Documents found showing illegal coordination between Trump and the NRA
No the documents show they hired two completely separate firms who just happen to be owned by the same company. (though one of the firms seems to be just the owning company itself.)
It is obvious illegal coordination and I predict nothing will be done about it. The law against it has always been a joke. It is trivial to come up with something that gives you plausible deniability, and there is no will to actually combat this.
This is not accurate. There were employees of the parent company working on ads for both campaigns and ad buys for both campaigns were often approved by the same person. There is considerable circumstantial evidence of coordination but it's within that firm not the campaigns themselves.
If Butina has flipped, it is because the Russian government told her to. The usual thing with spies is that they cool their heels in prison for a few years and then we do a spy exchange. If she isn't patient enough for that, she can expect to "accidentally" fall out of a window when she gets back home - with the one exception that she has been told to do so.
Either that or she has defected and asylum is part of her deal. That could work too.
It's possible that Russia has decided to start tossing mueller bones so that he can keep the investigation going due to it creating turmoil in the west.
Because again: there's no losing at this point for putin, it's just a matter of how much does he win.
Nah. Trump being kicked to the curb and the next President reaffirming NATO and strengthening sanctions and such is not at all in Putin's favour. In general the Russian plan here has a ton of downsides for them long-term.
Depends on how much infighting America does, in the wake of such an issue, and how much people feel the new Preident is legitimate or not.
There's simply no way Trump goes quietly. And a good quarter of the electorate are going to go batshit.
There's not going to be a unifying leader in the wake of the fallout, and what we've seen with Michigan and Wisconsin, Republicans are going to disrupt the fuck out of things. It'll be terms, if not decades, before the US get back to "normal".
So what? The GOP establishment is AOK with sanctions on Russia and a Democratic president would have wide latitude to fuck with them and strengthen US alliances. The only people really beating the drum for Russia in the US are Trump and a couple of other Russia assets in the government. The GOP base changed it's view on Russia the same way they (and everyone else) did on the economy and it will just as easily slide back without Trump propping it up.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
If Butina has flipped, it is because the Russian government told her to. The usual thing with spies is that they cool their heels in prison for a few years and then we do a spy exchange. If she isn't patient enough for that, she can expect to "accidentally" fall out of a window when she gets back home - with the one exception that she has been told to do so.
Either that or she has defected and asylum is part of her deal. That could work too.
Yeah, this just reads as a continuation of the "how much dissension can we sow" theme. Not that I'm not excited to watch the NRA burn to the ground.
If the NRA can continue to maintain support after appointing a man who is techncally guilty of treason to lead them and multiple mass shootings per year then I doubt that ties to the russian government would put a dent in them.
If Butina has flipped, it is because the Russian government told her to. The usual thing with spies is that they cool their heels in prison for a few years and then we do a spy exchange. If she isn't patient enough for that, she can expect to "accidentally" fall out of a window when she gets back home - with the one exception that she has been told to do so.
Either that or she has defected and asylum is part of her deal. That could work too.
Yeah, this just reads as a continuation of the "how much dissension can we sow" theme. Not that I'm not excited to watch the NRA burn to the ground.
If the NRA can continue to maintain support after appointing a man who is techncally guilty of treason to lead them and multiple mass shootings per year then I doubt that ties to the russian government would put a dent in them.
Hasn't the NRA lost a shitton of support over the last two years? Like those mass shootings are ultimately taking a toll on their membership (i.e. their bottom line)
If Butina has flipped, it is because the Russian government told her to. The usual thing with spies is that they cool their heels in prison for a few years and then we do a spy exchange. If she isn't patient enough for that, she can expect to "accidentally" fall out of a window when she gets back home - with the one exception that she has been told to do so.
Either that or she has defected and asylum is part of her deal. That could work too.
Yeah, this just reads as a continuation of the "how much dissension can we sow" theme. Not that I'm not excited to watch the NRA burn to the ground.
If the NRA can continue to maintain support after appointing a man who is techncally guilty of treason to lead them and multiple mass shootings per year then I doubt that ties to the russian government would put a dent in them.
Hasn't the NRA lost a shitton of support over the last two years? Like those mass shootings are ultimately taking a toll on their membership (i.e. their bottom line)
It was just August this year that having their illegal insurance sales taken away might bankrupt them.
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
If Butina has flipped, it is because the Russian government told her to. The usual thing with spies is that they cool their heels in prison for a few years and then we do a spy exchange. If she isn't patient enough for that, she can expect to "accidentally" fall out of a window when she gets back home - with the one exception that she has been told to do so.
