We may not know (ever/for a while) but Flynn was caught up in some Bond-villain shit with the “remake the Middle East into a nuclear energy playland” scheme, not to mention the Gulen kidnapping plot.
Dude’s brain broke or someone got some amazing kompromat on him for that turn to happen.
Btw we may extradite Gulen anyway to get Erdogan to stop embarrassing Trump over MBS’s hit on Kashoggi.
So it’s very gratifying to me that the judge would bring up treason.
"Maybe think about if you really want to be sentenced today, or after you've literally done every fucking thing you can to cooperate so you can get every bit of leniency you can afford."
Andrew Prokop of Vox: Court is in recess, because Judge Sullivan has asked Flynn to consider whether he still wants to be sentenced today, or whether he wants to wait until his cooperation is complete in hopes of getting more credit.
A lot of downplaying this investigation is being thrown out so many windows this morning.
If your judge asks if you could have been charged with treason and the prosecutor declines to answer that question, you are probably not going to have a great time.
Yes, there’s a fair bit of speculation that the judge is probably going to hit Flynn with the full six months over these shenanigans, but it’s pure speculation.
Also if you’re wondering what the Republican spin is, they’re encapsulated pretty much perfect by one Byron York: Chief Political Correspondent for the Washington Examiner, Fox News contributor, and author of “The Vast Left Wing Conspiracy”
For “together with all we know”, read “if you look at it in the context of the stuff we made up” and you pretty much have it.
As far as I can tell most right wing pundits with a blue check mark are going with that spin. The average right wing twitter user seems to be split between “this proves Flynn didn’t lie!” “This proves the FBI lied!” or “OMG THE FBI FAKED THIS!”
I don't even understand the argument being made in this tweet.
He’s trying to claim the 302 is proof that Flynn’s interview was treated as honest before Mueller came along and treated as lying after he came along.
That reminds me, I forgot the other surprise.
Surprise surprise! At no point in the 302 do the FBI assert that they believe Flynn is telling the truth. For the same reason they don’t assert they believe he was lying. The 302 is a factual retelling of Flynn’s statements, several of which were later proven to be lies.
So you can throw out that whole “the FBI agents who interviewed Flynn believed him” argument, if you hadn’t already.
This is also utterly irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the agents thought he was telling the truth at any point. All that matters is an investigation concluded he was lying.
If your judge asks if you could have been charged with treason and the prosecutor declines to answer that question, you are probably not going to have a great time.
That the FBI agents didn't think he was lying shows they weren't looking to entrap him by Trump's bizarre definition of entrapment! If they wanted to entrap him, they would have known he was lying at the time.
If your judge asks if you could have been charged with treason and the prosecutor declines to answer that question, you are probably not going to have a great time.
Kyle Griffin of MSNBC: Andrea Mitchell notes on @MSNBC: Michael Flynn's plea agreement with the Special Counsel's Office said that he waived his right to appeal the sentence in this case.
Kyle Griffin of MSNBC: Andrea Mitchell notes on @MSNBC: Michael Flynn's plea agreement with the Special Counsel's Office said that he waived his right to appeal the sentence in this case.
Whatever he gets. He gets.
Waiving your right to appeal in a plea deal is generally a bad practice on the government’s behalf. That may not apply here—Flynn has at least had the time and counsel to make that an informed decision—but generally speaking the average citizen can be screwed for life by being pressured into a “no take backs” deal.
For example, there was a case where the defendant was given half an hour, and no opportunity to consult with his family, to choose between a death penalty sentence and a life w/o parole sentence + waiving his appeals, in a case that had a lot of appealsworthy issues.
This is one of those “it’s a shame Manafort has to wear prison clothes” things where I’m not saying Flynn should be the first person to get sympathy over this; but it is a real issue in criminal justice reform that people should be aware of.
Kyle Griffin of MSNBC: Andrea Mitchell notes on @MSNBC: Michael Flynn's plea agreement with the Special Counsel's Office said that he waived his right to appeal the sentence in this case.
Whatever he gets. He gets.
Waiving your right to appeal in a plea deal is generally a bad practice on the government’s behalf. That may not apply here—Flynn has at least had the time and counsel to make that an informed decision—but generally speaking the average citizen can be screwed for life by being pressured into a “no take backs” deal.
For example, there was a case where the defendant was given half an hour, and no opportunity to consult with his family, to choose between a death penalty sentence and a life w/o parole sentence + waiving his appeals, in a case that had a lot of appealsworthy issues.
This is one of those “it’s a shame Manafort has to wear prison clothes” things where I’m not saying Flynn should be the first person to get sympathy over this; but it is a real issue in criminal justice reform that people should be aware of.
