or leave it as is, and if he crits, describe the party member's thrashing slow to a stop as they are frozen solid, and soulfang just chomps their crunchy, frozen form down like a delicious frozen snack (unless they survive the 40d10 somehow)
Well it's a range of 40 - 400 damage, so survival is technically possible.
At full health and raging my level 15 Totem of the bear barbarian could tank over 400 points of damage. It was pretty awesome. I couldn't die by falling. I'd just bounce.
or leave it as is, and if he crits, describe the party member's thrashing slow to a stop as they are frozen solid, and soulfang just chomps their crunchy, frozen form down like a delicious frozen snack (unless they survive the 40d10 somehow)
Well it's a range of 40 - 400 damage, so survival is technically possible.
At full health and raging my level 15 Totem of the bear barbarian could tank over 400 points of damage. It was pretty awesome. I couldn't die by falling. I'd just bounce.
or leave it as is, and if he crits, describe the party member's thrashing slow to a stop as they are frozen solid, and soulfang just chomps their crunchy, frozen form down like a delicious frozen snack (unless they survive the 40d10 somehow)
Well it's a range of 40 - 400 damage, so survival is technically possible.
At full health and raging my level 15 Totem of the bear barbarian could tank over 400 points of damage. It was pretty awesome. I couldn't die by falling. I'd just bounce.
They've released some Descent into Avernus art. Check this bad boy out:
"SNEAK PEEK at Arkhan the Cruel’s Death-Domain Tortle Cleric, KRULL as he will appear in the upcoming Dungeons & Dragons adventure module BALDUR’S GATE: DESCENT INTO AVERNUS as part of the storyline and characters I helped create..."
He goes on to explain -- "It’s his alchemist, his experimenter, his torturer... he’s the one the artifact hunting squads answer to, who researched and revived the art of turning metallic dragons to Dracoliches, and found a way to corrupt the metallic eggs..."
Amon the Wolf
Large fiend (devil), lawful evil
Armor Class 20 (Natural Armor)
Hit Points 408
Speed 50 ft.
STR 26 (+8) DEX 20 (+5) CON 24 (+7)
INT 18 (+4) WIS 22 (+6) CHA 24 (+7)
Saving Throws Dex +11, Con +13, Wis +12
Damage Resistance Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing From Nonmagical Attacks That Aren't Silvered
Damage Immunities Cold, Fire, Poison
Condition Immunities Poisoned
Senses Truesight 120 Ft., passive Perception 16
Languages Infernal, Winter Wolf, Telepathy 120 Ft.
Challenge 23
Keen Hearing and Smell: Amon has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on hearing or smell.
Legendary Resistance (3/Day). If Amon fails a saving throw, he can choose to succeed instead.
Magic Resistance. Amon has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.
Magic Weapons. Amon's weapon attacks are magical.
Pack Tactics: Amon has advantage on an Attack roll against a creature if at least one of Amon's allies is within 5 ft. of the creature and the ally isn't Incapacitated.
Actions
Multiattack. Amon can use his Chilling Gaze and makes one bite attack and two mace attacks.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (4d6 + 8) piercing damage. Mace. Melee Weapon Attack: +17 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: (6d6 + 11) bludgeoning damage. If the target is a creature, it must also succeed on a DC 22 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.
Chilling Gaze. Amon targets one creature he can see within 30 feet. If the target can see Amon, the target must succeed on a DC 24 Constitution saving throw against this magic or take 21 (6d8) cold damage and then be paralyzed for 1 minute, unless it is immune to cold damage. The target can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If the target’s saving throw is successful, or if the effect ends on it, the target is immune to this Amon's gaze for 1 hour.
Legendary Actions
Attack. Amon makes a bite attack.
Gaze. Amon uses Chilling Gaze.
Command Wolves. Amon chooses up to three allied wolves. A chosen creature can immediately use its reaction to make a melee weapon attack, with advantage on the attack roll.
Soulfang
Soulfang
Huge monstrosity, lawful evil
Armor Class 20 (Natural Armor)
Hit Points 350
Speed 50 ft.
STR 26 (+8) DEX 10 (+0) CON 26 (+8)
INT 10 (+0) WIS 13 (+1) CHA 14 (+2)
Saving Throws Dex +6, Con +14, Wis +7, Cha +8
Skills Perception +13, Stealth +6
Damage Immunities Cold
Senses Darkvision 120 Ft., passive Perception 23
Languages Common, Giant, Infernal, Winter Wolf
Challenge 20
Ice Walk. Soulfang can move across icy surfaces without needing to make an ability check. Additionally, difficult terrain composed of ice or snow doesn't cost him extra moment.
Keen Hearing and Smell. Soulfang has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on hearing or smell.
Legendary Resistance (3/Day). If Soulfang fails a saving throw, he can choose to succeed instead.
Pack Tactics. Soulfang has advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of his allies is within 5 ft. of the creature and the ally isn't incapacitated.
Rejuvenation. When Soulfang's body is destroyed, his spirit lingers. After 24 hours, the spirit possesses a winter wolf and transforms it into Soulfang's new body. Soulfang loses this trait if Amon has been destroyed.
Snow Camouflage. Soulfang has advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks made to hide in snowy terrain.
Unbending Loyalty. Soulfang can’t attack Amon or target Amon with harmful abilities or magical effects.
Actions
Multiattack. Soulfang makes three bite attacks.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 4d12 + 8 piercing damage plus 2d10 cold damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 22 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.
Cold Breath (Recharge 5-6). Soulfang exhales an icy blast in a 90-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a DC 22 Constitution saving throw, taking 16d10 cold damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Hexmage-PA on
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MrVyngaardLive From New EtoileStraight Outta SosariaRegistered Userregular
KRULL, you say?
