Like, okay, my play is "Don't do anything until you are at 15 mana then cast more spells than they can counter"
Where's the damn fun in that?
Where's the fun in a deck that curves out with a haste creature, an unblockable haste creature, a second unblockable haste creature, and an indestructible 5/4 haste creature? (Pre-rotate RDW)
Tuned decks at either side of the aggro-control spectrum tend to feel extremely difficult or impossible to deal with, especially if they're drawing well. Control just happens to win by having 7 cards in hand while you're topdecking.
Like, okay, my play is "Don't do anything until you are at 15 mana then cast more spells than they can counter"
Where's the damn fun in that?
I actually just really like drawing cards. The entire point of playing MtG for me is to stop my opponent from killing me long enough to draw more cards.
Even better is if I can build an engine where me drawing cards = you dead.
Steam: Spawnbroker
+1
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Like, okay, my play is "Don't do anything until you are at 15 mana then cast more spells than they can counter"
Where's the damn fun in that?
Where's the fun in a deck that curves out with a haste creature, an unblockable haste creature, a second unblockable haste creature, and an indestructible 5/4 haste creature? (Pre-rotate RDW)
Tuned decks at either side of the aggro-control spectrum tend to feel extremely difficult or impossible to deal with, especially if they're drawing well. Control just happens to win by having 7 cards in hand while you're topdecking.
Like, okay, my play is "Don't do anything until you are at 15 mana then cast more spells than they can counter"
Where's the damn fun in that?
I actually just really like drawing cards. The entire point of playing MtG for me is to stop my opponent from killing me long enough to draw more cards.
Even better is if I can build an engine where me drawing cards = you dead.
I mean, I get where you're coming from with this, but it's also mind numbing to play against. My mental image of a control deck should be something that plays removal for the first few turns then starts dropping 5 and 6 drops to win off of, preferably by actually killing the opponent. And I'm sad that just isn't really a thing.
Yeah, I mean. I dunno what to tell you. Wizards should make cards that I can put in my control decks and win with. U/R has some good ones right now and a lot of the U/R decks are playing them. Ral is a perfect example, if he ultimates, he actually kills you! If Niv-Mizzet stays on the board, you die.
I don't actually know of a win-condition-less control deck right now, most of them are actually running win conditions. Lots of them!
Control has always been this way in Magic, and players have been complaining about control for just as long. I personally think aggro is mindless and boring to play. A lot of people disagree. But I'm not hating on aggro decks.
Steam: Spawnbroker
+1
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I don't know if how it is right now, but I heard lots of talk about the Dominaria deck featuring Teferi literally winning by naturally milling you.
that dimir deck seems like it'd do a lot of self damage
I think the idea is to use Arguel's Blood Fast/Temple of Aclazotz to sac the stuff you steal with Thief of Sanity to get some health back.
0
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
I did a draft. Figuring out the cuts was hard, as I had quite a few good things in the sideboard.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
+1
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
Do not play the green card. It isn't even that good. What else do you have?
+2
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
With all my big bottomed creatures, and the tendency of the format to board stall, it seemed like a good inclusion - trading my worst creature for their best then forcing bad blocks, and all.
Other stuff I have, the uncommon surveil counterspell, another Mephitic Vapors, another Imp, about four more Vedalken Mesmerists... Radical Idea.
It's certainly a work in progress, as should be clear by the many 1- and 2-ofs. That's partly because I don't have enough wildcards, but also because I can't quite figure out the direction to take the deck. There seem to be three main paths one could take it.
1: Surveil synergy midrange. Add some Dimir Spybugs, more surveil cards, maybe even some Darkblade Agents.
2: Value midrange. Lazav, Discovery//Dispersal, maybe some Kitesail freebooters?
3: Control? More Thought Erasures, counterspells, card advantage/draw
No idea which one makes most sense!
0
ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
With all my big bottomed creatures, and the tendency of the format to board stall, it seemed like a good inclusion - trading my worst creature for their best then forcing bad blocks, and all.
Other stuff I have, the uncommon surveil counterspell, another Mephitic Vapors, another Imp, about four more Vedalken Mesmerists... Radical Idea.
I’m admittedly not up to speed on current magic meta and stuff but splashing green in a draft for a single, common, 4cmc sorcery speed combat trick seems like not the best idea.
