Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[Overwatch] Ashe is now Live!

12467101

Posts

  • DonnictonDonnicton Hey it's me, your old pal Movie Sonic - let me in. LEMME IN. Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    I find that kinda' weird. Like I'd assumed the 78 was because the system was like "this person needs to be 1500 SR higher than they are right now! SR! ALLL THE SR!!!" But to drop you 40 after a loss - that's kinda' like "the system has no fucking idea where to put me."

    Right now I think I'm where I'm supposed to be - 2450-2500. Won 2, lost 1, won 1, lost 1, won 1, lost 1 - at least I'm not fallin'! And the games are mostly good hard fights, so I'm very much in the sweet spot.

    My brother keeps buggin' me to make a smurf, but maybe I'm scared of what the SR system'll tell me...

    Edit: also I just noticed the quote under your avatar, "Brutal J" - that voice line has been my text/email/general phone alert for like the past year. It usurped the Kim Possible ringtone and the MGS Codec sound.

    I don't know if they bothered to fix this and if so by how much, but used to be that your SR gains and losses were also based on that hero's global stats. A common troll tactic was for players to game their way up the SR ladder by intentionally only playing a rarely used hero like Torb, because they would see larger SR increases when they won compared to commonly played heroes. Mei would be one of those heroes that falls within the realm of "if you're playing her, you're probably trolling" because of her global pick rate(though not quite as much as Torb/Bastion).

    Chance
  • Brutal JBrutal J Sorry! Sorry, I'm sorry. Sorry. Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    I find that kinda' weird. Like I'd assumed the 78 was because the system was like "this person needs to be 1500 SR higher than they are right now! SR! ALLL THE SR!!!" But to drop you 40 after a loss - that's kinda' like "the system has no fucking idea where to put me."

    Right now I think I'm where I'm supposed to be - 2450-2500. Won 2, lost 1, won 1, lost 1, won 1, lost 1 - at least I'm not fallin'! And the games are mostly good hard fights, so I'm very much in the sweet spot.

    My brother keeps buggin' me to make a smurf, but maybe I'm scared of what the SR system'll tell me...

    Edit: also I just noticed the quote under your avatar, "Brutal J" - that voice line has been my text/email/general phone alert for like the past year. It usurped the Kim Possible ringtone and the MGS Codec sound.

    I don't know if they bothered to fix this and if so by how much, but used to be that your SR gains and losses were also based on that hero's global stats. A common troll tactic was for players to game their way up the SR ladder by intentionally only playing a rarely used hero like Torb, because they would see larger SR increases when they won compared to commonly played heroes. Mei would be one of those heroes that falls within the realm of "if you're playing her, you're probably trolling" because of her global pick rate(though not quite as much as Torb/Bastion).

    I don't think global stats are an issue exactly, it's just that there is fewer people playing those heroes which means less data. The accuracy of a GM Solider and a Silver Solider is not much different in regards to the numbers. Because a GM solider is shooting players with GM positioning, and Silver is shooting at Silver. If you are Silver but your aim is above the average, it means you have the aim beyond your opponents ability to dodge, and that aim % could be higher than that of a GM player, but it doesn't indicate what level your aiming at, just it's above where you currently are.

    KanaNobody
  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    The more games you play the more confidence the system has in your Elo. That's standard for all Elo systems. It would make sense that new accounts would have larger SR gains and losses.

    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
    The Escape Goat
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Brutal J wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    I find that kinda' weird. Like I'd assumed the 78 was because the system was like "this person needs to be 1500 SR higher than they are right now! SR! ALLL THE SR!!!" But to drop you 40 after a loss - that's kinda' like "the system has no fucking idea where to put me."

    Right now I think I'm where I'm supposed to be - 2450-2500. Won 2, lost 1, won 1, lost 1, won 1, lost 1 - at least I'm not fallin'! And the games are mostly good hard fights, so I'm very much in the sweet spot.

    My brother keeps buggin' me to make a smurf, but maybe I'm scared of what the SR system'll tell me...