"now I've got this mental image of caucuses as cafeteria tables in prison, and new congressmen having to beat someone up on inauguration day." - Raiden333
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
Going through the ACQ INC campaign and it's just fun. Though as always I recommend starting at level two versus one, especially if you want to bring out the more humorous elements versus the "oh god Bob died!" Moments.
I am working on a list of D100 Dutch names, but where should I post it? I know there's the reddit.com/r/d100 sub, but is that actually a resource people use, or just a sub for the lolz?
Going through the ACQ INC campaign and it's just fun. Though as always I recommend starting at level two versus one, especially if you want to bring out the more humorous elements versus the "oh god Bob died!" Moments.
I'm reading through the book and there are some great moments in there. I especially love how the story drags the players all over Faerun, it's a great introduction to the Sword Coast, despite it being set up like a comedy.
chapter 3 spoiler
I'm really curious how different groups would solve the bank heist. The book is all "don't worry, it's supposed to be funny, not about punishing them", but I wonder how actual groups would do.
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
I am working on a list of D100 Dutch names, but where should I post it? I know there's the reddit.com/r/d100 sub, but is that actually a resource people use, or just a sub for the lolz?
Going through the ACQ INC campaign and it's just fun. Though as always I recommend starting at level two versus one, especially if you want to bring out the more humorous elements versus the "oh god Bob died!" Moments.
I'm reading through the book and there are some great moments in there. I especially love how the story drags the players all over Faerun, it's a great introduction to the Sword Coast, despite it being set up like a comedy.
chapter 3 spoiler
I'm really curious how different groups would solve the bank heist. The book is all "don't worry, it's supposed to be funny, not about punishing them", but I wonder how actual groups would do.
Chapter one segment.
I'm quite interested in how my players do against the green tentacle. That's a straight up player death opportunity right there, even for level 2 characters. A few bad rolls and a player is sucked into an alternate plane.
I've got a problem, the newest player in my game has a staff of the woodlands. No big deal right?
I told him it still needed the material because the awaken spell description describes tracing pathways through a gem, he points to sage advice ruling. I shrug and tell him my ruling, he says "what about like a small animal like a squirrel'
No problem i think, but now he wants to awaken hundreds of birds to use as a spy network during downtime.
He is very strongly... Not okay with me reversing my previous ruling, but an army of bird spies scouring the land will straight up break my campaign, 3 sessions in this guy's taking every inch into a mile and not acting in good faith. His rp is excellent, but he's never played before (he always dms) and I have a hard time not being pushed around
Bleh... I need to assert myself
Edit: also it seems weird that a druid would give sentience to hundreds of birds and make them work for him
I've got a problem, the newest player in my game has a staff of the woodlands. No big deal right?
I told him it still needed the material because the awaken spell description describes tracing pathways through a gem, he points to sage advice ruling. I shrug and tell him my ruling, he says "what about like a small animal like a squirrel'
No problem i think, but now he wants to awaken hundreds of birds to use as a spy network during downtime.
He is very strongly... Not okay with me reversing my previous ruling, but an army of bird spies scouring the land will straight up break my campaign, 3 sessions in this guy's taking every inch into a mile and not acting in good faith. His rp is excellent, but he's never played before (he always dms) and I have a hard time not being pushed around
Bleh... I need to assert myself
Edit: also it seems weird that a druid would give sentience to hundreds of birds and make them work for him
So he gets 30 days of them thinking he's friendly. Why does the Parliament of Birds continue to go along with his slave network after that?
So tuesday came and went and good lord did we have a hoot; my players made a zurkwood dug out canoe and took to the water ways of the 4th floor of undermountain, and over the protestations of the paladin who had tried swimming in the water in a previous session (which had resulted in him getting beaten to a pulp and in a situation that would have either put him in roll up a new character land or forced me to end the session early; being the good gm I am I called it early so I could try and get him some help in the following week) went into this grotto filled with foul murky water a tiny island and what looked like a giant shrimp somewhat beat up from it's previous tussle with the paladin.
Still ignoring the shrieking paladin's warnings, the party got a free round to unload on the poor thing (henceforth named snippy) but were unable to do any real damage owing to the fact that the party's ranged options were fairly limited, but it did lead to the party's barbarian getting hasted and the other mage in the party electing to use his new found polymorph spell to transform himself into a giant ape (and very nearly capsizing the boat), giving snippy time to get into the water where the party couldn't shoot at him.
And at about this time the party found two more giant shrimp coming at them, both of them hail and hearty and looking for a fight, which went...kind of mixed. on the one hand one of the players was in the water fighting the thing (bad since it had advantage fighting him there but good since he was close enough to the side of the boat that two rogues with dual shortswords could shiv the crap out of it) and the one wizard had badly misinterpreted how spell casting limitations worked, casting a cantrip and then attempting to fireball the shrimp... which he couldn't do with his fighter action surge... and now was in the water. On the positive side the giant ape smacked the crap out of both of the shrimp so that was good. Also one of the rogues made a saving throw for wisdom.
Next round rolled up and things turned sideways. Snippy got a hold of the wizard in the water who realized that his entire spell list required vocal components and per his rules was grappling him just below the surface, the ape wizard failed his wisdom save and found himself mind controlled and within arms reach of basically the whole party and smacked one of the two rogues, and the rogues shivved one of the shrimp to death.
It's around this time that the party realizes that the giant shrimp are allied with something nasty in the water, something with tentacles and psychic powers, and if at any point one of them had bothered to do an arcana check they would have learned that they were dealing with Chuul, a slave race for aboleths and likely deduced that they'd wandered into it's lair.
Also: toungues of madness are great; one of my players has developed an addiction to them and their exotic effect of forcing him to stream of consciousness.
Awaken gives one, single creature sentience. Staff of the woodlands allows awaken, but at a cost of 5 of the staff's charges. The Staff holds up to 10 charges so at most the player can cast Awaken twice a day, if they're willing to risk their staff going inert. Most of the time he'll have a chance to awaken one. An army of birds will be hard to assemble.