I think this is a subjective thing and not like universal. Your example is bad, but someone like Flynn who had every advantage and then some was not pressured into this deal. In this case not being able to appeal the plea seems reasonable to me, dude is admitting what he did and getting a deal out of it from the government.
If anything Flynn should have to do time for what he did especially if he could be tried for fucking Treason which is a literal death penalty offense.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
If your judge asks if you could have been charged with treason and the prosecutor declines to answer that question, you are probably not going to have a great time.
That tells me
1) the answer is YES
2) Mueller did decline to do so as part of the deal
The big (and only really) hurdle is if Russia counts as an enemy under the Constitutional statute. The precedent suggests it has to be someone we are actually at war with
The Judge is back on the bench and appears to have remembered that his comments will lead to him being on the business end of a Trump rant, as well as the ire of every Fox News pundit ever.
Kyle Griffin of MSNBC: Andrea Mitchell notes on @MSNBC: Michael Flynn's plea agreement with the Special Counsel's Office said that he waived his right to appeal the sentence in this case.
Whatever he gets. He gets.
Waiving your right to appeal in a plea deal is generally a bad practice on the government’s behalf. That may not apply here—Flynn has at least had the time and counsel to make that an informed decision—but generally speaking the average citizen can be screwed for life by being pressured into a “no take backs” deal.
For example, there was a case where the defendant was given half an hour, and no opportunity to consult with his family, to choose between a death penalty sentence and a life w/o parole sentence + waiving his appeals, in a case that had a lot of appealsworthy issues.
This is one of those “it’s a shame Manafort has to wear prison clothes” things where I’m not saying Flynn should be the first person to get sympathy over this; but it is a real issue in criminal justice reform that people should be aware of.
I think this is a subjective thing and not like universal. Your example is bad, but someone like Flynn who had every advantage and then some was not pressured into this deal. In this case not being able to appeal the plea seems reasonable to me, dude is admitting what he did and getting a deal out of it from the government.
If anything Flynn should have to do time for what he did especially if he could be tried for fucking Treason which is a literal death penalty offense.
I’m not getting too worked up about it in Flynn’s case, but the issue bothers me in general. The whole point of the appeals process is to double check the results of the judicial process; if there are ultimately no issues, the government wastes some time and money working against the appeal, but at least we checked. If there are any issues, and the government uses its considerable leverage to get the defendant to waive appeals, then the system doesn’t get that check and it’s a problem.
The reason to avoid that here would really be to avoid the appearance of injustice. “Flynn was convicted and sentenced but if you’ll watch my Youtube video you’ll see he was unfairly pressured not to appeal and he would have won those appeals because x y and z” versus “Flynn was convicted and sentenced and although he appealed, every judge up to and including SCOTUS ruled against him.”
The Judge is back on the bench and appears to have remembered that his comments will lead to him being on the business end of a Trump rant, as well as the ire of every Fox News pundit ever.
Kyle Griffin of MSNBC: Andrea Mitchell notes on @MSNBC: Michael Flynn's plea agreement with the Special Counsel's Office said that he waived his right to appeal the sentence in this case.
Whatever he gets. He gets.
Waiving your right to appeal in a plea deal is generally a bad practice on the government’s behalf. That may not apply here—Flynn has at least had the time and counsel to make that an informed decision—but generally speaking the average citizen can be screwed for life by being pressured into a “no take backs” deal.
For example, there was a case where the defendant was given half an hour, and no opportunity to consult with his family, to choose between a death penalty sentence and a life w/o parole sentence + waiving his appeals, in a case that had a lot of appealsworthy issues.
This is one of those “it’s a shame Manafort has to wear prison clothes” things where I’m not saying Flynn should be the first person to get sympathy over this; but it is a real issue in criminal justice reform that people should be aware of.
I think this is a subjective thing and not like universal. Your example is bad, but someone like Flynn who had every advantage and then some was not pressured into this deal. In this case not being able to appeal the plea seems reasonable to me, dude is admitting what he did and getting a deal out of it from the government.
If anything Flynn should have to do time for what he did especially if he could be tried for fucking Treason which is a literal death penalty offense.
I’m not getting too worked up about it in Flynn’s case, but the issue bothers me in general. The whole point of the appeals process is to double check the results of the judicial process; if there are ultimately no issues, the government wastes some time and money working against the appeal, but at least we checked. If there are any issues, and the government uses its considerable leverage to get the defendant to waive appeals, then the system doesn’t get that check and it’s a problem.
The reason to avoid that here would really be to avoid the appearance of injustice. “Flynn was convicted and sentenced but if you’ll watch my Youtube video you’ll see he was unfairly pressured not to appeal and he would have won those appeals because x y and z” versus “Flynn was convicted and sentenced and although he appealed, every judge up to and including SCOTUS ruled against him.”
