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Divorce Happy Fun Times

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Posts

  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Hell with anonymous research, I will flat out tell you it's better.

    I love both my parents to bits, and even though it sucked royally (I was 11) when they split, it became apparent that it was for the best.

    driving kind of sucks, but I didn't have a gameboy so easily remedied these days.

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  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Having known people who had parents that stayed together for the kids and being a child of divorce, I'd like to think on something:

    Given that children model behavior, is the relationship you'll be faking what you'll want him to emulate?
    Even separate, you're still Dad and she's still Mom. Shuttling can suck, but it's honestly not that big a deal.

    CelestialBadgerMsAnthropyNightslyrDevoutlyApatheticBloodySlothLaOsdispatch.oElvenshaeSleepDoctorArchForarJaysonFourSkeith
  • Reverend_ChaosReverend_Chaos Suit Up! Registered User regular
    Not wanting to go to couples counseling is her playing her hand. She doesn't want to sit down and have an honest conversation because she knows why she wants to bail, and it's not something she wants to discuss. I think that is VERY TELLING.

    Wanting to "play house" while she maintains her current lifestyle and makes zero compromises sounds like she just gets what she wants, while simultaneously not be honest about what that is, and just needs to hide it from you, because she knows that it will start a fight.

    I would talk to the lawyer about steps you should be taking to protect yourself financially, and ultimately how to protect your child. Playing a doormat now will only get you walked all over. You need to set your personal boundaries and you need to be firm about them.


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  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    Personal story. My parents got married after my mom got pregnant with me. After arguing for 25 years they got divorced. I'm almost 40 now and despite being a relatively well-functioning adult that garbage stays with you for a long time and inflicts lasting damage.

    Your child will figure it out.
    Your child will be harmed by the charade.
    Your child's relationship with you will be damaged by the deception.

    Take care of your son, take care of yourself. Those are your priorities, that is the order, and I think you're the only parent currently thinking along these lines. Just don't get confused and think that what's right for your wife is right for your son because the Venn diagram overlap on that is increasingly shrinking.

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  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    I grew up with parents who were in an unloving relationship for my entire childhood memory, they ended up actually separating when I got to highschool. As a kid you don't really question it, but i very much feel that their time together had a lasting and ongoing negative effect on me and my ability to picture what a healthy relationship should look like. Parents getting separated, while maintaining relations well enough to accommodate children being involved in both parents lives, feels so much dang better

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  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    Also a kid of divorce, life got better when they split.

    I have little input for this thread, but please seek out all the professional help that you reasonably can no matter what participation your wife offers up. While the focus of this thread has been your obligation to your son, the best thing you could offer him is being a happy, well adjusted, put together dad. You are not going to be able to do that and be in a broken marriage, and strangers on the internet can't get you all the way there.

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  • CreaganCreagan Registered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    Given that children model behavior, is the relationship you'll be faking what you'll want him to emulate?

    This is especially important to consider. You need to think about how this is going to affect your kid long-term, not in the moment or even in the year.

    Do you want to teach your son that it is okay for his partners to treat him the way you're being treated now?

    Do you want him to feel the way you feel right now?

    What would you want your son to do, for himself if he was in your situation?

    How can you model that for him?

    CelestialBadgerBobbleNightslyrElvenshaeSiskatynic
  • Romantic UndeadRomantic Undead Registered User regular
    I don't have much to add to this thread, but I feel compelled to echo everyone else's sentiment:

    Please don't lie to your son.

    I know you're hurting, you feel betrayed, this entire situation is unjust, you're probably angry. You are right to feel these things. But as right as those feelings may be, you cannot let them blind you to the reality of your situation. I know you feel you might be shielding your child from the difficult truths you are facing, but please don't underestimate your son's intuition. As has already been said multiple times in this thread: children can tell when something's wrong, and if your child feels you and his mother are lying to him, that's going to erode his trust in you which can do long-term damage to his social development as well as to to your relationship with him. You must confront this challenge head on and bring your son on-board. Even if you feel yourself wavering, he needs you to be his rock right now, especially if his mother is not willing to do her part in this.

    Also remember, that while we all here to offer a sympathetic ear, we are still just strangers on the internet, there is only so much we can do from here. There is no shame in seeking help in times like these. Asking for help is not admitting defeat, it is not giving up; you have a duty not just to your family but you yourself as well, and there are people out there you can help you with that. You cannot take care of your son if you don't take care of yourself first.

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  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    Dude you are already divorced, it just hasn't happened yet.

