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[Dragon Quest] XI-S on Xbox, Gamepass and PC soon

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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    I went through all 3 games when they hit the Switch. 2 is in a really strange spot. 1 is extremely short, shorter than you probably remember. But if you just follow the actual progression line, the game will rapidly outlevel you and you'll have no choice but to grind. 2 is much the same way, only worse. It's shorter and longer than you remember. After 5 scant hours of playing, you'll find you've uncovered 99% of the map. The other 1% is spent trying to hunt down the orbs you have to collect. And if you know exactly where to go and get them? You'll still hit that wall and be forced to grind.

    3 is probably the first one that starts to resemble the JRPG formula you're most familiar with. Little wonder since it served (and still does) as the template for them for years to come.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    I went through all 3 games when they hit the Switch. 2 is in a really strange spot. 1 is extremely short, shorter than you probably remember. But if you just follow the actual progression line, the game will rapidly outlevel you and you'll have no choice but to grind. 2 is much the same way, only worse. It's shorter and longer than you remember. After 5 scant hours of playing, you'll find you've uncovered 99% of the map. The other 1% is spent trying to hunt down the orbs you have to collect. And if you know exactly where to go and get them? You'll still hit that wall and be forced to grind.

    3 is probably the first one that starts to resemble the JRPG formula you're most familiar with. Little wonder since it served (and still does) as the template for them for years to come.

    Yeah, I beat 2 last night. I ended up doing fine in the final dungeon and then having to grind before I could kill the last boss. Luckily it seems like the devs predicted this issue (especially since going back is such a huge pain), and they put liquid metal slimes on the encounter tables for the last floors of the castle.

    It is interesting, in some ways 2 is miles ahead of 1, but in others it barely meets parity and ends up suffering in comparison due to length/volume.

    Inventory space is a good example. You have way more of it because you have 3 characters, except that the inventory space problem is actually worse because unlike 1 none of the items stack, there are way more key items, more treasure chests in dungeons, and more enemies drop items on death. The pain is multiplied by having separate limited inventories that have to be managed individually.

    There is a lot more event scripting, but the event scripting isn't robust. I ended up having to use a guide pretty early on, not because I didn't know what I needed to do, but because I didn't know why things weren't working:
    I understood that I needed to join up with the prince of the neighboring kingdom, but I made the mistake of going to the hero's spring before going to the castle where you're told to go there. Even though I hadn't spoken to the king of Cannok, the NPC at the spring told me that the prince had left for my castle. When I returned to my castle, Dad told me to go to Cannok to meet up with the prince, except the prince wasn't there (or at the inn in Leftwyne) because I hadn't spoken to the king there yet. When speaking to the king, he tells me to go to the hero's spring, even though I had already been there and been directed back to my own castle. I had to redo the whole loop to get things to work properly.

    The things that ended up being really painful were all real dumb. Collecting the crests was fine for the crests that were having you go into dungeons, but why hide one randomly out of bounds in a teleportation room? It is obvious that you need to use the sluice key, but did they need to hide the room you use it in off-screen miles above the actual city? Did they need to design the final two dungeons with so many collapsing floors that send you all the way back to the beginning, or with so many false paths that also illogically send you back to the beginning? The thing that ended up bothering me the most was how quickly and randomly the 'bypass floor damage' spell would wear off.

    I am really hoping that 3 drops a lot of that tedious bullshit.

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    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    If you play the originals you wont get out of the "tedious bullshit" until later on. Up to 4 were nes games so they were limited by the hardware. The remakes tried to modernize it a bit with leveling curves etc like they did on the advance remakes of final fantasy but the base material is aged so can only go so far.

    If you keep going be prepared to deal with nes style mechanics for 2 more iterations. It gets better in the SNES games, especially the remakes, and disappears later on. Although the series always keeps some of its mechanics even on into the newest one. While other franchises have modernized this series has never strayed from its core formula which is a big part of its charm for a lot of us.

