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[Star Trek] Ship Noises - Spoiler Discovery talk

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Strikor wrote: »
    Don't forget that disinfectants are apparently not considered honorable.

    Here you go, everyone pass this blade around and cut yourselves with it. Nothing could go wrong.

    Eh, it's the future. Despite being a bunch of blade-obsessed alcoholics, how many Klingons do you see that are short an arm or leg? They've probably just got something stashed in a belt that can clean an injury perfectly, to allow for easy reattachment of severed parts later.

    Doodmann
  • AuralynxAuralynx Thirty-Seven Keys Registered User regular
    Strikor wrote: »
    Don't forget that disinfectants are apparently not considered honorable.

    Here you go, everyone pass this blade around and cut yourselves with it. Nothing could go wrong.

    Eh, it's the future. Despite being a bunch of blade-obsessed alcoholics, how many Klingons do you see that are short an arm or leg? They've probably just got something stashed in a belt that can clean an injury perfectly, to allow for easy reattachment of severed parts later.

    I think they have redundant organs and a bunch of other hand-wavey reasons they're extra tough, no?

    Space... what is the point of it? You have no idea.
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  • ChanusChanus Sugoi! ^_____^Registered User regular
    um obviously if your species doesn’t use antibiotics you would eventually evolve not to need them

    that’s just science, guys

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Auralynx wrote: »
    Strikor wrote: »
    Don't forget that disinfectants are apparently not considered honorable.

    Here you go, everyone pass this blade around and cut yourselves with it. Nothing could go wrong.

    Eh, it's the future. Despite being a bunch of blade-obsessed alcoholics, how many Klingons do you see that are short an arm or leg? They've probably just got something stashed in a belt that can clean an injury perfectly, to allow for easy reattachment of severed parts later.

    I think they have redundant organs and a bunch of other hand-wavey reasons they're extra tough, no?

    Not exactly hand-wavey when you consider the evolutionary pressures of constantly stabbing and cutting each other over thousands of generations.

  • AuralynxAuralynx Thirty-Seven Keys Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Auralynx wrote: »
    Strikor wrote: »
    Don't forget that disinfectants are apparently not considered honorable.

    Here you go, everyone pass this blade around and cut yourselves with it. Nothing could go wrong.

    Eh, it's the future. Despite being a bunch of blade-obsessed alcoholics, how many Klingons do you see that are short an arm or leg? They've probably just got something stashed in a belt that can clean an injury perfectly, to allow for easy reattachment of severed parts later.

    I think they have redundant organs and a bunch of other hand-wavey reasons they're extra tough, no?

    Not exactly hand-wavey when you consider the evolutionary pressures of constantly stabbing and cutting each other over thousands of generations.

    Two livers and a third lung are some of the examples on Memory Alpha, and there's really no good reason for that apart from writers preferring "more is better" to coming up with an explanation that makes any actual sense, though. You sort of have to wonder where they'd fit all of this stuff.

    Auralynx on
    Space... what is the point of it? You have no idea.
    OSvv7zs.png


    BloodySloth
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Auralynx wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Auralynx wrote: »
    Strikor wrote: »
    Don't forget that disinfectants are apparently not considered honorable.

    Here you go, everyone pass this blade around and cut yourselves with it. Nothing could go wrong.

    Eh, it's the future. Despite being a bunch of blade-obsessed alcoholics, how many Klingons do you see that are short an arm or leg? They've probably just got something stashed in a belt that can clean an injury perfectly, to allow for easy reattachment of severed parts later.

    I think they have redundant organs and a bunch of other hand-wavey reasons they're extra tough, no?

    Not exactly hand-wavey when you consider the evolutionary pressures of constantly stabbing and cutting each other over thousands of generations.

    Two livers and a third lung are some of the examples on Memory Alpha, and there's really no good reason for that apart from writers preferring "more is better" to coming up with an explanation that makes any actual sense, though. You sort of have to wonder where they'd fit all of this stuff.

    Two livers isn't crazy talk, relatively speaking. A third lung is just weird. It's unfortunate that the Trek writers have about as good a grasp of what evolution is as a drunken goat.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Also, from the examples we have of other lifeforms from Qo'noS (including what Worf devolves into), it seems that a lot of it is armored and/or equipped with tusks, spikes, etc for getting through same.
    Whole planet is pretty badass, it seems.

