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[Overwatch] Ashe is now Live!

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Posts

  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    I kinda' wonder if folks feelings about Overwatch would improve if they played it on console. Don't get me wrong, we have the occasional troll or 12 year old or toxic douche in voice, but I really get the sense that the overall experience is more pleasant than on PC.

    I don't know if I have better luck or other people just tend to focus on the negative experiences more than I do, but the other players in my games are positive far more often than negative. Mostly, people are quiet, though.

    9MpLNPA.jpg
    Steam: MightyPotatoKing/King of the Impossible - Battle.net: PotatoKing#1893
    ChanceMcMoogleH3Knuckles
  • djmitchelladjmitchella Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    If all you want to do is jump in and shoot shit by yourself, Quickplay is just fine. It’s free so just install it and give it a go.

    Fair enough; I've been wondering about the game for ages so this seems like as good a time as any to give it a shot. thanks!

    Chance
  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    If all you want to do is jump in and shoot shit by yourself, Quickplay is just fine. It’s free so just install it and give it a go.

    Fair enough; I've been wondering about the game for ages so this seems like as good a time as any to give it a shot. thanks!

    and people treat comp like the same thing!

  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Just had an Eichewalde defense where I blocked all of the opposing Reins' shatters, hit every single one of mine, and still lost because the dps missed targets LYING ON THE GODDAMN GROUND.

    Edit: and then I get 2 throwers to end my session. Guess it's time to go to the alt account because the farther I drop on the main, the more impossible it gets to find a game.

    sanstodo on
    Chance
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    What is the best Genji guide? I'm sick of Ana and Hanzo's shit right now.

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Cantido wrote: »
    What is the best Genji guide? I'm sick of Ana and Hanzo's shit right now.

    I... don't know, I'm afraid. I'd just punch Genji guide into YouTube and watch the latest. Oh and KarQ's Tips for Every Hero is cool.



    I'd look at a wiki to understand his numbers, then start goofing around in no limits/qp to get a feel for him - you can 1-shot a lot of characters with a 3 headshots and switfstrike combo, but landing those shots is pretty rough on Genji (to me at least). Watch some pro Genjis to see what's possible and start with trying to gank an enemy and escape with your life.

    Once you've mastered that, gank 2, and repeat.

    .

    2 and 0 in comp so far tonight - and awesome games. Two hard-fought near-losses, and now I'm back in platinum. I'm scared to push it but I'm also gonna' ride this crazy train straight to hell - or 2 losses in a row, whichever comes first.

    Edit: W W L W and a leaver that cancelled a Gibraltar match after 60 seconds.

    Chance on
    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
    H3Knuckles
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    I don't think I've ever seen Wrecking Ball work outside of the two or so king of the hill maps with a pole in the middle you can spin around (stripper joke). The control center and shrine maps are the only two I can think of, maybe one of the Oasis ones? Even in those two maps, he only occasionally contributes.

    I'm just not seeing why you'd pick him. His shield activation bonus radius is too small to survive dives. The rest of his kit is like they decided to make Doomfist into a tank, but worse. Worse burst, worse CC, worse ult, and even trickier to pull off.

    Why?

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    He’s good when there’s some kind of overpass for a cart to drive under, he can knock people off the cart pretty well.

  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    MrBody wrote: »
    I don't think I've ever seen Wrecking Ball work outside of the two or so king of the hill maps with a pole in the middle you can spin around (stripper joke). The control center and shrine maps are the only two I can think of, maybe one of the Oasis ones? Even in those two maps, he only occasionally contributes.

    I'm just not seeing why you'd pick him. His shield activation bonus radius is too small to survive dives. The rest of his kit is like they decided to make Doomfist into a tank, but worse. Worse burst, worse CC, worse ult, and even trickier to pull off.

    Why?

    55% of the time, every time.

    I watched a lot of EvilToaster on Twitch to figure him out. I don't know what to tell you though. It feels like you want me to sell the whole hero to you?

