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[DnD 5E] It's not that kind of Warlord.

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Posts

  • AbbalahAbbalah Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    I just wish that we were getting some nee adventure content instead of rehasehed adventure content. And the reason we are has nothing to do with the system and everything to do with the fact that the team is small and writing is hard

    My point is that the team is small and the system is the way that it is for the same reason.

    JustTeeElvenshaeMsAnthropy
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    I dont think that ia the case. 5e is well designed and would have have been better for being more complicated or having more designers

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  • AbbalahAbbalah Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    I dont think that ia the case. 5e is well designed and would have have been better for being more complicated or having more designers

    It's not, but that isn't the point either. Nothing I've said here requires the design to be bad. All I've said is that it was designed with a particular set of goals in mind, those goals changed, and now decisions that were made to meet the original goals are creating stumbling blocks for the new ones. It was created with a small team and designed in a way that limited how much mechanical space there was to create new content - both of which made sense in an environment where the objective was, presumably, to release only a small amount of content. Now they've realized that there's a market for more content, so they want to create a lot of content, but they are limited by the size of their team and their previous design choices, and those things are dictating the amount and type of content we get as a result.

    JustTeeSCREECH OF THE FARGMsAnthropy
  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    I think a mechanically simple system was the point after 4e, and the increased popularity and sales are also a product of that. Sure the Podcasting and other advertising & tie-ins helped (there's seldom one sole reason for a property's success or failure), but being able to bring new players in with minimal fuss and have them understand the basic core concepts of the game after a single sessions is a pretty compelling feature. And one that I don't think limits their ability to write content; they could (if they wanted) continue to write splatbooks & campaign settings for the various regions of Forgotten Realms and not run out of content for years. You have a point that due to these constraints there's less ability to write more and more tables of things like circumstantial bonuses, but I think less is more in this case.

    飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
    SteelhawkSleepoverride367IvelliusNyht
  • KayKay What we need... Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered User regular
    Maaaaan, I miss 4e.

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    3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
    JPantswebguy20ElvenshaePowerpuppiesJustTeeMsAnthropyCantideTiamatZRonin356
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    edited March 19
    I don't think you need a more mechanically varied system to introduce/represent more benefits and abilities to classes and such. I also do not think sticking to the mechanics they already decided on is hampering them from giving us new content.

    Advantage and Disadvantage is such a clean, simple and fun system. Just because many different abilities give you advantage does not mean they are the same and boring. While the end of result of, say, getting Advantage on an attack is the same as every other character out there.... they way my Barbarian gets it is different from how your Rogue gets it. And is different again from how his Monk gets and how her Paladin get it. I think that's the great thing about 5e. It allows flavour and variety to shine through from players and creators alike while distilling all of them into a neat, mechanically consistent package.

    I also do not think that sticking with adv/disadv. as a core mechanic stymies creativity from the D&D team, I think it would free them up to not have to keep coming up with new and more complicated mechanics. That was where 3.5 met its end for me, and where 4e required 100s and 100s of very expensive pages to keep giving you new and different powers. No thank you. Give me world building and adventures any day vs. power creep and rules bloat.

    Steelhawk on
    Nipsoverride367Moridin889MrVyngaard
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Kay wrote: »
    Maaaaan, I miss 4e.

    There was a lot to enjoy about 4e, especially late-edition 4e. However, I think the streamlined nature of 5e lends itself better to the liveplay that has popularlized D&D on Twitch.

    ...That said, even 5e sucks compared to, like, literally any PbtA game where combat is fast and narrative-driven.

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    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
    NipsMsAnthropy
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited March 19
    Man even I gotta agree they kinda game designed themselves into a corner. They were totally trying to deliver a product that could be all of D&D in a starter box and 3 maybe 5 books cause yeah at the end of 4e, D&D was basically shelved. They stopped having the financial backing that they had before, and they got a skeleton crew, and they seemingly didn't expect much support from hasbro in the future and they weren't sure about future success either. So yeah they made the core 3 cover as much of the design space as possible by simplifying the game a bunch and then made a story about dragon cults aaaannnnd...

    whoopsie everyone fuckin loves it, turns out a really easy to run game where you can cover a bunch of concepts with the core books and a very little bit of effort that relies on mostly unified bonuses that don't stack and don't have a bunch of bonus math explosion is what tons of people wanted.

    Now the product line is selling like hot cakes and they want to expand it, but they're running into an issue where the math doesn't allow for much variation from the core mechanics without violating the ease of use and complexity reduction the system is based on.

    It's why they are having such trouble finding the magic with artificer. Like one of the best pieces of design on it so far is arcane weapon, and it is quite nakedly a hex/hunters mark clone. 1st level spell for A d6 of extra damage on your attacks so long as you maintain concentration, higher slots let you concentrate longer. The twist is you don't have to use your bonus action to mark a target with it. They had to make that twist because they knew the base class features use up the bonus action resource. The missed bit of genius would have been making the spell target a weapon instead of self.

    Like making sub classes is moderately easy, but creating a totally separate base class that doesn't step in the design space of other classes is difficult.

    From a player content perspective a lot of abilities are going to functionally act the same at some levels because a reduction in complexity is a design goal of the system. It's impossible to look at arcane weapon and not see the DNA of hex it was built off of.

    Thing is... none of that is bad. The simplistic design is one of the reasons it succeeded! We apparently wanted a more trim system that didn't have tons of different bonuses and exploding math on accuracy. I think player content for 5e is always going to be slow rolling, and I think that's a conscious decision both because that reduces game bloat, and because it's hard as fuck to design more content for the system. They accidentally made a mostly complete game first time through, and most expansion outside of sub classes and setting specific backgrounds is hard to do without fuckin with some of the base complexity goals of the system.

