I mean he hasnt really ever wrote any of his shows including disenchantment so its weird to blame him specifically for jokes you dont like
He hires the writing staff and gets final say on what goes in and what doesn’t.
I really dont think thats ever been true frankly. Hes good at high concepts but Ive always felt guys like James L Brooks and David X Cohen were the ones that steered the direction of his shows
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
Do you have any thoughts on the criticism of Apu as a stereotype?
Groening: Not really. I’m proud of what we do on the show. And I think it’s a time in our culture where people love to pretend they’re offended.
In the April 8 episode, which addressed the Apu criticism and reignited controversy, what did it mean when Marge said, “Some things will be addressed at a later date,” and Lisa said, “If at all”?
I mean he hasnt really ever wrote any of his shows including disenchantment so its weird to blame him specifically for jokes you dont like
He hires the writing staff and gets final say on what goes in and what doesn’t.
I really dont think thats ever been true frankly. Hes good at high concepts but Ive always felt guys like James L Brooks and David X Cohen were the ones that steered the direction of his shows
You may be right about the day to day here, as it looks like he’s using Josh Weinstein (Mission Hill among other shows) as the show runner. But still, he is an EP and he created the damn thing. His name is all over it. It is fair to criticize him.
Groening is often far more involved in his shows in the beginning. Along with show running the first couple Simpsons seasons he talk about his contributions to futurama in the dvd comentary which yes was the big picture stuff also was a decent share of the early jokes.
But I was using Groening as a metaphor for the wntire crew. I recognize so many writers and producers in the credits and its a an shame that the whole lot of these hotshot amazing writers who defined a generations sense of humor have so erred.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Over the years I have discovered that Groening isn't actually that funny.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I have this impression that Futurama was Groening finding a whole new crew of people to work with, and springboarded off his concepts into something fresh and original
Disenchanted is...all of the same people as Futurama, who have been working together for 20 years
I wish it was a total clean slate, but maybe I’m wrong and Futurama wasn’t that either
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
I don't think there was a whole ton of overlap between Futurama and The Simpsons, but there was some
I have this impression that Futurama was Groening finding a whole new crew of people to work with, and springboarded off his concepts into something fresh and original
Disenchanted is...all of the same people as Futurama, who have been working together for 20 years
I wish it was a total clean slate, but maybe I’m wrong and Futurama wasn’t that either
It wasn't. David X Cohen who received an EP credit on Futurama along with being head-writer worked on the Simpsons starting at season 5. Rich Moore and Gregg Vanzo who directed the Futurama pilot both have previous Simpsons credits with Moore directing more than his share of the classic Simpsons episodes such as "Marge vs the monorail" and "cape fear". The second episodes writer, Ken Keeler, wrote for the simpsons including having the dubious honor of writing "The Principal and the Pauper". The majority of writers end up coming from other sources including many previous writers of "The Critic" but the nucleus of the show was people MG already knew.
I think the only major difference, which is something that I enjoy, is that it gets a lot more story and plot heavy than most of his work towards the end to the point where the finale is almost entirely plot developments and character beats and only a handful of jokes
+1
Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
it's got abbi jacobsen and eric andre, and matt groening still has some cred with me, so I'm at least going to give it a shot
I've been watching Power lately, mostly because I don't like myself very much, however I'm glad I stuck with it long enough to see the scene where 50 Cent's character shoots somebody while riding a bicycle because it was perfect.
I think it says a lot about how the TV landscape has changed that so many people are looking for early-Simpsons or Futurama levels of quality when neither of those shows had particularly beloved first seasons themselves.
+2
GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
I think I might have enjoyed the back half a bit more than anything I enjoyed in Futurama. But A) I'm the dude who just never could get into Futurama for whatever reason and Disenfranchised was also very much a background noise show while I was working so I don't have strong opinions on it.
I think it says a lot about how the TV landscape has changed that so many people are looking for early-Simpsons or Futurama levels of quality when neither of those shows had particularly beloved first seasons themselves.