The point of "no appealing" is that Flynn is that Flynn doing this time is part of the deal. Appeals are him trying to weasel out of the deal. They are not allowing him to do that.
I think what happened is flynn's legal team just pooped themselves and realize how badly they goofed up. Now flynn is in a position where he is going to have to find something more to cooperate with because clearly what is there already does not seem enough to the judge to avoid prison time.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Damn I was hoping to see the shit go down today. I take it we're waiting on the followup date for the actual sentencing then.
I think what happened is flynn's legal team just pooped themselves and realize how badly they goofed up. Now flynn is in a position where he is going to have to find something more to cooperate with because clearly what is there already does not seem enough to the judge to avoid prison time.
And yes this is what I feel as well. Like the deal where he was going to get 0 jail time felt super generous knowing what we know he did and absent Trump being removed from office specifically Flynn should do actual time.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
The Judge is back on the bench and appears to have remembered that his comments will lead to him being on the business end of a Trump rant, as well as the ire of every Fox News pundit ever.
Eric covers the Justice Department for the Associated Press
Sounds like the judge saw the information and then had a natural human reaction before going to calm down and realising maybe he should try to sound more impartial.
The Judge is back on the bench and appears to have remembered that his comments will lead to him being on the business end of a Trump rant, as well as the ire of every Fox News pundit ever.
Eric covers the Justice Department for the Associated Press
Sounds like the judge saw the information and then had a natural human reaction before going to calm down and realising maybe he should try to sound more impartial.
ummm
flynn was a foreign agent while in the white house
that's one of the things he was brought down for!
but yes, not guilty of the textbook def. of treason
For more than a year, Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s office has questioned witnesses broadly about their interactions with well-connected Russians. But three sources familiar with Mueller’s probe told The Daily Beast that his team is now zeroing in on Trumpworld figures who may have attempted to shape the administration's foreign policy by offering to ease U.S. sanctions on Russia.
The Special Counsel’s Office is preparing court filings that are expected to detail Trump associates’ conversations about sanctions relief—and spell out how those offers and counter-proposals were characterized to top figures on the campaign and in the administration, those same sources said.
And Flynn wasn’t the only figure talking sanctions during that transition period, three sources with knowledge of the probe said. Several individuals in Trump’s inner circle were developing their own plans to put pressure on other parts of the government to roll back the sanctions, which have cost the Russian economy more than $100 billion, according to Kremlin estimates.
Around the same time, Trump reportedly asked staffers in the State Department to come up with a plan to roll back sanctions. But the department’s transition team was disorganized and understaffed, according to one person on the team. The request never made its way to people tasked with advising the White House on sanctions, according to two former national-security officials.
“The Russians were definitely looking to ease sanctions, or the relaxation of sanctions,” said one former Treasury official. “There was clearly a person they supported in the election and Trump clearly had a favorable view of Russia. But the transition was a mess and it took more time to get their feet under them. By the time they got their stuff together, Congress was increasing sanctions.”
So what more can Flynn possibly offer? Testifying in a trial? Are they going to delay Flynn's sentencing until after all relevant trials against Trump are concluded, even if that process takes years?
Is there any limit on how long the sentencing can be delayed? Is Flynn being held without bail in the meantime?
This is pretty incredible. "Do you want to find out how long you're going to be in prison today, or do you want to think reeeeeeally hard about what else you might know?"
For more than a year, Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s office has questioned witnesses broadly about their interactions with well-connected Russians. But three sources familiar with Mueller’s probe told The Daily Beast that his team is now zeroing in on Trumpworld figures who may have attempted to shape the administration's foreign policy by offering to ease U.S. sanctions on Russia.
The Special Counsel’s Office is preparing court filings that are expected to detail Trump associates’ conversations about sanctions relief—and spell out how those offers and counter-proposals were characterized to top figures on the campaign and in the administration, those same sources said.
And Flynn wasn’t the only figure talking sanctions during that transition period, three sources with knowledge of the probe said. Several individuals in Trump’s inner circle were developing their own plans to put pressure on other parts of the government to roll back the sanctions, which have cost the Russian economy more than $100 billion, according to Kremlin estimates.
Around the same time, Trump reportedly asked staffers in the State Department to come up with a plan to roll back sanctions. But the department’s transition team was disorganized and understaffed, according to one person on the team. The request never made its way to people tasked with advising the White House on sanctions, according to two former national-security officials.
“The Russians were definitely looking to ease sanctions, or the relaxation of sanctions,” said one former Treasury official. “There was clearly a person they supported in the election and Trump clearly had a favorable view of Russia. But the transition was a mess and it took more time to get their feet under them. By the time they got their stuff together, Congress was increasing sanctions.”