    It's why the larger volume of content has been, and will likely continue to be adventures.

    They seem to have found 2 particular adventure formats they like:

    expansive campaigns with a consistently running plot pulling characters from location to location like dragon heist, curse of strahd, or princes of the apocalypse. They sometimes retread old grounds here like the tomb of annihilation, but they aren't straight rewrites of old adventures usually.

    And

    Old school anthologies. Like tales from the yawning portal or ghosts of saltmarsh. Taking older adventure's and just updating them to 5e.

    If they are expanding their teams then I'd kindof start expecting more adventure content of these 2 types almost running parallel because the player base they compete over doesn't have a ton of overlap. I bought yawning portal almost exclusively for white plume and I'm pretty much an assured ghosts of saltmarsh purchase. I've not really bought any of the major adventures because I have little need for a bottom to top cohesive plot. I write my own. What I can use are mostly self contained adventure locations and dungeons that I can fit into my broader plots with little work. So products like yawning portal and saltmarsh are like laser focused on folks like myself that want to have a concrete short adventure to slip into a more self written campaign.

    Sleep on
  • SchadenfreudeSchadenfreude Mean Mister Mustard Registered User regular
    There's word on the rumour mill that there'll be a new setting announced at Gamehole Con.
    https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/03/dd-an-unannounced-new-setting-is-coming-to-dd.html

    Feel free to speculate wildly.

    One of my DMs is convinced it's going to be Dragonlance - it's the 35th anniversary and Margaret Weis was seen in or around the WotC offices and they just had her on Dragon Talk. The maniacs on the internet are crying out for Spelljammer but that way madness lies.

    Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe
    ArcanisTheImpotent
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    There's word on the rumour mill that there'll be a new setting announced at Gamehole Con.
    https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/03/dd-an-unannounced-new-setting-is-coming-to-dd.html

    Feel free to speculate wildly.

    One of my DMs is convinced it's going to be Dragonlance - it's the 35th anniversary and Margaret Weis was seen in or around the WotC offices and they just had her on Dragon Talk. The maniacs on the internet are crying out for Spelljammer but that way madness lies.

    Literally both my guesses right there.

    Dragonlance would make a bunch of sense from a nostalgia angle that 5e loves cashing in on, and yeah to my understanding the creators had been visibly in contact with wizards.

    I just fuckin want spelljammer cause it sounds nuts and i wanna run a farscape like d&d campaign with weird planet hopping.

    override367italianranmaArcanisTheImpotentMrVyngaard
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    I don't think arcane weapon is even close to the most interesting thing about artificer, the humonculous or the infusions are far more interesting

    I played it in a one shot on Sunday and loved it, I have a few notes about scaling where it desperately needs it (the turrets dont scale at all), and the infusion "Replicate Magic Item" locking you into one single specific magic item until you level up is pretty lame (when I was running it, I misread it, and believed that once you made an item, you had to make a different one the next time you used the infusion, and couldn't make two of the same thing unless you picked that infusion twice - which makes for a much cooler artificer! You feel like an inventor experimenting.

    "oh you get... a jug that produces mayonnaise? I guess, oh this cape lets you swim, the rogue might like that for diving"

    And then the next day I make a new set of magic items, it was a LOT of fun

    Enc
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited March 19
    I don't think arcane weapon is even close to the most interesting thing about artificer, the humonculous or the infusions are far more interesting

    I played it in a one shot on Sunday and loved it, I have a few notes about scaling where it desperately needs it (the turrets dont scale at all), and the infusion "Replicate Magic Item" locking you into one single specific magic item until you level up is pretty lame (when I was running it, I misread it, and believed that once you made an item, you had to make a different one the next time you used the infusion, and couldn't make two of the same thing unless you picked that infusion twice - which makes for a much cooler artificer! You feel like an inventor experimenting.

    "oh you get... a jug that produces mayonnaise? I guess, oh this cape lets you swim, the rogue might like that for diving"

    And then the next day I make a new set of magic items, it was a LOT of fun

    Infusions are cool, but still need rounding out. There's a whole bunch more they could have done with that feature both mechanically and flavor wise. I understand why it's simply a "touch the item after a long rest to make it magic", but it should require more time to tinker with the item to infuse it with magic. As well there should just flat out be more options for magic item replication including armors and weapons that, while magical, don't necessarily contribute to bonus advancement, though those could also be their own entries like the resistant armor infusion. I definitely like what it's throwing down as far as infusions go, but it needs a bit more work.

    I still dislike the homunculus as a feature rather than an expanded familiar available to the alchemist only (like warlocks can get imps quasits or fairy dragons as familiars). However I do like the underlying mechanism of the inventions being bonus action controlled class features that are fueled by spell power. Honestly I'd much rather an alchemist be using a bonus action to produce various potions fueled by spell levels giving them the ability to distribute buffs in a way other classes can't because they circumvent concentration concerns. Like an alchemist being able to bonus action + x spell levels expended whip out a potion of speed or potion of flying or potion of healing would be kinda dope. However I get that they're trying to go for artificer being a dedicated pet class that uses its bonus action to command the pet so I get why the homunculus is a whole feature rather than just a super dope familiar (making it a familiar would literally only make it a stronger feature, and by all conceptual standards it's a mechanical familiar).

    Unfortunately I'd peg it as possibly the worst piece of design in the whole class. It poorly replicates an easily recognizable already existing spell thus that using the spell as part of the design would provide a far more useful feature that's more consistent with the rest of the game. I get why the homunculus is fun to play with and is a satisfying capability to have, but I dislike its implementation from a mechanical standpoint considering prior design decisions in the system. It's inconsistent with their entire design ethos so far, and in a way that kinda needlessly increases complexity. The homunculus operates basically as a familiar that's less responsive and less leveragable but heartier and with 3 buffing actions a day.

