6 months trying every weasel maneuver he could.

Brody

I just feel reassured in the fact that Ellis doesn't seem to give a shit, however much he seemed a prick during the trial.

joshofalltrades

Prison conditions are bad?

Ya don’t say.

It’s super weird how right-wing ideologues suddenly turn into pinko commies on the topic of prison reform as soon as they’re convicted.

I’m pretty sure my kid’s fake cough to get out of school is more convincing.

Henroid

MuddBudd wrote: »

https://www.newsandguts.com/paul-manafort-makes-court-appearance-wheelchair/

Manafort comes into court in a wheelchair, complaining of health issues related to diet.

Manafort’s defense attorney, Kevin Downing, told Judge T.S. Ellis that Manafort’s health has suffered as a result of his incarceration.

“We do think there are significant concerns with Mr. Manafort’s health and much of that has to do with the terms of Mr. Manafort’s confinement,” Downing said, though it was not immediately clear what ailment Manafort has suffered.

I mean, he IS pretty old.

At the same time, I suspect playing for sympathy.

Fuck his lawyers for making the effort to put that stunt into play.

Hevach

joshofalltrades wrote: »

Prison conditions are bad?

Ya don’t say.

It’s super weird how right-wing ideologues suddenly turn into pinko commies on the topic of prison reform as soon as they’re convicted.

I’m pretty sure my kid’s fake cough to get out of school is more convincing.

Yeah, this is entirely a case of having a good point, but maybe I don't feel compelled to have that conversation right now.

Jragghen

They're trying TOO hard.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/paul-manafort-shows-court-wheelchair-learns-sentencing-date-n921826

Manafort, appearing visibly grayer, was pushed into court in a wheelchair, missing his right shoe.

There's no way missing a shoe is anything but intentional.

MuddBudd

Jragghen wrote: »

They're trying TOO hard.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/paul-manafort-shows-court-wheelchair-learns-sentencing-date-n921826

Manafort, appearing visibly grayer, was pushed into court in a wheelchair, missing his right shoe.

There's no way missing a shoe is anything but intentional.

I some discussions with people online today, it was suggested that maybe he has gout issues. Which might actually track there. And why diet problems might make him suddenly have issues walking.

I think they are still exaggerating it.

Diplominator

Jragghen wrote: »

They're trying TOO hard.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/paul-manafort-shows-court-wheelchair-learns-sentencing-date-n921826

Manafort, appearing visibly grayer, was pushed into court in a wheelchair, missing his right shoe.

There's no way missing a shoe is anything but intentional.

Anakin...I...I'm too weak. Please, don't let him kill me...

Xaquin

If he has gout, a wheelchair and missing shoe are an absolute necessity

If he has gout

Henroid

Xaquin wrote: »

If he has gout, a wheelchair and missing shoe are an absolute necessity

If he has gout

Would presenting a false medical claim to a judge in court be punishable?

Xaquin

Henroid wrote: »

Xaquin wrote: »

If he has gout, a wheelchair and missing shoe are an absolute necessity

If he has gout

Would presenting a false medical claim to a judge in court be punishable?

No clue, but one would think

Mild Confusion

You could say the shoe’s on the other foot now!

BWAHAHAHAHA!

So It Goes

He probably has something going on but will he and his lawyers play it up absurdly? Yes

Elldren

Xaquin wrote: »

If he has gout, a wheelchair and missing shoe are an absolute necessity

If he has gout

I mean, I got around just fine with crutches and a boot. There’s degrees here and it’s almost certain we are seeing them pushed to an extreme

Gnome-Interruptus

Gout is also curable with some pills and laying off the rich foods and booze iirc. Prison infirmary and dietary restrictions will fix his wagon right quick.

Atomika

Gout is a rich man’s disease gained by eating pâté, brown liquor, and fillet steak 🥩

ahava

and meanwhile my mom has chronic gout that is due to some of the other myriad of medicines that she's on for other health issues.

if she had access to a wheelchair during one of her flare ups, she'd absolutely be in one (but she's a stubborn ox sometimes).