    WB is an initiator tank. You wait until your team's dps can get their damage down on where you're going, and then you go. You try to kill a squishy when you go in. If the enemy team prevents you, it's because they committed far more resources and attention than you deserve now that your dps are piling in. You bugger off and reengage when you can. If the enemy team doesn't prevent you, congratulations, Zen is dead and your team is piling on in a 6v5. If they amanged to kill you with your potentially 1000ish hp, then you initiated poorly, you overstayed, or they are so tapped out on abilities that your team should win the fight easily if they go hard and fast. You also do work like a Lucio: you chase down weak and fleeing enemies and kill them with your mediocre dps. You top off the burst on heroes your dps are killing, wherever that may be. You grapple-boop divers from your backline, and bodyblock with your MASSIVE body and your hella fast roll to reposition the blocks. You speed around the battlefield putting every team effort over the top, never staying long enough to engage in a slugging match.

    That's the sell. That's all I've got. If you still don't like him we'll just have to agree to disagree, though I'll tell you right now, I'm having a ball!

    Musicool on
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
    MrVyngaard
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Just had 4 games in a row where I kept swapping teams. Both teams were pretty good, but this one Rainhardt kept complaining that his healer (me) from the first game swapped and never went back to his team. Through the game I had someone with a pretty high rank try both Tracer and Sombra to take me down and pretty consistently focused on me. Luckily I've gotten more practice with Guardian Angel and most of the time I could get away, but every team I ended up on seemed pretty appreciative of my healing.

    Kinda makes you feel better about your playing then people want you back on their team :)

    -Loki- on
    H3Knucklesdavidsdurions
  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    I don't see how Wrecking Ball has a worse ult than Doomfist. Like the robot says... "AREA DENIED." Shooting the things down takes an assload of time; if you stick them in the right chokepoint, you get the objective for free for several seconds at a bare minimum, and likely even more than that. Dropping them on a team is more or less guaranteed to pick up at least one kill. I've definitely struggled to make him work for me, but his ultimate seems to be the best thing to recommend about him.

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
    ChanceMusicool
  • BethrynBethryn Registered User regular
    The big issue with Hammond's ult is that he doesn't store the proximity mines in his cheek pouches.

    Practically though, it's really good on the smaller CP KotH maps like Ilios Town, Nepal Temple, etc.

    ChanceMcMoogleFremBradicusMaximus
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat bad, but in a useful way Registered User regular
    One of the guys on our other work team plays an insane hammond. Doesn't matter the map, even when we went Hog/Ana to try to counter him he would force our supports way back (or even kill one) then get out alive every time. His survivability is fucking bonkers because of how fast he is in ball mode even without considering how low the cooldown is on hookshot.

    ipb9shu990mz.jpg


    MusicoolMrVyngaardKana
  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    You should try countering him with Sombra. She’s in a great place right now and shuts him down pretty hard.

    9MpLNPA.jpg
    Steam: MightyPotatoKing/King of the Impossible - Battle.net: PotatoKing#1893
    McMoogle
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    You should try countering him with Sombra. She’s in a great place right now and shuts him down pretty hard.

    A lot of the old anti-tank standbys do well against him too - Reaper and Bastion in particular. 'Course neither can chase him down when he rolls away...

    Sombra & Tracer are excellent at that ^.^

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
    BionicPenguin
  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    Speaking of Tracer, I was feeling a little down last night for reasons unrelated to OW, so I decided to practice her in some FFA. The first one didn’t go all that well, but I wasn’t too bothered (except when lag kept me from recalling to escape a tire :mad:) because I was definitely getting better as the match went on. The next match, though, I was consistently in first place throughout and won with a 3 elimination lead. It wasn’t the most dominant FFA win I’ve had (that belongs to Pharah), but it was a nice way to end the night.

    9MpLNPA.jpg
    Steam: MightyPotatoKing/King of the Impossible - Battle.net: PotatoKing#1893
    MrVyngaardH3Knuckles
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    It was rough out there for a Tracer main last night. Brigs and Pharahs every. Single. Game.

    Still went 4 and 3 so my winrate's back above 50%, but it was a fight!

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
    H3Knuckles
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    A good thing to learn about Hammond is how little you actually need to do to hit top speed. Any wall can really get you to a high-speed ground roll.

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
    Musicool
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat bad, but in a useful way Registered User regular
    You should try countering him with Sombra. She’s in a great place right now and shuts him down pretty hard.

    I totally forget we actually had a Sombra and after he said she was the biggest problem for him!

    Still ran roughshod over us.

    ipb9shu990mz.jpg


  • djmitchelladjmitchella Registered User regular
    quick possibly dumb question -- if I do training > 'practise against AIs', I'm playing with my team made up of AIs, as well as on the other team, right? Or were those real people on my side?