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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    I don't mind the grinding. That part is the least tedious bit. It's the stuff that feels actively hostile that I don't appreciate. I like talking to everyone to learn about where to go next and such, just don't hide it somewhere that is hard to get to because it's been hidden well beyond the warp boundary back to the world map with no hints to even look for it there.

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    RidleySariaRidleySaria AnaheimRegistered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    Ok so I beat 2. Right at the end of the game you are given control of your character separate from the other prince and princess. You can talk to the princess of Moonbrooke, and if you do she flirts with you. Bro, we are related. That's like the whole point of the game.

    Nothin’ says lovin’....

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    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    The dungeons and objectives become much less nes rpg style later on too.

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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Well, I'm starting on DQ3. I like that you can be a girl. I didn't expect that. I also like that I can build my own party. I went with the traditional warrior priest mage setup. I assume personalities do something to stat growth? I made my own characters and just dumped all the bonus seeds into their primary stat. I figure that made the most sense.

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    homogenizedhomogenized Registered User regular
    Yeah, personalities affect stat growth, there's a few guides that show what they do and how to influence what your party members get. There's also some books you can find that change personalities, and at least one cursed item that forces a personally on the wearer.

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    FryFry Registered User regular
    All the useless/time wasting side passages and trick floors are sort of good, because they trick you into doing some of the grinding you will need to do anyway.

    But still, ergh. My memories of the games in the series that I have played (1-4, 7-8, and at least one of the SNES ones but I don't remember which) tend to revolve around grinding. I don't know that they ever got the reward loop to a place where it felt good to me. The demo for 11 felt like it might finally be better, but maybe the demo just cuts off before it gets to the obnoxious part?

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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Fry wrote: »
    All the useless/time wasting side passages and trick floors are sort of good, because they trick you into doing some of the grinding you will need to do anyway.

    But still, ergh. My memories of the games in the series that I have played (1-4, 7-8, and at least one of the SNES ones but I don't remember which) tend to revolve around grinding. I don't know that they ever got the reward loop to a place where it felt good to me. The demo for 11 felt like it might finally be better, but maybe the demo just cuts off before it gets to the obnoxious part?

    Except that you can grind a lot less once you get past those sections because the final castle doesn't have those sections and it also has liquid metal slimes.

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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    DQ11 felt like I could skip whatever monsters I felt like skipping without being overly weakened by it. Of course, there were plenty of monsters that I didn't feel like skipping, so your mileage may vary.

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    akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    Do we have a dedicated DQ Builders thread? I "finished" DQB2, but I'm getting frustrated with the last couple tablet targets. Especially rooms your residents like. It's SO HARD to get a room exactly the right size and fanciness, especially if they don't also want "cool". Why isn't there a "fancy" block for each ambiance?

    And why is breeding pets so gosh-darned hard? Dog should get happy when pet, period.

    Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
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    skeldareskeldare Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    Looks like they're doing an HD-2D remake of Dragon Quest III for home consoles, with a worldwide release. It's from the people that made Octopath Traveler.

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    skeldareskeldare Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    Oh and they also officially announced the title of Dragon Quest XII - The Flame of Fate. They're also apparently changing up the combat system.

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    RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    Also, DQX is getting an offline version with a different art style. So we may be able to play X after all!

    Renzo on
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    skeldareskeldare Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    Renzo wrote: »
    Also, DQX is getting an offline version with a different art style. So we may be able to play X after all!

    If they decide to localize it of course.

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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    I read an article that said still Japan only.

    I'm kinda really hype for dq3 hd. I think that was the one I played the hell out of on my Gameboy. But it was called dragon warrior something at the time. I googled a story synopsis and it sounded like the same game.

    I still need to get around to playing dq11 though...

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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    So Dragon Quest XII will supposedly be darker and more adult.

    I'm intensely curious how the design team interperets that.

    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So Dragon Quest XII will supposedly be darker and more adult.

    I'm intensely curious how the design team interperets that.