Either that or she has defected and asylum is part of her deal. That could work too.
Yeah, this just reads as a continuation of the "how much dissension can we sow" theme. Not that I'm not excited to watch the NRA burn to the ground.
If the NRA can continue to maintain support after appointing a man who is techncally guilty of treason to lead them and multiple mass shootings per year then I doubt that ties to the russian government would put a dent in them.
Hasn't the NRA lost a shitton of support over the last two years? Like those mass shootings are ultimately taking a toll on their membership (i.e. their bottom line)
And with damage to their bottom line, forcing them to burn money to defend themselves from lawsuits and the like would help at least prune their influence in American politics. Maybe we'd be able to go back to the original interpretation of the second amendment.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Kyle Griffin is a producer at MSNBC's The Last Word
However, this is an important quote in the piece.
For now, Republicans on Capitol Hill are still inclined to stand by Trump and give the president the benefit of the doubt. But one pro-Trump senator said privately that a breaking point would be if Mueller documents conspiracy with Russians.
“Then they’ve lost me,” said the senator, noting that several Republican lawmakers have been willing to publicly break with Trump when they believe it is in their interests — as many did over Saudi Arabian Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman’s role in the brutal killing of dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi.
If this opinion is large enough in the GOP congress it's Nixon time once Mueller unveils his report.
Please dear merciful God I know I have not been a good man but I go down on my knees and humbly beseech thee, O God, to grant me the sight of Trump actually fucking crying like a baby as Mitch McConnell literally metaphorically stabs him on the Senate stairs testifies against him to the Senate impeachment committee.
The NRA membership is inflated by things like people buying lifetime memberships for their kids at birth. It’s seen as a great gift for baby boys in some ... areas.
(Like the fact the NRA never thought to wonder why an attractive redhead from a country with no gun rights legislation was so passionately involved in gun rights legislation.)
For the record, Russia has pretty strict gun legislation and she founded an organization that lobbied for loosening restrictions. Essentially a Russian NRA.
Gun rights and ownership are pretty popular among the western right wing. And the NRA is probably seen as THE organization to learn from. (On account of them being super effective.)
(Like the fact the NRA never thought to wonder why an attractive redhead from a country with no gun rights legislation was so passionately involved in gun rights legislation.)
For the record, Russia has pretty strict gun legislation and she founded an organization that lobbied for loosening restrictions. Essentially a Russian NRA.
Gun rights and ownership are pretty popular among the western right wing. And the NRA is probably seen as THE organization to learn from. (On account of them being super effective.)
Wasn't the whole 'guns for Russians' thing just a front to gain a foothold for Russians with right-wing gun activists? Like there's zero chance of Russians getting a right to bear arms in Putin's Russia and Butina is clearly, obviously, and possibly admittedly an agent for Putin's government.
I'm kind of impressed that someone who's job it is to pass laws is dismissing the violation of laws as "you can find something to charge a person with if you really want to".
Because no, you really shouldn't be able to because most citizens should abide by the law. It's why you pass them in the first place.
So I guess that’s Hatch retroactively expressing support for Bill Clinton. Victim of a trumped-up charge, good economy.
Or is there something *different* about that situation?
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Orrin Hatch: "You can make anything a crime if it breaks the law." Yes you stupid fuck, that is exactly how law and order works. Hatch is retiring though, right? So he can say whatever the fuck he wants without any real consequence.
Orrin Hatch: "You can make anything a crime if it breaks the law." Yes you stupid fuck, that is exactly how law and order works. Hatch is retiring though, right? So he can say whatever the fuck he wants without any real consequence.
There was a time when that meant for a scant two months, republicans remembered where they left their spines.
More and more it seems like "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters" will go down in history as the only true statement Trump ever made.
The problem isn’t just elected Republicans, it’s Republican voters. In fact I would say they’re the bigger problem. If they weren’t so willing to let criminals get away with crimes just because they’re on their side, we’d see a total shift in behavior from the GOP, maybe even supporting the Mueller investigation and any consequences that arise from it.
But now the ultra-partisan cat is out of the bag and they’re all ride or die.
Do billionaires ever get arrested? More likely he’s engaged in legal battles (which he doesn’t need to turn up in court for, his lawyers handle it) until his natural end at 93.
Trump getting arrested/frogmarched is a fantasy. I would love to see it happen, but the far more likely outcome of all this is that however Trump leaves office, the next person blanket pardons him and encourages everybody to move on in a spirit of unity.