I get that it’s sort-of removal but it’s expensive, slow, and requires board control to properly use. Plus the number of times you will draw green mana and never see that card (and vice versa) will make you hate it
also i assume most teferi decks don't literally deck their opponent? after all the teferi deck has some surveil and card draw, so if it had literally no threats there's no guarantee your opponent will end up outdrawing you. i thought the way it works is you have one big uncounterable, unkillable threat that you'll eventually draw into while preventing your opponent from doing anything (or big threats that can be hard to answer like Lyra)
The one I played basically sat around, dealing a little bit of damage via Ionize and what not until it had enough land to Banefire me to death. If I had gained just a little more life I would have won, because he was gonna get decked.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
0
PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
also i assume most teferi decks don't literally deck their opponent? after all the teferi deck has some surveil and card draw, so if it had literally no threats there's no guarantee your opponent will end up outdrawing you. i thought the way it works is you have one big uncounterable, unkillable threat that you'll eventually draw into while preventing your opponent from doing anything (or big threats that can be hard to answer like Lyra)
correct me if i'm wrong as i am noobie idiot
at the very early sart after rav released, it was straight up a draw/go deck with no threats
also i assume most teferi decks don't literally deck their opponent? after all the teferi deck has some surveil and card draw, so if it had literally no threats there's no guarantee your opponent will end up outdrawing you. i thought the way it works is you have one big uncounterable, unkillable threat that you'll eventually draw into while preventing your opponent from doing anything (or big threats that can be hard to answer like Lyra)
correct me if i'm wrong as i am noobie idiot
Teferi can -3 himself, so you can actually run the deck with zero threats and rely on ulting a Teferi and repeatedly tucking a second one.
I ate an engineer
0
ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
If I, for instance, have a Teferi by chance, what sort of thing could I build around it?
With all my big bottomed creatures, and the tendency of the format to board stall, it seemed like a good inclusion - trading my worst creature for their best then forcing bad blocks, and all.
Other stuff I have, the uncommon surveil counterspell, another Mephitic Vapors, another Imp, about four more Vedalken Mesmerists... Radical Idea.
I’m admittedly not up to speed on current magic meta and stuff but splashing green in a draft for a single, common, 4cmc sorcery speed combat trick seems like not the best idea.
I get that it’s sort-of removal but it’s expensive, slow, and requires board control to properly use. Plus the number of times you will draw green mana and never see that card (and vice versa) will make you hate it
All valid points, I'll see about switching it out.
Every time I've drawn it, I've won the game, but that's results oriented thinking.
Currently 3-0 with the deck so far, it's powerful.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
+2
PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
There are two Jeskai decks and one Esper deck. Additionally, FWIW, the MTGGoldfish stats show that all 7 Esper decks are literally the exact same deck, while the Jeskai decks have variety.
Esper will definitely have more tools in the future, and maybe they're already good now, but Jeskai is still where it's at.
E: Additionally, Jeskai's broken up into two decks based on whether it runs creatures or not; there's more Jeskai by metagame share.
If you want a cheaper deck, you'd need to go entirely UW, and then you lose access to a lot of different threats; you'd probably want a Nezahal as a one-of.
I ate an engineer
0
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Oh come on, it seriously does that bullshit where you can't look at your draft deck at six wins? The box is literally right there, let me click it! That makes literally no sense!
Anyway, had my first 6-1 draft. It was sort of a Fun Police Boros deck, but... only half the time? Like, I had three or four games where I had a double Hazada Marshall draw that did stupid things. I only casted Tajic three times, all in the first two matches... but he still did stupid things in those matches.
But the real house, that won me my last two matches basically solo? Ledev Guardian + Candlelight Vigil. Either got that 2-3-4 curve and they didn't have removal on hand (untradeable 4 turn clock yay!), or I topdecked them back-to-back after all the removal had been spent. Fun times.
The Jeskai control with Niv Mizzet is amaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazing. It's packed full of sweepers for most Golgari/Selesnya decks and Niv Mizzet punishes control decks. It only really loses to curved out aggro (Seeing a Tajic on the play is awful because all your sweepers do nothing), or to greedy control; since it mainboards a lot less countermagic, a control deck just saying "fuck it" and tapping out for Teferi on T5 is actually really strong against me.