    Commander Zoom on
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  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    It's basically the Heavy Metal Planet we never saw on TOS.

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Strikor wrote: »
    Don't forget that disinfectants are apparently not considered honorable.

    Here you go, everyone pass this blade around and cut yourselves with it. Nothing could go wrong.

    Eh, it's the future. Despite being a bunch of blade-obsessed alcoholics, how many Klingons do you see that are short an arm or leg? They've probably just got something stashed in a belt that can clean an injury perfectly, to allow for easy reattachment of severed parts later.

    pretty sure the Klingon cure for cripling disabilities is suicide.

    SleepChanusAuralynxStrikorNightslyrCommander Zoomoverride367ShadowenLoserForHireXDonnictonJacobkoshElldren
  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    My main beef with the whole handchopping thing is the fact that you'd assume a culture whose primary Thing is prowess in hand-to-hand combat with edged weapons would be a little silly to make a standard ritual out of wounding your main weapon-handling surfaces.

    Like, dudes. Back of a forearm or something, c'mon. Pragmatism!
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Strikor wrote: »
    Don't forget that disinfectants are apparently not considered honorable.

    Here you go, everyone pass this blade around and cut yourselves with it. Nothing could go wrong.

    Eh, it's the future. Despite being a bunch of blade-obsessed alcoholics, how many Klingons do you see that are short an arm or leg? They've probably just got something stashed in a belt that can clean an injury perfectly, to allow for easy reattachment of severed parts later.

    pretty sure the Klingon cure for cripling disabilities is suicide.

    Yeah, it is. TNG built an episode around exactly that.

    Auralynxoverride367DonnictonHeffling
  • grumblethorngrumblethorn Registered User regular
    Ezri was just peaches and cream. Loved the actor and the character. I felt she had a bit more warmth and pathos to farrell's somewhat wooden and cold performances.

  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    I found Ezri too cutesy, myself, but I have to admit that I stopped watching DS9 around the time of the Great Dax Swap, so I can't really say I ever gave her a fair chance.

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  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    I would have been fine with Jadzia leaving the show, even if her death was kinda... not well done.... IF they hadn't immediately replaced her with Jadzia Lite. Not just because new Dax was annoying, but because it sucked all of the air out of what should be a big, important moment in the series where a main character we have all gotten to know over several seasons bites the dust.

    Given that this was a character who was always (like, from the pilot episode) going on about her previous lives and how she was a symbiote who had multiple hosts have you got that yet, it would have felt more weird if she'd died, the Dax symbiote had been shipped off to get implanted in someone else, and never been seen again.

    I remember one commentary or something where Michael Dorn said he thought Jadzia should have died on the away mission with Worf, with Worf choosing the mission over saving her life.

    And Ezri was the best response to having to replace a main character that you weren't originally planning to. The mechanism's been established for the entire series, not using it when you have the opportunity would be absurd. She comes off as Jadzia-lite at first because that's all we know about her, but she does establish herself as time goes on.

    I think if they'd known going in that they'd change Daxes during the series, they'd have done things differently. My approach would have been to:
    a) Kill Jadzia a season earlier, so they can establish a new character without having to pull a lot of attention from the climax of the series-long arcs.
    b) Introduce Ezri Tigan earlier than that as a recurring character (probably have her counselling Miles on his trauma of the week), and establish her as one of the (majority of) Trills who don't want or expect to be joined. That way, when she volunteers to save the Dax symbiote, we'd see the personality change and know that's it's an actual sacrifice on her part; it's glossed over on the show because it's showing the fallout of her being implanted without any of the usual training, but Ezri Tigan sacrificed who she was to save another.

    I think the best choice would have been to kill the symbiote too. Just because we have a convenient plot device to replace the character doesn't mean we should.

    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
    This
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    They should have put the symbiote in a little flying robot body.

    SealStrikoroverride367NightslyrDonnicton
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    klemming wrote: »
    I would have been fine with Jadzia leaving the show, even if her death was kinda... not well done.... IF they hadn't immediately replaced her with Jadzia Lite. Not just because new Dax was annoying, but because it sucked all of the air out of what should be a big, important moment in the series where a main character we have all gotten to know over several seasons bites the dust.

    Given that this was a character who was always (like, from the pilot episode) going on about her previous lives and how she was a symbiote who had multiple hosts have you got that yet, it would have felt more weird if she'd died, the Dax symbiote had been shipped off to get implanted in someone else, and never been seen again.

