Here’s hoping we get more him and less Akiva Goldsman.
Just because Akiva Goldsman has written bad movies like A Beautiful Mind doesn't mean he hasn't also written good movies like Batman and Robin
Much like Kurtz and Orci his tv work isn't as bad as his movie work. TV also has the advantage of writers being in control, rather than being at the mercy of film directors.
Here’s hoping we get more him and less Akiva Goldsman.
Just because Akiva Goldsman has written bad movies like A Beautiful Mind doesn't mean he hasn't also written good movies like Batman and Robin
Much like Kurtz and Orci his tv work isn't as bad as his movie work. TV also has the advantage of writers being in control, rather than being at the mercy of film directors.
I should probably watch the rest of Fringe at some point since I hear it got good. But, yeah, there isn’t a single film he did writing on that I found all that particularly compelling.
Here’s hoping we get more him and less Akiva Goldsman.
Just because Akiva Goldsman has written bad movies like A Beautiful Mind doesn't mean he hasn't also written good movies like Batman and Robin
i deeply appreciate how hard you logroll for that terrible, terrible movie - we're all allowed one - but even you must admit that the enjoyable parts of it were more schumacher than goldsman
THAT SAID: if sir patrick told someone to "chill" before shooting them with a freeze ray I might be 100% in the tank for that
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited September 2018
I love the shit out of Batman and Robin, but for the same reasons I've managed to enjoy movies with titles like "Sssssssss!" that address the very important and vital issue of turning unsuspecting teenage assistants into normal snakes in order to survive the coming nuclear apocalypse, and the very real hazards that a mongoose poses to said snakes (yes, the final scene in the movie is a fight between a normal snake and a normal mongoose).
Trainwrecks are usually sad, but sometimes there's a really great one that is too horrible to not be entertaining.
What's the point of making a new series if you're going to have the same creative team as 30 years ago?
oh I don't think you need the same creative team at all but it would be nice if there was somebody involved who has a sense of continuity and also had a sense of what good star trek is
edit - remember, I'm the guy who thinks discovery is awful
Hardtarget on
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
nice to see nobody involved with the greatness that TNG got to is involved with this new product
*sigh*
Except Stewart....
who was not a writer or creator on the show?
True, he's just someone who had more experience with the show than somewhere between most and all of its writers and a stack of in-franchise directorial credits to boot.
Zibblsnrt on
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
edited September 2018
listen, I don't know if we should give the guy who directed A Fistful of Datas control of the franchise is all I'm saying!!!
Um, yeah we should. We definitely should, in fact the whole thing should be set on Cowboy world.
DanHibiki on
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
Rick Berman is a giant asshole whom nobody wants back. Michael Piller is dead. Jeri Taylor is an elderly woman. Ira Steven Behr behr-ly ever worked on TNG and mostly as a junior producer rather than a creative head. Ronald D. Moore publicly, vocally never liked writing for Star Trek and, when he got the chance to make his own sci-fi show, filled it with action and sex and not-always-well-thought-out character conflict and other stuff that gives a certain type of fan The Shakes. Joe Menosky, who wrote "Hero Worship" and "Darmok" and "Year of Hell," already writes for Discovery and has a production credit on The Orville.
So.
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
Rick Berman is a giant asshole whom nobody wants back. Michael Piller is dead. Jeri Taylor is an elderly woman. Ira Steven Behr behr-ly ever worked on TNG and mostly as a junior producer rather than a creative head. Ronald D. Moore publicly, vocally never liked writing for Star Trek and, when he got the chance to make his own sci-fi show, filled it with action and sex and not-always-well-thought-out character conflict and other stuff that gives a certain type of fan The Shakes. Joe Menosky, who wrote "Hero Worship" and "Darmok" and "Year of Hell," already writes for Discovery and has a production credit on The Orville.
So.
I don't want answers or explanations I want to be mad!
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited September 2018
Well, the series has existed for over fifty years, I'd say it's fairly okay for people to age out of a show that's been made on and off for five decades. Honestly, it's rather amazing that any quality material came out of it past the first series, considering how much it's been plagued by problematic writers and network fuckery.
I'm just glad that I can very much dislike Discovery and it's fine because there is Orville right there, doing the "updated Star Trek but clearly dedicated to the spirit of the original" thing.