Second, the birds are charmed, not mind controlled. That's just advantage on social rolls. If the player rolls poorly when telling them what to do, or asks them to do things they're just not going to, they're going to just fly off. It's also hard to maintain that army.
Third, still just birds. What sort of threat is your villain planning? Is it just them, or do they have an army moving around?
I mean you could awaken the birds and then they just fuck right off? Charm doesn't make them your slave it just makes persuading them easier.
Normally I go with what my players want because I can trust them and they're all on the same page but this guy... Nah ill have to do that. I worry hell drag the game to a crawl trying to make it work though, so it'd be best if he just honored my intent (I thought like, he wanted a squirrel friend)
Awaken gives one, single creature sentience. Staff of the woodlands allows awaken, but at a cost of 5 of the staff's charges. The Staff holds up to 10 charges so at most the player can cast Awaken twice a day, if they're willing to risk their staff going inert. Most of the time he'll have a chance to awaken one. An army of birds will be hard to assemble.
Second, the birds are charmed, not mind controlled. That's just advantage on social rolls. If the player rolls poorly when telling them what to do, or asks them to do things they're just not going to, they're going to just fly off. It's also hard to maintain that army.
Third, still just birds. What sort of threat is your villain planning? Is it just them, or do they have an army moving around?
They have three years of downtime, doing 900+ charisma checks will be a nightmare, and a big part of the campaign is encountering things, if he scouts every town and village like he wants the next 5 sessions will be me describing them, and it's storm Kings thunder so I have descriptions
I mean you could awaken the birds and then they just fuck right off? Charm doesn't make them your slave it just makes persuading them easier.
Normally I go with what my players want because I can trust them and they're all on the same page but this guy... Nah ill have to do that. I worry hell drag the game to a crawl trying to make it work though, so it'd be best if he just honored my intent (I thought like, he wanted a squirrel friend)
My other thought is that he wants bird spies he gets bird spies. Spies are not trustworthy. Have somebody suborn them and turn them all into double agents that feed him bogus information...this is pretty dependent on if he does anything to secure their loyalty or just pulls the "I'm your creator, do my bidding!" card.
What is in Storm King's Thunder that have general happening information is gonna undermine? I could see a bird network being good for spotting big things like an army showing up but not for things like "Bob secretly loves Alice!" level things.
I mean you could awaken the birds and then they just fuck right off? Charm doesn't make them your slave it just makes persuading them easier.
Normally I go with what my players want because I can trust them and they're all on the same page but this guy... Nah ill have to do that. I worry hell drag the game to a crawl trying to make it work though, so it'd be best if he just honored my intent (I thought like, he wanted a squirrel friend)
My other thought is that he wants bird spies he gets bird spies. Spies are not trustworthy. Have somebody suborn them and turn them all into double agents that feed him bogus information...this is pretty dependent on if he does anything to secure their loyalty or just pulls the "I'm your creator, do my bidding!" card.
What is in Storm King's Thunder that have general happening information is gonna undermine? I could see a bird network being good for spotting big things like an army showing up but not for things like "Bob secretly loves Alice!" level things.
“There’s a town over that way. Looks like a town. Not many bird feeders out, though, so I didn’t look closely.”
“I ate sooooooo many earthworms from the forest to the west. Like, so many. I might throw up and I’m not even taking care of any chicks.”
Yeah, sorta. They do get pretty intelligent but still they have important bird things to do like finding food, avoiding hawks and finding other birds to make more birds with.
Basically figure out how much info you'd report to somebody if they asked you to spy on their enemies.
It's a good thing there is nothing to suggest that Awakening is heritable. Even without that I'd imagine a thousand intelligent birds who were willing to work together, would make the whole rabbits in Australia thing look like a picnic.
I actually think it's a dick DM move but bad things probably happen to druids who initiate ecological collapse.
I had kind of a weird situation last night where the player of the party wizard decided to bail on the party for a bit to go single-handedly attack the primary villain (a lich). I at least convinced him to wait and do this after the normal session when the other players had left.
He had a pretty crazy plan prepared (in fact, he'd already managed to destroy the lich's phylactery by using wish to get it and throw it in a sphere of annihilation), I had nothing prepared for the lich or his defenses, and I was already pretty tired myself, so the wizard ended up defeating the primary villain by polymorphing the lich's goristro ally, using his own arcanaloth ally to counterspell the lich, divining the lich's location after it plane shifted and pursuing it, and then feebleminding the lich after he and the arcanaloth wore through the lich's legendary resistances.
I've been regretting letting that happen today. For one the villain I'd been featuring prominently is dead before the other players even got to encounter him, and even if I introduce a new villain they'll probably be annoyed that this other villain they've heard so much about is dead. Secondly, I feel like the lich would have been better prepared for such an attack and that being put on the spot to run a fight against the lich made it too easy.
I'm not certain what to do about this. Part of me wants to just say none of that happened, and part of me wants to add a narrative reason why it happened (maybe the wizard had some other allies there keeping away the lich's other allies). I know I probably should have just said "I don't have a battle against the lich prepared and I don't want to half-ass it".
Suggestions?
BTW, I'd like some villain RPing advice. I'm perhaps too nice for my own good, so most of my devil NPCs also end up seeming weirdly nice. I've considered just trying to predict what statements and responses I'll need and write them ahead of time, but that's a lot of work.
I mean you could awaken the birds and then they just fuck right off? Charm doesn't make them your slave it just makes persuading them easier.