    I remember one commentary or something where Michael Dorn said he thought Jadzia should have died on the away mission with Worf, with Worf choosing the mission over saving her life.

    And Ezri was the best response to having to replace a main character that you weren't originally planning to. The mechanism's been established for the entire series, not using it when you have the opportunity would be absurd. She comes off as Jadzia-lite at first because that's all we know about her, but she does establish herself as time goes on.

    I think if they'd known going in that they'd change Daxes during the series, they'd have done things differently. My approach would have been to:
    a) Kill Jadzia a season earlier, so they can establish a new character without having to pull a lot of attention from the climax of the series-long arcs.
    b) Introduce Ezri Tigan earlier than that as a recurring character (probably have her counselling Miles on his trauma of the week), and establish her as one of the (majority of) Trills who don't want or expect to be joined. That way, when she volunteers to save the Dax symbiote, we'd see the personality change and know that's it's an actual sacrifice on her part; it's glossed over on the show because it's showing the fallout of her being implanted without any of the usual training, but Ezri Tigan sacrificed who she was to save another.

    Why?

    It's happened before. Like, yeah, you'd maybe have the symbiote in a special guest actor that was around for a few episodes here and there but there's no reason for the symbiote to go right back to what it was doing before and right from the start in the pilot we get the impression that each host goes and does it's own kind of thing. Not avoiding it's old life but not repeating it either.

    It would have felt weird to have neoDax never show up at all. It would have been fine to have her/him not be a series regular. It felt like a silly attempt at trying to recast the roll like you would on a soap.

    At least they did some interesting stuff with it though.

    shryke on
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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    the ezri issue is that they had too many episodes focused on her in season 7. They wanted to give that character a ton of advances to bring her on to par as everybody else but they were forced to cram it all into one season and it doens't work.

    the character itself is totally fine, but fans grew to dislike her immediately as it just felt like she kept being force on everyone constantly.

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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    They should have put the symbiote in a little flying robot body.

    Ezri's like "this isn't even my final form!"

    override367chrono_travellerHeffling
  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    the symbiote winds up in Gul Dukat somehow

    the symbiote winds up in Neelix (it turns out he has spots because he's part trill)

    Hahnsoo1override367NightslyrDonnicton
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    I know Michael Dorn has been trying to get a Worf spinoff greenlit for ages, but has CBS ever actually looked into doing a Klingon spinoff. That seems like an obvious thing that doesn't exist for some reason.

    AbsoluteZeroTransporter
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    wandering wrote: »
    the symbiote winds up in Gul Dukat somehow

    Dax Dukat does that thing which materializes past hosts, he and Joran fall in love and build a little cottage in the fire caves.

    StrikorZibblsnrtDonnictonVoodooV
  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    I loved every episode Ezri was in, so I've never really understood the resentment against her being "forced" on the viewer or suchlike, honestly.

    Elldren
  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    I found her unnecessary at best and annoying at worst. I remember not being real impressed with her acting either. Not that DS9 is high art or anything.

    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
  • RamiRami Registered User regular
    I liked Ezri but I do remember her being in the spotlight too often in a short space of time.

    It's a real shame because the symbiote was such a unique lifeform to explore. You had the past with Sisko, the current version that everyone gets to know and become friends with, and then the 'future' version that is a unique person and has to befriend everyone again, while still carrying the memories and experiences of previous relationships with the rest of the crew. But it needed more time.

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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Rami wrote: »
    I liked Ezri but I do remember her being in the spotlight too often in a short space of time.

    It's a real shame because the symbiote was such a unique lifeform to explore. You had the past with Sisko, the current version that everyone gets to know and become friends with, and then the 'future' version that is a unique person and has to befriend everyone again, while still carrying the memories and experiences of previous relationships with the rest of the crew. But it needed more time.

    which is odd because every single thing with the symbiotes emphasizes that the new hosts should not associate with people from their past lives or the host will be overwhelmed by the previous host's personality, and putting someone as meek and ill prepared on DS9 with their previous friends and love on board seems like the worst idea. It's like they were grooming her to be overwhelmed by the symbiote.

