[DnD 5E] You can't triple stamp a double stamp!

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Just learned the Descent into Avernus minis are out. I'm tempted to go get some tonight...

    EDIT: I'm looking at a gallery of minis in the set. There are multiple Yeenoghu-variants of various demons, including dretches and barlgura, that look more gnoll-like than those demons normally do. There are also armores variants of many devils. A female firbolg druid is also present, for some reason.

    Link?

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Just learned the Descent into Avernus minis are out. I'm tempted to go get some tonight...

    EDIT: I'm looking at a gallery of minis in the set. There are multiple Yeenoghu-variants of various demons, including dretches and barlgura, that look more gnoll-like than those demons normally do. There are also armores variants of many devils. A female firbolg druid is also present, for some reason.

    Link?

    Here!

    So many cool devils...

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  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    God damn, ghosts of saltmarsh has two banging art covers. The plebian version has boats and fighting a kraken, and the collectors version has a pretty scary mofo sahaguin screaming at you. Pretty hard choice.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    So I went ahead and took some of the most interesting things from that link of D&D flora. Here are some of my favorites:


    Bloodpurge - removes toxins from body
    Darkshine - fungus destroyed by light; can serve as caltrops that also prevent magical healing for one minute
    Entangle Weed - seaweed that causes entangle spell effect
    Fey Cherry - eat for a Protection from Evil and Good spell effect
    Luhix - +1 bonus to all saves and 5+level temp HP for one hour; second dose in 24 hours acts as purple worm poison
    Masthin - charms animals with its fragrance
    Orticusp - when applied to a poison the affected creature has disadvantage on saves against its effects
    Sky Lotus - floating elemental flower whose oil can be used for an ingested poison that also causes the levitate spell effect
    Wild Fireclover - ingested poison that inflicts disadvantage on Int, Wis, and Cha and causes casters to have to make concentration checks at the end of each turn
    Witchweed - when burned, smoke causes casters to have to make concentration checks at the end of each turn

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  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Shit I figured out these guys need a third.

    I think it's gonna be a Kenku bard, can't really dominate conversations because the way they talk is haunting, but can buff the party and fill some skill gaps.

    KadokenGlalElvenshaeoverride367
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    So, kind of a weird question, but if someone were using unique materials to make a magic weapon would they put the materials directly into the molten steel, or what?

    For context, I thought in my next campaign I might have it so that magic weapons can be crafted from specific materials, like from the talons of a magical creature or something.

    I've actually got an ingredient list I'm working on:
    Shocker Lizard Gland
    Phase Wasp Gland
    Ether Scarab Gland
    Corollax Feather
    Cockatrice Beak
    Cockatrice Feather
    Kamadan Gland
    Hydra Humour
    Darkmantle Humour
    Girallon Humour
    Su-Monster Humour
    Phase Spider Gland
    Catoblepas Eye
    Chupacabra Humour
    Flail Snail Shell
    Mudmaw Hide
    Assassin Vine
    Couatl Feather
    Jaculi Hide
    Poisonous Snake Gland
    Basilisk Eye
    Carrion Crawler Gland
    Giant Fire Beetle Gland
    Gargoyle Dust
    Gordon Hide
    Giant Lizard Tail
    Manticore Tail Spikes
    Pixie Dust
    Salamander Internal Forge
    Flying Snake Feather
    Flying Snake Gland
    Wyvern Gland
    Wyvern Claw

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  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    So, kind of a weird question, but if someone were using unique materials to make a magic weapon would they put the materials directly into the molten steel, or what?

    For context, I thought in my next campaign I might have it so that magic weapons can be crafted from specific materials, like from the talons of a magical creature or something.