Normally I go with what my players want because I can trust them and they're all on the same page but this guy... Nah ill have to do that. I worry hell drag the game to a crawl trying to make it work though, so it'd be best if he just honored my intent (I thought like, he wanted a squirrel friend)
My other thought is that he wants bird spies he gets bird spies. Spies are not trustworthy. Have somebody suborn them and turn them all into double agents that feed him bogus information...this is pretty dependent on if he does anything to secure their loyalty or just pulls the "I'm your creator, do my bidding!" card.
What is in Storm King's Thunder that have general happening information is gonna undermine? I could see a bird network being good for spotting big things like an army showing up but not for things like "Bob secretly loves Alice!" level things.
“There’s a town over that way. Looks like a town. Not many bird feeders out, though, so I didn’t look closely.”
“I ate sooooooo many earthworms from the forest to the west. Like, so many. I might throw up and I’m not even taking care of any chicks.”
I can do this, but again thats going to eat up a shitload of session time and...
I should probably mention, the rest of the party travelled 2000 miles away to the capital city last session, he wasn't available last game, but he's informed me he wants to do all this during the downtime and he didn't want to go with the party so I need to retcon him teleporting there with them
I really don't want to do "here's where 5/6 of the party are and well be here and do things here" and then "cut back to: druid trying to build a spynetwork all by himself because he doesn't like not being the DM"
like, I really think this is going to be a problem if I don't stick to my guns and insist on the material cost for the awaken spell
BUT - an army of intelligent birds being incredibly unhelpful, or just unionizing and wrecking the local ecosystem sounds great too
I also have a dragon's lair nearby the birds are sure to locate, what if one of them gets captured by a kobold, who takes this talking bird to its master because its weird (instead of just eating it). Maybe the dragon is like "wow who has such power near me to be granting intelligence to all these creatures.... why... as a big red dragon I'd sure like that ability"
How long ago was the phylactery destroyed? Can they only have one? What if it was just a simulacrum of the lich? There's a lot of magic you can throw out there, like having the party deal with the real one while the wizard decides he's fighting the lesser version alone.
I love having all my devils be nice, they're actually pieces of shit, but they act nice (except imps, who I roleplay as if it has the exact same personality as a house cat)
I'd go with the phylactery wasn't really destroyed? Remember, wish is tricky. How exactly did he word the wish? Did he call for the lich's phylactery by name?
What if this lich adopted the real name of another lich for this exact eventuality, and all the wizard did was ice one of the lich's competitors?
I've been regretting letting that happen today. For one the villain I'd been featuring prominently is dead before the other players even got to encounter him, and even if I introduce a new villain they'll probably be annoyed that this other villain they've heard so much about is dead. Secondly, I feel like the lich would have been better prepared for such an attack and that being put on the spot to run a fight against the lich made it too easy.
Definitely should not have let that happen. On two fronts. The first is that you let a non-standard non duplicative Wish go unpunished. The second is that you went into a fight without your BBEG prepared. But this is in the past and can't really fix what you want to fix.
That being said there IS a way for you to fix this depending on the exact wording he used for his wish. Most specifically it would be very easy for you to say "Wish did not transport the phylactery from its position to where you were. It simply reproduced the phylactery for you, you destroyed a copy". Did he specify the true name of the Lich for whose phylactery he wanted to destroy? Or did he use a moniker? You could have pulled the phylactery from a random demi-lich. One that had faded over time and not done much of note.
Alternately the Lich could have created another. Having some sort of alarm on its phylactery hiding spot and so knowing that it had been disturbed. He could have even swapped in WISH the next day to recreate a phylactery or used simulacrum to have a decoy for you to attack.
Tynnanseldom correct, never unsureRegistered Userregular
I think a switcheroo is a useful way for your BBEG to escape the spotlight for a bit to get the players off their back and set some other schemes in motion. Yes, it’s a little unfair and it’s a bit of a retcon but let’s be serious — what was that one player thinking when they went off and did what they did? Not being much of a team spirit (in the people-around-a-table sense), and on his own there are plenty of clues he could have missed. Liches aren’t typically ones to be caught unawares, after all. So why did this one appear to be flat footed? Seems more likely it intended this.
Lich shenanigans: If the players are throwing unique Wishes around then I'm having trouble seeing why Lich boy can't be assumed to have had one or two. "If my Phylactery is removed from its resting place by not me then my attunement will immediately switch to my back up super secret hidden Phylactery back up." This doesn't require retcons, doesn't totally invalidate that player's actions, and should mostly repair things.
Though in the future that is exactly the situation to say "I'm not prepared for this so it will have to happen next session." If your players give you shit about running a complex BBEG off the cuff then they're being geese.
@override367 One thing I do think is important is realizing that you can summarize some things. This is double plus extra true when a player decides to be a special pretty princess and go off on their own. Give them equal time, ya know, weighted by party composition. The other five are in the city so city shit takes 50 minutes of every hour. I'd actually set that as the floor for what the "majority" party gets. You get less when you go off on your own because it only entertains one person and also because you're being a bit of an antisocial jerkwad.
also ive been playing with the same group for 2 years and he just joined 3 weeks ago and has already missed one game so
like... I have a fair amount of resentment of him kind of joining my game without asking in the first place and wanting to be a focus of attention - everyone else has storied we've been building up, you just started
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Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
edited August 2019
if i were running a campaign and one of my players said, out of session, that they didn't want to be in the same part of the world as the other players, i would at least think about responding, out of session, that I'm not splitting the party during a session and until the downtime is resolved or the party comes back together, onscreen session time around the table in person will be spent on the other 5/6 of the party, and the odd one out has to do it online
Personally I could see myself handling this in a few different ways depending on my mood.
"A bird spy army? Yeah I guess that's fine. When you make a skill check in the future that your bird spies could have helped with I'll give you advantage, but you're going to have to say something every time. I won't remember it for you."
"A bird spy army? You set them loose but they never report back to you. You don't know why. Hmm."