Simpsons, no, but Futurama was more or less fully-formed right out of the gate
I think it says a lot about how the TV landscape has changed that so many people are looking for early-Simpsons or Futurama levels of quality when neither of those shows had particularly beloved first seasons themselves.
Simpsons, no, but Futurama was more or less fully-formed right out of the gate
The second episode is all the Moon stuff
I was wrong, it starts to get good midway through Season 1 but it still took a while to find its voice. I'd say My Three Suns is the first good episode of the show, although there are definitely funny individual scenes before then.
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GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
I will say I think the more human the body types get and still retain the Groening face, the more uncomfortable it makes me.
I think it says a lot about how the TV landscape has changed that so many people are looking for early-Simpsons or Futurama levels of quality when neither of those shows had particularly beloved first seasons themselves.
That might be true but from my perspective it feels like a lot of people are giving Disenchanted a lot of leeway because its an MG show. I don't think many would be leaping to call it not actually that bad if it weren't for its pedigree. If this were just a new show I don't think we'd be talking about it at all. A few people would have watched the first couple episodes and backed out. Maybe the show isn't as bad as I have been saying but its certainly banal enough that its not really worth anybody's time.
I think Disenchantment is on par with the quality of Futurama, which wasn't that good imo. Futurama was fine but it was never amazing. It was always a "sure, I'll watch it" thing for me. Plenty of quotable lines but I'm not sure if I ever laughed while watching it?
I will say I think the more human the body types get and still retain the Groening face, the more uncomfortable it makes me.
This is the first Groening show where I've noticed it being kind of ugly from the get go
+3
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I think it says a lot about how the TV landscape has changed that so many people are looking for early-Simpsons or Futurama levels of quality when neither of those shows had particularly beloved first seasons themselves.
Simpsons, no, but Futurama was more or less fully-formed right out of the gate
The second episode is all the Moon stuff
Isn't the "No fair, you changed the result by measuring it!" also in the first season?
Because I think that's the best line Futurama ever had.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I think it says a lot about how the TV landscape has changed that so many people are looking for early-Simpsons or Futurama levels of quality when neither of those shows had particularly beloved first seasons themselves.
Simpsons, no, but Futurama was more or less fully-formed right out of the gate
The second episode is all the Moon stuff
Isn't the "No fair, you changed the result by measuring it!" also in the first season?
Because I think that's the best line Futurama ever had.
Nah thats luck of the fryrish iirc. Season 1 Farnsworth wasnt that energetic yet
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
I think it says a lot about how the TV landscape has changed that so many people are looking for early-Simpsons or Futurama levels of quality when neither of those shows had particularly beloved first seasons themselves.
Simpsons, no, but Futurama was more or less fully-formed right out of the gate
The second episode is all the Moon stuff
Isn't the "No fair, you changed the result by measuring it!" also in the first season?
Because I think that's the best line Futurama ever had.
I believe thats the second season. The first season definitely has some gems but Ill always remember the emotional stuff. Everybody talks about the “whalers on the moon” bit but the end of that episode where we get a solomn sad moment through Fry at the cost of progress and Lela gets a moment of true beauty as she sees for the first time the reality that had been papered over by greedy cynical consumerism is what Ill always remember from that episode. Later seasons got funnier but grew less conserned about the emotional truths its premise could give us.
Disenchanted in contrast may have a running story but it doesn’t really feel like it has anything to say. It doesn’t have a point of view and based on a pretty petty joke aimed at people who care about logical consistency I dont think it cares. It’s just some stuff that happened. Also I’m pretty over television shows that use the fact that they have a female main character to justified not having any other prominent female characters.
nightmarenny on
+1
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I think it says a lot about how the TV landscape has changed that so many people are looking for early-Simpsons or Futurama levels of quality when neither of those shows had particularly beloved first seasons themselves.
Simpsons, no, but Futurama was more or less fully-formed right out of the gate
The second episode is all the Moon stuff
Isn't the "No fair, you changed the result by measuring it!" also in the first season?
Because I think that's the best line Futurama ever had.