    The turrets are slightly better because they are more their own mechanic that's operating unlike other summoning spells. Summoning spells that would pull in a similar creature would require concentration as a minimum, and would likely be higher on the level curve than would be available at 3rd level. As well the capability of the turret user increases with later sub class features. They are very much your core invention and you get better at using them as you level. They have a bit of an issue with scaling on an individual basis but being able to grab 2 at once at later levels kinda helps with that.

    Overall the core idea of the inventions (bonus action abilities that can be and are fueled by spells) is an interesting one that I think they should definitely run with, but I find both current implementations a little lack luster. I think there's far more individualistic stuff you could actually do with that concept rather than "its always a pet", but even if it's gonna be a pet don't make it a lack luster version of a pet option that already exists, or if it absolutely has to... just have it use that existing option but expanded like druids implementation of polymorph for wild shape. Again i understand why the homunculus is a powerful feature and does cool stuff. I understand how it can be fun on the table no problem. However fron a consistency of design standpoint its pretty bad.

    Arcane weapon is the best piece of design because it figured out how to remain consistent with other similar bonuses with the slightest of twists. It falls right into the hex/hunters mark damage bonus family quite obviously, but in a way that's flavorful to the artificer concept (just constant quick and dirty short term weapon enchantment), and complimentary to its specific class features (doesn't compete for the bonus action resource that inventions use). It provides a similar bonus with a necessary functional change so a specific class could use it. Unfortunately it misses the fact that the artificer is often primarily a team buffer and has it target self rather than the weapon itself.

    Sleep on
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Kay wrote: »
    Maaaaan, I miss 4e.

    You can still play 4e. (I still play 4e)

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    davidsdurionsNips
  • KhildithKhildith Registered User regular
    edited March 19
    Long post incoming! I had my first PC 'deaths' last night and I'm going to do a breakdown of what I thought would happen versus what did happen.

    We're playing Storm King's Thunder and the party is level 7. They're extremely high powered, generally think and play very tactically, and have a diverse group of classes and races that have let them handily stomp any problem I've thrown at them. I think I may have been a little overconfident on their behalf.

    I was running a DM's Guild Module called "Kraken's Gamble" that I had adapted pretty heavily. I'm going to spoiler the setup because my players still technically might run into some of these elements.

    THE SETUP AND WHAT I EXPECTED TO HAPPEN:

    THE SETUP

    In Kraken's Gamble the party is put on the trail of the mysterious disappearance of several young male nobles. All of them were last seen in the company of a woman in a purple dress, who frequents a gambling ship called The Grand Dame. She is doing something to make them compliant and then leading them somewhere secluded from where they never emerge.

    The party is expected to investigate these missing people, find the woman in the purple dress and either follow her or interrogate her to find out about a plot taking place in the sewers of Yartar. Under pressure the purple lady will reveal that whoever she delivers the noblemen to has powerful psychic powers, but when she attempts to speak her master's name she is struck dead by the psychic pressure of Slarkrathel, The Kraken.

    Knowing something is afoot the party explores the sewers and stumbles upon the lair of Oosith the Aboleth, who will speak to them psychically once aware of them and if anyone responds he learns their greatest desires and can use that against them. Fighting an Aboleth in its lair is a dicey proposition but built into the arena is a way to drain it of water, using a mechanic established firmly earlier in the adventure. An Aboleth facing the prospect of a fight that it isn't 100% sure it can win will likely flee, so almost certainly the fight won't be to the death!

    WHAT I EXPECTED TO HAPPEN:

    1. The party learns the quest hook, either from overhearing people talking about it in town, via the families of the missing contacting them or because they're chasing a specific magic item and I've conveniently placed it in the Aboleth's Lair.

    2. The party investigates the hook, contacts the noblemen's family, uses divination, talks to their Harper contact in town, or otherwise gains the information in a way I didn't expect. They learn about the 'purple lady' and the gambling boat. If I can I'll lace some hints that something is stealing the wills of the victims, depending on how they learn the info. I want them to be aware that psychic slavery is a thing that could happen.

    3. Either the party infiltrates the boat and plays some gambling mini-games, interacts or threatens the purple lady, or other shenanigans, or they wait for and confront/follow the purple lady and learn about the sewers situation.

    4. A trip into the sewers. Aware now that something is taking the wills of the poor victims they eventually have a confrontation with the Aboleth, killing it or chasing it from the city and recovering proof that it had been responsible for the kidnappings. It was taking the victims so it could consume them and gain all their memories, allowing it to aid an ally in taking over control of the city using blackmail or other privileged information gained this way.

    WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED:
    1. The party visited their Harper contact in the city looking for information. They were looking for a man named Harthal and the Giant Slayer Greatsword he carries. Unfortunately for them that Harper contact had a pretty good idea what happened to their quarry, Harthal had been hired to look into the disappearances of several young noblemen and then vanished himself. The contact knows that Harthal was looking into the gambling boat and the purple lady, but never got briefed beyond that. (so far so good)

    2. The party investigates the hook! They go to the Inn room of the missing adventurer and find his journal! Instead of reading it a player interrupts me while I was describing its contents to say he put it in his bag without checking it closely. (Oh well they know about the purple lady and can learn everything from alternate sources, no big loss)

    3. A party member remembers that in a previous adventure they had seen signs of someone moving about in the sewer system (uh oh) and they all decide that they should check that out right away. They can come back later to investigate the river boat. (uhhh, I guess I can't argue with that! They've jumped the tracks on the plot but they're going where I thought they would, just early! Not the end of the world, I just need to be sure they learn about the mind control and see the lever/wheel water drain system before the big fight)

    4. The party encounters some Kuo-Toa who are clearly controlled by an outside force, described as having dull eyes and fighting mindlessly. A few of the Kuo-Toa escape and warn the Aboleth that meddling heroes are around. They fiddle around with some water levers/wheels and learn how to raise and lower water levels in the sewers.
    The party also encounters an Otyugh nest absolutely full of the remnants of fancy clothing and they realize they're accidentally in the right place. A psychic voice warns them not to get too close to the Otyugh without feeding it first.