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    I think it might be real people on your side only, if other people are looking to play vs AI - but I'm definitely not sure.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
    The Escape GoatNobodyH3Knuckles
  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    Any AI will be named after the character. Zarya will be named Zarya, etc.

    9MpLNPA.jpg
    Steam: MightyPotatoKing/King of the Impossible - Battle.net: PotatoKing#1893
    ChanceKana
  • CoinageCoinage dance all crazy, whip my hair around all crazy Registered User regular
    Hammond's displacement is insanely good, his main weakness is that probably more than any other hero, his counters make him just unable to play the game.

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat bad, but in a useful way Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    Hammond's displacement is insanely good, his main weakness is that probably more than any other hero, his counters make him just unable to play the game.

    Still better than a hacked Doomfist.

    ipb9shu990mz.jpg


    CantidoMrVyngaard
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Carried over from the last thread.
    Chance wrote: »
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Edit: also -Loki- - do you ever go DPS in comp?

    I’m still under rank 25. Hit 21 last night. I’ll be jumping into comp as soon as I hit 25.

    I had my history of zero experience (and thus confidence and ability!) with multiplayer shooters, so I mained Mercy for at least the first two seasons with a bit of tank flex here and there. I never pulled my Tracer in comp until, one day in like season 3, I was the Mercy who watched her team split up and die repeatedly on Lijiang (back when control maps were best of five), and the entire team switched to DPS. I went from 0 elims to silver - our Soldier who'd been Soldier all game got 56 elims, and I got silver with 49 by playing as Tracer for the last 3 rounds.

    It took a disaster for me to even try DPS as a desperation move, and discover I could actually get work done in comp with her.

    What I'm sayin' is, don't wait for a disaster match to see if playing DPS is an effective path to victory. Might be that's what you're best at.

    I play DPS and Tank pretty regularly. My problem is a lot of the DPS characters don't do it for me. I either don't enjoy playing them or I suck at playing them. Any that use melee are just out - I hate melee from first person. I like Soldier though, probably because like I said before, he's like playing a normal military FPS. At some point I'll probably pick one and learn it. Both Symmetra and Pharah look fun.

    Pharah can do tons of work up to the highest SR ^.^ NuSym needs a lot of coordination to really shine, but she can still get stuff done solo - she just becomes super-strong with tele coordination.

    Seagull has some really good Sym gameplay to watch. He's really good at teleporter fuckery, even when his team isn't following him. You can retain your weapon chargeup as you go through the tele, so he regularly drops a tele into the enemy backline, shotguns an enemy, and then immediately teleports right back out again. Or just generally using the tele to always stay on high ground and rain down spam on any enemy attempts to push in. She's a proper pain to dive, because the moment they use mobility you just tele out. Really depends on the map though.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    Chance
  • Flippy_DFlippy_D Digital Conquistador LondonRegistered User regular
    Okay, sooooOOOOooo I was waiting for the new thread to do this, but here are the results of a bunch of data crunching. There's a lot to say and this took several days to write, so uh, I apologise in advance.

    There does need to be context as to my motives, first: I'm really good at shooters and always have been. CounterStrike, TF2, Battlefield, anything, you name it, I was usually topping the leaderboard and in or around the semi-pro scene. I've won money playing FPS and sniper classes have always been my go-to.

    So Overwatch is released and I'm like, hell yeah Widow. But I play like a hundred hours with her and it just doesn't click. I find this weird but not particularly upsetting, in part because I'm getting to quite like the style of shooty boi Hanzo.

    Competitive begins and I go for it, and although nobody likes me playing Hanzo and the hero is generally regarded as a liability, I do reasonably well. 51% winrate. Rank 50 high. Basically the lowest end of Plat. That'll do me. Season 2 I get my historic high of 2531, again just on the edge of Plat, and even though I then have a rough patch and end up 2008, low gold, that feels like mostly bad luck. Highs and lows, etc.

    So to recap: always been pretty good at FPS but never super-pro; OW S1 and S2 positioned me as... pretty good, but not super-pro. That's cool! Reasonably happy about this. Having fun in-game and playing against, and with, pretty good people.

    The along comes Season 3, and everything starts going wrong. I don't feel like I'm playing that much differently, but I qualify much lower and start to sliiiiiiiide. My season high of 2280 felt like, okay, I'll just have to climb back up into low Plat. But instead I slipped all the way to 1935, high silver.