    And with a new combat system, to which I say BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I watched the 35th anniversary stream last night, live, and I'm not really so sure about the whole "more adult" thing. There were some serious issues with their stream. First, it seemed to be completely unscripted, and the one guy kept saying things he shouldn't say and asking questions that they couldn't answer. It felt honestly very amateurish and unprofessional. Secondly, I don't think the translation was as spot-on or accurate as it could have been. It felt rushed and unsure to me.

    My takeway from that conversation was that DQ12 might have a bit darker themes. Obviously the logo is a bit darker themed. But just because they're going a bit darker doesn't automatically translate to "adult." In my mind, I'm thinking something more like Breath of Fire in the tone and presentation. But it's also impossible to say at this point, since literally all they gave us is a logo and a title.

    They also said they aren't completely changing the battle system. Just tweaking it. It sounds like it's going to be a new take on the classic system, but not abolished completely. They're not going the Final Fantasy route of completely reinventing the wheel.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    skeldare wrote: »
    Looks like they're doing an HD-2D remake of Dragon Quest III for home consoles, with a worldwide release. It's from the people that made Octopath Traveler.

    As great as this is, there’s already a perfectly serviceable remake of 3 for switch, I really wish they would have picked 4 or 5.

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    TalithTalith 変態という名の紳士 Miami, FLRegistered User regular
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    RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    DQXI's battle system was tweaked from the usual DQ system and as a result is probably the best DQ battle system yet.

    If more tweaks means a further refined turn-based system in XII, then great.

    Renzo on
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    DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So Dragon Quest XII will supposedly be darker and more adult.

    I'm intensely curious how the design team interperets that.

    And with a new combat system, to which I say BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    Not new. He said updates to the current system.

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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So Dragon Quest XII will supposedly be darker and more adult.

    I'm intensely curious how the design team interperets that.

    And with a new combat system, to which I say BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    Not new. He said updates to the current system.

    I mean, this is Dragon Quest we're talking about. The series doesn't really do much change. I'm thinking "adult" will translate to "10% more puff-puff."

    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Does Akira Toriyama still do the character designs for the series? That's honestly the biggest draw for me. The artwork.

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    skeldareskeldare Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Does Akira Toriyama still do the character designs for the series? That's honestly the biggest draw for me. The artwork.

    Yep, he's still around

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    Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    I think the first third of 11 where…
    …the Demon King turns public opinion against the Hero…
    …was well received, and that's the kind of thing we're likely to see more of in a more "adult" Dragon Quest. Maybe make the monsters more sympathetic and the humans less so, so that the eternal conflict between them becomes more nuanced. Is this endless cycle of Heroes and Demon Kings really helpful for either side? Do the cosmic forces who orchestrate that system really have everyones's best interests at heart? The game could ask those kinds of questions.

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    DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Worldwide release has me so excited.

    DQXI was such a fantastic game.

    But man that whole lead up to the Japanese release and then just waiting for the next year+ to actually get to play is ROUGH.

    I was in Japan that July too so there was DQ stuff EVERYWHERE prepping for the launch. I wanted it so bad.

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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I've got a confession to make.

    I've never completed any DQ game. Not a one.

    I own the entire mainline series, 1-11, except for DQX since it has never been westernized. (Also, side note, DQX Offline is totally not okay as a potential consolation prize. Give me DQX Online, dammit!)

    Additionally, I own DQ Builders 1 and 2, DQ Heroes 1 and 2...

    And I've never finished a one of them. I absolutely adore the series. The artwork, the humor, the characters, the enemy designs, the exploration, the charming worlds, the vibrant colors, the music, everything. I love everything. DQ is easily one of my most favorite series ever. But like. Holy crap have I got a terrible completion rate. 0% is not even a completion rate. 0% is absolute failure.

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    DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I've got a confession to make.

    I've never completed any DQ game. Not a one.