    5. Now for where things go off the rails. The Aboleth, having contacted the party in a friendly way, gets everyone to respond back, learning all their deepest desires. They have a nice chat where it tries to warn them off from such a dangerous area. Eventually the aboleth decides that one of them might be useful and offers him power, luxury, and a life free of restraints if he instead came a little deeper into the sewers alone. THE PLAYER AGREES TO DO SO. Oh god. He ditches his allies and finds himself alone in an aboleth's lair, with enemies all around him. He gets enslaved and told to make his friends leave, then return by himself.

    6. He begins the climb out of the lair via an iron ladder when his fellow party members catch up, all leaping into the lair with slowfall. The party picks up instantly that he has been enslaved and a well timed Protection From Good and Evil spell allows him to throw off the enslavement. But now they've trickled into an aware Aboleth's lair with no prep, no surprise, no plan, no pre-buffing. Toward the center of the room stands a figure in a heavy robe with a large hood hiding his face. The party assumes this to the source of the voice, but are unfortunately wrong, its Harthal, who has been thoroughly enslaved to the Aboleth's will. It orders them to leave, but also demands the party member he enslaved stay, as they have struck a deal. The party insists on fighting instead of fleeing and....

    7. It didn't go well. By the end of combat two characters had to be left behind while two others fled for their lives, carrying the now unconscious but free Harthal. Oosith taunted the survivors as they fled that he would make their allies his slaves, and soon everything will belong to the Kraken.

    SO now we are rolling two new characters, the previous two are both unconscious, soon to be enslaved, diseased so they can't breathe air and take acid damage when not in the water, and trapped with the Aboleth and its minions. One of them can break the charm at will but knows he will die pretty soon after that so he is holding out, watching from a window is his mind, waiting for a chance to turn the tide. The other is pretty much screwed unless someone rescues him. A pretty good place to retire them for now.

    Khildith on
    override367SleepdavidsdurionsSmrtnikDecatusGrobianMalakaiusDaPaladinmildlymorbid
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    2 weak turrets at higher level is unquestionably worse than just having one turret scale, from a "not annoying your other players with piles of pets" standpoint

    I feel like the turrets are pretty easy to balance. Damaging turrets: 1d8 damage, buff turret 1d8 buff, level 5: 2d8, level 11: 3d8, etc

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 19
    Now that I think about it, I think the best way to handle the magical creations of the artificer is that they roll on the table to determine what item they get (since they're prototyping). Once created an item is permanent, until they need to reclaim that infusion slot, but its on the player to describe how they created the item

    It requires a DM to just let you make shit up. If you're in a game where you say "I pull out a small screw and screw it into a vial with some crude arcane runes painted on it, and give it a whack with a rubber mallet, sending a magic acid projectile down the field" and the DM says "uh, I don't see a vial, a screw, or a mallet on your sheet, so no you don't" - you can't play this class in any way that's fun

    override367 on
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    never put a class feature behind random chance. Infusion choice is a class feature progression, it's you sculpting what it is you bring to the table from your class features. Making it random chance what you're bringing to the table is not a super good means of class progression. You can't really make any coherent "builds" because portions of it would be left to chance. Eventually folks would just cheat the random chance. Literally the only problems with infusions are scope of choice, the levels at which choices become available, the number of infusions you get, and that it's just a touch it and it's infused flavoring, but I can also reflavor that but keep the mechanical execution (because the mechanical execution on how you make infusions, and their limitations are pretty good)

    As well a base assumption of the class is that you use your x toolkit to accomplish your spell casting. Your alchemical supplies are purposefully vague as to their exact contents. They come with no full listing and are just simply, the tools you use to do alchemy, go to town describing what's in that kit. Anyone tracking screw by screw is going to be mighty disappointed because carpenters tools are a toolkit you can get that has no item listing beyond "These special tools include the items needed to pursue a craft or trade." And that sure as heck includes screws. So your alchemical kit includes a vial, a screw, and a mallet because those are the items needed to pursue your craft and trade.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Well I actually really hate the way it currently is with magical prototypes, hemming yourself in to a hyper niche item for an entire level feels bad, and leads to artificers who don't want to suck just taking the "Give everyone Rare magical armor at level 2 and use all my infusion slots on that"

    The class needs some method of changing its Magic Item. Maybe spinning the wheel if you want to change it after a long rest? You pick what you want, if you don't want that magic item anymore, you have to take a chance.

    Personally I'm fine with just picking but everyone else seems at odds with letting artificers change which magic items they can replicate

  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular

    It requires a DM to just let you make shit up. If you're in a game where you say "I pull out a small screw and screw it into a vial with some crude arcane runes painted on it, and give it a whack with a rubber mallet, sending a magic acid projectile down the field" and the DM says "uh, I don't see a vial, a screw, or a mallet on your sheet, so no you don't" - you can't play this class in any way that's fun

    That is exactly how the class is intended to work. If a wizard can pull unlimited quantities of bat guano out of a component pouch, there is no reason an artificer can't pull shit out of his tool kit.

    italianranmaSleepZonugalDarkPrimusToxhlprmnkyDaenrisoverride367Moridin889ElvenshaeNipsNyhtRhesus Positive
  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    Every so often I have a player who wants to meticulously track all their spell components. Or arrows. Or rations. I like games that emphasis limited inventory (like Torchlight or Blades in the Dark), but that's a bit much. I usually just tell them that's not necessary, but I wonder if it'd be more fun for them if I always checked to see if they have their bit of sheep's wool or whatever.

    飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited March 20
    Well I actually really hate the way it currently is with magical prototypes, hemming yourself in to a hyper niche item for an entire level feels bad, and leads to artificers who don't want to suck just taking the "Give everyone Rare magical armor at level 2 and use all my infusion slots on that"

    The class needs some method of changing its Magic Item. Maybe spinning the wheel if you want to change it after a long rest? You pick what you want, if you don't want that magic item anymore, you have to take a chance.

    Personally I'm fine with just picking but everyone else seems at odds with letting artificers change which magic items they can replicate

    Ah funny thing you can't do that you can only use each known infusion once, and you can only learn it once, the replicate item infusion specifically says you can learn it more than once taking a different item each time.

    You can't just give everyone magic armor.

    You can change out a known infusion when you level like a bard or sorcerer can change out a spell known when they level. Or like a warlock can change out its invocations.

    Though a particular infusion that is more flexible does sound kinda dope. Like every time you infuse it there's differences you can make in the distinct function of the item, kinda like the resistant armor infusion let's you set elemental resistance when you infuse it.

    The more rapid daily magical doodad construction is literally your spell casting, you spend the first few minutes a day prepping spells by making magical inventions that will produce the spells with your chosen toolkit.

    Sleep on
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    edited March 20
    Every so often I have a player who wants to meticulously track all their spell components. Or arrows. Or rations. I like games that emphasis limited inventory (like Torchlight or Blades in the Dark), but that's a bit much. I usually just tell them that's not necessary, but I wonder if it'd be more fun for them if I always checked to see if they have their bit of sheep's wool or whatever.

    Do it. Every once in a while ask them if they've got the components. Let him or her panic for a second at a time when it might not be that critical. Let them know that their meticulousness counts for something. Reward their particular playstyle with simple acknowledgment. They'd probably appreciate it.

    And then? When it really matters? Ask them again. Chances are they'd have that info locked down and they'd be the hero of the night!

    Steelhawk on
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    I had a dm that made us all track rations, components, weight (including for gold), and ammunition.

    It wasn't too bad except for a couple of very specific things:
    - rations and even food was dumb expensive. You want a hot dog in a tavern? That's 10 gold.
    - ammo was stupid rare. Magic ammo non-existant. We were playing rage of demons module and i ran out of xbow bolts on my sharpshooter xbow mastery guy. In the underdark. So he claimed i could not resupply anywhere in the underdark. With xbow bolts. I'm the underdark.
    Even regular, never mind magical. Then i spent last 3 sessions shooting at demons that were immune to my dmg, or getting invisible bubbles cast on me by enemies that were invisible until they can it and such.

    I think it pissed him off when i did like 60 damage in the opening turn vs a beholder, because that's when he started trying to "constrain" me.

    Honestly, i should have walked away at that point when he started doing stuff like that.

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  • webguy20webguy20 Registered User regular
    I remember you posting about that. It was such bullshit. The only times my DMs have ever made encumbrancer an issue is when we find a ton of coin, and the puzzle is then how do we get it all back?

    One time we solved it by putting it all in clay jugs we found, and putting them on the chariot we found, and my beefy as fighter and our beefy ass paladin pulled it back from the temple we found it in. It was very cool.

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 20
    Sleep wrote: »
    Well I actually really hate the way it currently is with magical prototypes, hemming yourself in to a hyper niche item for an entire level feels bad, and leads to artificers who don't want to suck just taking the "Give everyone Rare magical armor at level 2 and use all my infusion slots on that"

    The class needs some method of changing its Magic Item. Maybe spinning the wheel if you want to change it after a long rest? You pick what you want, if you don't want that magic item anymore, you have to take a chance.

    Personally I'm fine with just picking but everyone else seems at odds with letting artificers change which magic items they can replicate

    Ah funny thing you can't do that you can only use each known infusion once, and you can only learn it once, the replicate item infusion specifically says you can learn it more than once taking a different item each time.

    You can't just give everyone magic armor.

    You can change out a known infusion when you level like a bard or sorcerer can change out a spell known when they level. Or like a warlock can change out its invocations.

    Though a particular infusion that is more flexible does sound kinda dope. Like every time you infuse it there's differences you can make in the distinct function of the item, kinda like the resistant armor infusion let's you set elemental resistance when you infuse it.

    The more rapid daily magical doodad construction is literally your spell casting, you spend the first few minutes a day prepping spells by making magical inventions that will produce the spells with your chosen toolkit.

    Well goddamn that sucks, and I completely misunderstood how many infusions you get too

    Everything I liked about the class was just me misreading stuff, it’s nothing but bad all the way through

    Edit: My DM really wants me to still play artificer in the upcoming campaign. She’s made a few changes (I like my curse of strahd DM, I didn’t ask her to buff it, I just said why I was switching to Bard):

    - Artificer has the ability to disassemble magic items of the appropriate rarity, giving them a schematic. They can now use “replicate magic item” to make that item. More entertaining from a role playing perspective, with an appropriate roll an item can be duplicated if I take an hour examining it. My character has sleight of hand and high dex... I see where she’s going with this
    - You can make more of the same item, but NOT more of the same infusion (want 2 bags of holding? Sure, 2 +1 armors? No)
    - You get up to your int mod in Infusions, this is a high magic campaign, to be useful the artificer truly needs to be a doc brown throwing out a bunch of magic items
    - Additional attunement slot at 7th level
    - Humonculous grows to 2d6 at 11 and 3d6 at 17 (plus mods)

    override367 on
  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Well I actually really hate the way it currently is with magical prototypes, hemming yourself in to a hyper niche item for an entire level feels bad, and leads to artificers who don't want to suck just taking the "Give everyone Rare magical armor at level 2 and use all my infusion slots on that"

    The class needs some method of changing its Magic Item. Maybe spinning the wheel if you want to change it after a long rest? You pick what you want, if you don't want that magic item anymore, you have to take a chance.