    I've actually got an ingredient list I'm working on:
    Shocker Lizard Gland
    Phase Wasp Gland
    Ether Scarab Gland
    Corollax Feather
    Cockatrice Beak
    Cockatrice Feather
    Kamadan Gland
    Hydra Humour
    Darkmantle Humour
    Girallon Humour
    Su-Monster Humour
    Phase Spider Gland
    Catoblepas Eye
    Chupacabra Humour
    Flail Snail Shell
    Mudmaw Hide
    Assassin Vine
    Couatl Feather
    Jaculi Hide
    Poisonous Snake Gland
    Basilisk Eye
    Carrion Crawler Gland
    Giant Fire Beetle Gland
    Gargoyle Dust
    Gordon Hide
    Giant Lizard Tail
    Manticore Tail Spikes
    Pixie Dust
    Salamander Internal Forge
    Flying Snake Feather
    Flying Snake Gland
    Wyvern Gland
    Wyvern Claw

    If I allow players to do this (you gotta be careful, otherwise the players will turn your campaign into a factorio game with them at the center of it), I use the reagents as part of the spell that is cast upon the finished sword.
    Unless it's something you could realistically add to the molten metal during smithing.

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  • doomybeardoomybear Hi People Registered User regular
    For reference, Vikings would put the bones/ashes of their ancestors in the crucible when making their sword's steel to gain their protection, or something like that. I don't have access to my sources at the moment, so I might be a bit off on my recollection.

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  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    Or let the player describe how it works. Just set a simple rule that the materials are used up and that the resulting weapon has to be of a type described in the PHB. Assuming you are DMing for players who enjoy the collaborative nature of DnD and aren't in it to get even with you.

    They'll come up with something and they'll immediately care more for their fucking weapon than what they wrote down for their character background.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    evilthecat wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    So, kind of a weird question, but if someone were using unique materials to make a magic weapon would they put the materials directly into the molten steel, or what?

    For context, I thought in my next campaign I might have it so that magic weapons can be crafted from specific materials, like from the talons of a magical creature or something.

    I've actually got an ingredient list I'm working on:
    Shocker Lizard Gland
    Phase Wasp Gland
    Ether Scarab Gland
    Corollax Feather
    Cockatrice Beak
    Cockatrice Feather
    Kamadan Gland
    Hydra Humour
    Darkmantle Humour
    Girallon Humour
    Su-Monster Humour
    Phase Spider Gland
    Catoblepas Eye
    Chupacabra Humour
    Flail Snail Shell
    Mudmaw Hide
    Assassin Vine
    Couatl Feather
    Jaculi Hide
    Poisonous Snake Gland
    Basilisk Eye
    Carrion Crawler Gland
    Giant Fire Beetle Gland
    Gargoyle Dust
    Gordon Hide
    Giant Lizard Tail
    Manticore Tail Spikes
    Pixie Dust
    Salamander Internal Forge
    Flying Snake Feather
    Flying Snake Gland
    Wyvern Gland
    Wyvern Claw

    If I allow players to do this (you gotta be careful, otherwise the players will turn your campaign into a factorio game with them at the center of it), I use the reagents as part of the spell that is cast upon the finished sword.
    Unless it's something you could realistically add to the molten metal during smithing.

    I mean... its all carbon. And adding carbon is how you make steel.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • Nerdsamwich Nerdsamwich Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    So, kind of a weird question, but if someone were using unique materials to make a magic weapon would they put the materials directly into the molten steel, or what?

    For context, I thought in my next campaign I might have it so that magic weapons can be crafted from specific materials, like from the talons of a magical creature or something.

    I've actually got an ingredient list I'm working on:
    Shocker Lizard Gland
    Phase Wasp Gland
    Ether Scarab Gland
    Corollax Feather
    Cockatrice Beak
    Cockatrice Feather
    Kamadan Gland
    Hydra Humour
    Darkmantle Humour
    Girallon Humour
    Su-Monster Humour
    Phase Spider Gland
    Catoblepas Eye
    Chupacabra Humour
    Flail Snail Shell
    Mudmaw Hide
    Assassin Vine
    Couatl Feather
    Jaculi Hide
    Poisonous Snake Gland
    Basilisk Eye
    Carrion Crawler Gland
    Giant Fire Beetle Gland
    Gargoyle Dust
    Gordon Hide
    Giant Lizard Tail
    Manticore Tail Spikes
    Pixie Dust
    Salamander Internal Forge
    Flying Snake Feather
    Flying Snake Gland
    Wyvern Gland
    Wyvern Claw

    You can grind any of those and add it to fluxing agents to be used during smithing. They could also be used in an oil or unguent for anointing or quenching the weapon after the hot part, or they could be burned in the forge fire. Many on your list could also be involved in fit and finish, ie handle, hilt, pommel, scabbard, etc.

