The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.

[US Federal Congressional Elections 2018] Tester Wins, AZ/FL Too Close

1114115116118120

Posts

  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Like Pelosi using a boring quote from Reagan about treating immigrants nicely is being used as evidence that she needs to go, and that seems kind of odd to me given the job of House Minority Leader/House Majority Leader usually isn't to be a bomb thrower and we already know what her positions on immigration and what she is probably willing to agree to are.

    I don't need her to be a bomb thrower, but promising bipartisanship is fucking ridiculous at this point. I don't want to vote Ally with the guys that have never once refrained from repeatedly jamming the Betray button. You don't have to get up there and say, "We were elected to obstruct you, lol get fucked", just maybe don't say you're going to try and work with the white supremacists?

    Do you want the narrative of the entire house (that is, CNN, NBC, ABC, etc) to be "Pelosi stateswoman, stands for things!" Or "something something shrill something something"?

    We know what Pelosi wants. We know her values, and we know she's good at her job. She's a professional; she isn't going to shit on Trump's Dinner on the floor, she'll do it in the kitchen.

    Let's be honest, she's going to be called shrill and hysterical regardless of what she does. Standing up and undercutting progressive enthusiasm by promising to use her position to encourage bipartisanship instead of just... not saying that's what she would use it for is an unforced error.

    I just hate seeing Democrats win and then immediately and with no provocation get back to being comfortable and thinking this time the Prisoner's Dilemma is going to work out for them when they vote Ally. This time, for sure!

    But I'm not interested in getting kicked from the thread for being negative, so that's all I'll say on it.

    Did McConnell talking about bipartisanship in 2014 and 2017 undercut conservative enthusiasm? Why are progressives so unique that generic statements of bipartisanship kill their enthusiasm but not that of conservatives?

    Everyone knows McConnell is lying out his ass when he talks about bipartisanship, though

    So is Pelosi! :)

    I'll need to see evidence of that. Senate Majority Minority Leader keeps making "deals" with McConnell, who never fails to renege on it immediately after the period ends the sentence.

    It's an important distinction.

    I don't know what you're talking about! Stop putting words in my mouth!

    LxX6eco.jpg
    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Javen wrote: »
    So Republicans won’t believe it, because they’re so obviously lying when they say it so why would it be any different when we do?

    And Democrats SHOULDNT believe it because she totally has her fingers crossed behind her back.

    So, yeah. Sounds like a very effective speech.

    Because our news media is fucking awful, and expects Proper Decourm.

    Fencingsax on
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    So Republicans won’t believe it, because they’re so obviously lying when they say it so why would it be any different when we do?

    And Democrats SHOULDNT believe it because she totally has her fingers crossed behind her back.

    So, yeah. Sounds like a very effective speech.

    It's not for us. It's for the large chunk of the US who still thinks bipartisan is a good in and of itself.

    This way she can do shit like pass ACA expansion and DACA protection and go "Well the Republicans Refused to Compromise"

    Pelosi ain't Schumer.

  • KnightKnight Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Like Pelosi using a boring quote from Reagan about treating immigrants nicely is being used as evidence that she needs to go, and that seems kind of odd to me given the job of House Minority Leader/House Majority Leader usually isn't to be a bomb thrower and we already know what her positions on immigration and what she is probably willing to agree to are.

    I don't need her to be a bomb thrower, but promising bipartisanship is fucking ridiculous at this point. I don't want to vote Ally with the guys that have never once refrained from repeatedly jamming the Betray button. You don't have to get up there and say, "We were elected to obstruct you, lol get fucked", just maybe don't say you're going to try and work with the white supremacists?

    Do you want the narrative of the entire house (that is, CNN, NBC, ABC, etc) to be "Pelosi stateswoman, stands for things!" Or "something something shrill something something"?

    We know what Pelosi wants. We know her values, and we know she's good at her job. She's a professional; she isn't going to shit on Trump's Dinner on the floor, she'll do it in the kitchen.

    Let's be honest, she's going to be called shrill and hysterical regardless of what she does. Standing up and undercutting progressive enthusiasm by promising to use her position to encourage bipartisanship instead of just... not saying that's what she would use it for is an unforced error.

    I just hate seeing Democrats win and then immediately and with no provocation get back to being comfortable and thinking this time the Prisoner's Dilemma is going to work out for them when they vote Ally. This time, for sure!

    But I'm not interested in getting kicked from the thread for being negative, so that's all I'll say on it.

    Did McConnell talking about bipartisanship in 2014 and 2017 undercut conservative enthusiasm? Why are progressives so unique that generic statements of bipartisanship kill their enthusiasm but not that of conservatives?

    Everyone knows McConnell is lying out his ass when he talks about bipartisanship, though

    So is Pelosi! :)

    I'll need to see evidence of that. Senate Majority Minority Leader keeps making "deals" with McConnell, who never fails to renege on it immediately after the period ends the sentence.

    It's an important distinction.