    What got me about this was less the losses themselves (annoying though they were), but more how the nature and impact of these losses felt totally arbitrary. Yes, leavers and idiots, but one had to assume that those were more or less equally distributed. It did feel that my more risky, skirmishing, strategic style of play was less effective when not backed up with a competent team, but it also felt like the way I went up and down after wins and losses was not a fair reflection of how I was playing. I was playing my arse off, but to no avail. I got discouraged, defeated and also just quite angry, which I disliked. I decided OW competitive - at least at this lower skill level - was too toxic and making me into someone unpleasant, so I quit the game entirely. At the time I also came to the conclusion that Hanzo's net utility was also probably not good enough, and that I was playing with the wrong deck.

    Time passes. I get suckered back in. I'm playing well and dominating QP, and so after initially hard avoiding competitive I try it again. But nothing has changed - in fact, it's got worse. Qualified low gold, which was bad enough, but after a senseless losing streak of 14 games more or less in a row, I'm actually laughing in disbelief at my rank of 1852. It seems to have absolutely nothing to do with how well I'm playing or not. The teams are dreadful. I always seem to be working with morons. The last loss had seen the first round absolutely crush us in just 1:50. These just aren't fair games. There's nothing I can do about it.

    Ultimately, I slid seriously hard, into the bottom ~7% of players at the lowest point. The entire time, I felt more or less powerless. My efforts, abilities and tactics seemed to make little difference to enemy teams who were often just better, net, than mine. My net winrate at times was as low as 38%.

    6bn2ykg3uboi.png

    But I'm a data guy and so I start to gather some. In fact, I gather 47 metrics each game, every game, for 166 games. I also gathered all the data the game shares with you at a rolled-up level; a further 30 datapoints. What I learned was... well.

    Just presenting the data would be a total splurge, so instead I'm going to position these as a series of hypotheses.

    1. I am getting worse

    An extremely reasonable take! You're losing skill, less effective in games, and so ranking down accordingly. Fair enough.

    But, doesn't look like it. For example, indexed data from my highest-played character, season-on-season (red bar is season 9, all benched vs earliest season I've played that hero):
    ajo46jb10yl5.png
    There are some ups and downs but as you'll see, some of the core 'skill' metrics are strong:
    • Accuracy up 35%
    • Crits up 53%
    • Damage per 10 mins up 59%(!)
    • Elims/10 still 5% off S1 but getting better season-on-season (On Fire and Final Blows are similar stories)
    • Obj time up 119%
    • Gold medals up 32%
    • Crit

    Other heroes are here: https://imgur.com/a/wJJIkMc.

    On most of these, there are meaningful improvements (red bar going right or higher than dark green bar). Ironically, the two heroes I've statistically improved least with - Junk and Bastion - also have my highest winrates¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    But it's hard to make a convincing case that I've really got worse over time.

    2. Everyone else has got better

    Doesn't matter if you're going at x acceleration if all other traffic is going at x2. The playerbase has probably also fallen off a bit, meaning fewer poor opponents and more good ones, proportionately. I personally reckon the second point is more salient, given that I do in fact meet some clearly good players in Silver.

    But again, data doesn't indicate such.

    35ofwipebd7n.png
    (this screenshot is contemporaneous to the end of season 9, so should include all of it - registering, for example, 65 games with Hanzo).

    Overbuff, which compares your data to others, puts me firmly in the top 50-10% for most of what would be thought of as 'key' metrics. This is data from competitive. I even die much less than other people. So it doesn't feel like I'm so terrible compared to this dataset, which is itself already skewed towards top players.

    3. I wasn't being a team player!

    I always try to be a team player but ultimately, DPS is DPS. This confess this was haunting me a bit (it's a team game!) so I deliberately stepped away from a more solo mindset and started to play healer, a servant to my team. I got quite a lot of compliments on my healing, for what it's worth.

    I guess you could say 'playing healer doesn't necessarily make you a team player', but I really poured myself into it. Again, looking at the Overbuff data in the prior post my healing output seemed to be absolutely top-end compared to most competitive. I also tried to more explicitly play the objective on all heroes (I always play the objective, but for example I would previously, when capping a point, move ahead of my team to try and repel/thwart counterattacks).

    So, I really did go for being a team player. I played majority healer in 40% of all matches and as a secondary function in 30% of matches.