If it were my players, I'd probably just roll with it, we'd have a good laugh, and then we'd all forget about his birdvantage for the rest of the game until one night someone is like "WAIT DON'T YOU HAVE BIRD SPIES!?" and then we all make that Chris Pratt face from Parks & Rec.
Personally I could see myself handling this in a few different ways depending on my mood.
"A bird spy army? Yeah I guess that's fine. When you make a skill check in the future that your bird spies could have helped with I'll give you advantage, but you're going to have to say something every time. I won't remember it for you."
"A bird spy army? You set them loose but they never report back to you. You don't know why. Hmm."
If it were my players, I'd probably just roll with it, we'd have a good laugh, and then we'd all forget about his birdvantage for the rest of the game until one night someone is like "WAIT DON'T YOU HAVE BIRD SPIES!?" and then we all make that Chris Pratt face from Parks & Rec.
It could also be fun to play it as the birds help out a little bit, but then become resentful because this druid has awakened them, but all their offspring will just be normal birds. They are a dying race from the get go who I would think would be pretty vindictive for being given intelligence without asking for it, especially because it was for such a selfish reason.
"Hey look birds, I made all of you intelligent so you can spy for my for a month then I'll forget all about you! Enjoy your cursed existence where your only future is death!".
anyway the solution to this problem is simple: intelligence or not, birds are birds
everything a bird learns is going to be filtered through Bird Experience
using them as super political spies is hilarious and likely to net answers to questions revolving around what kind of food they keep around the house, the colors they wear, etc
Edit: which Tynnan said even better lol
just go with that, and if that fails tell him he’s being an ass and you don’t like his habits and just work it out with a Real Talk
also ive been playing with the same group for 2 years and he just joined 3 weeks ago and has already missed one game so
like... I have a fair amount of resentment of him kind of joining my game without asking in the first place and wanting to be a focus of attention - everyone else has storied we've been building up, you just started
Dude who parachutes into long established group and then wants half a session devoted to just him on the third session gets an even bigger frowny face. If it were something to help tie them into the group I'd be more lenient but that's like the exact opposite of that.
Has "That Guy" show any effort to fit his character into the established group/storylines/themes of the campaign?
Personally I could see myself handling this in a few different ways depending on my mood.
"A bird spy army? Yeah I guess that's fine. When you make a skill check in the future that your bird spies could have helped with I'll give you advantage, but you're going to have to say something every time. I won't remember it for you."
"A bird spy army? You set them loose but they never report back to you. You don't know why. Hmm."
If it were my players, I'd probably just roll with it, we'd have a good laugh, and then we'd all forget about his birdvantage for the rest of the game until one night someone is like "WAIT DON'T YOU HAVE BIRD SPIES!?" and then we all make that Chris Pratt face from Parks & Rec.
It could also be fun to play it as the birds help out a little bit, but then become resentful because this druid has awakened them, but all their offspring will just be normal birds. They are a dying race from the get go who I would think would be pretty vindictive for being given intelligence without asking for it, especially because it was for such a selfish reason.
"Hey look birds, I made all of you intelligent so you can spy for my for a month then I'll forget all about you! Enjoy your cursed existence where your only future is death!".
The spell specifically states that the charm ends if the player or party does anything harmful to them. Leaning on the Union aspect where an "injury to one is an injury to all", and considering spying is inherently dangerous, I think you have a relatively easy out.
You could reward him for a clever idea with a couple tidbits of information, but have some of the birds befall danger, and have the charm end as he directly put them in that danger. Having the bird community resent the death of a member of their community is something they do in reality without the intelligence bump so I don't think it's an unrealistic take. Just show him an article on Crow funerals and you have all the explanation you need.
I think a switcheroo is a useful way for your BBEG to escape the spotlight for a bit to get the players off their back and set some other schemes in motion. Yes, it’s a little unfair and it’s a bit of a retcon but let’s be serious — what was that one player thinking when they went off and did what they did? Not being much of a team spirit (in the people-around-a-table sense), and on his own there are plenty of clues he could have missed. Liches aren’t typically ones to be caught unawares, after all. So why did this one appear to be flat footed? Seems more likely it intended this.
Part of the reason I'm reluctant to undo what he did is because he'd clearly been preparing for this multiple sessions in advance and is therefore showing a lot of interest and investment in the campaign.
The full breakdown of what he did goes like this:
- He established that he had a small lair in the Material Plane that the party rested in once.
- He spent a month of downtime researching the lich and procuring a Sphere of Annihilation and Talisman of the Sphere for his lair.
- He went to Gehenna and bought the services of an Arcanaloth.
- He used Wish to summon the lich's phylactery, which I decided was bound within a demon that would wink back to its original location in three rounds.
- He used plane shift to teleport the demon to his lair (going by RAW unwilling targets are teleported to random locations, but I decided at the time to let it just appear at the lair).
- He used the Talisman of the Sphere to move the Sphere of Annihilation to the demon, causing the phylactery to be destroyed (I thought at the time of trying to prevent this, but the player at this point had already put several sessions of preparation into this plan and I wanted to reward his preparation).
- He teleported along with the Arcanaloth to the lich's mobile lair, summoned demons to distract the lich's underlings, and attacked the lich. At this point I tried to say the lich he was near and had been talking to was just a programmed image, but the player then produced an index card he had prepared before the session with buff spells his wizard had cast on himself before teleporting to the lich. Among these were true seeing, which meant there was no way the lich he had been talking to could have been an illusion.
- He and the Arcanaloth briefly battled the lich before casting feeblemind on it.
- He plane shifted the feebleminded lich to his lair with the initial goal of using a scroll of imprisonment on it that I had previously included in a treasure horde, but then instead finished him off.