    I don't know what you're talking about! Stop putting words in my mouth!

    The minority leader is in the minority and thus has no actual ability to do anything? Pelosi will now again be the 2nd most powerful person in the US Government. She ain't gotta compromise for shit because all roads lead through her gavel.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Javen wrote: »
    So Republicans won’t believe it, because they’re so obviously lying when they say it so why would it be any different when we do?

    And Democrats SHOULDNT believe it because she totally has her fingers crossed behind her back.

    So, yeah. Sounds like a very effective speech.

    Outright admitting the obvious is considered very rude a lot of the time.

    It is the same reason she didn't say, "We are going to get pretty much jack shit enacted legislation wise and all of our attempts at getting them to agree on some things where both parties nominally agree like with the opium epidemic and infrastructure will come to naught."

    Couscous on
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    So Republicans won’t believe it, because they’re so obviously lying when they say it so why would it be any different when we do?

    And Democrats SHOULDNT believe it because she totally has her fingers crossed behind her back.

    So, yeah. Sounds like a very effective speech.

    It's not for us. It's for the large chunk of the US who still thinks bipartisan is a good in and of itself.

    This way she can do shit like pass ACA expansion and DACA protection and go "Well the Republicans Refused to Compromise"

    Pelosi ain't Schumer.

    I feel like they could have done that anyway.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Central OhioRegistered User regular
    Pence is going to need a waiver to sit next to Pelosi at the SOTU

    l7ygmd1dd4p1.jpeg
    3b2y43dozpk3.jpeg
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    So, re: Tester (would have said something earlier, but am currently at Disneyland with my wife, so...yeah):

    I'm not terribly surprised he won. Fagg dealt Rosendale a mortal blow in the primary with the Maryland Matt moniker, which the Democrats ran with, along with hammering him on healthcare (turns out, being an insurance commissioner who supported insurers over the insured isn't going to win you friends.) Meanwhile, the GOP position went from "hey, Trump likes Rosendale" to "fuck the Democrats, it doesn't matter who our candidate is." I'm not joking - the last few weeks, there weren't any pro-Rosendale ads, just anti-Tester ones.

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I think that, by and large, people don't elect politicans to make dramatic gestures, they elect them to make things better. Very few people voted yesterday so their rep could go to Washington and be obstructionist, even though that is basically what's going to happen.

    The best thing dems can do right now is figure out what their voters want, craft legislation that gives it to them, pass it in the house, then make a big stink when it crashes and burns in the Senate. The narrative needs to be "dems are trying to work with pubs, but they're being shitbirds."

    Pelosi 's statement is consistent with that.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Nancy Pelosi has never met an opportunity she couldn't squander.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Nancy Pelosi has never met an opportunity she couldn't squander.

    Like the 111th Congress. We didn't do anything there.

  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    I'm so sick of this shit. Are we done here? Can we talk about recounts or elections that haven't been called yet?

  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    There are reports now that the digital voting machines at 7 Broward County locations completely failed to transmit data and their results are being manually delivered to Tallahassee via thumb drives.

    Broward county is a very dense, very blue area north of Miami (holding Ft. Lauderdale and a number of other cities).

    Wow that could give a ton of votes potentially to the dems
    Phasen wrote: »
    Florida why you gotta do this to me?

    The chads are not going to hang themselves haha. I hope they can get their voting stuff sorted out I am curious how many broward votes this effects because that could be pretty big for the dem candidates.

  • minor incidentminor incident you can't swim when you've been dead a hundred yearsRegistered User, Transition Team regular
    To help with a little of the Doom and gloom (and because I'm proud of my state), here's a good infographic on what this election did to NJ's House seats.

    yhefcdtbaah5.jpg

    Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
  • CogCog What'd you expect? Registered User regular
    Pence is going to need a waiver to sit next to Pelosi at the SOTU

    I was desperately mousing over this hoping there was an actual link. :sad:

  • Fallout2manFallout2man Vault Dweller Registered User regular
    Well, I'm not sure how I feel. On the upside we won the house federally, and the governor's office here in Cali, but all of my candidates I was following lost.

    On Ignorance:
    Kana wrote:
    If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"

    Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Come on Arizona, do something right this time!

    We have allotta making up to do for Arpio, we need to put Sinema in office!

    steam_sig.png

    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    Looks like Mia Love was ousted in Utah 4th (D pickup)

    11793-1.png
    day9gosu.png
    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    And Nelson is going to party like its 1999+1


    Someone hit the Marc Elias signal

    11793-1.png
    day9gosu.png
    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    BTW, Warren won by 24, you worrywarts.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • Spaten OptimatorSpaten Optimator Smooth Operator Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I think that, by and large, people don't elect politicans to make dramatic gestures, they elect them to make things better. Very few people voted yesterday so their rep could go to Washington and be obstructionist, even though that is basically what's going to happen.

    The best thing dems can do right now is figure out what their voters want, craft legislation that gives it to them, pass it in the house, then make a big stink when it crashes and burns in the Senate. The narrative needs to be "dems are trying to work with pubs, but they're being shitbirds."