    The unfortunate irony here is that I seem to have contributed more as a DPS, my natural home. When playing DPS, we won more often, and those wins were more decisive, than when I was healing:

    1kp46yzv4yef.png

    This was despite my actual performance being relatively comparable across both win and loss scenarios:

    39bg1engoyep.png

    This tallies with this Reddit post making a pretty convincing case that the best thing you can do for your team is play the hero you win the most with. I am a good healer relative to the playerbase, but a better DPS.

    So: massively upped my 'team player'ness, but ultimately the outputs seemed to indicate that this didn't really make a huge difference to winrate, and may have even slightly negatively affected it.

    4. I wasn't playing the right 'kind' of game

    This is still one of the hardest hypotheses, partly because it's vague. I don't really know how to prove it one way or the other. Included for sake of completeness, but will have to come back to it some day.

    Certainly my objective time massively increased, across the board (~39% more as healer, 81% more as DPS and 982% more as Bastion specifically!). I changed heroes more, always responded to team needs to fit 2-2-2 and so on, and communicated actively. I used to play raid leader in WoW so I know how to work in groups. I currently have a '4' on my teammate score, split ~25% sportsmanship, ~15% leadership and ~60% good play.

    Didn't help my winrate, though.

    With that said, one thing I did notice and certainly the first actual concrete takeaway was that I wasn't doing well on attack/defend maps (Hollywood, Lunar, Anubis, Volks., BlizzWorld, Hanamura):

    008f582751h0.png

    This is something I'm going to have to think about, although it's not lost on me that these are arguably the maps that require the most organisation and teamwork. Nor that my best successes come from tight, killzone-based maps.

    5. The -/+ system just isn't very good

    This was, to be honest, my chief suspicion. Yes, I admit it, the suspicion probably comes from wounded pride, but I just didn't feel like the dynamic range on how much SR is awarded to subtracted after a win or loss (-/+16 to -/+32) was consistently reflective of in-game quality. This wasn't helped by some of my worst point deductions (based from the minimum of -/+16) came from my closest games (note also that there were far more close games when winning than when losing!):

    5oe8acwfyv1z.png

    So, I made my own metric.

    Every single game, I recorded the data from the aftermath screens. Again, this was for 166 games.

    w1go9er7q44u.png

    From this, I made a score that indexed/benchmarked my performance on my own rolling averages. Without going too much into it, it also discriminated between healing and dmg (so I wasn't judging Mercy on kills, for instance) and weighted certain metrics more (e.g. so medals weren't over-important).

    I also allowed, from game 80 onward, for the addition of a modifier if I thought my scoring system wasn't quite working. I used this option 20 times (vs 86 games), mostly for healing wherein the range of influencing metrics was slimmer.

    The results of my custom score vs Overwatch's score were interesting.

    Turns out, the question of 'does the -/+ line up with my self-perceived performance?' is quite difficult to answer. Mainly because, whilst Overwatch always assigned me -16 to -28 on a negative for a loss, and +16 to +32 for a win, there were obviously games where https://youtube.com/watch?v=1TCX90yALsI]I performed well but was still on the losing side.

    In fact, I put in above-average performances (always my personal average) in ~45% of losses and ~55% of wins. It's hard to know to what extent being beaten influences that - in other words, am I playing below average, contributing to a loss, or is being outmatched the equivalent of cutting 18% (or 10 pc pts) of my performance? For example in losing games I did 46 less damage per minute, but I can't DPS effectively if I'm receiving no support or if the enemy team is well-organised with shields etc, right? I think it's a bit of an impossible question to answer without more data, and we also won more when I played DPS, so... hard to say.

    Nonetheless, here is one way of looking at it:

    gm16a4y4fen4.png

    What this shows is not my absolute rank change, but rather the rank change expressed as a percentage of its deviation from average. In other words, if I lost -16 that was actually better than the average loss of -22 and so, therefore, actually measured as +27%. Equally, a win that only gave me 16 points was, although a positive score, realistically a poor reflection on the game's assessment of me, and worth -29%. This controls for the straight positive/negative dichotomy. My own score was similarly measured in the sense of deviation from the average.

    So just to be clear, this isn't wins on the left and losses on the right. This just performance vs the game's reward of my performance.

    ... and frustratingly, the trendlines are very similar. The deviation is likely mostly explained by 'performing' worse during losses (see above) and MoE.