    Hexmage-PAElvenshaeMrVyngaardAnialos
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    The fighter in my last game wanted to make moontouched arrows and needed some special flowers as an ingredient. He asked during the forging of the arrowheads how the heck he incorporated the flower. I hadn't thought about it so I decided you needed to boil them and quench the metal in the liquid.

    I asked him to make an arcana check (he already had the recipe and the materials so no matter what he rolled, I would have let him make the arrowheads). He rolled really low and I said "you gotta make tea with the flowers, drink them, and then piss on the arrowheads while they're still red hot"

    After he made his batch of arrows the bard asked why he didn't just dip the arrowheads in the tea and he rolled another arcana check and "yes that probably would have worked too, but that wouldn't make you feel like as much of a rugged outdoors survival crafter" and he agreed, telling the bard that was definitely the only way to do it

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  • WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    This may be a week or more old (which in internet terms is "ancient history"), but in case this hasn't been posted yet and someone hasn't seen it, it's pretty heartwarming and sweet:

    https://m.imgur.com/gallery/rq5agiQ

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    At the end of my recent campaign a player character became the new Archduke of Stygia. I decided this morning I wanted to follow up on that, so I wrote up a list of government offices waiting to be filled, ones with names like "Minister of Soul Procurement & Processing" and "Minister of Compulsory Servitude". I also listed multiple candidates for each, nearly all of whom are traitors with obvious red flags.

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  • TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    You could require mixing the ingredients into an acid used to etch runes into the metal.

    Hell, some of those ingredients are probably caustic enough to do the etching themselves.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    Honestly trying to implement a crafting system that actually takes finding ingredients into account (whereas the official rules just have you spend gp to buy abstract ingredients) is a bit harder than I thought. I could just be over thinking it, though. I want the ingredients to have a gp worth that makes sense. I assume ingredients that could make rare and very rare items should be worth more. So far I'm going with 1/2 the price of a consumable item (by rarity).

    Part of my reasoning for implementing crafting and ingredients is because the campaign will be in a jungle, part of it is a desire to get the players thinking more about their items (whereas the players in my last campaign largely forgot about their's), and part of it is to replicate an aspect of the Etrian Odyssey games.

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  • ArcanisTheImpotentArcanisTheImpotent Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    my players went through their second "legitimate" dungeon crawl, raiding a literal egyptian-style tomb

    this is the first dungeon with actual traps that weren't assembled by shmucks, and i thought we'd clear the dungeon in one session

    i underestimated the sheer amount of paranoia and PTSD that could be generated by clever, ruthless traps

    to be clear, things started off IMMEDIATELY with a dangerous scything blade trap, and the dungeon itself actually told them to leave or die as they entered, so they knew what they were getting into

    a good time was had by all, and while i don't want my players to default to "check every 5 foot square" they basically were doing that by the end because of how bastardly the traps were

    highlights of the evening:

    - the two rogues trapped in a room with a pair of statues belching sand from their mouths after checking a stone tablet with indecipherable magical writing that rearranged itself basically to say "die alone, losers" (the sorcerer disintegrated the stone block that fell from the ceiling to trap them in)

    - the party cleverly blocking vertical spikes with wall of stone

    - the sorcerer grabbing the second key needed to progress from the anti-magic field and spending all his lucky points to succeed on the saving throw against banishment (with no other casters within visible range to counterspell it)

    - the party fighting a room full of mimics and getting a twinned polymorph to turn the ranger and the mystic into giant apes who proceeded to basically take their aggression out on the dungeon and break a bunch of shit

    it was a true DM's delight watching the paranoia flower blossom

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  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Honestly trying to implement a crafting system that actually takes finding ingredients into account (whereas the official rules just have you spend gp to buy abstract ingredients) is a bit harder than I thought. I could just be over thinking it, though. I want the ingredients to have a gp worth that makes sense. I assume ingredients that could make rare and very rare items should be worth more. So far I'm going with 1/2 the price of a consumable item (by rarity).

    Part of my reasoning for implementing crafting and ingredients is because the campaign will be in a jungle, part of it is a desire to get the players thinking more about their items (whereas the players in my last campaign largely forgot about their's), and part of it is to replicate an aspect of the Etrian Odyssey games.