  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Didn't half or more of the rules regarding symbiosis turn out to be complete bullshit? I remember one of them was "Oh yeah, everybody can do it, it's not some rare gift". Wouldn't be a huge leap to think most of their "rules" turned out to be bunk as well.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Didn't half or more of the rules regarding symbiosis turn out to be complete bullshit? I remember one of them was "Oh yeah, everybody can do it, it's not some rare gift". Wouldn't be a huge leap to think most of their "rules" turned out to be bunk as well.

    No. The whole "only certain people can bond with a symbiote" thing was a supposed fact the government perpetuated that turned out to be a lie to keep people from fighting over symbiotes. And that's basically the only one I can think of like that. The rule about living your own life with the symbiote and not just going back to the previous host's life is just a cultural practice built around the idea that symbiotes should have diverse experiences.

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  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    OH GOD THE LEADERS OF THE BREEN ARE CALLED THOTS

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  • AistanAistan Registered User regular
    Hello Star Trek nerds, do you want to watch a Star Trek nerd nerd about potential Star Trek, knowing that nothing being proposed will ever happen in a million years?



    I love it when Mike and Rich nerd out about Star Trek but the fact that this isn't going to be what the Picard show will be makes me very sad.

    ...

    In that context I guess it's technically half an hour talking about fanfiction. Hrm.

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    I loved every episode Ezri was in, so I've never really understood the resentment against her being "forced" on the viewer or suchlike, honestly.

    I didn't feel like the character was being forced, just that they were trying to cram a level of development similar to Dax into less than a season and so she ended up getting a lot of screentime that would've been better used wrapping up the series. Having her come to terms with the symbiote changes and whatnot wasn't really something we needed multiple episodes of during the last season of the show. There were just larger issues going on, we didn't really need to have things like a whole episode about how screwed up her family is.

    I enjoyed Ezri for being a fairly cheerful character in a pretty glum situation around such bright and animated characters as Odo and Worf, and I genuinely liked the fact that she wasn't a hugely jaded know-it-all like Dax whose hobby seemed to be talking down to anybody less than a hundred years old. Dax is somebody you go to for technical advice and maybe personal advice (if you want a lecture too), Ezri was somebody you could hang out with and have a good time without being bombarded with cynicism about how immature your ideas are.

    StrikorhippofantNightslyrTofystedeth
  • BogartBogart Because I hate you Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited September 2018
    Aistan wrote: »
    Hello Star Trek nerds, do you want to watch a Star Trek nerd nerd about potential Star Trek, knowing that nothing being proposed will ever happen in a million years?

    No.

    EDIT: That sounds rude, so I guess my answer is not really. Nobody knows anything about the show and they haven't started filming yet and it may not actually get made, so yeah it is just two people talking about their personal fan fiction for half an hour. I dunno, I don't have the same appetite for this sort of thing some do.

    Bogart on
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Didn't half or more of the rules regarding symbiosis turn out to be complete bullshit? I remember one of them was "Oh yeah, everybody can do it, it's not some rare gift". Wouldn't be a huge leap to think most of their "rules" turned out to be bunk as well.
    The 'everyone can do it' thing was the fact that official word is that something like 5/10% of the population would be compatible with symbiotes (which is still far more than there are symbiotes, which is why the competition to be joined is so fierce), when it was actually closer to 50%.

    I don't know if the EU books have ever addressed it, but joined Trill are literally the privileged 1% of their population. If it were written now, I'm sure that phrase would be used.

    And the re-association rules were mostly about joined Trill not resuming relationships from prior lives with other joined Trill (which is the only thing that could be a long-term problem, as they could keep doing it life after life. Resuming a relationship with a human can't last more than two or three lifetimes, max). No-one ever voices a problem with Jadzia being friends with Curzon's old friend.

    And on top of that, they had a newly joined Trill who was completely unprepared for it and on the verge of a breakdown because of it. Better to be with some people who she knows who can help her find some kind of stability.

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  • AistanAistan Registered User regular
    It's two people I enjoy talking about a thing I enjoy in a way that I enjoy which is why I shared it, but fair enough.

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  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    Rami wrote: »
    I liked Ezri but I do remember her being in the spotlight too often in a short space of time.

    It's a real shame because the symbiote was such a unique lifeform to explore. You had the past with Sisko, the current version that everyone gets to know and become friends with, and then the 'future' version that is a unique person and has to befriend everyone again, while still carrying the memories and experiences of previous relationships with the rest of the crew. But it needed more time.