    The reason why this is frustrating is because it is does suggest that my way of gauging how well I played is, in the macro, in line with the game's. This means in short - much as I don't like it - that the scoring is accurate when taken as a net. Another surprise was that Overwatch was just, slightly, giving out more for wins - average 22.97 vs average -22.19, so 0.46 more.

    Where it falls over, however, is on individual matches. As you can see, there are plenty of matches where my self-assessed performance outstripped the relative score from the game. Bear in mind this is mostly not manually done, but is a score automatically generated from my class metrics. If we prioritise my metrics instead, we can see what's up:

    ccyl9s578xgi.png

    Namely, it looks like the way Overwatch deals with wild variance in performance is to flatten it - yes, triumphs aren't rewarded as much, but losses are also not so harshly penalised. In fact, my system is marginally less forgiving, on paper.

    Still, although there's this data it still feels slightly inconclusive, and I still think that Overwatch does a generally poor job of responding to in-game actions. Presumably, the flattening is to account for that very discrepancy, which would explain why the trendlines in the first graph are so similar...

    ... but I'm still not entirely assuaged here. I fear I shall never be.

    ---

    So, what are the conclusions here?
    • I am getting worse - data doesn't support this, I'm actually improving
    • Everyone else is getting better - data doesn't support this, my relative metrics vs others are pretty favourable
    • I wasn't being a team player - no data, but I significantly adjusted my playstyle and ironically appear to still be contributing most as a DPS
    • I wasn't playing the right kind of game - somewhat supported! I am proportionately worse at attack/defend maps and need to figure this one out
    • The way Overwatch scores you isn't properly reflective of in-game performance - data inconclusive. In some ways it appears no, in other ways it seems yes. I grudgingly think it still gets it wrong, but have to admit it probably doesn't have as much an effect as I feel it does. Although as a bonus, I played above average in 68% of 'close' games.

    Where am I left after all these numbers and analyses? Somewhere obvious: teamwork is in fact more important than any individual metric or how well you perform, and you are basically therefore at the mercy of being in a good, or (if you're a leader type) attentive, team. I think it no co-incidence that two of my three 'climbs' were when I (by chance) found a decent team and stuck with it:

    72crn8ajxkfj.png

    To me that feels a bit... shit. For two reasons:

    1) It's still just the goddamn luck of the draw. no matter how well I play, or don't play, personal performance can only ever put the brakes on a bad team performance. I can't enforce comp, I can't really make people notice shit, and I can't 'carry'. That last point is, incidentally, where I wound up last time, without data: that the classes I play can't carry like an insane Doomfist, Genji, Moira, Brigitte, or to some extent Rein or Sombra, can. I don't happen to be practiced with those heroes, either.

    2) If that Redditor's analysis is correct, Overwatch could probably do better on distributing people into teams! It could easily figure out the propensity for people to play heroes with high winrates and calculate the projected winrate. From there, it could create fairer matchups. But I guess that will never happen, and so you'll always be subjected to stomps and (it never feels often enough) delivering stomps.

    Anyway, that's more than enough. I leave you with specific hero win data, which I'm now at least using to try and give myself the best chance of being useful on any game that I join.

    Because, I after all, I really, really want to win.

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    ChanceMrBodyEndaroMusicoolFencingsaxsanstodoH3KnucklesPailryderReynoldsBRIAN BLESSED
  • KreutzKreutz Registered User regular
    I went 0-7 yesterday during my (dis)placement matches playing Mercy, including a 7-round slog on Anubis that I was just happy to be done with. Then I played some 6v6 randos, and found myself tearing it up with Moira so I tried her out for the remainder of my placement matches, because what's the worst that could happen, right? Well, I won the last three matches and placed gold for healing in all three. I think a lot of the difference is not having a giant bullseye on my character as soon as the wings come out, as well as being able to do something about gank attempts. Which isn't to say that Mercy's pistol doesn't work in certain situations, but compared to a tracking DoT with minor lifestealing capabilities it may as well be a peashooter. I don't think I mind giving up the damage boosting abilities in exchange for that.

    ChanceH3Knuckles
  • Flippy_DFlippy_D Digital Conquistador LondonRegistered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    What is the best Genji guide? I'm sick of Ana and Hanzo's shit right now.

    Genji pushes my shit in reliably as Hanzo, and I'm a decent Hanzo.