    So my players are currently running around in a jungle and after clever girl-ing one of the players they ended up murdering quite a few raptors.
    They then ran into 3 oversized gorillas, killing one, setting another on fire while the third stared at a hypnotic pattern.
    THE sodding paladin, of all people, made it a point to collect all the teeth he could.
    He now not only has a bag full of mundane raptor/giant gorilla teeth but also expects them to somehow combine into a magic item D:

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  • NipsNips Luxuriating in existential crisis.Registered User regular
    Regarding the talk of crafting: a few months ago I read through The Angry GM's blog post series on adding Crafting to D&D. While I'm not a huge fan of his tone and style, he puts a lot of good thought into why and how, and the repercussions of adding it to the game. It's a worthwhile read, IMO.

    JXUBxMxP0QndjQUEnTwTxOkfKmx8kWNvuc-FUtbSz_23_DAhGKe7W9spFKLXAtkpTBqM8Dt6kQrv-rS69Hi3FheL3fays2xTeVUvWR7g5UyLHnFA0frGk1BC12GYdOSRn9lbaJB-uH0htiLPJMrc9cSRsIgk5Dx7jg9K8rJVfG43lkeAWxTgcolNscW9KO2UZjKT8GMbYAFgFvu2TaMoLH8LBA5p2pm6VNYRsQK3QGjCsze1TOv2yIbCazmDwCHmjiQxNDf6LHP35msyiXo3CxuWs9Y8DQvJjvj10kWaspRNlWHKjS5w9Y0KLuIkhQKOxgaDziG290v4zBmTi-i7OfDz-foqIqKzC9wTbn9i_uU87GRitmrNAJdzRRsaTW5VQu_XX_5gCN8XCoNyu5RWWVGTsjJuyezz1_NpFa903Uj2TnFqnL1wJ-RZiFAAd2Bdut-G1pdQtdQihsq2dx_BjtmtGC3KZRyylO1t2c12dhfb0rStq4v8pg46ciOcdtT_1qm85IgUmGd7AmgLxCFPb0xnxWZvr26G-oXSqrQdjKA1zNIInSowiHcbUO2O8S5LRJVR6vQiEg0fbGXw4vqJYEn917tnzHMh8r0xom8BLKMvoFDelk6wbEeNq8w8Eyu2ouGjEMIvvJcb2az2AKQ1uE_7gdatfKG2QdvfdSBRSc35MQ=w498-h80-no
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  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    evilthecat wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Honestly trying to implement a crafting system that actually takes finding ingredients into account (whereas the official rules just have you spend gp to buy abstract ingredients) is a bit harder than I thought. I could just be over thinking it, though. I want the ingredients to have a gp worth that makes sense. I assume ingredients that could make rare and very rare items should be worth more. So far I'm going with 1/2 the price of a consumable item (by rarity).

    Part of my reasoning for implementing crafting and ingredients is because the campaign will be in a jungle, part of it is a desire to get the players thinking more about their items (whereas the players in my last campaign largely forgot about their's), and part of it is to replicate an aspect of the Etrian Odyssey games.

    So my players are currently running around in a jungle and after clever girl-ing one of the players they ended up murdering quite a few raptors.
    They then ran into 3 oversized gorillas, killing one, setting another on fire while the third stared at a hypnotic pattern.
    THE sodding paladin, of all people, made it a point to collect all the teeth he could.
    He now not only has a bag full of mundane raptor/giant gorilla teeth but also expects them to somehow combine into a magic item D:

    I am sure there's some kind of Death Cult that could help him out? Dedicate an offering to their Chaotic Evil god and Bob's Your Uncle. Just needs to uhhh play it fast and loose with his oath.

    Hexmage-PAElvenshae
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    evilthecat wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Honestly trying to implement a crafting system that actually takes finding ingredients into account (whereas the official rules just have you spend gp to buy abstract ingredients) is a bit harder than I thought. I could just be over thinking it, though. I want the ingredients to have a gp worth that makes sense. I assume ingredients that could make rare and very rare items should be worth more. So far I'm going with 1/2 the price of a consumable item (by rarity).

    Part of my reasoning for implementing crafting and ingredients is because the campaign will be in a jungle, part of it is a desire to get the players thinking more about their items (whereas the players in my last campaign largely forgot about their's), and part of it is to replicate an aspect of the Etrian Odyssey games.