Ira Behr did a lot of uncredited rewrites for TNG. He's still very passionate about DS9.
Ron Moore didn't like working for Voyager. He had no problem with DS9 or TNG.
There are DS9 writers they can get back, like René Echevarria or Robert Wolfe.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
i think everything about discovery would have been perfectly fine if it weren't written for what tv exes think is the intelligence level of a network primetime audience
the ideas were fine, the klingon redesign is fine, the visuals are beautiful, the execution of the writing is just dumb and insulting
you're not likely going to get another TNG or another DS9 or chemistry like kirk/spock/mccoy and that's fine
just don't make it treat me like i'm stupid
Allegedly a voice of reason.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
you're not likely going to get another TNG or another DS9 or chemistry like kirk/spock/mccoy and that's fine
I think we absolutely could get something like that, it's just not likely to happen anytime soon with an actual Star Trek show. It's just too high profile a franchise for media execs to not completely fuck with it, which is doubly bad because of the fact that they're the exact type of folks who have no idea what people like about something like DS9.
We'll get something like DS9 quality again, but only after the current studio owning Trek burns itself out or sells off Trek and it happens to accidentally fall into the hands of people who really care about the material and actually get to write something good for it. It won't be intentional, and it will last maybe a series or two before it gets locked into another set of asshole media execs who re-ruin it.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
you're not likely going to get another TNG or another DS9 or chemistry like kirk/spock/mccoy and that's fine
I think we absolutely could get something like that, it's just not likely to happen anytime soon with an actual Star Trek show. It's just too high profile a franchise for media execs to not completely fuck with it, which is doubly bad because of the fact that they're the exact type of folks who have no idea what people like about something like DS9.
We'll get something like DS9 quality again, but only after the current studio owning Trek burns itself out or sells off Trek and it happens to accidentally fall into the hands of people who really care about the material and actually get to write something good for it. It won't be intentional, and it will last maybe a series or two before it gets locked into another set of asshole media execs who re-ruin it.
well yeah, i mean, that's what i meant by not likely
under current conditions it is just not likely to happen
Allegedly a voice of reason.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
but that doesn't mean what you will get will has to necessarily be bad
Yet another example that if you're working on a fan project, never show it to anyone until you're done. Then it's on the internet and it's too late to stop you.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited September 2018
Stuff like that continues to mindblowingly stupid on the part of groups like CBS. Don't slap a kneejerk C and D on it, pull your collective heads out of your collective asses for five seconds and just buy it. Then it's an official product, it has the goodwill from the people that want it, and the IP is still completely protected.
Seriously, they could have a neat Trek product for total chump change, considering it's a fan project. I'm sure the guys working on it would love to get revenue from a pet project, and they'd get official sanction to keep working on it.
i think everything about discovery would have been perfectly fine if it weren't written for what tv exes think is the intelligence level of a network primetime audience
the ideas were fine, the klingon redesign is fine, the visuals are beautiful, the execution of the writing is just dumb and insulting
you're not likely going to get another TNG or another DS9 or chemistry like kirk/spock/mccoy and that's fine
just don't make it treat me like i'm stupid
It's especially baffling in the context of a franchise that only got off the ground at all because it successfully fought against execs claiming that it was "too cerebral."
I do wish/hope they'd get someone like Michael and Denise Okuda involved. Those are people who know as much about Star Trek as anyone and were responsible for quite a lot of the look and feel of TNG trek (see also Rick Sternbach. He might be getting on a bit now, I don't know).
Wish they'd been involved in Discovery as well. New writers are fine, but it would be nice to have it feel more visually coherent.
you're not likely going to get another TNG or another DS9 or chemistry like kirk/spock/mccoy and that's fine
I wouldn't rule that out completely, Discovery did excellently for its first season and Trek shows take years before getting into their prime. It's in better hands than Trek has had for decades.
Yet another example that if you're working on a fan project, never show it to anyone until you're done. Then it's on the internet and it's too late to stop you.
True, but they can launch devastating reprisals after that. They can take it off You Tube, and likely sue the creators. This gets worse if they think they need to make an example again to make people remember not to fuck with their property. The days off fans making endless Trek videos with support from the company are over, unfortunately.