    Edit: also I just noticed the quote under your avatar, "Brutal J" - that voice line has been my text/email/general phone alert for like the past year. It usurped the Kim Possible ringtone and the MGS Codec sound.

    I don't know if they bothered to fix this and if so by how much, but used to be that your SR gains and losses were also based on that hero's global stats. A common troll tactic was for players to game their way up the SR ladder by intentionally only playing a rarely used hero like Torb, because they would see larger SR increases when they won compared to commonly played heroes. Mei would be one of those heroes that falls within the realm of "if you're playing her, you're probably trolling" because of her global pick rate(though not quite as much as Torb/Bastion).

    I don't think global stats are an issue exactly, it's just that there is fewer people playing those heroes which means less data. The accuracy of a GM Solider and a Silver Solider is not much different in regards to the numbers. Because a GM solider is shooting players with GM positioning, and Silver is shooting at Silver. If you are Silver but your aim is above the average, it means you have the aim beyond your opponents ability to dodge, and that aim % could be higher than that of a GM player, but it doesn't indicate what level your aiming at, just it's above where you currently are.

    Yeah watch any top 500 streamer and their stats are not usually massively higher on most heroes than they would be at like diamond.

    Maybe for a few heroes, like really good Genjis or Tracers could rack up some insane stats, esp. pre-brigitte, and a real good Ana (+ having tanks who know how to protect themselves when they're hurt) can definitely greatly outheal their lower tier players. But there's only time for so many team fights and so many kills in a match, and while they're better at hitting things their enemies are correspondingly better at avoiding getting hit.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Brutal J wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    I find that kinda' weird. Like I'd assumed the 78 was because the system was like "this person needs to be 1500 SR higher than they are right now! SR! ALLL THE SR!!!" But to drop you 40 after a loss - that's kinda' like "the system has no fucking idea where to put me."

    Right now I think I'm where I'm supposed to be - 2450-2500. Won 2, lost 1, won 1, lost 1, won 1, lost 1 - at least I'm not fallin'! And the games are mostly good hard fights, so I'm very much in the sweet spot.

    My brother keeps buggin' me to make a smurf, but maybe I'm scared of what the SR system'll tell me...

    Edit: also I just noticed the quote under your avatar, "Brutal J" - that voice line has been my text/email/general phone alert for like the past year. It usurped the Kim Possible ringtone and the MGS Codec sound.

    I don't know if they bothered to fix this and if so by how much, but used to be that your SR gains and losses were also based on that hero's global stats. A common troll tactic was for players to game their way up the SR ladder by intentionally only playing a rarely used hero like Torb, because they would see larger SR increases when they won compared to commonly played heroes. Mei would be one of those heroes that falls within the realm of "if you're playing her, you're probably trolling" because of her global pick rate(though not quite as much as Torb/Bastion).

    I don't think global stats are an issue exactly, it's just that there is fewer people playing those heroes which means less data. The accuracy of a GM Solider and a Silver Solider is not much different in regards to the numbers. Because a GM solider is shooting players with GM positioning, and Silver is shooting at Silver. If you are Silver but your aim is above the average, it means you have the aim beyond your opponents ability to dodge, and that aim % could be higher than that of a GM player, but it doesn't indicate what level your aiming at, just it's above where you currently are.

    Yeah watch any top 500 streamer and their stats are not usually massively higher on most heroes than they would be at like diamond.

    Maybe for a few heroes, like really good Genjis or Tracers could rack up some insane stats, esp. pre-brigitte, and a real good Ana (+ having tanks who know how to protect themselves when they're hurt) can definitely greatly outheal their lower tier players. But there's only time for so many team fights and so many kills in a match, and while they're better at hitting things their enemies are correspondingly better at avoiding getting hit.

    A great example is the random ducking and turning high level players do to avoid getting shot in the head. You never see that at lower levels because it just isn't needed.