- After this he went to a portal to a mindflayer colony I had established earlier, used mindblank and greater invisibility to infiltrate it without the colony's elder brain being able to detect him, killed the unaware elder brain and its guards with a necklace of fireballs, used dance macabre to raise the mindflayers as zombies, summoned demons, and announced he intended to conquer the mindflayers and put as many of them as he could to work in the lich's former lair as his own minions.
The player (who had playing in our campaign for a long time) also said that this was likely the last session he could attend and said that if I wanted I could run his PC as a villain who had betrayed the party. He also provided many ideas for modifications he would make to the lich's former lair and frankly did a lot of DM prep work regarding the lair for me, so I may do that.
Posts
At full health and raging my level 15 Totem of the bear barbarian could tank over 400 points of damage. It was pretty awesome. I couldn't die by falling. I'd just bounce.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Nickname: "Superball"
Amon the Wolf
Large fiend (devil), lawful evil
Armor Class 20 (Natural Armor)
Hit Points 408
Speed 50 ft.
STR 26 (+8) DEX 20 (+5) CON 24 (+7)
INT 18 (+4) WIS 22 (+6) CHA 24 (+7)
Saving Throws Dex +11, Con +13, Wis +12
Damage Resistance Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing From Nonmagical Attacks That Aren't Silvered
Damage Immunities Cold, Fire, Poison
Condition Immunities Poisoned
Senses Truesight 120 Ft., passive Perception 16
Languages Infernal, Winter Wolf, Telepathy 120 Ft.
Challenge 23
Keen Hearing and Smell: Amon has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on hearing or smell.
Legendary Resistance (3/Day). If Amon fails a saving throw, he can choose to succeed instead.
Magic Resistance. Amon has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.
Magic Weapons. Amon's weapon attacks are magical.
Pack Tactics: Amon has advantage on an Attack roll against a creature if at least one of Amon's allies is within 5 ft. of the creature and the ally isn't Incapacitated.
Actions
Multiattack. Amon can use his Chilling Gaze and makes one bite attack and two mace attacks.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: (4d6 + 8) piercing damage. Mace. Melee Weapon Attack: +17 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: (6d6 + 11) bludgeoning damage. If the target is a creature, it must also succeed on a DC 22 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.
Chilling Gaze. Amon targets one creature he can see within 30 feet. If the target can see Amon, the target must succeed on a DC 24 Constitution saving throw against this magic or take 21 (6d8) cold damage and then be paralyzed for 1 minute, unless it is immune to cold damage. The target can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If the target’s saving throw is successful, or if the effect ends on it, the target is immune to this Amon's gaze for 1 hour.
Legendary Actions
Attack. Amon makes a bite attack.
Gaze. Amon uses Chilling Gaze.
Command Wolves. Amon chooses up to three allied wolves. A chosen creature can immediately use its reaction to make a melee weapon attack, with advantage on the attack roll.
Soulfang
Huge monstrosity, lawful evil
Armor Class 20 (Natural Armor)
Hit Points 350
Speed 50 ft.
STR 26 (+8) DEX 10 (+0) CON 26 (+8)
INT 10 (+0) WIS 13 (+1) CHA 14 (+2)
Saving Throws Dex +6, Con +14, Wis +7, Cha +8
Skills Perception +13, Stealth +6
Damage Immunities Cold
Senses Darkvision 120 Ft., passive Perception 23
Languages Common, Giant, Infernal, Winter Wolf
Challenge 20
Ice Walk. Soulfang can move across icy surfaces without needing to make an ability check. Additionally, difficult terrain composed of ice or snow doesn't cost him extra moment.
Keen Hearing and Smell. Soulfang has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on hearing or smell.
Legendary Resistance (3/Day). If Soulfang fails a saving throw, he can choose to succeed instead.
Pack Tactics. Soulfang has advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of his allies is within 5 ft. of the creature and the ally isn't incapacitated.
Rejuvenation. When Soulfang's body is destroyed, his spirit lingers. After 24 hours, the spirit possesses a winter wolf and transforms it into Soulfang's new body. Soulfang loses this trait if Amon has been destroyed.
Snow Camouflage. Soulfang has advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks made to hide in snowy terrain.
Unbending Loyalty. Soulfang can’t attack Amon or target Amon with harmful abilities or magical effects.
Actions
Multiattack. Soulfang makes three bite attacks.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 4d12 + 8 piercing damage plus 2d10 cold damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 22 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.
Cold Breath (Recharge 5-6). Soulfang exhales an icy blast in a 90-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a DC 22 Constitution saving throw, taking 16d10 cold damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
I'm reading through the book and there are some great moments in there. I especially love how the story drags the players all over Faerun, it's a great introduction to the Sword Coast, despite it being set up like a comedy.
chapter 3 spoiler
Chapter one segment.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
I told him it still needed the material because the awaken spell description describes tracing pathways through a gem, he points to sage advice ruling. I shrug and tell him my ruling, he says "what about like a small animal like a squirrel'
No problem i think, but now he wants to awaken hundreds of birds to use as a spy network during downtime.
He is very strongly... Not okay with me reversing my previous ruling, but an army of bird spies scouring the land will straight up break my campaign, 3 sessions in this guy's taking every inch into a mile and not acting in good faith. His rp is excellent, but he's never played before (he always dms) and I have a hard time not being pushed around
Bleh... I need to assert myself
Edit: also it seems weird that a druid would give sentience to hundreds of birds and make them work for him
So he gets 30 days of them thinking he's friendly. Why does the Parliament of Birds continue to go along with his slave network after that?
Still ignoring the shrieking paladin's warnings, the party got a free round to unload on the poor thing (henceforth named snippy) but were unable to do any real damage owing to the fact that the party's ranged options were fairly limited, but it did lead to the party's barbarian getting hasted and the other mage in the party electing to use his new found polymorph spell to transform himself into a giant ape (and very nearly capsizing the boat), giving snippy time to get into the water where the party couldn't shoot at him.
