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[Star Trek] Ship Noises - Spoiler Discovery talk

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Posts

  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    I really want a post-Hobus series. The destruction of Romulus, the Federation's recovery after the Dominion War, and the imminent Klingon collapse would make for some damn good political drama.

  • Monsieur TMonsieur T Registered User regular
    Dax is the kind of character they could easily bring back if they ever get back to the future. Even on Discovery, bring on whoever was Dax in that era.

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    I wouldn't. The Klingons already moan and groan about how the Empire has fallen from glory given any opportunity, I don't think I could take the epic level of whinging about former glory from a bunch of Klingons whose whole government has fallen apart.

    There's too much morose Klingon opera, and then there's way too much morose Klingon opera.

  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    I'd like to see some Klingons that weren't just two dimensional

    Space death cultists
    Space Russians
    Space Vikings

    Discovery had an interesting take on them at the start, especially how they viewed the Federation's expansion via soft power, but it quickly devolved into Klingons just naturally being violent conquerors.

    It's just hard to take Klingons seriously since 99% of their portrayals have been of warriors of one stripe or another, which automatically turns everything towards honor and glory. How do Klingon chefs view the world? Or doctors? Is all of their art about their mythology and whatnot? Is there a Klingon counterculture?

    I think the Klingons could be very interesting if someone took the time to actually think about them as an actual culture. It can't be all Kahless all the time for every Klingon.

  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    There is a pretty big difference between how characters view the Klingons and how they're actually portrayed.

    Because in every Trek show, it's not the honorable warrior Klingons who actually rise to power, it's the cunning Machievellian ones. In TOS, the Klingons had no problem playing dirty against the Federation, fighting proxy wars, sabotaging colonization efforts, spreading anti-Federation propaganda. In TNG, Duras was the most powerful house and they were very duplicitous. They tried to bribe K'Ehleyr, Picard and Worf to get them on their side. When bribery failed, they tried assassination. And Gowron wasn't very honorable either. But he was very good at using Klingon culture to manipulate people to get what he wanted.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Worf, as an outsider, bought the propaganda and modeled himself after how Klingons are supposed to be, what they say they are, in the stories they tell and songs they sing about themselves. Which is why he's so different from most "real" Klingons. He's a true believer, a paragon. (I often compare him to Steve "Captain America" Rogers.)

    Commander Zoom on
  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    I remember seeing a video essay that talked about how Klingon society is based on 'external' honor (all about image and how others see you, and doing what you're expected to do based on some honor code), while Worf, being an outsider and having to figure it out for himself based on what he's seen and heard (like Commander Zoom mentioned), interprets it as 'internal' honor (about his own sense of right and wrong). It was certainly an interesting take.

  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Klingon society is based on how rad your crazy eyes are. That's why Gowron was emperor for so long.

    Edit: Also, my husband is Lakota and watching Voyager with him is... Woof. I had no idea they did so much stuff with Chakotay and his heritage and stuff and... It isn't great!

    Metzger Meister on
  • StrikorStrikor Calibrations? Calibrations! Registered User regular
    I think I remember reading that the guy they hired to do all the Native American stuff ended up to be a total fraud and made everything up. It shows.

  • wanderingwandering Russia state-affiliated media Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    I liked some of the ideas behind Discovery's Klingons more than I liked how they executed them.

    For example, I liked the idea that the Klingons hated the Federation not for their military power but their 'soft' power. But I think this is something that should've been shown rather than just talked about. Show me, say, Klingon parents furious with their kids for drinking Earl Grey (hot) and doing the Vulcan salute.

    Also, the idea that the Klingons were a bunch of warring factions who decided to unite to fight the Federation is interesting, but I thought it was weird that the factions were able to come to peace terms in the course of like, one single 5 minute meeting.

    "So, hey guys, I know we're all mortal enemies here, and we've been fighting for decades upon decades, but what if we put aside our differences and teamed up?"

    "Yeah sure."

    "Sounds cool."

    There's a reason no newspaper has ever printed the phrase "peace talk", singular! I know with Star Trek you gotta suspend your disbelief a lot but somehow that was a (starship) bridge too far for me. I think it would've been better if the Klingons teaming up happened off screen. Show us Klingons from different factions attacking the Federation in unison, then show the Federation saying "Oh shit, the factions have teamed up!" No need to show us the interfactional diplomatic talk(s).

    wandering on
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Aistan wrote: »
    It's two people I enjoy talking about a thing I enjoy in a way that I enjoy which is why I shared it, but fair enough.