    So my players are currently running around in a jungle and after clever girl-ing one of the players they ended up murdering quite a few raptors.
    They then ran into 3 oversized gorillas, killing one, setting another on fire while the third stared at a hypnotic pattern.
    THE sodding paladin, of all people, made it a point to collect all the teeth he could.
    He now not only has a bag full of mundane raptor/giant gorilla teeth but also expects them to somehow combine into a magic item D:

    Personally I'd require something from a creature whose attacks count as magic weapons to craft a magic weapon with them. No reason some other, minor item couldn't be made, though!

    Raptor Teeth + Giant Ape Teeth + Abyssal Blackgrass = Necklace of the Jungle Lords. Advantage on intimidation versus beasts. Can invoke Hex once, after which the blackgrass cord and animal teeth disintegrate and the item loses its power.

    The paladin probably won't want to know that demonic spirits from Demogorgon's realm power the item, though.

    For my own crafting system I'm actually mostly using plant and mineral sources.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    In general i dont like crafting in table top. And angry GMs contruction is more or less correct. Its another facet of character customization and players dont care for the nitty gritty they just want to be customized.

    This is especially true if you are thinking about making a list of all these things in the jungle theyre going to need to make x.

    Functionally what happens is the player asks “what is the list of things i can make”. They then ignore the side of the requirements. Then they find what they want to make. Then they say “DM i want to find these ingredients”.

    At which point youre back to the functional equivalent of “i went to the place and found the loot”. Puzzle based crafting doesnt work. Loot based crafting where you pick up lots of stuff doesnt work. These are things that can onlywork in a videogame.

    Angry GM just says “nop make it with gold everyone can make things with gold” and that is more or less correct and good. It has its own problems but the base of it is the only thing that makes sense for players actually at a table.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    I feel like magic crafting is just "use these components and a ritual to alchemy a magical goo/powder/metal/material that is then added to the weapon at some point in some way"

    Like the oil you put on the sharpening stone or the gold in the hilt or the jewels used or leather wrap or what have you

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Basically my method of crafting in dnd is

    1)“what do you want to make?”
    2) determine what kind of quest would be necessary to acquire that item based on its power
    3) pull ingredients out of my butt that correspond to that quest
    4) tell the player what they have to do.

    Making a big ol list for players to pick through that has anything other than gold cost? Oh hell no

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    I just found out that I need to get a copy of Volo's Guide to All Things Magical because it lists all kinds of gems, metals, wood, etc useful for magic item creation.

    For example, a regular old sardonyx gem has a chance of negating magic missile apparently.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    Goumindong wrote: »
    In general i dont like crafting in table top. And angry GMs contruction is more or less correct. Its another facet of character customization and players dont care for the nitty gritty they just want to be customized.

    This is especially true if you are thinking about making a list of all these things in the jungle theyre going to need to make x.

    Functionally what happens is the player asks “what is the list of things i can make”. They then ignore the side of the requirements. Then they find what they want to make. Then they say “DM i want to find these ingredients”.

    At which point youre back to the functional equivalent of “i went to the place and found the loot”. Puzzle based crafting doesnt work. Loot based crafting where you pick up lots of stuff doesnt work. These are things that can onlywork in a videogame.

    Angry GM just says “nop make it with gold everyone can make things with gold” and that is more or less correct and good. It has its own problems but the base of it is the only thing that makes sense for players actually at a table.

    I've found many players enjoy collecting things with no obvious value, and crafting gives them something to do with things they find other than cash them in for gold. I may give the ingredients special properties of their own ("You can take the time to refine this into a healing potion, or eat it now to heal a few hit points but also get the poisoned condition for one minute.").

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    In general i dont like crafting in table top. And angry GMs contruction is more or less correct. Its another facet of character customization and players dont care for the nitty gritty they just want to be customized.

    This is especially true if you are thinking about making a list of all these things in the jungle theyre going to need to make x.

    Functionally what happens is the player asks “what is the list of things i can make”. They then ignore the side of the requirements. Then they find what they want to make. Then they say “DM i want to find these ingredients”.