    9MpLNPA.jpg
    Steam: MightyPotatoKing/King of the Impossible - Battle.net: PotatoKing#1893
    Chance
  • Brutal JBrutal J Sorry! Sorry, I'm sorry. Sorry. Registered User regular
    The real problem with the performance system is you have no idea what blizzard thinks are important stats and how much they influence your performance. Take Mei for example. You hit tab and there is no listing for accuracy. It implies Mei's right clicker accuracy doesn't matter at all for performance, yet you can get cards for enemies frozen and damage blocked (damage done to Icewall). The idea that the enemy damaging your wall is more important than right clicking every fool in the head you can see, is incredibly silly. Does it work this way? Who knows?!

    Odds are bastion and torb or Mercy or whoever didn't have their stats properly weighted, but there is no way of knowing that because Blizz rarely talked about it. The only mention i can even remember is there was a patch that lowered the importance of accuracy for Junkrat.

    Chance
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat Brave Sir Robin Registered User regular
    As a Rein I think the worst feeling is when I go with my whole team of no dive heroes and then we are at the front and my whole team runs in front of the barrier and dies and then the enemy team just walks over me and I am like why do I do this to myself, I should not be the last one to die.

    No, the worst is when you're the last to die as Rein while you were standing on the objective and you didn't see a single one of your teammates die. Where the fuck did you all go?!

    3clipse wrote: »
    God is dead and life has no purpose.
    NobodyKreutz
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    As a Rein I think the worst feeling is when I go with my whole team of no dive heroes and then we are at the front and my whole team runs in front of the barrier and dies and then the enemy team just walks over me and I am like why do I do this to myself, I should not be the last one to die.

    No, the worst is when you're the last to die as Rein while you were standing on the objective and you didn't see a single one of your teammates die. Where the fuck did you all go?!

    That’s about the time I swap to a DPS because it’s obvious your team is just treating it as a deathmatch And has no interest in playing as a team.

    Might as well shoot some shit while we lose.

    ChanceKreutzNobody
  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Or just "Ron" Registered User regular
    As a Rein I think the worst feeling is when I go with my whole team of no dive heroes and then we are at the front and my whole team runs in front of the barrier and dies and then the enemy team just walks over me and I am like why do I do this to myself, I should not be the last one to die.

    No, the worst is when you're the last to die as Rein while you were standing on the objective and you didn't see a single one of your teammates die. Where the fuck did you all go?!

    sometimes at the end of a game I will just be like

    we had an X?!

    WHEN? WHERE?!

    The Escape GoatChanceFremReynoldsdispatch.o
  • McMoogleMcMoogle Registered User regular
    The one thing that a rein can do that always make me both laugh and curse at the same time is when i inadvertently Guardian angel in between him and his intended target.
    "Come on I was around the corner how was i supposed to know?!"

    steam_sig.png
    Kreutz
  • EndaroEndaro Registered User regular
    Brutal J wrote: »
    The real problem with the performance system is you have no idea what blizzard thinks are important stats and how much they influence your performance.

    If you're Diamond or above, none of them; they don't use performance stats for rank changes past then. Quite a few people have been asking for Blizzard to extend this down to other ranks for these very reasons.

    ChanceBionicPenguinKanaUnluckyH3Knuckles
  • CoinageCoinage The Naming of Cats is a difficult matter Registered User regular
    My high season 9 was 1850, season 10 1900, season 11 2000, and I just broke 2100 this season. The system works! At this rate I only need to spend most to all of my free time playing and I can join OWL in 2023

    s586cu2r93hr.gif
    BionicPenguinKreutzDonnictonThe Escape GoatEndaroH3Knuckles
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    TBF to teammates who keep moving past your barrier... If it's just one dude, they're probably dumb.

    If your entire team keeps running past your barrier, the problem is probably your positioning. If you're not moving forward and taking control of firing lanes, the DPS have no choice but to either move past you or just not really accomplish anything.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    ChanceThe Escape GoatMusicoolZek
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat Brave Sir Robin Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    As a Rein I think the worst feeling is when I go with my whole team of no dive heroes and then we are at the front and my whole team runs in front of the barrier and dies and then the enemy team just walks over me and I am like why do I do this to myself, I should not be the last one to die.