I will be disappointed if the premise of the show is 'try and recreate TNG'. Because that I don't think that would work, at all. I wouldn't have been similarly disappointed if the Twin Peaks season we've just had tried for nothing more than 'remember the good old days'.
Another thing I'm excited about is that this will be the longest sustained look at an era beyond the TNG/DS9/Voyager years we've had. Trek has been seemingly afraid to look ahead and has been filling in gaps in the past or doing alternate history of stuff we've seen for the last two TV series and the last three movies.
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I wouldn't expect 78 year old Sir Patrick Stewart to be punching or shooting many things. Instead, I expect rousing speeches and evisceration via wit.
And hardcore nudity.
Here’s hoping we get more him and less Akiva Goldsman.
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
Silly cow, both of those movies are bad. :P
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
Much like Kurtz and Orci his tv work isn't as bad as his movie work. TV also has the advantage of writers being in control, rather than being at the mercy of film directors.
This is exactly why at some point he's going to stun the shit out like 3 guys with knives.
I should probably watch the rest of Fringe at some point since I hear it got good. But, yeah, there isn’t a single film he did writing on that I found all that particularly compelling.
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
i deeply appreciate how hard you logroll for that terrible, terrible movie - we're all allowed one - but even you must admit that the enjoyable parts of it were more schumacher than goldsman
THAT SAID: if sir patrick told someone to "chill" before shooting them with a freeze ray I might be 100% in the tank for that
Trainwrecks are usually sad, but sometimes there's a really great one that is too horrible to not be entertaining.
Certainly a unique solution to the oil crisis.
*sigh*
Except Stewart....
who was not a writer or creator on the show?
oh I don't think you need the same creative team at all but it would be nice if there was somebody involved who has a sense of continuity and also had a sense of what good star trek is
edit - remember, I'm the guy who thinks discovery is awful
WORKED FOR VOYAGER
True, he's just someone who had more experience with the show than somewhere between most and all of its writers and a stack of in-franchise directorial credits to boot.
So.
I don't want answers or explanations I want to be mad!
I'm just glad that I can very much dislike Discovery and it's fine because there is Orville right there, doing the "updated Star Trek but clearly dedicated to the spirit of the original" thing.
Ron Moore didn't like working for Voyager. He had no problem with DS9 or TNG.
There are DS9 writers they can get back, like René Echevarria or Robert Wolfe.
the ideas were fine, the klingon redesign is fine, the visuals are beautiful, the execution of the writing is just dumb and insulting
you're not likely going to get another TNG or another DS9 or chemistry like kirk/spock/mccoy and that's fine
just don't make it treat me like i'm stupid
I think we absolutely could get something like that, it's just not likely to happen anytime soon with an actual Star Trek show. It's just too high profile a franchise for media execs to not completely fuck with it, which is doubly bad because of the fact that they're the exact type of folks who have no idea what people like about something like DS9.
We'll get something like DS9 quality again, but only after the current studio owning Trek burns itself out or sells off Trek and it happens to accidentally fall into the hands of people who really care about the material and actually get to write something good for it. It won't be intentional, and it will last maybe a series or two before it gets locked into another set of asshole media execs who re-ruin it.
well yeah, i mean, that's what i meant by not likely
under current conditions it is just not likely to happen
I never played this but RIP
CBS will never, ever make anything that competes with that project.
Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
Seriously, they could have a neat Trek product for total chump change, considering it's a fan project. I'm sure the guys working on it would love to get revenue from a pet project, and they'd get official sanction to keep working on it.
It's especially baffling in the context of a franchise that only got off the ground at all because it successfully fought against execs claiming that it was "too cerebral."
Wish they'd been involved in Discovery as well. New writers are fine, but it would be nice to have it feel more visually coherent.
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I wouldn't rule that out completely, Discovery did excellently for its first season and Trek shows take years before getting into their prime. It's in better hands than Trek has had for decades.
True, but they can launch devastating reprisals after that. They can take it off You Tube, and likely sue the creators. This gets worse if they think they need to make an example again to make people remember not to fuck with their property. The days off fans making endless Trek videos with support from the company are over, unfortunately.
Another thing I'm excited about is that this will be the longest sustained look at an era beyond the TNG/DS9/Voyager years we've had. Trek has been seemingly afraid to look ahead and has been filling in gaps in the past or doing alternate history of stuff we've seen for the last two TV series and the last three movies.
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