How were they so incompetent at everything?
Their recruitment drives were almost entirely on personal connections and charm and seldom about having the required skills to pursue their aims.
It’s worth remembering, by the way, that a LOT of the paperwork regarding Flynn’s trial is still under seal. There’s a LOT of stuff the judge has seen that we haven’t.
Posts
CNN account:
Wait- shit!
Dude’s brain broke or someone got some amazing kompromat on him for that turn to happen.
Btw we may extradite Gulen anyway to get Erdogan to stop embarrassing Trump over MBS’s hit on Kashoggi.
So it’s very gratifying to me that the judge would bring up treason.
"Maybe think about if you really want to be sentenced today, or after you've literally done every fucking thing you can to cooperate so you can get every bit of leniency you can afford."
A lot of downplaying this investigation is being thrown out so many windows this morning.
Christmas a week early!
His son is even more of a fucking tool for carrying on on social media like he has then.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
This is also utterly irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the agents thought he was telling the truth at any point. All that matters is an investigation concluded he was lying.
I suspect the son doesn't know the true extent of the situation either.
Whatever he gets. He gets.
Yet Jr continued to be a jackass.
"Thanks for the save, dad. Now let me try to undermine what you did for me."
Ungrateful little shit.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Waiving your right to appeal in a plea deal is generally a bad practice on the government’s behalf. That may not apply here—Flynn has at least had the time and counsel to make that an informed decision—but generally speaking the average citizen can be screwed for life by being pressured into a “no take backs” deal.
For example, there was a case where the defendant was given half an hour, and no opportunity to consult with his family, to choose between a death penalty sentence and a life w/o parole sentence + waiving his appeals, in a case that had a lot of appealsworthy issues.
This is one of those “it’s a shame Manafort has to wear prison clothes” things where I’m not saying Flynn should be the first person to get sympathy over this; but it is a real issue in criminal justice reform that people should be aware of.
I think this is a subjective thing and not like universal. Your example is bad, but someone like Flynn who had every advantage and then some was not pressured into this deal. In this case not being able to appeal the plea seems reasonable to me, dude is admitting what he did and getting a deal out of it from the government.
If anything Flynn should have to do time for what he did especially if he could be tried for fucking Treason which is a literal death penalty offense.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Seems fair because who can say which country is Flynn's
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
The big (and only really) hurdle is if Russia counts as an enemy under the Constitutional statute. The precedent suggests it has to be someone we are actually at war with
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Eric covers the Justice Department for the Associated Press
I’m not getting too worked up about it in Flynn’s case, but the issue bothers me in general. The whole point of the appeals process is to double check the results of the judicial process; if there are ultimately no issues, the government wastes some time and money working against the appeal, but at least we checked. If there are any issues, and the government uses its considerable leverage to get the defendant to waive appeals, then the system doesn’t get that check and it’s a problem.
The reason to avoid that here would really be to avoid the appearance of injustice. “Flynn was convicted and sentenced but if you’ll watch my Youtube video you’ll see he was unfairly pressured not to appeal and he would have won those appeals because x y and z” versus “Flynn was convicted and sentenced and although he appealed, every judge up to and including SCOTUS ruled against him.”
Translation: Bail bail bail (politico reporter)
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Kinda hard to hear him over that ringing bell.
The judge asked him like half a dozen times at the start if he was sure he wanted to proceed, and he was all "yes, yes, yes"
After literally like 30 minutes of listening to how much trouble he was in, they pulled a complete 180.
It's kind of beautiful.
Uh-oh I accidentally deleted my signature. Uh-oh!!
The point of "no appealing" is that Flynn is that Flynn doing this time is part of the deal. Appeals are him trying to weasel out of the deal. They are not allowing him to do that.
Half an hour later and they've got their tails in between their legs.
Uh-oh I accidentally deleted my signature. Uh-oh!!
And yes this is what I feel as well. Like the deal where he was going to get 0 jail time felt super generous knowing what we know he did and absent Trump being removed from office specifically Flynn should do actual time.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Sounds like the judge saw the information and then had a natural human reaction before going to calm down and realising maybe he should try to sound more impartial.
ummm
flynn was a foreign agent while in the white house
that's one of the things he was brought down for!
but yes, not guilty of the textbook def. of treason
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Is there any limit on how long the sentencing can be delayed? Is Flynn being held without bail in the meantime?
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/michael-flynn-sentencing/index.html
I'm not sure what to take at face value at this point
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
Their recruitment drives were almost entirely on personal connections and charm and seldom about having the required skills to pursue their aims.