I ate an engineer
0
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
edited October 2018
YOU CAN'T TURN PASS TURN OFF IN THE MIDDLE OF A TURN? THEN WHY THE FUCK IS IT A TOGGLE INSTEAD OF A BUTTON?
edit: I'm less mad now but that's still extremely poor design
The Escape Goat on
+1
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
This is such a powerful standard.
Once I get on the right deck, I will be unstoppable.
0
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
I nicked a deck from elsewhere and burned all my mythic rares because the cards were pretty pretty Angels. I regret nothing. It also took me to two 7-1 records tonight on the one game Constructed entry.
//Creatures (20):
2 Adanto Vanguard
4 Resplendent Angel
3 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
4 Lyra Dawnbringer
3 Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice
4 Knight of Grace
//Non-creature Spells (15):
4 History of Benalia
3 Deafening Clarion
1 Lightning Strike
3 Lightning Strike
2 Conclave Tribunal
2 Seal Away
My own Mill deck knocked out a red mono with 3 life left tonight, so THAT felt good. Critiques on this one are welcome as this is my stupidity below and not a refined deck stolen from elsewhere like the one above this.
YOU CAN'T TURN PASS TURN OFF IN THE MIDDLE OF A TURN? THEN WHY THE FUCK IS IT A TOGGLE INSTEAD OF A BUTTON?
edit: I'm less mad now but that's still extremely poor design
I got mad at it for the opposite reason. See, when you toggle pass turn on during the opponents turn to hide the fact that you have a combat trick and then block one of their creatures, pass turn isn't turned off, so you're never given a chance to actually use that combat trick.
Posts
Where's the fun in a deck that curves out with a haste creature, an unblockable haste creature, a second unblockable haste creature, and an indestructible 5/4 haste creature? (Pre-rotate RDW)
Tuned decks at either side of the aggro-control spectrum tend to feel extremely difficult or impossible to deal with, especially if they're drawing well. Control just happens to win by having 7 cards in hand while you're topdecking.
I actually just really like drawing cards. The entire point of playing MtG for me is to stop my opponent from killing me long enough to draw more cards.
Even better is if I can build an engine where me drawing cards = you dead.
nah, it's still easier to interact with RDW
I mean, I get where you're coming from with this, but it's also mind numbing to play against. My mental image of a control deck should be something that plays removal for the first few turns then starts dropping 5 and 6 drops to win off of, preferably by actually killing the opponent. And I'm sad that just isn't really a thing.
I don't actually know of a win-condition-less control deck right now, most of them are actually running win conditions. Lots of them!
Control has always been this way in Magic, and players have been complaining about control for just as long. I personally think aggro is mindless and boring to play. A lot of people disagree. But I'm not hating on aggro decks.
Man I hope that deck's name is Ira Gamagoori.
Riv = Niv-Mizzet, Parun?
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
any idea which of those is best
Budget surveil deck. You can probably cut the narcomebas for blood opetatives and nightveil sprites if you don't want to use rares
I think the idea is to use Arguel's Blood Fast/Temple of Aclazotz to sac the stuff you steal with Thief of Sanity to get some health back.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Other stuff I have, the uncommon surveil counterspell, another Mephitic Vapors, another Imp, about four more Vedalken Mesmerists... Radical Idea.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
That was almost exclusively an in-paper competitive deck and even then most people at least played Torrential Gearhulk
I'd actually been thinking about how much I love that card today, thanks for linking this!
I started out by looking at this more control focused deck: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/arena_standard-ub-60720#paper
My current version looks like this:
It's certainly a work in progress, as should be clear by the many 1- and 2-ofs. That's partly because I don't have enough wildcards, but also because I can't quite figure out the direction to take the deck. There seem to be three main paths one could take it.
1: Surveil synergy midrange. Add some Dimir Spybugs, more surveil cards, maybe even some Darkblade Agents.
2: Value midrange. Lazav, Discovery//Dispersal, maybe some Kitesail freebooters?
3: Control? More Thought Erasures, counterspells, card advantage/draw
No idea which one makes most sense!
I’m admittedly not up to speed on current magic meta and stuff but splashing green in a draft for a single, common, 4cmc sorcery speed combat trick seems like not the best idea.