And at about this time the party found two more giant shrimp coming at them, both of them hail and hearty and looking for a fight, which went...kind of mixed. on the one hand one of the players was in the water fighting the thing (bad since it had advantage fighting him there but good since he was close enough to the side of the boat that two rogues with dual shortswords could shiv the crap out of it) and the one wizard had badly misinterpreted how spell casting limitations worked, casting a cantrip and then attempting to fireball the shrimp... which he couldn't do with his fighter action surge... and now was in the water. On the positive side the giant ape smacked the crap out of both of the shrimp so that was good. Also one of the rogues made a saving throw for wisdom.
Next round rolled up and things turned sideways. Snippy got a hold of the wizard in the water who realized that his entire spell list required vocal components and per his rules was grappling him just below the surface, the ape wizard failed his wisdom save and found himself mind controlled and within arms reach of basically the whole party and smacked one of the two rogues, and the rogues shivved one of the shrimp to death.
It's around this time that the party realizes that the giant shrimp are allied with something nasty in the water, something with tentacles and psychic powers, and if at any point one of them had bothered to do an arcana check they would have learned that they were dealing with Chuul, a slave race for aboleths and likely deduced that they'd wandered into it's lair.
Also: toungues of madness are great; one of my players has developed an addiction to them and their exotic effect of forcing him to stream of consciousness.
Second, the birds are charmed, not mind controlled. That's just advantage on social rolls. If the player rolls poorly when telling them what to do, or asks them to do things they're just not going to, they're going to just fly off. It's also hard to maintain that army.
Third, still just birds. What sort of threat is your villain planning? Is it just them, or do they have an army moving around?
Normally I go with what my players want because I can trust them and they're all on the same page but this guy... Nah ill have to do that. I worry hell drag the game to a crawl trying to make it work though, so it'd be best if he just honored my intent (I thought like, he wanted a squirrel friend)
They have three years of downtime, doing 900+ charisma checks will be a nightmare, and a big part of the campaign is encountering things, if he scouts every town and village like he wants the next 5 sessions will be me describing them, and it's storm Kings thunder so I have descriptions
I just have to put my foot down
My other thought is that he wants bird spies he gets bird spies. Spies are not trustworthy. Have somebody suborn them and turn them all into double agents that feed him bogus information...this is pretty dependent on if he does anything to secure their loyalty or just pulls the "I'm your creator, do my bidding!" card.
What is in Storm King's Thunder that have general happening information is gonna undermine? I could see a bird network being good for spotting big things like an army showing up but not for things like "Bob secretly loves Alice!" level things.
“There’s a town over that way. Looks like a town. Not many bird feeders out, though, so I didn’t look closely.”
“I ate sooooooo many earthworms from the forest to the west. Like, so many. I might throw up and I’m not even taking care of any chicks.”
Basically figure out how much info you'd report to somebody if they asked you to spy on their enemies.
I actually think it's a dick DM move but bad things probably happen to druids who initiate ecological collapse.
Working out what a rock would be able to sense, and also what it would consider worth talking about
He had a pretty crazy plan prepared (in fact, he'd already managed to destroy the lich's phylactery by using wish to get it and throw it in a sphere of annihilation), I had nothing prepared for the lich or his defenses, and I was already pretty tired myself, so the wizard ended up defeating the primary villain by polymorphing the lich's goristro ally, using his own arcanaloth ally to counterspell the lich, divining the lich's location after it plane shifted and pursuing it, and then feebleminding the lich after he and the arcanaloth wore through the lich's legendary resistances.
I've been regretting letting that happen today. For one the villain I'd been featuring prominently is dead before the other players even got to encounter him, and even if I introduce a new villain they'll probably be annoyed that this other villain they've heard so much about is dead. Secondly, I feel like the lich would have been better prepared for such an attack and that being put on the spot to run a fight against the lich made it too easy.
I'm not certain what to do about this. Part of me wants to just say none of that happened, and part of me wants to add a narrative reason why it happened (maybe the wizard had some other allies there keeping away the lich's other allies). I know I probably should have just said "I don't have a battle against the lich prepared and I don't want to half-ass it".
Suggestions?
BTW, I'd like some villain RPing advice. I'm perhaps too nice for my own good, so most of my devil NPCs also end up seeming weirdly nice. I've considered just trying to predict what statements and responses I'll need and write them ahead of time, but that's a lot of work.
I can do this, but again thats going to eat up a shitload of session time and...
I should probably mention, the rest of the party travelled 2000 miles away to the capital city last session, he wasn't available last game, but he's informed me he wants to do all this during the downtime and he didn't want to go with the party so I need to retcon him teleporting there with them
I really don't want to do "here's where 5/6 of the party are and well be here and do things here" and then "cut back to: druid trying to build a spynetwork all by himself because he doesn't like not being the DM"
like, I really think this is going to be a problem if I don't stick to my guns and insist on the material cost for the awaken spell
BUT - an army of intelligent birds being incredibly unhelpful, or just unionizing and wrecking the local ecosystem sounds great too
I also have a dragon's lair nearby the birds are sure to locate, what if one of them gets captured by a kobold, who takes this talking bird to its master because its weird (instead of just eating it). Maybe the dragon is like "wow who has such power near me to be granting intelligence to all these creatures.... why... as a big red dragon I'd sure like that ability"
I'd go with the phylactery wasn't really destroyed? Remember, wish is tricky. How exactly did he word the wish? Did he call for the lich's phylactery by name?
What if this lich adopted the real name of another lich for this exact eventuality, and all the wizard did was ice one of the lich's competitors?
Definitely should not have let that happen. On two fronts. The first is that you let a non-standard non duplicative Wish go unpunished. The second is that you went into a fight without your BBEG prepared. But this is in the past and can't really fix what you want to fix.