    No, the worst is when you're the last to die as Rein while you were standing on the objective and you didn't see a single one of your teammates die. Where the fuck did you all go?!

    That’s about the time I swap to a DPS because it’s obvious your team is just treating it as a deathmatch And has no interest in playing as a team.

    Might as well shoot some shit while we lose.

    Even in the clusterfucks I tend to stay on Rein because the only possible way I can personally cheese an extra point or two for us is with a godshatter, and that happens just often enough to be worth going for.

    3clipse wrote: »
    God is dead and life has no purpose.
    Chance
  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Kana wrote: »
    TBF to teammates who keep moving past your barrier... If it's just one dude, they're probably dumb.

    If your entire team keeps running past your barrier, the problem is probably your positioning. If you're not moving forward and taking control of firing lanes, the DPS have no choice but to either move past you or just not really accomplish anything.

    As Rein your job is to get the dps where they want to go to get their damage down range. If you're not getting them there, then there are questions to be asked. Not all of those questions will be judging you, but some will.

    If there are too many deeps on the dance floor and they're throwing their mad dance moves all over the place then you pick the one or two that best synergise with you and the map and you tank for them. The others can go trade picks wherever they want to: you've got a dps, a barrier tank and probably a healer or two together, you can make it work.
    -Loki- wrote: »
    As a Rein I think the worst feeling is when I go with my whole team of no dive heroes and then we are at the front and my whole team runs in front of the barrier and dies and then the enemy team just walks over me and I am like why do I do this to myself, I should not be the last one to die.

    No, the worst is when you're the last to die as Rein while you were standing on the objective and you didn't see a single one of your teammates die. Where the fuck did you all go?!

    That’s about the time I swap to a DPS because it’s obvious your team is just treating it as a deathmatch And has no interest in playing as a team.

    Might as well shoot some shit while we lose.

    Even in the clusterfucks I tend to stay on Rein because the only possible way I can personally cheese an extra point or two for us is with a godshatter, and that happens just often enough to be worth going for.

    I don't care why you do it Goat, thank you!

    Probably the most predictable and painful switch in OW is when your Reinhardt/Winston lose faith in the team and decide to go third dps or second off-tank. It's like yeah, we all fucked up these past two fights, but the solution is usually not to flip the table and play your own game.

    Musicool on
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    i started high 2400s and am slowly trickling down. i really wanted to main lucio this season but either someone will lock a brig or zen and i feel bad or else the map isn't really conducive to my rolling around.

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat Brave Sir Robin Registered User regular
    Musicool wrote: »
    -Loki- wrote: »
    As a Rein I think the worst feeling is when I go with my whole team of no dive heroes and then we are at the front and my whole team runs in front of the barrier and dies and then the enemy team just walks over me and I am like why do I do this to myself, I should not be the last one to die.

    No, the worst is when you're the last to die as Rein while you were standing on the objective and you didn't see a single one of your teammates die. Where the fuck did you all go?!

    That’s about the time I swap to a DPS because it’s obvious your team is just treating it as a deathmatch And has no interest in playing as a team.

    Might as well shoot some shit while we lose.

    Even in the clusterfucks I tend to stay on Rein because the only possible way I can personally cheese an extra point or two for us is with a godshatter, and that happens just often enough to be worth going for.

    I don't care why you do it Goat, thank you!

    Probably the most predictable and painful switch in OW is when your Reinhardt/Winston lose faith in the team and decide to go third dps or second off-tank. It's like yeah, we all fucked up these past two fights, but the solution is usually not to flip the table and play your own game.

    Well, there are two situations where I will do that:
    If both (or god forbid, all three) of our DPS are flankers, I'm not going to bother Reining. If they're that transparently never going to group with me I'm not going to bother with the shield.
    If I find myself filled with pure Russian rage, a Zarya switch can do wonders because on an on night Zarya is probably the only character I can actually carry with. Will almost instantly be charged off your team running into the meatgrinder so you can get to the murder, gives your flankers extra support to try and get something done, and has a more reliable but slower fight-swinging ult.