    Personally I'm fine with just picking but everyone else seems at odds with letting artificers change which magic items they can replicate

    Ah funny thing you can't do that you can only use each known infusion once, and you can only learn it once, the replicate item infusion specifically says you can learn it more than once taking a different item each time.

    You can't just give everyone magic armor.

    You can change out a known infusion when you level like a bard or sorcerer can change out a spell known when they level. Or like a warlock can change out its invocations.

    Though a particular infusion that is more flexible does sound kinda dope. Like every time you infuse it there's differences you can make in the distinct function of the item, kinda like the resistant armor infusion let's you set elemental resistance when you infuse it.

    The more rapid daily magical doodad construction is literally your spell casting, you spend the first few minutes a day prepping spells by making magical inventions that will produce the spells with your chosen toolkit.

    Well goddamn that sucks, and I completely misunderstood how many infusions you get too

    Everything I liked about the class was just me misreading stuff, it’s nothing but bad all the way through

    Edit: My DM really wants me to still play artificer in the upcoming campaign. She’s made a few changes (I like my curse of strahd DM, I didn’t ask her to buff it, I just said why I was switching to Bard):

    - Artificer has the ability to disassemble magic items of the appropriate rarity, giving them a schematic. They can now use “replicate magic item” to make that item. More entertaining from a role playing perspective, with an appropriate role an item can be duplicated if I take an hour examining it. My character has sleight of hand and high dex... I see where she’s going with this
    - You can make more of the same item, but NOT more of the same infusion (want 2 bags of holding? Sure, 2 +1 armors? No)
    - You get up to your int mod in Infusions, this is a high magic campaign, to be useful the artificer truly needs to be a doc brown throwing out a bunch of magic items
    - Additional attunement slot at 7th level
    - Humonculous grows to 2d6 at 11 and 3d6 at 17 (plus mods)

    redesign it from the ground up and negotiate for your services!

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    Sleep
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 20
    I can’t wait until I attempt to convince Important NPC to just let me look at his magic staff and roll a 1 and break it and not learn how to make it

    That’s the good role play shit

    override367 on
    Moridin889
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Then roll again to see what the Artificer manages to scrounge up to give back instead.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    Just found this 5E conversion of a late 90's Chris Perkins adventure. It's centered on a variant sphere of annihilation that is growing in the center of a major city and must be stopped before its growth destroys the city.

    It also features this:
    Round table. This table has been enchanted with a permanent animate object spell, but only Amazzar knows the command words for activating and controlling it. If a creature uses its action to utter the proper command word, the table comes to life and unhinges its six metal arms (hidden in the underside). Each arm grasps a wand of magic missiles. The table is also endowed with average Intelligence and can pick targets as it sees fit (see attack table in the appendix). Once activated, the table can be commanded with the proper command words, requiring no additional actions.

    Bzallin's Blacksphere

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited March 20
    I'm planning to have the BBEG of my campaign, a lich with similar stats as Acererak from Tomb of Annihilation, send a unique simulacrum to test the PCs. I'm partly doing this because some of my players have been adamant on finding and fighting the lich despite only being 13th-level at the moment, partly because I want to make sure the lich isn't a pushover (one of my players ran a campaign in the past where the lich BBEG was defeated very easily), and partly to make the party search for a way to weaken the lich (perhaps getting the phylactery and performing a ritual on it to destroy or weaken it).

    Here are the buff spells I plan on giving the simulacrum:

    - Foresight (advantage on saving throws, attack rolls against the simulacrum have disadvantage)
    - At-Will Shield (increases AC from 21 to 26)
    - At-Will Mirror Image (chance that a hit instead strikes an illusory duplicate)
    - Carpet of Flying

    The lich is testing the PCs, and its simulacrum won't kill anyone it deems valuable to the lich's plans (NPC allies of the party are fair game). If the party wins they get a carpet of flying, but if they lose or fail to escape their NPC allies are in danger.

    Hexmage-PA on
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    joshgotro
  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    I finally revealed my character's dark secret in last night's game! The rest of the party was getting suspicious about some inconsistencies in the story that Tarsus the Devonian, my Oath of Devotion Paladin had told them. Visiting Bregonne, a town in the enemy empire that he'd claimed to have been before, they figured out enough that he had to come clean.

    My character is actually a man named Wulfric, a former member of the Bregonne militia. Under the orders of his tyrannical ruler, he killed a lot of innocent townspeople, and the real Tarsus. The guilt overwhelmed him, so he took the Paladin's cloak and maul and fled, taking up his mantle to try and make up for his own misdeeds. He tracked down as much information as he could about the real hero, then filled in the blanks with generic archetypal hero stuff.

    A couple of the players were suspicious OOC that he wasn't who he claimed, but nobody knew that he was literally his own nemesis. And with this comes the reveal that, although on the surface he was this relatively simple person, he's probably the most fundamentally broken member of the group. Lots of buried self-loathing and idolizing a dead man who Wulfric has built up as an absolute paragon of virtue.