    Yeah I came off like a dick there. Sorry.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    wandering wrote: »
    I liked some of the ideas behind Discovery's Klingons more than I liked how they executed them.

    For example, I liked the idea that the Klingons hated the Federation not for their military power but their 'soft' power. But I think this is something that should've been shown rather than just talked about. Show me, say, Klingon parents furious with their kids for drinking Earl Grey (hot) and doing the Vulcan salute.

    Also, the idea that the Klingons were a bunch of warring factions who decided to unite to fight the Federation is interesting, but I thought it was weird that the factions were able to come to peace terms in the course of like, one single 5 minute meeting.

    "So, hey guys, I know we're all mortal enemies here, and we've been fighting for decades upon decades, but what if we put aside our differences and teamed up?"

    "Yeah sure."

    "Sounds cool."

    There's a reason no newspaper has ever printed the phrase "peace talk", singular! I know with Star Trek you gotta suspend your disbelief a lot but somehow that was a (starship) bridge too far for me. I think it would've been better if the Klingons teaming up happened off screen. Show us Klingons from different factions attacking the Federation in unison, then show the Federation saying "Oh shit, the factions have teamed up!" No need to show us the interfactional diplomatic talk(s).
    wandering wrote: »
    I liked some of the ideas behind Discovery's Klingons more than I liked how they executed them.

    For example, I liked the idea that the Klingons hated the Federation not for their military power but their 'soft' power. But I think this is something that should've been shown rather than just talked about. Show me, say, Klingon parents furious with their kids for drinking Earl Grey (hot) and doing the Vulcan salute.

    Also, the idea that the Klingons were a bunch of warring factions who decided to unite to fight the Federation is interesting, but I thought it was weird that the factions were able to come to peace terms in the course of like, one single 5 minute meeting.

    "So, hey guys, I know we're all mortal enemies here, and we've been fighting for decades upon decades, but what if we put aside our differences and teamed up?"

    "Yeah sure."

    "Sounds cool."

    There's a reason no newspaper has ever printed the phrase "peace talk", singular! I know with Star Trek you gotta suspend your disbelief a lot but somehow that was a (starship) bridge too far for me. I think it would've been better if the Klingons teaming up happened off screen. Show us Klingons from different factions attacking the Federation in unison, then show the Federation saying "Oh shit, the factions have teamed up!" No need to show us the interfactional diplomatic talk(s).

    I definitely think pretty much everything related to the Klingons was the weakest part of the show.

    steam_sig.png
  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    There is a pretty big difference between how characters view the Klingons and how they're actually portrayed.

    Because in every Trek show, it's not the honorable warrior Klingons who actually rise to power, it's the cunning Machievellian ones. In TOS, the Klingons had no problem playing dirty against the Federation, fighting proxy wars, sabotaging colonization efforts, spreading anti-Federation propaganda. In TNG, Duras was the most powerful house and they were very duplicitous. They tried to bribe K'Ehleyr, Picard and Worf to get them on their side. When bribery failed, they tried assassination. And Gowron wasn't very honorable either. But he was very good at using Klingon culture to manipulate people to get what he wanted.
    Worf, as an outsider, bought the propaganda and modeled himself after how Klingons are supposed to be, what they say they are, in the stories they tell and songs they sing about themselves. Which is why he's so different from most "real" Klingons. He's a true believer, a paragon. (I often compare him to Steve "Captain America" Rogers.)

    I don't disagree. It's just that it's really boring at this point. And, like I said, it doesn't make them feel like a real culture. Nothing is done with the idea except to make most Klingons look like hypocrites. There has to be more to these people than honor, glory, and fighting amongst themselves (honorably or not) over chunks of their own empire. And, really, how could that even work from a practical standpoint over the course of centuries? If the great houses are always at odds and fighting for supremacy (even if it's just through alliances, some blackmail, and an assassination or two), how can their society even function well enough to be a galactic power? Everything we've seen suggests that everyone in Klingon society is aligned to one great house or another, whether directly or by proxy.

  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    yeah but DS9 wrapped up the show by killing off Klingon Trump and essentially dismantling the Klingon Empire's cast and honor system, so writers should be free of some of that baggage.