    At which point youre back to the functional equivalent of “i went to the place and found the loot”. Puzzle based crafting doesnt work. Loot based crafting where you pick up lots of stuff doesnt work. These are things that can onlywork in a videogame.

    Angry GM just says “nop make it with gold everyone can make things with gold” and that is more or less correct and good. It has its own problems but the base of it is the only thing that makes sense for players actually at a table.

    I've found many players enjoy collecting things with no obvious value, and crafting gives them something to do with things they find other than cash them in for gold. I may give the ingredients special properties of their own ("You can take the time to refine this into a healing potion, or eat it now to heal a few hit points but also get the poisoned condition for one minute.").

    That is fine. But you aren't defining the effects of these things and then giving them out as loot. They're taking them and then you're saying after the fact "you can do this with them". Which is roughly the same as giving the equipment out as loot.

    Which is fine. But its more or less the same construction of crafting that i put above. Except that instead of saying "i want this" the player said "what can i have?"

    wbBv3fj.png
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    Having a rather heated debate about whether or not investigation requires to touch something

    I told the DM I don't know if I touch a thing, and he said "its a simple question" and I said "I dont know if an adventurer has to touch something to check it for traps" and he said "I guess its not a simple question but okay, you touch it. It causes the trap to go off"

    Im going to wait after game but this ruling essentially makes it impossible to check for traps if you auto trigger traps without getting a chance to roll, making my +14 investigation kind of worthless... what do you guys think? Should I just let that go or does that seem wrong

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  • WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    I thought Perception is the more pertinent skill for trap finding, while Investigation is for "looking for clues to a case", eg use Investigation to check through the diary of a man to find out where he last went, that sorta thing?

    Moridin889
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Just read the 5e trap rules for the first time. Boy they sure fucked that little section over with ambiguity. It is normally Perception though I guess sometimes you need to do a Investigation check to know how to disable it on top of a Thieves Tool check to actually do it.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    our general rule is perception for things from a distance/finding hidden things/locating a hidden trap thats in the floor or whatever

    Investigation is within 5 feet, you're close enough to see everything, so you're just deducing if any of it is fucky

    it makes it generally pretty clear which is why all of us do it that way (I'm not sure what the rai way is)

    prewritten modules tell you which one is applicable, regardless, in this circumstance I said "I want to check for traps" and he said that would be investigation but asked if I touch the thing, which caused a bit of an argument because I dont have any idea how a skilled rogue checks for traps and if it requires touching them. He ultimately made the call that it was required, so regardless of my roll, I set the trap off - meaning that this was an impossible trap to locate

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    "Do i have to touch something" is a good deliminator as it goes but its not the best. I think the best is probably if this were an opposed check would it be opposed by a physical attribute or a mental attribute? If it would be opposed by a mental attribute then its an investigation check.

    If you want to know how a trap works you would indeed "investigate". If you wanted to ransack a room for treasure you would indeed "investigate". If you wanted to notice someone walking by outside while you investigate that is perception. You investigate because you're asking "if this were trapped how would i trap it" and you're perceiving if you're like "that is a spike"

    An alternate answer might be "Do you hold your chin between your thumb and pointer finger and furrow your brow when you typically do this activity and/or use a magnifying glass?" and if the answer is yes then its investigation.

    The PHB says "When you look around for clues and make deductions based on those clues, you make an Intelligence (Investigation) check. You might deduce the location of a hidden object, discern from the appearance o f a wound what kind of weapon dealt it, or determine the weakest point in a tunnel that could cause it to collapse. Poring through ancient scrolls in search of a hidden fragment of knowledge might also call for an Intelligence (Investigation) check."


    I am not sure if there is a good reason to have these be separate skills anymore. Especially if you first have to perception check the trap and then investigate to see how it work and then thieves tools to disarm. But i can see arguments for how that would work. (Perception "there is a trap" investigation "you know how the trap works and can maybe disable it" thieves tools "you can break this device to make sure it doesn't work but you can't reset it".


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    NipsElvenshaeIvellius
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    I think the big difference is that Investigation involves some processing of the data? Like, noticing that the clock has gears would be perception but understanding what the gears do would be investigation. Really it feels like a kludge to justify Thieves Tools being a proficiency equal to a skill instead of just having a Disable Device skill like previous.