Butina squealing could be pretty rich. If I remember correctly, the conjecture was that a bajillion republican congressfolk were getting re-election money through the NRA. Money that likely came from Russia, if i remember Wyden's letters accurately. And she would be the connection between the russian government and the NRA.
As in, this is part of why McConnell blocked Obama from doing anything. Because too many other republicans were already tied to this.
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JuliusCaptain of Serenityon my shipRegistered Userregular
edited December 2018
edit: didnt see post.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
ABC apparently has the details of the plea agreement which "includes cooperation."
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
On Morning Joe this morning they spent a good amount of time talking about the Mueller filings from Friday and the general direction / change in the wind on the whole case against Trump. They're pretty much certain that he's screwed, even bringing up things people here like to talk about like "well the DOJ has a policy to not indict" and "what if the SCOTUS has to decide?" They think in either case, they will go against Trump.
Admittedly this is mostly cathartic to listen to. The only piece of info in it that was new to me was that Cohen had disclosed the offers for help from Russia started in 2015.
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She was in the same jail as Manafort! What a wild ride this is.
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This is not accurate. There were employees of the parent company working on ads for both campaigns and ad buys for both campaigns were often approved by the same person. There is considerable circumstantial evidence of coordination but it's within that firm not the campaigns themselves.
A lot of these crimes all occurred within the same jurisdiction. Partly because a lot of these are the same kinds of crimes.
I smell a sitcom!
So what? The GOP establishment is AOK with sanctions on Russia and a Democratic president would have wide latitude to fuck with them and strengthen US alliances. The only people really beating the drum for Russia in the US are Trump and a couple of other Russia assets in the government. The GOP base changed it's view on Russia the same way they (and everyone else) did on the economy and it will just as easily slide back without Trump propping it up.
He’s a fat-cat Republican. She’s a Russian spy. Together they solve commit crimes!
If the NRA can continue to maintain support after appointing a man who is techncally guilty of treason to lead them and multiple mass shootings per year then I doubt that ties to the russian government would put a dent in them.
Hasn't the NRA lost a shitton of support over the last two years? Like those mass shootings are ultimately taking a toll on their membership (i.e. their bottom line)
It was just August this year that having their illegal insurance sales taken away might bankrupt them.
And with damage to their bottom line, forcing them to burn money to defend themselves from lawsuits and the like would help at least prune their influence in American politics. Maybe we'd be able to go back to the original interpretation of the second amendment.
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Please dear merciful God I know I have not been a good man but I go down on my knees and humbly beseech thee, O God, to grant me the sight of Trump actually fucking crying like a baby as Mitch McConnell literally metaphorically stabs him on the Senate stairs testifies against him to the Senate impeachment committee.
Et tu, Mitch, et tu
Hear me, O God.
Don't mock my smock or I'll clean your clock
For the record, Russia has pretty strict gun legislation and she founded an organization that lobbied for loosening restrictions. Essentially a Russian NRA.
Gun rights and ownership are pretty popular among the western right wing. And the NRA is probably seen as THE organization to learn from. (On account of them being super effective.)
CNN reporter:
Principled Republican continues to be an oxymoron.
Wasn't the whole 'guns for Russians' thing just a front to gain a foothold for Russians with right-wing gun activists? Like there's zero chance of Russians getting a right to bear arms in Putin's Russia and Butina is clearly, obviously, and possibly admittedly an agent for Putin's government.
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There's a pretty awesome 3rd tweet too
All the crime-ing from before you get elected don't count.
More like 'all the crime-ing you do or have ever done is irrelevant so long as the lobbyists filling my pockets are happy with stock dividends'.
Because no, you really shouldn't be able to because most citizens should abide by the law. It's why you pass them in the first place.
Isn't the economy (much like reasonable doubt for the president) kind of sputtering out?
Not if you need to tell people that it's great so they ignore the facts!
Or is there something *different* about that situation?
There was a time when that meant for a scant two months, republicans remembered where they left their spines.
Difference? Hmm... I wish I could Divine the Distinction between these inDistinguishable inciDents.
But now the ultra-partisan cat is out of the bag and they’re all ride or die.
Zoe is a courts and justice reporter with Buzzfeed News.
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As in, this is part of why McConnell blocked Obama from doing anything. Because too many other republicans were already tied to this.
The tweet is from a Buzzfeed reporter.
Admittedly this is mostly cathartic to listen to. The only piece of info in it that was new to me was that Cohen had disclosed the offers for help from Russia started in 2015.