    3clipse wrote: »
    God is dead and life has no purpose.
  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    Looks like placement matches are still irrelevant. Weird.

    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Pailryder wrote: »
    i started high 2400s and am slowly trickling down. i really wanted to main lucio this season but either someone will lock a brig or zen and i feel bad or else the map isn't really conducive to my rolling around.

    Don't worry too hard about stuff like that. I marched all the way through the Gold bracket maining Lucio, and there were plenty of Zens with me on the way.

    Also, Zen/Lucio was considered a perfectly viable healer pair back in the day. Also-also, Lucio/Brig are a great pair to just run around being a whole dps/tank/healer team in and of themselves. And besides, that player is probably just trying to dodge main healer duties. Do you really owe it to internet strangers to do something they won't do for you?

    Musicool on
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
    miscellaneousinsanity
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat Brave Sir Robin Registered User regular
    (also if you want to be super meta brig is best with two other healers anyway)

    3clipse wrote: »
    God is dead and life has no purpose.
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Zen/Lucio was a lot more common back in the pure dive meta, esp back when Lucio still had his large aura.

    Since you'd run double mobile dps they could mostly look after themselves, while Lucio could peel for the zen and use E to help heal up the tanks.

    With dive not as strong as it once was, and team fights tending to last longer, Zen/Lucio isn't really that strong compared to other synergies. Now it's more often like Zen/Mercy, or Lucio/Moira, or Lucio/Ana, or some sort of goats comp.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    MusicoolBRIAN BLESSED
  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Kana wrote: »
    Zen/Lucio was a lot more common back in the pure dive meta, esp back when Lucio still had his large aura.

    Since you'd run double mobile dps they could mostly look after themselves, while Lucio could peel for the zen and use E to help heal up the tanks.

    With dive not as strong as it once was, and team fights tending to last longer, Zen/Lucio isn't really that strong compared to other synergies. Now it's more often like Zen/Mercy, or Lucio/Moira, or Lucio/Ana, or some sort of goats comp.

    These are all good reasons to consider other healer duos. At higher ranks.

    At Gold, whatever, as long as the comp is basically acceptable, things like "the meta favours longer fights" just don't matter so much. Unless, I'll admit, those things actually start happening in the match you're playing.

    It's not that I disagree or even think you're making bad points. I don't mean to sound narky either. I just personally found before my climb that discussions about what happens in Diamond weren't just irrelevant they were actively harmful, because I was expecting things that weren't happening, and I was playing heroes that "worked" except that I and my teammates couldn't make them work because we sucked.

    Musicool on
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
  • miscellaneousinsanitymiscellaneousinsanity grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered User regular
    so long as you avoid stacking your ults, zen and lucio can still get work done together

    MusicoolNobody
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Musicool wrote: »
    Kana wrote: »
    Zen/Lucio was a lot more common back in the pure dive meta, esp back when Lucio still had his large aura.

    Since you'd run double mobile dps they could mostly look after themselves, while Lucio could peel for the zen and use E to help heal up the tanks.

    With dive not as strong as it once was, and team fights tending to last longer, Zen/Lucio isn't really that strong compared to other synergies. Now it's more often like Zen/Mercy, or Lucio/Moira, or Lucio/Ana, or some sort of goats comp.

    These are all good reasons to consider other healer duos. At higher ranks.

    At Gold, whatever, as long as the comp is basically acceptable, things like "the meta favours longer fights" just don't matter so much. Unless, I'll admit, those things actually start happening in the match you're playing.

    It's not that I disagree or even think you're making bad points. I don't mean to sound narky either. I just personally found before my climb that discussions about what happens in Diamond weren't just irrelevant they were actively harmful, because I was expecting things that weren't happening, and I was playing heroes that "worked" except that I and my teammates couldn't make them work because we sucked.