    My issue with Ezri was always that it was just a re-tread of Dax, but with all the wisdom of the character, and the gravitas of her death, essentially erased. I found the idea of the character kind of insulting -the best they could come up with to replace her was Dax 2, electric boogaloo? Not to mention is was a pretty fucked up thing to do to Worf too.

  • ChanusChanus Sugoi! ^_____^Registered User regular
    ezri was kind of very much not jadzia though?

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  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    I loved every episode Ezri was in, so I've never really understood the resentment against her being "forced" on the viewer or suchlike, honestly.

    I didn't feel like the character was being forced, just that they were trying to cram a level of development similar to Dax into less than a season and so she ended up getting a lot of screentime that would've been better used wrapping up the series. Having her come to terms with the symbiote changes and whatnot wasn't really something we needed multiple episodes of during the last season of the show. There were just larger issues going on, we didn't really need to have things like a whole episode about how screwed up her family is.

    I enjoyed Ezri for being a fairly cheerful character in a pretty glum situation around such bright and animated characters as Odo and Worf, and I genuinely liked the fact that she wasn't a hugely jaded know-it-all like Dax whose hobby seemed to be talking down to anybody less than a hundred years old. Dax is somebody you go to for technical advice and maybe personal advice (if you want a lecture too), Ezri was somebody you could hang out with and have a good time without being bombarded with cynicism about how immature your ideas are.

    Unless your ideas are about Klingon society. Then she's gonna give you some truth bombs.

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  • LoserForHireXLoserForHireX Registered User regular
    Ah, a new Star Trek Thread, time to appreciate Garak and Gul'Dukat all over again.

    I need to rewatch DS9

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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Rami wrote: »
    I liked Ezri but I do remember her being in the spotlight too often in a short space of time.

    It's a real shame because the symbiote was such a unique lifeform to explore. You had the past with Sisko, the current version that everyone gets to know and become friends with, and then the 'future' version that is a unique person and has to befriend everyone again, while still carrying the memories and experiences of previous relationships with the rest of the crew. But it needed more time.

    which is odd because every single thing with the symbiotes emphasizes that the new hosts should not associate with people from their past lives or the host will be overwhelmed by the previous host's personality, and putting someone as meek and ill prepared on DS9 with their previous friends and love on board seems like the worst idea. It's like they were grooming her to be overwhelmed by the symbiote.

    I thought that was just for romantic association, since the various Daxes seemed (mostly) comfortable with working with previous hosts' friends or colleagues on one thing or another.

    That said I mainly just assumed a lot of rules went by the wayside what with the ongoing galactic world-burning armageddon and all that.

    (Or because the writers forgot about them.)

    (or both)

  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    ezri was kind of very much not jadzia though?

    Except she was. First episode back and she's guiding the prophet on a vision quest. Not so much as Ezri, but as his lifelong friend in the symbiot.

  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    Finished ds9! Hubby watched the finale while I was out running errands. I've seen it a few times of course. He said he cried a bunch and I don't blame him.

    We decided to crunch through Voyager. The highs have been high enough through the end of season 2 that he lows, while spectacular, have been relatively worth it, even if it's just for being able to go "space fish babies" at each other and watch the other one collapse with giggles.

    ShadowenDonnictonNightslyrMancingtomChanusAnzekayForarGONG-00Heffling
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    I loved every episode Ezri was in, so I've never really understood the resentment against her being "forced" on the viewer or suchlike, honestly.

    I didn't feel like the character was being forced, just that they were trying to cram a level of development similar to Dax into less than a season and so she ended up getting a lot of screentime that would've been better used wrapping up the series. Having her come to terms with the symbiote changes and whatnot wasn't really something we needed multiple episodes of during the last season of the show. There were just larger issues going on, we didn't really need to have things like a whole episode about how screwed up her family is.

    I enjoyed Ezri for being a fairly cheerful character in a pretty glum situation around such bright and animated characters as Odo and Worf, and I genuinely liked the fact that she wasn't a hugely jaded know-it-all like Dax whose hobby seemed to be talking down to anybody less than a hundred years old. Dax is somebody you go to for technical advice and maybe personal advice (if you want a lecture too), Ezri was somebody you could hang out with and have a good time without being bombarded with cynicism about how immature your ideas are.

    Unless your ideas are about Klingon society. Then she's gonna give you some truth bombs.

    Well yeah, but Klingon society is dumb and everybody knows it except the Klingons.

    StrikorNightslyrMancingtomTofystedeth
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