    So now we're in a town filled with people that hate me as much as their tyrant, and we need to figure out how to kill said tyrant since he keeps sending men to kill me/various NPC allies. Ultimately I think the rest of the party is going to help me decide whether, after this is over, Wulfric drops the facade and lets people despise him, or continue living a lie so that the people who need hope have their hero.

    Nerdsamwich DarkPrimusSleepoverride367webguy20ElvenshaeZomroNipshlprmnkyJustTeeDaPaladinMrVyngaardmildlymorbid
  • Nerdsamwich Nerdsamwich Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    I finally revealed my character's dark secret in last night's game! The rest of the party was getting suspicious about some inconsistencies in the story that Tarsus the Devonian, my Oath of Devotion Paladin had told them. Visiting Bregonne, a town in the enemy empire that he'd claimed to have been before, they figured out enough that he had to come clean.

    My character is actually a man named Wulfric, a former member of the Bregonne militia. Under the orders of his tyrannical ruler, he killed a lot of innocent townspeople, and the real Tarsus. The guilt overwhelmed him, so he took the Paladin's cloak and maul and fled, taking up his mantle to try and make up for his own misdeeds. He tracked down as much information as he could about the real hero, then filled in the blanks with generic archetypal hero stuff.

    A couple of the players were suspicious OOC that he wasn't who he claimed, but nobody knew that he was literally his own nemesis. And with this comes the reveal that, although on the surface he was this relatively simple person, he's probably the most fundamentally broken member of the group. Lots of buried self-loathing and idolizing a dead man who Wulfric has built up as an absolute paragon of virtue.

    So now we're in a town filled with people that hate me as much as their tyrant, and we need to figure out how to kill said tyrant since he keeps sending men to kill me/various NPC allies. Ultimately I think the rest of the party is going to help me decide whether, after this is over, Wulfric drops the facade and lets people despise him, or continue living a lie so that the people who need hope have their hero.

    Now, that kind of thing is what the tag "mature content" should mean. Y'know, content that deals with topics that involve some actual emotional maturity, rather than just sex and drugs and swears.

    Sleepwebguy20Nips
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 20
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I'm planning to have the BBEG of my campaign, a lich with similar stats as Acererak from Tomb of Annihilation, send a unique simulacrum to test the PCs. I'm partly doing this because some of my players have been adamant on finding and fighting the lich despite only being 13th-level at the moment, partly because I want to make sure the lich isn't a pushover (one of my players ran a campaign in the past where the lich BBEG was defeated very easily), and partly to make the party search for a way to weaken the lich (perhaps getting the phylactery and performing a ritual on it to destroy or weaken it).

    Here are the buff spells I plan on giving the simulacrum:

    - Foresight (advantage on saving throws, attack rolls against the simulacrum have disadvantage)
    - At-Will Shield (increases AC from 21 to 26)
    - At-Will Mirror Image (chance that a hit instead strikes an illusory duplicate)
    - Carpet of Flying

    The lich is testing the PCs, and its simulacrum won't kill anyone it deems valuable to the lich's plans (NPC allies of the party are fair game). If the party wins they get a carpet of flying, but if they lose or fail to escape their NPC allies are in danger.

    If he's by himself, a 13th level party can almost certainly kill a lich, unless you're super power-gaming the lich (or lets be honest, it flees, because liches are smart enough to not tempt fate against such parties), this sounds like a lot of fun with the simulacrum, don't forget to burn up the party's loot (the magic rug) if they hit it with a fireball

    do your best chris perkins impression while you do too

    override367 on
    Moridin889
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    I finally revealed my character's dark secret in last night's game! The rest of the party was getting suspicious about some inconsistencies in the story that Tarsus the Devonian, my Oath of Devotion Paladin had told them. Visiting Bregonne, a town in the enemy empire that he'd claimed to have been before, they figured out enough that he had to come clean.

    My character is actually a man named Wulfric, a former member of the Bregonne militia. Under the orders of his tyrannical ruler, he killed a lot of innocent townspeople, and the real Tarsus. The guilt overwhelmed him, so he took the Paladin's cloak and maul and fled, taking up his mantle to try and make up for his own misdeeds. He tracked down as much information as he could about the real hero, then filled in the blanks with generic archetypal hero stuff.

    A couple of the players were suspicious OOC that he wasn't who he claimed, but nobody knew that he was literally his own nemesis. And with this comes the reveal that, although on the surface he was this relatively simple person, he's probably the most fundamentally broken member of the group. Lots of buried self-loathing and idolizing a dead man who Wulfric has built up as an absolute paragon of virtue.

    So now we're in a town filled with people that hate me as much as their tyrant, and we need to figure out how to kill said tyrant since he keeps sending men to kill me/various NPC allies. Ultimately I think the rest of the party is going to help me decide whether, after this is over, Wulfric drops the facade and lets people despise him, or continue living a lie so that the people who need hope have their hero.

    Now, how big is his sword? :D

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I'm planning to have the BBEG of my campaign, a lich with similar stats as Acererak from Tomb of Annihilation, send a unique simulacrum to test the PCs. I'm partly doing this because some of my players have been adamant on finding and fighting the lich despite only being 13th-level at the moment, partly because I want to make sure the lich isn't a pushover (one of my players ran a campaign in the past where the lich BBEG was defeated very easily), and partly to make the party search for a way to weaken the lich (perhaps getting the phylactery and performing a ritual on it to destroy or weaken it).

    Here are the buff spells I plan on giving the simulacrum:

    - Foresight (advantage on saving throws, attack rolls against the simulacrum have disadvantage)
    - At-Will Shield (increases AC from 21 to 26)
    - At-Will Mirror Image (chance that a hit instead strikes an illusory duplicate)
    - Carpet of Flying

    The lich is testing the PCs, and its simulacrum won't kill anyone it deems valuable to the lich's plans (NPC allies of the party are fair game). If the party wins they get a carpet of flying, but if they lose or fail to escape their NPC allies are in danger.