    I mean if anything it's that much more reason NOT to run Lucio/Zen at lower levels. Players are worse at protecting themselves, at ending fights quickly, and at efficiently using ults, all of which really makes it tough to run healer comps that depend on those things. At lower tiers you can just run Moira and carry with bulk healing and lots of extra damage.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    Sir Landshark
  • muppetratmuppetrat Registered User new member
    It's quite surprising that people are still talking about overwatch in forums :)

  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Musicool wrote: »
    Kana wrote: »
    Zen/Lucio was a lot more common back in the pure dive meta, esp back when Lucio still had his large aura.

    Since you'd run double mobile dps they could mostly look after themselves, while Lucio could peel for the zen and use E to help heal up the tanks.

    With dive not as strong as it once was, and team fights tending to last longer, Zen/Lucio isn't really that strong compared to other synergies. Now it's more often like Zen/Mercy, or Lucio/Moira, or Lucio/Ana, or some sort of goats comp.

    These are all good reasons to consider other healer duos. At higher ranks.

    At Gold, whatever, as long as the comp is basically acceptable, things like "the meta favours longer fights" just don't matter so much. Unless, I'll admit, those things actually start happening in the match you're playing.

    It's not that I disagree or even think you're making bad points. I don't mean to sound narky either. I just personally found before my climb that discussions about what happens in Diamond weren't just irrelevant they were actively harmful, because I was expecting things that weren't happening, and I was playing heroes that "worked" except that I and my teammates couldn't make them work because we sucked.

    I mean if anything it's that much more reason NOT to run Lucio/Zen at lower levels. Players are worse at protecting themselves, at ending fights quickly, and at efficiently using ults, all of which really makes it tough to run healer comps that depend on those things. At lower tiers you can just run Moira and carry with bulk healing and lots of extra damage.

    Those are all fair arguments, but they had nothing to do with talking about dive back in the day.

    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
  • GethGeth Legion Perseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
    Geth detected banned alias
    Reason: poisonknight, emilyidk, kingdomslayer

    Obsolete technology serves no purpose here.
    muppetrat

    KanaH3KnucklesThe Escape GoatKreutzKoopahTroopahDonnictonFremJackdawGin
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Can you believe there are people who suggest Omnics are bad?

    Dipping my toes into a bunch of other games has me out of the loop on the latest with Overwatch but I really only have one question; has Blizzard made any changes (or announced any) to competitive play at all?

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    Musicool wrote: »
    Kana wrote: »
    Musicool wrote: »
    Kana wrote: »
    Zen/Lucio was a lot more common back in the pure dive meta, esp back when Lucio still had his large aura.

    Since you'd run double mobile dps they could mostly look after themselves, while Lucio could peel for the zen and use E to help heal up the tanks.

    With dive not as strong as it once was, and team fights tending to last longer, Zen/Lucio isn't really that strong compared to other synergies. Now it's more often like Zen/Mercy, or Lucio/Moira, or Lucio/Ana, or some sort of goats comp.

    These are all good reasons to consider other healer duos. At higher ranks.

    At Gold, whatever, as long as the comp is basically acceptable, things like "the meta favours longer fights" just don't matter so much. Unless, I'll admit, those things actually start happening in the match you're playing.

    It's not that I disagree or even think you're making bad points. I don't mean to sound narky either. I just personally found before my climb that discussions about what happens in Diamond weren't just irrelevant they were actively harmful, because I was expecting things that weren't happening, and I was playing heroes that "worked" except that I and my teammates couldn't make them work because we sucked.

    I mean if anything it's that much more reason NOT to run Lucio/Zen at lower levels. Players are worse at protecting themselves, at ending fights quickly, and at efficiently using ults, all of which really makes it tough to run healer comps that depend on those things. At lower tiers you can just run Moira and carry with bulk healing and lots of extra damage.

    Those are all fair arguments, but they had nothing to do with talking about dive back in the day.