I believe thats the second season. The first season definitely has some gems but Ill always remember the emotional stuff. Everybody talks about the “whalers on the moon” bit but the end of that episode where we get a solomn sad moment through Fry at the cost of progress and Lela gets a moment of true beauty as she sees for the first time the reality that had been papered over by greedy cynical consumerism is what Ill always remember from that episode. Later seasons got funnier but grew less conserned about the emotional truths its premise could give us.
I looked it up, it's the third season.
It's my favorite line because I loved it before I knew about the whole quantum aspect of it. It's a line that works on a lot of levels.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I think it says a lot about how the TV landscape has changed that so many people are looking for early-Simpsons or Futurama levels of quality when neither of those shows had particularly beloved first seasons themselves.
That might be true but from my perspective it feels like a lot of people are giving Disenchanted a lot of leeway because its an MG show. I don't think many would be leaping to call it not actually that bad if it weren't for its pedigree. If this were just a new show I don't think we'd be talking about it at all. A few people would have watched the first couple episodes and backed out. Maybe the show isn't as bad as I have been saying but its certainly banal enough that its not really worth anybody's time.
i genuinely think its the opposite
if it was from an unknown people wouldnt be as harsh on it as they are being
I will say I think the more human the body types get and still retain the Groening face, the more uncomfortable it makes me.
This is the first Groening show where I've noticed it being kind of ugly from the get go
It feels without cohesion to me. I think a lot of the backgrounds have a nice texture, almost watercolor looking. But the character designs are all over the place and lack any kind of consistency what so ever. Like The King is so lazy that I'd pull that as like a half drawn character in a Where's Waldo book. Which next to Bean who looks very on model for say a Futurama styled character, saddled with the slick minimalist Luci. It just, it looks weird all in a single shot.
I honestly enjoyed Disenchantment more than most Futurama I've seen
Futurama has aged poorly and Disenchantment has, like, a bad gag (which is still bad, to be clear), but the biggest thing is that it feels a lot less...smug? Futurama had some great moments but it carried a lot of loving the smell of it's own farts vibe to it between the super obscure science and math jokes and the constant lampshading of sci-fi tropes.
Disenchantment is far from perfect, and is still something I would only really call pretty good, but it tells a pretty solid little fantasy story while doing primarily character based gags without ever coming across as smug or insufferable which is something Groening, especially modern Groening, has a problem with for me.
I think it says a lot about how the TV landscape has changed that so many people are looking for early-Simpsons or Futurama levels of quality when neither of those shows had particularly beloved first seasons themselves.
That might be true but from my perspective it feels like a lot of people are giving Disenchanted a lot of leeway because its an MG show. I don't think many would be leaping to call it not actually that bad if it weren't for its pedigree. If this were just a new show I don't think we'd be talking about it at all. A few people would have watched the first couple episodes and backed out. Maybe the show isn't as bad as I have been saying but its certainly banal enough that its not really worth anybody's time.
i genuinely think its the opposite
if it was from an unknown people wouldnt be as harsh on it as they are being
Maybe but I don't think people would be leaping to defend it either.
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Not you, you.
That was a more general you.
Which excluded you.
Matt Groening got old you guys.
He hires the writing staff and gets final say on what goes in and what doesn’t.
I really dont think thats ever been true frankly. Hes good at high concepts but Ive always felt guys like James L Brooks and David X Cohen were the ones that steered the direction of his shows
Yeah, he definitely hasn't earned benefit of the doubt with recent comments https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2018/04/27/thesimpsons-matt-groening-new-record-fox-animated-series/524581002/
Steam
You may be right about the day to day here, as it looks like he’s using Josh Weinstein (Mission Hill among other shows) as the show runner. But still, he is an EP and he created the damn thing. His name is all over it. It is fair to criticize him.
But I was using Groening as a metaphor for the wntire crew. I recognize so many writers and producers in the credits and its a an shame that the whole lot of these hotshot amazing writers who defined a generations sense of humor have so erred.