I"m not saying that they're not playing it up, but a bad flare up is a bad flare up and it's not all as plain as day as a rich man's disease.


That being said, screw this man for playing it up.

Sorce

Yeah, as a non-rich dude with Gout, I can see needing a wheelchair and a barefoot because sometimes that flare-up hits you like a ton of bricks. And it is permanent, you get it once you have it for life on a varying basis dependent on your ability to manage it.

Coincidentally, I think dude is playing it up because he has a history of doing similar things in this trial.

Henroid

How fast does it take gout to set in?

Sorce

Within a day or so for me; I've seen others where it's faster though. It's a build up of acid in a specific spot; the body can do that pretty quick.

Alistair Hutton

MuddBudd wrote: »

https://www.newsandguts.com/paul-manafort-makes-court-appearance-wheelchair/

Manafort comes into court in a wheelchair, complaining of health issues related to diet.

Manafort’s defense attorney, Kevin Downing, told Judge T.S. Ellis that Manafort’s health has suffered as a result of his incarceration.

“We do think there are significant concerns with Mr. Manafort’s health and much of that has to do with the terms of Mr. Manafort’s confinement,” Downing said, though it was not immediately clear what ailment Manafort has suffered.

I mean, he IS pretty old.

At the same time, I suspect playing for sympathy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Saunders

The only person to ever recover from Alzheimers.

Coincidentally the diagnosis occured just after he went to jail for a white collar crime and the recovery occurred after he was let out early.

Henroid

Hey so, things are apparently not going well with Manafort. Via ABC news.

Talks between Special Counsel Robert Mueller and former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort have grown increasingly tense over Manafort’s apparent lack of cooperation with the investigation, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter.

Prosecutors from Mueller’s office have been asking Manafort about a wide range of topics in nearly a dozen meetings since Manafort agreed to cooperate in September, sources said, but the Mueller team is “not getting what they want,” said one source with knowledge of the discussions.

The consequences of failing to fully cooperate could be dire when it comes time for Manafort to be sentenced.

It doesn't go into the nature of what isn't being given. Like it's not clear if Manafort oversold what he can offer, or if he's suddenly backing down from sharing what he promised. Either way he's completely fucked if he doesn't change his attitude.

Desktop Hippie

Mueller must be asking about something absolutely Earth-shatteringly enormous if the guy who is facing decades in jail doesn’t want to talk about it.

Fencingsax

Desktop Hippie wrote: »

Mueller must be asking about something absolutely Earth-shatteringly enormous if the guy who is facing decades in jail doesn’t want to talk about it.

Or he really doesn't want to talk about the Russian organized crime he was working with

shryke

Henroid wrote: »

Hey so, things are apparently not going well with Manafort. Via ABC news.

Talks between Special Counsel Robert Mueller and former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort have grown increasingly tense over Manafort’s apparent lack of cooperation with the investigation, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter.

Prosecutors from Mueller’s office have been asking Manafort about a wide range of topics in nearly a dozen meetings since Manafort agreed to cooperate in September, sources said, but the Mueller team is “not getting what they want,” said one source with knowledge of the discussions.

The consequences of failing to fully cooperate could be dire when it comes time for Manafort to be sentenced.

It doesn't go into the nature of what isn't being given. Like it's not clear if Manafort oversold what he can offer, or if he's suddenly backing down from sharing what he promised. Either way he's completely fucked if he doesn't change his attitude.

Who's leaking this?

I can't see what the play for Manafort's people is here. Fishing for a pardon still?

Unknown

This content has been removed.

evilmrhenry

shryke wrote: »

Henroid wrote: »

Hey so, things are apparently not going well with Manafort. Via ABC news.

Talks between Special Counsel Robert Mueller and former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort have grown increasingly tense over Manafort’s apparent lack of cooperation with the investigation, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter.

Prosecutors from Mueller’s office have been asking Manafort about a wide range of topics in nearly a dozen meetings since Manafort agreed to cooperate in September, sources said, but the Mueller team is “not getting what they want,” said one source with knowledge of the discussions.

The consequences of failing to fully cooperate could be dire when it comes time for Manafort to be sentenced.