    At gold and below, literally any composition can beat any other composition depending on who's playing what, what state of mind they're in, and general luck. I've won using some stupid comps against setups that should have beat us easily, and vice versa. My advice is play the character you feel like you're best with (and like) unless and until you go up against a team that's actively countering you. There's just not nearly enough consistency or predictability in lower levels to spend too much time trying to out-meta the other team.

    If all you want to do is rank up and you don't care who you play, then yeah there are a few characters that are way better at that than others, but if you have a character you feel strong with that you want to play, just do it till it's not working (this is especially true with Lucio, who despite his relative lack of healing can still do a lot of work at lower levels).

    MusicoolPailryder
  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Brutal J wrote: »
    The real problem with the performance system is you have no idea what blizzard thinks are important stats and how much they influence your performance. Take Mei for example. You hit tab and there is no listing for accuracy. It implies Mei's right clicker accuracy doesn't matter at all for performance, yet you can get cards for enemies frozen and damage blocked (damage done to Icewall). The idea that the enemy damaging your wall is more important than right clicking every fool in the head you can see, is incredibly silly. Does it work this way? Who knows?!

    Odds are bastion and torb or Mercy or whoever didn't have their stats properly weighted, but there is no way of knowing that because Blizz rarely talked about it. The only mention i can even remember is there was a patch that lowered the importance of accuracy for Junkrat.
    Endaro wrote: »
    Brutal J wrote: »
    The real problem with the performance system is you have no idea what blizzard thinks are important stats and how much they influence your performance.

    If you're Diamond or above, none of them; they don't use performance stats for rank changes past then. Quite a few people have been asking for Blizzard to extend this down to other ranks for these very reasons.
    Coinage wrote: »
    My high season 9 was 1850, season 10 1900, season 11 2000, and I just broke 2100 this season. The system works! At this rate I only need to spend most to all of my free time playing and I can join OWL in 2023

    I used to be in favor of performance-based skill rankings, but recent discussion has led to me doing a full 180° and coming around to thinking that it may be past due for Blizzard to give up the ghost and just use a binary W/L "pure" Elo system like they do above Diamond.

    We hear again and again how medals and such aren't reliable indicators of your contributions to a team's success chances above a certain minimum skill level (usually in Silver), and if you think about it that makes sense. Like the Mei examples Brutal J gave above. How often do enemy players pour fire into the ice wall, is ice wall damage really a reliable indicator of how much it protected her teammates? How the hell do you even begin to make a meaningful PBSR if you can't meaningfully quantify players' performance in the first place?

    We also have the issue that we have short seasons in part because of how often the game's meta is changed by new characters, character revamps, and other design changes, but PBSR is supposed to mitigate good/bad luck streaks, which requires a high volume of games, making it a grind to make progress. Conversely, there seems to be too much weight given to past seasons in outdated meta, given how consistently people can start new accounts and place into higher brackets than their original account (and reliably stay up there). So the PBSR takes too long for performance adjustments to influence your ratings, and (presumably) as a result it leans too heavily on junk data that is questionably relevant. They compare your performance to averages for the hero, but do they flush old community hero data when they do revamps or balance changes on them?

    While performance-based skill ratings are a nice idea in theory, it's starting to look like it may be impossible for OW to make it work well in practice. You can make it work in that you can climb ranks with steady effort, and I don't have a lot of patience for people who just throw their hands up and bitch about bad teammates rather than focusing on how they themselves can improve, but it feels like designing an optimal PBSR system is an uphill struggle the game doesn't need.

    Mind you, I'm saying all this as a garbage bronze-level player who's unlikely to ever advance much given how infrequently I play; but I'm not complaining that the system isn't placing me where I think I should be (it hit the nail on the head for me, lol). This is all based on what all of you are saying (along with a few discussions and arguments I've seen elsewhere).

    H3Knuckles on
    If you're curious about my icon; it's an update of the early Lego Castle theme's "Black Falcons" faction.
    camo_sig2-400.png
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Henroid wrote: »
    Can you believe there are people who suggest Omnics are bad?