    Also i'd love to see some play against type in future episodes.

    Cut to dying ensign's pov, the surgeon in chain-mail scrubs holding a double sided scalpel bellows "your body is my battle field!"

    DanHibiki on
  • SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    Worf, as an outsider, bought the propaganda and modeled himself after how Klingons are supposed to be, what they say they are, in the stories they tell and songs they sing about themselves. Which is why he's so different from most "real" Klingons. He's a true believer, a paragon. (I often compare him to Steve "Captain America" Rogers.)

    I would watch a Captain Qo'noS series.

    5gsowHm.png
  • ChanusChanus Harbinger of the Spicy Rooster Apocalypse The Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Cut to dying ensign's pov, the surgeon in chain-mail scrubs holding a double sided scalpel bellows "your body is my battle field!"

    >.>

    i have that dvd

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Cut to dying ensign's pov, the surgeon in chain-mail scrubs holding a double sided scalpel bellows "your body is my battle field!"

    Excited Klingon medical first years standing in the background wearing ponchos like they're front row center at a Gallagher show.

  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    I definitely think pretty much everything related to the Klingons was the weakest part of the show.

    that's why i always post about how disco is a bad show, how it's disappointing, how it's not star trek, etc etc.

    I get that people like it but if the main crux of the show is the klingons and all the klingon stuff is bad THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM

    steam_sig.png
    kHDRsTc.png
  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    They need to Game of Thrones the Klingons up. Each of the Houses should have their own philosophy and culture.

    They could even upend the whole Kahless thing by having Klingon historians/heretics who believe that Kahless and Molor were just opposing warlords, one wasn't better or worse than the other, and that people only worship Kahless because he won.

  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    "Worf, you are the most honorable, courageous, amazing man I know. And if even you are willing to put up with this Klingon garbage, what hope does your damn race have?"

    Not the exact speech Ezri makes, but close enough. :)

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • ChanusChanus Harbinger of the Spicy Rooster Apocalypse The Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User regular
    They need to Game of Thrones the Klingons up. Each of the Houses should have their own philosophy and culture.

    They could even upend the whole Kahless thing by having Klingon historians/heretics who believe that Kahless and Molor were just opposing warlords, one wasn't better or worse than the other, and that people only worship Kahless because he won.

    wasn't that a ds9 plotline?

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    I definitely think pretty much everything related to the Klingons was the weakest part of the show.

    that's why i always post about how disco is a bad show, how it's disappointing, how it's not star trek, etc etc.

    I get that people like it but if the main crux of the show is the klingons and all the klingon stuff is bad THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM

    There was tons of non Klingon stuff. I just feel like it dragged the show down to maybe a B average when it could have been a solid A-.

    steam_sig.png
  • RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    I remember seeing a video essay that talked about how Klingon society is based on 'external' honor (all about image and how others see you, and doing what you're expected to do based on some honor code), while Worf, being an outsider and having to figure it out for himself based on what he's seen and heard (like Commander Zoom mentioned), interprets it as 'internal' honor (about his own sense of right and wrong). It was certainly an interesting take.

    This basically sums up me in every workplace I've ever been.

  • grumblethorngrumblethorn Registered User regular
    Klingon society is based on how rad your crazy eyes are. That's why Gowron was emperor for so long.

    Edit: Also, my husband is Lakota and watching Voyager with him is... Woof. I had no idea they did so much stuff with Chakotay and his heritage and stuff and... It isn't great!

    Chancellor

  • SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    Klingon society is based on how rad your crazy eyes are. That's why Gowron was emperor for so long.

    Edit: Also, my husband is Lakota and watching Voyager with him is... Woof. I had no idea they did so much stuff with Chakotay and his heritage and stuff and... It isn't great!

    Chancellor

    For whatever reason Gowron's voice always reminded me of Krusty the Clown, and I could never take him seriously.

    5gsowHm.png
  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    Syngyne wrote: »
    Klingon society is based on how rad your crazy eyes are. That's why Gowron was emperor for so long.

    Edit: Also, my husband is Lakota and watching Voyager with him is... Woof. I had no idea they did so much stuff with Chakotay and his heritage and stuff and... It isn't great!

    Chancellor

    For whatever reason Gowron's voice always reminded me of Krusty the Clown, and I could never take him seriously.