Disenchanted is...all of the same people as Futurama, who have been working together for 20 years
I wish it was a total clean slate, but maybe I’m wrong and Futurama wasn’t that either
i.e. David Cohen was a writer on The Simpsons
It wasn't. David X Cohen who received an EP credit on Futurama along with being head-writer worked on the Simpsons starting at season 5. Rich Moore and Gregg Vanzo who directed the Futurama pilot both have previous Simpsons credits with Moore directing more than his share of the classic Simpsons episodes such as "Marge vs the monorail" and "cape fear". The second episodes writer, Ken Keeler, wrote for the simpsons including having the dubious honor of writing "The Principal and the Pauper". The majority of writers end up coming from other sources including many previous writers of "The Critic" but the nucleus of the show was people MG already knew.
I rewatched all of Rick and Morty and yeah I do enjoy that show but like most normal humans I think Rick is a giant turd jerk
It looks the same, it sounds the same, his name is plastered all over it
And I just don't really care anymore?
i am the very opposite of the target audience
I think the only major difference, which is something that I enjoy, is that it gets a lot more story and plot heavy than most of his work towards the end to the point where the finale is almost entirely plot developments and character beats and only a handful of jokes
Simpsons, no, but Futurama was more or less fully-formed right out of the gate
The second episode is all the Moon stuff
I was wrong, it starts to get good midway through Season 1 but it still took a while to find its voice. I'd say My Three Suns is the first good episode of the show, although there are definitely funny individual scenes before then.
That might be true but from my perspective it feels like a lot of people are giving Disenchanted a lot of leeway because its an MG show. I don't think many would be leaping to call it not actually that bad if it weren't for its pedigree. If this were just a new show I don't think we'd be talking about it at all. A few people would have watched the first couple episodes and backed out. Maybe the show isn't as bad as I have been saying but its certainly banal enough that its not really worth anybody's time.
This is the first Groening show where I've noticed it being kind of ugly from the get go
Isn't the "No fair, you changed the result by measuring it!" also in the first season?
Because I think that's the best line Futurama ever had.
Nah thats luck of the fryrish iirc. Season 1 Farnsworth wasnt that energetic yet
I believe thats the second season. The first season definitely has some gems but Ill always remember the emotional stuff. Everybody talks about the “whalers on the moon” bit but the end of that episode where we get a solomn sad moment through Fry at the cost of progress and Lela gets a moment of true beauty as she sees for the first time the reality that had been papered over by greedy cynical consumerism is what Ill always remember from that episode. Later seasons got funnier but grew less conserned about the emotional truths its premise could give us.
Disenchanted in contrast may have a running story but it doesn’t really feel like it has anything to say. It doesn’t have a point of view and based on a pretty petty joke aimed at people who care about logical consistency I dont think it cares. It’s just some stuff that happened. Also I’m pretty over television shows that use the fact that they have a female main character to justified not having any other prominent female characters.
I looked it up, it's the third season.
It's my favorite line because I loved it before I knew about the whole quantum aspect of it. It's a line that works on a lot of levels.
i genuinely think its the opposite
if it was from an unknown people wouldnt be as harsh on it as they are being
It feels without cohesion to me. I think a lot of the backgrounds have a nice texture, almost watercolor looking. But the character designs are all over the place and lack any kind of consistency what so ever. Like The King is so lazy that I'd pull that as like a half drawn character in a Where's Waldo book. Which next to Bean who looks very on model for say a Futurama styled character, saddled with the slick minimalist Luci. It just, it looks weird all in a single shot.
Futurama has aged poorly and Disenchantment has, like, a bad gag (which is still bad, to be clear), but the biggest thing is that it feels a lot less...smug? Futurama had some great moments but it carried a lot of loving the smell of it's own farts vibe to it between the super obscure science and math jokes and the constant lampshading of sci-fi tropes.
Disenchantment is far from perfect, and is still something I would only really call pretty good, but it tells a pretty solid little fantasy story while doing primarily character based gags without ever coming across as smug or insufferable which is something Groening, especially modern Groening, has a problem with for me.
Maybe but I don't think people would be leaping to defend it either.