    In fact I find it hard to know what to do when he's opposing. He just needs his rush and a melee attack to kill me, and he can deflect anything I can fire at him. Honestly I've little defence outside of clever headshots or lucky melee. If his deflect and/or rush is on cooldown he can whittle me easily enough with shuriken.

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  • Flippy_DFlippy_D Digital Conquistador LondonRegistered User regular
    Kreutz wrote: »
    I went 0-7 yesterday during my (dis)placement matches playing Mercy, including a 7-round slog on Anubis that I was just happy to be done with. Then I played some 6v6 randos, and found myself tearing it up with Moira so I tried her out for the remainder of my placement matches, because what's the worst that could happen, right? Well, I won the last three matches and placed gold for healing in all three. I think a lot of the difference is not having a giant bullseye on my character as soon as the wings come out, as well as being able to do something about gank attempts. Which isn't to say that Mercy's pistol doesn't work in certain situations, but compared to a tracking DoT with minor lifestealing capabilities it may as well be a peashooter. I don't think I mind giving up the damage boosting abilities in exchange for that.

    Am I the only one who thinks Moira is OP? Entirely possibly to get gold for healing and silver for damage without even being that good, plus autolock aim.

    p8fnsZD.png
    ChanceReynolds
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat bad, but in a useful way Registered User regular
    I'm still a little salty every time I die to a shuriken thrown before deflect actually ended.

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    Chance
  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Flippy_D wrote: »
    Kreutz wrote: »
    I went 0-7 yesterday during my (dis)placement matches playing Mercy, including a 7-round slog on Anubis that I was just happy to be done with. Then I played some 6v6 randos, and found myself tearing it up with Moira so I tried her out for the remainder of my placement matches, because what's the worst that could happen, right? Well, I won the last three matches and placed gold for healing in all three. I think a lot of the difference is not having a giant bullseye on my character as soon as the wings come out, as well as being able to do something about gank attempts. Which isn't to say that Mercy's pistol doesn't work in certain situations, but compared to a tracking DoT with minor lifestealing capabilities it may as well be a peashooter. I don't think I mind giving up the damage boosting abilities in exchange for that.

    Am I the only one who thinks Moira is OP? Entirely possibly to get gold for healing and silver for damage without even being that good, plus autolock aim.

    Yes. Here's the thing about Moira: if you measure numbers only, she's going to come out on top compared to the other supports. There's a reason for that: her numbers are the only thing she has. Every single move she has other than Fade is going to raise her damage and healing numbers. But she doesn't speed boost, she can't raise anyone else's damage, she can't resurrect, she can't block healing, she can't stun. And she struggles to heal allies who are far away, because her main heal is a flamethrower and her secondary heal is a slow-moving ball. And, unlike any other support rather than Brigitte, she can completely exhaust her own capacity to heal. She's definitely powerful when she's operating at full power, but she collapses under sustained pressure in a way that other Supports don't.

    EDIT: I'm going to go ahead and acknowledge that saying "Yes, you're the only one who thinks this" when Chance had agreed with you before I started writing the post carries some irony.

    Kupi on
    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
    ChancemiscellaneousinsanityFremH3Knuckles
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Chance is a Tracer main and Moira has a tracking beam. There might be some bias there. :D

    FencingsaxFrem
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat bad, but in a useful way Registered User regular
    Flippy_D wrote: »
    Kreutz wrote: »
    I went 0-7 yesterday during my (dis)placement matches playing Mercy, including a 7-round slog on Anubis that I was just happy to be done with. Then I played some 6v6 randos, and found myself tearing it up with Moira so I tried her out for the remainder of my placement matches, because what's the worst that could happen, right? Well, I won the last three matches and placed gold for healing in all three. I think a lot of the difference is not having a giant bullseye on my character as soon as the wings come out, as well as being able to do something about gank attempts. Which isn't to say that Mercy's pistol doesn't work in certain situations, but compared to a tracking DoT with minor lifestealing capabilities it may as well be a peashooter. I don't think I mind giving up the damage boosting abilities in exchange for that.

    Am I the only one who thinks Moira is OP? Entirely possibly to get gold for healing and silver for damage without even being that good, plus autolock aim.

    She can do a lot of healing or damage, sure, but it's more difficult for her to do impactful damage or healing. It's like the Torb turret problem.