    Experience Bij, you worm

    7qmGNt5.png
    D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
  • SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    Syngyne wrote: »
    Klingon society is based on how rad your crazy eyes are. That's why Gowron was emperor for so long.

    Edit: Also, my husband is Lakota and watching Voyager with him is... Woof. I had no idea they did so much stuff with Chakotay and his heritage and stuff and... It isn't great!

    Chancellor

    For whatever reason Gowron's voice always reminded me of Krusty the Clown, and I could never take him seriously.

    Experience Bij, you worm heuheuheuhHUEEHUEEH

    5gsowHm.png
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Syngyne wrote: »
    Klingon society is based on how rad your crazy eyes are. That's why Gowron was emperor for so long.

    Edit: Also, my husband is Lakota and watching Voyager with him is... Woof. I had no idea they did so much stuff with Chakotay and his heritage and stuff and... It isn't great!

    Chancellor

    For whatever reason Gowron's voice always reminded me of Krusty the Clown, and I could never take him seriously.

    Experience Bij, you worm

    Who is moving now?!

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    see317 wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Cut to dying ensign's pov, the surgeon in chain-mail scrubs holding a double sided scalpel bellows "your body is my battle field!"

    Excited Klingon medical first years standing in the background wearing ponchos like they're front row center at a Gallagher show.

    "I AM DR. GOWRON. I WANT YOU TO BE AT EASE IN THE KNOWLEDGE THAT I WILL LAY WASTE TO YOUR AILMENTS AS IF THEY WERE AN ARMY OF SICK AND FRIGHTENED OLD MEN. I WILL OPEN YOU UP WITH DEFT SKILL AND VANQUISH YOUR QUAILING ILLNESS. NOW RELAX AS WE BEGIN YOUR SURGERY."
    gowron2.jpg

    Ninja Snarl P on
  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    THIS ABSCESS HAS NO HONOR

  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    TIL that Worf is Klingon Captain America, and everything is so much clearer.

  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    Voyager is frequently wacky

  • hlprmnkyhlprmnky Registered User regular
    I might have to rewatch Disco now - it seemed clear to me when I watched it the first time that the different Klingon houses did have cultural differences, just not to the level of “In the House of S’krill, we resolve conflicts with sick DJ battles instead of swordplay!”

    Of course, I also think of the uh, less-than-heart-pounding pace and diction of T’Kuvma and his faction’s speech as being the Klingon version of how a stereotypical revival-tent preacher speaks American English, so it is possible that my thirst for new Trek has me watching Disco through some rose-colored glasses.

    _
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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    "Can I get a "qa'pla"?"

  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    There is SO MUCH BANGING IN THIS SHOW OMG GIVE IT A REST

    Metzger Meister on
  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    TIL that Worf is Klingon Captain America, and everything is so much clearer.

    But more in reverse. Steve knew the value of strength because he grew up weak. But even though he was a physically superior specimen, Worf was raised humbly, and learned early on that the strong must be careful around the weak, or they might get unintentionally hurt.

    He's more like Superman.

  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    There is SO MUCH BANGING IN THIS SHOW OMG GIVE IT A REST
    What else is there to do on Voyager? Talk to Neelix?

  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    There is SO MUCH BANGING IN THIS SHOW OMG GIVE IT A REST
    Now that you mentioned it, they do push the boundaries of banging in Trek.
    Everything from lizard orgies to first on screen finger banging.
    https://youtu.be/zMbI_7PHDH0

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    hlprmnky wrote: »
    I might have to rewatch Disco now - it seemed clear to me when I watched it the first time that the different Klingon houses did have cultural differences, just not to the level of “In the House of S’krill, we resolve conflicts with sick DJ battles instead of swordplay!”

    Of course, I also think of the uh, less-than-heart-pounding pace and diction of T’Kuvma and his faction’s speech as being the Klingon version of how a stereotypical revival-tent preacher speaks American English, so it is possible that my thirst for new Trek has me watching Disco through some rose-colored glasses.

    Isn't one of the disco houses matriarchal and is really into spies?

  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Man, Janeway just gives no shits. She might be the coldest Starfleet captain I've seen.

    Edit: not in her personal relationships mind you, I'm saying she is Not To Be Trifled With. Tuvix? COLD AS ICE, SON. AS I C E.

    Metzger Meister on
This discussion has been closed.