I get that it’s sort-of removal but it’s expensive, slow, and requires board control to properly use. Plus the number of times you will draw green mana and never see that card (and vice versa) will make you hate it
Someone please tell him it's Thief of Sanity, but theft... oh and erasure, not eraser...
First effect originates to the left. They're working to fix it
correct me if i'm wrong as i am noobie idiot
at the very early sart after rav released, it was straight up a draw/go deck with no threats
it's running chromium now though
Had a Dragon Hoard.
Much covet.
But was burning all his dragons (incl. Niv) until I ran out of cards, so made me feel better at least.
Teferi can -3 himself, so you can actually run the deck with zero threats and rely on ulting a Teferi and repeatedly tucking a second one.
All valid points, I'll see about switching it out.
Every time I've drawn it, I've won the game, but that's results oriented thinking.
Currently 3-0 with the deck so far, it's powerful.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/standard#paper
that's not really true though
at least not among actually well performing decks
There are currently more untapped duals available for Jeskai instead of Esper. When the next set is released, you'll see both.
Path of Exile: snowcrash7
MTG Arena: Snow_Crash#34179
Battle.net: Snowcrash#1873
I'm looking at the SCG results:
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/StarCityGamescom_Classic/2018-10-07_standard_Columbus_OH_US/1/
There are two Jeskai decks and one Esper deck. Additionally, FWIW, the MTGGoldfish stats show that all 7 Esper decks are literally the exact same deck, while the Jeskai decks have variety.
Esper will definitely have more tools in the future, and maybe they're already good now, but Jeskai is still where it's at.
E: Additionally, Jeskai's broken up into two decks based on whether it runs creatures or not; there's more Jeskai by metagame share.
Jeskai (UWr) or Esper (UWb) control:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-jeskai-control-60646#paper
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-esper-control-60628#paper
If you want a cheaper deck, you'd need to go entirely UW, and then you lose access to a lot of different threats; you'd probably want a Nezahal as a one-of.
Anyway, had my first 6-1 draft. It was sort of a Fun Police Boros deck, but... only half the time? Like, I had three or four games where I had a double Hazada Marshall draw that did stupid things. I only casted Tajic three times, all in the first two matches... but he still did stupid things in those matches.
But the real house, that won me my last two matches basically solo? Ledev Guardian + Candlelight Vigil. Either got that 2-3-4 curve and they didn't have removal on hand (untradeable 4 turn clock yay!), or I topdecked them back-to-back after all the removal had been spent. Fun times.
edit: I'm less mad now but that's still extremely poor design
Once I get on the right deck, I will be unstoppable.
Hm? I toggle it to skip combat then click it off. But what did you think it did...
2 Adanto Vanguard
4 Resplendent Angel
3 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
4 Lyra Dawnbringer
3 Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice
4 Knight of Grace
//Non-creature Spells (15):
4 History of Benalia
3 Deafening Clarion
1 Lightning Strike
3 Lightning Strike
2 Conclave Tribunal
2 Seal Away
//Lands (25):
12 Plains
5 Mountain
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Sacred Foundry
//Sideboard (13):
3 Banefire
2 Settle the Wreckage
1 Ixalan's Binding
2 Gideon's Reproach
1 Danitha Capashen, Paragon
1 Risk Factor
1 Jaya's Immolating Inferno
2 Adanto Vanguard
Mill
2 Danitha Capashen, Paragon
3 Nightveil Sprite
1 Muse Drake
3 Homarid Explorer
1 Lyra Dawnbringer
3 Knight of Grace
//Non-creature Spells (23):
2 Gideon's Reproach
4 Luminous Bonds
4 Cleansing Nova
2 Deep Freeze
1 Psychic Corrosion
1 Time of Ice
2 Patient Rebuilding
1 Amulet of Safekeeping
1 Fountain of Renewal
2 Sinister Sabotage
2 Devious Cover-Up
1 History of Benalia
//Lands (24):
8 Plains
9 Island
4 Meandering River
1 Memorial to Glory
2 Glacial Fortress
View deck: https://mtgarena.pro/decks/bluewhite-6
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I got mad at it for the opposite reason. See, when you toggle pass turn on during the opponents turn to hide the fact that you have a combat trick and then block one of their creatures, pass turn isn't turned off, so you're never given a chance to actually use that combat trick.