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    BionicPenguin
  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    Flippy_D wrote: »
    Kreutz wrote: »
    I went 0-7 yesterday during my (dis)placement matches playing Mercy, including a 7-round slog on Anubis that I was just happy to be done with. Then I played some 6v6 randos, and found myself tearing it up with Moira so I tried her out for the remainder of my placement matches, because what's the worst that could happen, right? Well, I won the last three matches and placed gold for healing in all three. I think a lot of the difference is not having a giant bullseye on my character as soon as the wings come out, as well as being able to do something about gank attempts. Which isn't to say that Mercy's pistol doesn't work in certain situations, but compared to a tracking DoT with minor lifestealing capabilities it may as well be a peashooter. I don't think I mind giving up the damage boosting abilities in exchange for that.

    Am I the only one who thinks Moira is OP? Entirely possibly to get gold for healing and silver for damage without even being that good, plus autolock aim.

    She can do a lot of healing or damage, sure, but it's more difficult for her to do impactful damage or healing. It's like the Torb turret problem.

    Yeah. She may get a lot of damage with that orb, but if it's split between the entire enemy team, that was just a waste of a cooldown.

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    Steam: MightyPotatoKing/King of the Impossible - Battle.net: PotatoKing#1893
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    I'm wishing they could do some kind of ult charge carryover when you switch heroes, just so people would switch more readily when something isn't working out. 50% carryover? 66%?

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat bad, but in a useful way Registered User regular
    I wish we had an infographic of how many times people said "I'll just use this ult and switch" and then died before they could use the ult. Which heroes do it most often, how many times it happens on one ult charge, etc

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    Pailryder
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Chance is a Tracer main and Moira has a tracking beam. There might be some bias there. :D

    Ha! I fear no Moira (as a general rule, I'm sure I'll meet a carry Moira one day). Great Anas and Zens are far bigger problems. When I get schooled by a hotshot Ana, that shit's humbling.

    That said, Moira's kit might be a bit too complete compared to Ana and Zen in particular - she has no real weakness beyond an inability to heal allies at range, and Fade is probably the single-best escape option in the game.

    Still, I think @Kupi 's right about the utility of the other supports outpacing Moira - so maybe that's meant to be the balance against her good damage, great healing and wild survivability.
    MrBody wrote: »
    I'm wishing they could do some kind of ult charge carryover when you switch heroes, just so people would switch more readily when something isn't working out. 50% carryover? 66%?

    In mystery heroes, I wholly agree.

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    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • BaidolBaidol I will hold him off Escape while you canRegistered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Chance is a Tracer main and Moira has a tracking beam. There might be some bias there. :D

    I would like to note that, despite what it looks like, Moira's beam does not track like old Symmetra. Moira's grasp is a cylinder like Zarya's primary fire.

    Steam Overwatch: Baidol#1957
    The Escape GoatChancemiscellaneousinsanityKanaBionicPenguinKupiHouk the NamebringerMcMoogleFencingsaxFremH3KnucklesKwoaruTim is on the Internet
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Flippy_D wrote: »
    Kreutz wrote: »
    I went 0-7 yesterday during my (dis)placement matches playing Mercy, including a 7-round slog on Anubis that I was just happy to be done with. Then I played some 6v6 randos, and found myself tearing it up with Moira so I tried her out for the remainder of my placement matches, because what's the worst that could happen, right? Well, I won the last three matches and placed gold for healing in all three. I think a lot of the difference is not having a giant bullseye on my character as soon as the wings come out, as well as being able to do something about gank attempts. Which isn't to say that Mercy's pistol doesn't work in certain situations, but compared to a tracking DoT with minor lifestealing capabilities it may as well be a peashooter. I don't think I mind giving up the damage boosting abilities in exchange for that.

    Am I the only one who thinks Moira is OP? Entirely possibly to get gold for healing and silver for damage without even being that good, plus autolock aim.

    She can do a lot of healing or damage, sure, but it's more difficult for her to do impactful damage or healing. It's like the Torb turret problem.

    I dunno, I think Moira can be a pretty reliable problem for D.Va, Genji and Mercy in particular. Her primary aim is so forgiving that you can just keep it on a Mercy as she flits around, stopping her self-heal.

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    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
    MrVyngaard
  • CoinageCoinage dance all crazy, whip my hair around all crazy Registered User regular
    I feel like I'm pretty good with Moira but she's one of my lowest winrate champions, I guess I'm blinded by science

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