That being said there IS a way for you to fix this depending on the exact wording he used for his wish. Most specifically it would be very easy for you to say "Wish did not transport the phylactery from its position to where you were. It simply reproduced the phylactery for you, you destroyed a copy". Did he specify the true name of the Lich for whose phylactery he wanted to destroy? Or did he use a moniker? You could have pulled the phylactery from a random demi-lich. One that had faded over time and not done much of note.
Alternately the Lich could have created another. Having some sort of alarm on its phylactery hiding spot and so knowing that it had been disturbed. He could have even swapped in WISH the next day to recreate a phylactery or used simulacrum to have a decoy for you to attack.
@Hexmage-PA
Though in the future that is exactly the situation to say "I'm not prepared for this so it will have to happen next session." If your players give you shit about running a complex BBEG off the cuff then they're being geese.
@override367 One thing I do think is important is realizing that you can summarize some things. This is double plus extra true when a player decides to be a special pretty princess and go off on their own. Give them equal time, ya know, weighted by party composition. The other five are in the city so city shit takes 50 minutes of every hour. I'd actually set that as the floor for what the "majority" party gets. You get less when you go off on your own because it only entertains one person and also because you're being a bit of an antisocial jerkwad.
like... I have a fair amount of resentment of him kind of joining my game without asking in the first place and wanting to be a focus of attention - everyone else has storied we've been building up, you just started
"A bird spy army? Yeah I guess that's fine. When you make a skill check in the future that your bird spies could have helped with I'll give you advantage, but you're going to have to say something every time. I won't remember it for you."
"A bird spy army? You set them loose but they never report back to you. You don't know why. Hmm."
If it were my players, I'd probably just roll with it, we'd have a good laugh, and then we'd all forget about his birdvantage for the rest of the game until one night someone is like "WAIT DON'T YOU HAVE BIRD SPIES!?" and then we all make that Chris Pratt face from Parks & Rec.
It could also be fun to play it as the birds help out a little bit, but then become resentful because this druid has awakened them, but all their offspring will just be normal birds. They are a dying race from the get go who I would think would be pretty vindictive for being given intelligence without asking for it, especially because it was for such a selfish reason.
"Hey look birds, I made all of you intelligent so you can spy for my for a month then I'll forget all about you! Enjoy your cursed existence where your only future is death!".
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
anyway the solution to this problem is simple: intelligence or not, birds are birds
everything a bird learns is going to be filtered through Bird Experience
using them as super political spies is hilarious and likely to net answers to questions revolving around what kind of food they keep around the house, the colors they wear, etc
Edit: which Tynnan said even better lol
just go with that, and if that fails tell him he’s being an ass and you don’t like his habits and just work it out with a Real Talk
Dude who parachutes into long established group and then wants half a session devoted to just him on the third session gets an even bigger frowny face. If it were something to help tie them into the group I'd be more lenient but that's like the exact opposite of that.
Has "That Guy" show any effort to fit his character into the established group/storylines/themes of the campaign?
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Yeah, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Although I guess I didn't mind that much as there was room, but it would have been nice to have been asked
Coincidentally, she also has trouble working in a team sometimes, but she's generally OK
The spell specifically states that the charm ends if the player or party does anything harmful to them. Leaning on the Union aspect where an "injury to one is an injury to all", and considering spying is inherently dangerous, I think you have a relatively easy out.
You could reward him for a clever idea with a couple tidbits of information, but have some of the birds befall danger, and have the charm end as he directly put them in that danger. Having the bird community resent the death of a member of their community is something they do in reality without the intelligence bump so I don't think it's an unrealistic take. Just show him an article on Crow funerals and you have all the explanation you need.
Part of the reason I'm reluctant to undo what he did is because he'd clearly been preparing for this multiple sessions in advance and is therefore showing a lot of interest and investment in the campaign.
The full breakdown of what he did goes like this:
- He established that he had a small lair in the Material Plane that the party rested in once.
- He spent a month of downtime researching the lich and procuring a Sphere of Annihilation and Talisman of the Sphere for his lair.
- He went to Gehenna and bought the services of an Arcanaloth.
- He used Wish to summon the lich's phylactery, which I decided was bound within a demon that would wink back to its original location in three rounds.
- He used plane shift to teleport the demon to his lair (going by RAW unwilling targets are teleported to random locations, but I decided at the time to let it just appear at the lair).
- He used the Talisman of the Sphere to move the Sphere of Annihilation to the demon, causing the phylactery to be destroyed (I thought at the time of trying to prevent this, but the player at this point had already put several sessions of preparation into this plan and I wanted to reward his preparation).
- He teleported along with the Arcanaloth to the lich's mobile lair, summoned demons to distract the lich's underlings, and attacked the lich. At this point I tried to say the lich he was near and had been talking to was just a programmed image, but the player then produced an index card he had prepared before the session with buff spells his wizard had cast on himself before teleporting to the lich. Among these were true seeing, which meant there was no way the lich he had been talking to could have been an illusion.
- He and the Arcanaloth briefly battled the lich before casting feeblemind on it.
- He plane shifted the feebleminded lich to his lair with the initial goal of using a scroll of imprisonment on it that I had previously included in a treasure horde, but then instead finished him off.
- After this he went to a portal to a mindflayer colony I had established earlier, used mindblank and greater invisibility to infiltrate it without the colony's elder brain being able to detect him, killed the unaware elder brain and its guards with a necklace of fireballs, used dance macabre to raise the mindflayers as zombies, summoned demons, and announced he intended to conquer the mindflayers and put as many of them as he could to work in the lich's former lair as his own minions.
The player (who had playing in our campaign for a long time) also said that this was likely the last session he could attend and said that if I wanted I could run his PC as a villain who had betrayed the party. He also provided many ideas for modifications he would make to the lich's former lair and frankly did a lot of DM prep work regarding the lair for me, so I may do that.