    Pelosi 's statement is consistent with that.

    That didn't work out very well last time Democrats tried it (see 2010 onward).

    Party leadership isn't capable of figuring out what their voters want as long as they're willing to subvert those wants when they conflict with the aims of the donor class. Hell, Pelosi just cited her ability to raise money as the reason she should be speaker again.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    She isn't actually Speaker yet

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    She isn't actually Speaker yet

    Most of the challengers are to her right.

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User, Transition Team regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    She isn't actually Speaker yet

    Most of the challengers are to her right.

    So is most of the electorate

  • PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    I live just north of Diehl's hometown which made me more worried. It was within 5% in my town, and Diehl won some of the suburbs to our south. It was still the closest statewide (all of were up) or federal race in the state.

    ed
    Correction Keating only won by 20

    PantsB on
    11793-1.png
    day9gosu.png
    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know TexasRegistered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    She isn't actually Speaker yet

    Most of the challengers are to her right.

    So is most of the electorate

    I keep hearing this as some sort of maxim that mostly derives from the right's need for someone to use as a whipping boy but I'll be damned if I could actually tell you her personal position on anything.

    FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
    Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
    Fuck Joe Manchin
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    From what I can see Democrats had two areas of strength:

    1) Suburban areas
    2) Soybean farms

    ...what?

    The soybean farmers, among others, who are getting rather turbofucked because of Trump's stupid trade war with other countries. Prices are going down and supply is going up, and they're barely going to make a profit this year because of that.

    Ah, gotcha

    Yeah that hasn't actually hit yet, or at least not badly enough to make most of them realize their boy Trump turbofucked them for no reason.

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    She isn't actually Speaker yet

    Most of the challengers are to her right.

    So is most of the electorate

    This I don't think os accurate TBH.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    From what I can see Democrats had two areas of strength:

    1) Suburban areas
    2) Soybean farms

    ...what?

    The soybean farmers, among others, who are getting rather turbofucked because of Trump's stupid trade war with other countries. Prices are going down and supply is going up, and they're barely going to make a profit this year because of that.

    Ah, gotcha

    Yeah that hasn't actually hit yet, or at least not badly enough to make most of them realize their boy Trump turbofucked them for no reason.

    Most of the articles I've read have them aware of it, but still trump supporters hoping he'll change course. There are other industries that are in this line of fire that haven't gotten it as bad but will be soon if things stay the way they are.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    I caught myself wondering if Trump was going to tone down the trade wars now that he'll be battling on both foreign and domestic fronts. That was silly of me.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Ilpala wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    She isn't actually Speaker yet

    Most of the challengers are to her right.

    So is most of the electorate

    I keep hearing this as some sort of maxim that mostly derives from the right's need for someone to use as a whipping boy but I'll be damned if I could actually tell you her personal position on anything.

    She's pretty left on most stuff but as the pragmatic leader of a biiiiiiiig tent ideologically she doesn't often show it.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    She isn't actually Speaker yet

    Most of the challengers are to her right.

    So is most of the electorate

    I thought there was no national popular vote?

    ACsTqqK.jpg
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    People seem to be reading Pelosi's statements as meaning she won't do any investigations into GOP wrongdoing which is not at all what I got from her speech.

    Pelosi is the best legislator of her generation (otherwise, maybe Waxman), and the best Speaker we've seen in two. I'mma go out on a limb and guess that she might know what she's doing.

    Hyperbole! I'm not sure she would compare all that favorably in comparison with either Gingritch or Tip O'Neill. There are other problems as well but we'll need a new thread to go into them I think.

    "Best" or "effective" I suppose is the question... Gingrich would get no prizes for overall behaviour and his complicity in causing government shutdowns, destruction of norms etc are broadly regarded as extremely corrosive and Not Good by most political scientists

    I think one could regard Gingrich as very effect if one viewed his job as destroying the american republic. It's basically him and McConnell competing for the title.

  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    This is the coolest fucking graph:



    Harris is a journalist at Vulture and other places

    ACsTqqK.jpg
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    To go with above Nate Cohn did a good job writing this up as well.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/07/upshot/2018-midterms-blue-wave-democrats.html

    shil1e02lnzh.png

    Edit: I fixed the picture because the NYT sucks at letting me copy graphics.

    Mazzyx on
    u7stthr17eud.png
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    That's a graph that isn't fucking labeled at all.

  • PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    ITT, Infographics that are incredibly unclear to me

    11793-1.png
    day9gosu.png
    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    That's cute, with the wave and all, but not actually a very good graph.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    To go with above Nate Cohn did a good job writing this up as well.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/07/upshot/2018-midterms-blue-wave-democrats.html

    wave-chart-Artboard_1.png

    How do I read this?

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Dems got more votes for the House in North Carolina by about 100k, lose 9 of 12 seats.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
This discussion has been closed.