It doesn't go into the nature of what isn't being given. Like it's not clear if Manafort oversold what he can offer, or if he's suddenly backing down from sharing what he promised. Either way he's completely fucked if he doesn't change his attitude.

Who's leaking this?

I can't see what the play for Manafort's people is here. Fishing for a pardon still?

"multiple sources familiar with the matter", apparently. Also: A spokesperson for the special counsel declined to comment. A spokesperson for Manafort declined to comment. Which does narrow down the choices.

shryke

evilmrhenry wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Henroid wrote: »

Hey so, things are apparently not going well with Manafort. Via ABC news.

Talks between Special Counsel Robert Mueller and former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort have grown increasingly tense over Manafort’s apparent lack of cooperation with the investigation, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter.

Prosecutors from Mueller’s office have been asking Manafort about a wide range of topics in nearly a dozen meetings since Manafort agreed to cooperate in September, sources said, but the Mueller team is “not getting what they want,” said one source with knowledge of the discussions.

The consequences of failing to fully cooperate could be dire when it comes time for Manafort to be sentenced.

It doesn't go into the nature of what isn't being given. Like it's not clear if Manafort oversold what he can offer, or if he's suddenly backing down from sharing what he promised. Either way he's completely fucked if he doesn't change his attitude.

Who's leaking this?

I can't see what the play for Manafort's people is here. Fishing for a pardon still?

"multiple sources familiar with the matter", apparently. Also: A spokesperson for the special counsel declined to comment. A spokesperson for Manafort declined to comment. Which does narrow down the choices.

That all means nothing.

Historically Mueller's people don't leak anything. So who else is leaking this?

silence1186

Henroid wrote: »

Hey so, things are apparently not going well with Manafort. Via ABC news.

Talks between Special Counsel Robert Mueller and former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort have grown increasingly tense over Manafort’s apparent lack of cooperation with the investigation, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter.

Prosecutors from Mueller’s office have been asking Manafort about a wide range of topics in nearly a dozen meetings since Manafort agreed to cooperate in September, sources said, but the Mueller team is “not getting what they want,” said one source with knowledge of the discussions.

The consequences of failing to fully cooperate could be dire when it comes time for Manafort to be sentenced.

It doesn't go into the nature of what isn't being given. Like it's not clear if Manafort oversold what he can offer, or if he's suddenly backing down from sharing what he promised. Either way he's completely fucked if he doesn't change his attitude.

What's the timeline on this? Did Manafort anticipate a post-Sessions DoJ quashing Mueller?

CelestialBadger

shryke wrote: »

evilmrhenry wrote: »

shryke wrote: »

Henroid wrote: »

Hey so, things are apparently not going well with Manafort. Via ABC news.

Talks between Special Counsel Robert Mueller and former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort have grown increasingly tense over Manafort’s apparent lack of cooperation with the investigation, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter.

Prosecutors from Mueller’s office have been asking Manafort about a wide range of topics in nearly a dozen meetings since Manafort agreed to cooperate in September, sources said, but the Mueller team is “not getting what they want,” said one source with knowledge of the discussions.

The consequences of failing to fully cooperate could be dire when it comes time for Manafort to be sentenced.

It doesn't go into the nature of what isn't being given. Like it's not clear if Manafort oversold what he can offer, or if he's suddenly backing down from sharing what he promised. Either way he's completely fucked if he doesn't change his attitude.

Who's leaking this?

I can't see what the play for Manafort's people is here. Fishing for a pardon still?

"multiple sources familiar with the matter", apparently. Also: A spokesperson for the special counsel declined to comment. A spokesperson for Manafort declined to comment. Which does narrow down the choices.

That all means nothing.

Historically Mueller's people don't leak anything. So who else is leaking this?

Maybe they just don't leak *as much* as the rest of the Trump administration?

At one point Jared Kushner and Steve Bannon seemed to be in a high-speed leaking competition.

Undead Scottsman

I'm guessing Trump getting Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court is what started this behavior (if the report is accurate) and Trump firing Sessions clinched it.