    If he's by himself, a 13th level party can almost certainly kill a lich, unless you're super power-gaming the lich (or lets be honest, it flees, because liches are smart enough to not tempt fate against such parties), this sounds like a lot of fun with the simulacrum, don't forget to burn up the party's loot (the magic rug) if they hit it with a fireball

    do your best chris perkins impression while you do too

    Wow, are liches that easy to kill? Keep in mind I'm basing my BBEG's stats off of Acererak's from Tomb of Annihilation, not the Monster Manual lich.

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  • AbbalahAbbalah Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I'm planning to have the BBEG of my campaign, a lich with similar stats as Acererak from Tomb of Annihilation, send a unique simulacrum to test the PCs. I'm partly doing this because some of my players have been adamant on finding and fighting the lich despite only being 13th-level at the moment, partly because I want to make sure the lich isn't a pushover (one of my players ran a campaign in the past where the lich BBEG was defeated very easily), and partly to make the party search for a way to weaken the lich (perhaps getting the phylactery and performing a ritual on it to destroy or weaken it).

    Here are the buff spells I plan on giving the simulacrum:

    - Foresight (advantage on saving throws, attack rolls against the simulacrum have disadvantage)
    - At-Will Shield (increases AC from 21 to 26)
    - At-Will Mirror Image (chance that a hit instead strikes an illusory duplicate)
    - Carpet of Flying

    The lich is testing the PCs, and its simulacrum won't kill anyone it deems valuable to the lich's plans (NPC allies of the party are fair game). If the party wins they get a carpet of flying, but if they lose or fail to escape their NPC allies are in danger.

    If he's by himself, a 13th level party can almost certainly kill a lich, unless you're super power-gaming the lich (or lets be honest, it flees, because liches are smart enough to not tempt fate against such parties), this sounds like a lot of fun with the simulacrum, don't forget to burn up the party's loot (the magic rug) if they hit it with a fireball

    do your best chris perkins impression while you do too

    Wow, are liches that easy to kill? Keep in mind I'm basing my BBEG's stats off of Acererak's from Tomb of Annihilation, not the Monster Manual lich.

    The MM lich is very easy for a mid-level party to kill because it doesn't have enough HP - at 135 HP with 17 AC, a party in the teens can pretty easily just delete it before it acts if they beat it in initiative.

    Acererak is a lot tougher just by dint of having more than double the HP and higher AC so they actually have to fight him. (there are absolutely certain builds whose spike damage can still get high enough to strike him out, but you'd know if any of your players were running them by now). If you're using the actual Simulacrum spell here, though, he'll have half the caster's HP and end up looking a lot more like the MM lich fight.

    Solo spellcaster monsters are generally pretty vulnerable to the fact that Silence turns off almost all spellcasting in its area (and they tend to be pretty easy to grapple so they can't leave the Silence). Acererak has a couple outs to that strategy, though: Firstly he has Counterspell available, so they'll need to get his Reaction down before trying to Silence him (likely by baiting him into casting Shield first). Secondly Paralyzing Touch can basically auto-end a grapple, provided he can hit his target and they fail the con save. Thirdly if he's floating around on a flying carpet he'll be difficult to nail down like that in the first place - they'll probably need to find a way to knock him off the carpet.

    If they can't manage all that stuff (or insta-gib him) the simulacrum will basically have to choose not to kill them, since level 13 character are most likely under the 100 HP threshold for power word kill and are also likely to be at real risk of instant death from disintigrate.

    SleepMoridin889
  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Terrendos wrote: »
    I finally revealed my character's dark secret in last night's game! The rest of the party was getting suspicious about some inconsistencies in the story that Tarsus the Devonian, my Oath of Devotion Paladin had told them. Visiting Bregonne, a town in the enemy empire that he'd claimed to have been before, they figured out enough that he had to come clean.

    My character is actually a man named Wulfric, a former member of the Bregonne militia. Under the orders of his tyrannical ruler, he killed a lot of innocent townspeople, and the real Tarsus. The guilt overwhelmed him, so he took the Paladin's cloak and maul and fled, taking up his mantle to try and make up for his own misdeeds. He tracked down as much information as he could about the real hero, then filled in the blanks with generic archetypal hero stuff.

    A couple of the players were suspicious OOC that he wasn't who he claimed, but nobody knew that he was literally his own nemesis. And with this comes the reveal that, although on the surface he was this relatively simple person, he's probably the most fundamentally broken member of the group. Lots of buried self-loathing and idolizing a dead man who Wulfric has built up as an absolute paragon of virtue.

    So now we're in a town filled with people that hate me as much as their tyrant, and we need to figure out how to kill said tyrant since he keeps sending men to kill me/various NPC allies. Ultimately I think the rest of the party is going to help me decide whether, after this is over, Wulfric drops the facade and lets people despise him, or continue living a lie so that the people who need hope have their hero.

    Now, how big is his sword? :D

    I don't get it.

    His current weapon is a vicious greatsword, but I'm hoping to swap back to the character's iconic Maul before the end of the campaign.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    im pretty sure my level 10 party can kill Acererak in two turns

    which is why when they face him he's opening by time stopping, delayed blast fireball, and popping the fireball and his time stop at the same time with a Circle of Death

    webguy20SmrtnikMoridin889Elvenshae
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Question about Acererak:
    What if he opens up by casting Invulnerability?

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 20
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Question about Acererak:
    What if he opens up by casting Invulnerability?

    Out of the 6 people in the party im running, 4 have dispel magic, the bard has +7 to that check because bards and others will have inspiration dice

    override367 on
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