    I own the entire mainline series, 1-11, except for DQX since it has never been westernized. (Also, side note, DQX Offline is totally not okay as a potential consolation prize. Give me DQX Online, dammit!)

    Additionally, I own DQ Builders 1 and 2, DQ Heroes 1 and 2...

    And I've never finished a one of them. I absolutely adore the series. The artwork, the humor, the characters, the enemy designs, the exploration, the charming worlds, the vibrant colors, the music, everything. I love everything. DQ is easily one of my most favorite series ever. But like. Holy crap have I got a terrible completion rate. 0% is not even a completion rate. 0% is absolute failure.

    Are you the kinda person who does this with a lot of games?

    I have some friends who rarely finish any games the start. Even the games they say are their favorites they never actually finish haha. I'm like the complete opposite. I only ever move on to my next game after I finish what I'm playing unless I actually dislike it. Never do I drop games I enjoy.

    Or is this a rarity for you? If so any idea what it is that makes you stop every time?

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    KupiKupi Registered User regular
    For better or for worse (I personally appreciate it), the Dragon Quest games are long. Dragon Quest XI is on the relatively speedy end with a lot of ability to avoid superfluous fights, and I still clocked about 65 hours on my first playthrough where I didn't bother to fill in all the checkboxes. For the most part I think more people should put the effort in to finish the games they buy, but if someone told me they'd never finished any Dragon Quest game, I'd at least be a little more understanding than usual.

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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    RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    I think I hit 115 hours in DQXI.

    If you want to play a more manageable DQ game, maybe go for something between 3 and 6. You're looking at 30-40 hours there.

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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I've got a confession to make.

    I've never completed any DQ game. Not a one.

    I own the entire mainline series, 1-11, except for DQX since it has never been westernized. (Also, side note, DQX Offline is totally not okay as a potential consolation prize. Give me DQX Online, dammit!)

    Additionally, I own DQ Builders 1 and 2, DQ Heroes 1 and 2...

    And I've never finished a one of them. I absolutely adore the series. The artwork, the humor, the characters, the enemy designs, the exploration, the charming worlds, the vibrant colors, the music, everything. I love everything. DQ is easily one of my most favorite series ever. But like. Holy crap have I got a terrible completion rate. 0% is not even a completion rate. 0% is absolute failure.

    Are you the kinda person who does this with a lot of games?

    I have some friends who rarely finish any games the start. Even the games they say are their favorites they never actually finish haha. I'm like the complete opposite. I only ever move on to my next game after I finish what I'm playing unless I actually dislike it. Never do I drop games I enjoy.

    Or is this a rarity for you? If so any idea what it is that makes you stop every time?

    I finish plenty of games, including long RPGs. I don't know why I've never finished a DQ game. That's just the way it has turned out.

    In fact... when I got DQ11, I made a commitment that that game would be the very first DQ game I actually finish. I failed at that commitment.

    I stopped playing when
    I became a fish.

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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So Dragon Quest XII will supposedly be darker and more adult.

    I'm intensely curious how the design team interperets that.

    And with a new combat system, to which I say BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    Not new. He said updates to the current system.

    I mean, this is Dragon Quest we're talking about. The series doesn't really do much change. I'm thinking "adult" will translate to "10% more puff-puff."

    This is a series that took them to the 8th game, released on the PS2 in 2004, before they added the innovative change of... an equipment menu. And even then that was only an addition for the NA release. Like good gravy that was something RPG's figured out in the damn SNES generation for pete's sake.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    Renzo wrote: »
    I think I hit 115 hours in DQXI.

    If you want to play a more manageable DQ game, maybe go for something between 3 and 6. You're looking at 30-40 hours there.

    I would even exclude 6, if you want a shorter game. 4 and 5 are in the sweet spot between having a real story (which 3 is a good game but very old school RPG) and not taking a year to play through.

    6 is not a bad game either but it’s a lot longer than 5 and meanders a lot in the middle.