    Though Investigation does seem to have like a billion things crammed into it so long as they fall vaguely under "smart stuff".

    NipsMoridin889ElvenshaeIvellius
  • NarbusNarbus Registered User regular
    The real way to run traps is to set them up with a pattern that smart players can capitalize on. Every statue holding a sword in it's left hand is trapped. The bandits who came in before you had a knack for crossbow traps set up with trip wires. Rooms with dragon statues do bad things.

    Let the players learn, and then throw in complications. Otherwise it's just gambling.

    SleepMoridin889AldoElvenshaeJustTee
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Out of the Abyss is getting interesting, the boss of this mini dungeon was an insane spirit that said I NEED LIFE, I WISH TO RETURN TO LIFE, I WILL FEAST ON YOU ALL

    Before fighting it, I asked it what it needed and it said ALL YOUR LIFE ENERGY TO RETURN

    I had a bunch of sequestere'd goblins in a shrunken house in my bag of holding (long story) and I said "If I feed you, will you guide us past the traps?"

    DM had to do a lot of thinking, his notes have the archmage to want to come back to life. I said "okay ima expand this house in the cavern, there will be plenty of goblin cultists of tharzidun in there to eat"

    The evil ghost boss eats all the goblins, and a haughty looking human woman with white skin and long black hair covered in runes comes out 15 minutes later, body covered in glowing magical glyphs that are arcing with lighnting, an ancient netherese archmage has been returned to the world by an idiot player

    "I use my magic jar on her before she can even say anything". Nat 1 save.

    So now I'm an ancient netherese boss mage lady with 102 hitpoints. Forever. I have to keep feign deathing my real body which has been shoved into my leomunds secret chest. I have 15 + dex AC all the time now from the abjuration runes.

    I talked to the archmage's soul telepathically and she was a little absolutely livid. She really, really wanted to come back so she could pursue lichdom. Oh well!*

    *I'm aware feign death doesn't remove the need to breath, but that's the house rule in this game, essentially if someone is Feign Death'd they dont need food, air, or drink, and dont age

    I'm not sure how long this situation is going to last for but you can probably tell by my character's art alone that I'm not playing the type of fey who stops and thinks things through before doing them
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  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    My criteria are as follows; Perception to find something, Investigate to learn about it through examination, whatever that may entail, Applicable skill to deal with it after that.

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    requiring 3 skill checks to successfully defeat a trap seems awfully harsh, im totally cool with the way we handle it, i just had a bit of a niggle with apparently no check mattering because I couldnt answer HOW my character looks for traps. Regardless, overall it was a great session

    Essentially the way we run it is, if you dont know a trap is there it's perception to find it (and just thieves tools to disarm it if you know its there), but if I say something like "I want to check the door/chest/lockbox/boxer shorts for traps" then its investigation because I'm closely examining a specific thing, a thing that likely has a trap you probably couldn't find with a perception check because its hidden behind something

    anyway thats just the way we handle it, but none of our active groups have a rogue so we kind of make it slightly easier (tinkers tools also work to disarm found traps)

  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    requiring 3 skill checks to successfully defeat a trap seems awfully harsh, im totally cool with the way we handle it, i just had a bit of a niggle with apparently no check mattering because I couldnt answer HOW my character looks for traps. Regardless, overall it was a great session

    Essentially the way we run it is, if you dont know a trap is there it's perception to find it (and just thieves tools to disarm it if you know its there), but if I say something like "I want to check the door/chest/lockbox/boxer shorts for traps" then its investigation because I'm closely examining a specific thing, a thing that likely has a trap you probably couldn't find with a perception check because its hidden behind something

    anyway thats just the way we handle it, but none of our active groups have a rogue so we kind of make it slightly easier (tinkers tools also work to disarm found traps)

    I should elaborate, the examine is usually for granting advantage on the disarm part. If you spend the time to figure it out, it's easier to disarm. Thats a choice dependent on the cirucmstances of the situation though. If you fail on the examination you don't get any additional benefit. Also depending on the trap if you do a good examination you might be able to re-arm it if you want.

    Investigation is usually the time dependent check when I run games. To each their own though!

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    oh thats a neat idea

  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Also, if a GM asks if you touch a thing, the default answer should always be "No" :P

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