    Dipping my toes into a bunch of other games has me out of the loop on the latest with Overwatch but I really only have one question; has Blizzard made any changes (or announced any) to competitive play at all?

    Well, we've say waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more bad robots than good ones.

    And one of the good ones is a religious zealot.

    The other may kill you any second.

    The monk guy apparently took 11 years to evac, so he was clearly in on the hit. He probably had a backup.

    There's the Talon one.

    All the Bastion units are obviously bad. Ditto all the other types that came along with them.

    In case it wasn't clear from all the war and stuff, it seems AI was a mistake in OW.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • Beyond NormalBeyond Normal Lord Phender Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Last night I wasn't feeling well so I ate a bunch of Thai food and took a nap. I woke up with the intention of doing my weekly arcade matches. I like to do Total Mayhem for my arcade games but it wasn't available and instead of waiting for tomorrow's list I just played Mystery Heroes. Anywhoozle, an hour and a half later I got them all done, and during that time I only got one play of the game. It was as Lucio on Eichenwalde defense. I guess we know where this is going. ROLL THE TAPE!

    edit: the video cuts off at the end, but I boop a Symm and a Widow at the end.

    Beyond Normal on
    Battle.net: Phender#1108 -- Steam: Phender -- PS4: Phender12 -- Origin: Phender01
    H3KnucklesChancePailryderdavidsdurions
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    New patch - Busan now available, they insist they've fixed Rein's shatter and charge again (should no longer pin targets behind the charging Rein), and now Brigitte will get knocked down when she bashes a Doomfist or Rein out of rocket punch/charge.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
    H3Knucklesjammu
  • TexiKenTexiKen 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6-Pack Yes! Registered User regular
    More Bridget nerfs plz.

    Your Overwatch had an interview with a top500 player about how Bridget is, and he brought up a nice way to sum her up (paraphrase) "she's too easy a solution for too much skill." America is the greatest but in the OW World Cup it was kinda weak to see Sinatraa switch to Bridget when needed just to make things work. A good check would be to just knock 25 HP off or make her a sloooow support (that would be new) and reduce her instant heal range.

    Q8ghZFx.png
    Chance
  • miscellaneousinsanitymiscellaneousinsanity grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered User regular
    i don't think brig needs a rework per se, but i'd lop two or three hundred health off her shield

  • KreutzKreutz Registered User regular
    Her Shield Bash definitely needs some attention. It's an instant interrupt that starts from behind a shield and can be followed up with a knockback, damage, or more shield. That's a whole lot of safe options.

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    i don't think brig needs a rework per se, but i'd lop two or three hundred health off her shield

    As a McCree main, I live in terror of that shield. 6 shots at range won't break that thing. The only hope I have against a Brig with full health is a flashbang a foot to her side, scoring a headshot, and then backing away trying to land a second. I've got a 1 in 4 chance of winning.

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    I want to see a pumpkin skin for Hammond for the Halloween event. And I want a victory pose where he's nibbling on pumpkin seeds.

    McMoogleH3Knuckles
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    More Bridget nerfs plz.

    Your Overwatch had an interview with a top500 player about how Bridget is, and he brought up a nice way to sum her up (paraphrase) "she's too easy a solution for too much skill." America is the greatest but in the OW World Cup it was kinda weak to see Sinatraa switch to Bridget when needed just to make things work. A good check would be to just knock 25 HP off or make her a sloooow support (that would be new) and reduce her instant heal range.


    Or they could you know stand back and murder her from range because she's got literally one ranged attack on a long cool down that doesn't punch through shields. And barely functions as a healer at range.

    DevoutlyApatheticTim is on the InternetFremReynoldsKwoaruRedTideBRIAN BLESSED
  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    What if shield bash put her ability to shield on CD?

    I agree that there should be more decision making to her abilities. Her skill floor is super high right now.

    Please consider the environment before printing this post.
    BionicPenguinKanamiscellaneousinsanity
This discussion has been closed.