    I guess a good way to put it is DQ 4 and 5 are really good 30 hour games. DQ6 is also a good 30 hour game but unfortunately takes about 50 hours to finish.

    4 and 5 are among my favorite games of all time, 6 is good if you like 4 and 5 and want more of the same.

    Jealous Deva on
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    Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    Don't ever feel like you can't go back and finish an abandoned game just because you haven't played it for literally years.

    You'll be surprised how much you remember once you start playing again. Getting back into the swing of things is always easier than you think.

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    KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    So Dragon Quest XII will supposedly be darker and more adult.

    I'm intensely curious how the design team interperets that.

    And with a new combat system, to which I say BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    Not new. He said updates to the current system.

    I mean, this is Dragon Quest we're talking about. The series doesn't really do much change. I'm thinking "adult" will translate to "10% more puff-puff."

    Fun fact -- Dragon Quest 9 was going to be an Action RPG until 2ch lead a digital riot and forced them to change their minds. The prototype for what would have been DQ9 became, from what I understand, the quirky L5 RPG "Fantasy Life." (Which totally needs a Switch remake, actually.)

    So the idea that DQ might make the absolutely unforgivable sin of abandoning turn based for ARPG slop isn't as impossible as we'd like to think. They almost did it once already.

    I'm hoping it's not going to be something incredibly bad like "Lets just reuse the DQX battle engine" (bad) or "Lets just use the FF7R battle engine" (infinitely worse) or anything of the like. Something like FF6 or FFX-2 style ATB would be acceptable, I guess. They already destroyed one perfectly good 30 year old RPG franchise by making it ARPG trash, they don't need to destroy their other flagship. One worry is that he said it would still be a "command system" game which is not the same as "turn based." It reeks of carefully chosen wording.

    All told, with the "lets make it 'for adults'" comment and the so-edgy-it-can-cut-grass logo reveal, I'm immensely worried Horii was sold on the idea of changing it to chase after the Western market. Which is the exact opposite of what most DQ fans want. I for one don't want "a westernized DQ." A "westernized DQ" would be a complete trainwreck. I want DQ games because they're DQ games, puff puffs and all.

    If I had to guess as to what the 'for adults' thing, there are a few threads I could see coming from the logo reveal trailer. The subtitle -- Flames of Fate in the US because Alliteration is a ~thing~ the US team thinks is cute, "The Chosen Flame of Destiny" in Japan. The DQ logo being cracked and beat up, and the wrong color. (DQ game logos alternate between blue and red with even and odd games. DQ12's should be red. Some have speculated this is Horii announcing this is a clean break with older DQ games, or somesuch.) The Roman Numeral XII being XI then cut by a slash to turn it into XII -- a sequel to 11, perhaps? The narrator stating "For what purpose do people live" in the middle of it. Horii mentioning that it would be about choices.

    I could see it being something post-apoc, in a fantasy sort of way. I could picture there being some form of time mechanic, where you literally can't save everyone, because you just can't be in two places at the same time. Or maybe instead of playing as the noblebright hero, you play as someone else, I won't say the villain, but maybe someone who is opposed to the hero, or has to deal with what the hero leaves behind in his wake.


    Random realization: Oh god, Dragon Quest 12 has Chuunibyou Syndrome.

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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    FF X-2 would be a fantastic combat system to pull from. it was smooth while still being command based and you didn't have to fight the camera like in EVERY fucking arpg. Also i liked Fantasy Life so wouldnt be too upset if they pulled some stuff from that either. If they somehow slammed some of the gameboy DQM (like tara and cobi's journey) stuff into it as well it would be great. I didnt really like any of the DQM after those.

    Playing a villain could be fun. I imagine if they went that route it would be something more like you grew up with the villains but then realized theyre a bunch of dicks and started fighting against them. So they can market it that youre a villain but *gasp* youre still the hero in a DQ game.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    There's a lot of ways to play with the protagonist dynamics that way. Can go straight into anti-hero routes and such too. Someone who starts out with less noble motives.

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