    Your relationship with your wife is dead, from what you've told us she is simply not interested in having a life together with you. It's done.

    Lawyer up, get yourself and your son to counselling, and do everything you can to protect him.

    She can lean on her new boyfriend if she needs help.

    XaquinNobodyElvenshaeAridholNightslyrTemporal ParadoxBolthornReverend_ChaosRichyNightDragonMsAnthropyNSDFRandMechMantisMoridin889KalnaurJustice
  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Your wife wants her cake and to be able to eat it, too.

    With this little charade, she gets to keep you paying her bills and gets to go pal around with her guy on the side while trying to stall as long as possible.

    What the hell do YOU get out of this? Anxiety? Stress? The illusion that everything is happy hunky-dory so it's out of sight, out of mind?

    I know you don't want to hear this, but...

    She's completely taking advantage of you and the desires you have to try and save the marriage. As long as you still think there's a way out of this that doesn't end in divorce, she's going to keep squeezing and squeezing and dragging it out to get as much as possible. Sit your son down before she has a chance to, and talk to him, because you don't know what he's already seen, heard, or been told. Also, to echo others in this thread: counseling. For you and your son, both. Like yesterday. Show them all the questions you've been asking us. Then, steel up and talk to a lawyer. She doesn't want a life with you, and the sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll be able to move on with your son.

    As for her difficulties? Boo hoo, she's the one seeing a guy on the side while you're taking care of the household. Let him deal with her needs and focus on you.

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  • Blameless ClericBlameless Cleric An angel made of sapphires each more flawlessly cut than the last Registered User regular
    My partner's parents stayed together for the kids (and remain married). It sucks. He spent tons of his childhood viewing them as untrustworthy liars and hypocrites because they were so obviously lying about the state of their relationship. Because of this (among other things) he felt unable to confide in them as a teenager when things in his life were difficult and he was struggling with depression. They were distracted by their issues during key moments for both him and his brother, and weren't able to be as supportive or aware of them as they should have. He has no intention of allowing them them to ever spend much unsupervised time with any eventual grandkids, and barely goes home unless he has to.

    Everyone I know with divorced parents is glad that they're divorced.

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  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Well, she finally agreed to marriage counseling.

    And believe me, the folks in this thread talking about taking advantage and riding things out were NOT the only people saying that. Basically my entire social/family circle have been along the same lines. So with that and having been able to think about it for a couple of days, I talked to her about not feeling like what she was doing was trying at all, that our son would see through it and it would screw him up even more, I didn't want to feel like I was the answer to a logistical problem until she could pay to leave, and that if she meant it when she said she wanted to try the only way I was willing to if it was together as a family, not as some façade. I wasn't ok with Mom and Dad in one situation and Person A and Person B in another.

    That meant seeing a marriage counselor together at the very least. She said she wasn't sure if it would do anything and that she had bad experiences with counseling in the past related to her bipolar stuff. We talked about how even if it didn't save anything, it would at least mean we tried our best and would probably let everyone involved walk away healthier than the way things were going now.

    So, I'm looking at practices in my area that take my insurance (Blue Cross Blue Shield, seems to have some options) but I'm basically using Google Reviews and word of mouth recommendations from friends and family. Is there any other way to research and find a good one?

    I'm trying to not take it as an outrageously positive development, but it is something.

    Raynaga on
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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    I'm really glad for you, Raynaga.

    dispatch.oObiFettBloodySlothLostNinjaJebusUDDoctorArchCambiataExtreaminatusMoridin889SkeithBouwsT
  • MsAnthropyMsAnthropy The Lady of Pain Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm The City of FlowersRegistered User regular
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Well, she finally agreed to marriage counseling.

    And believe me, the folks in this thread talking about taking advantage and riding things out were NOT the only people saying that. Basically my entire social/family circle have been along the same lines. So with that and having been able to think about it for a couple of days, I talked to her about not feeling like what she was doing was trying at all, that our son would see through it and it would screw him up even more, I didn't want to feel like I was the answer to a logistical problem until she could pay to leave, and that if she meant it when she said she wanted to try the only way I was willing to if it was together as a family, not as some façade. I wasn't ok with Mom and Dad in one situation and Person A and Person B in another.

    That meant seeing a marriage counselor together at the very least. She said she wasn't sure if it would do anything and that she had bad experiences with counseling in the past related to her bipolar stuff. We talked about how even if it didn't save anything, it would at least mean we tried our best and would probably let everyone involved walk away healthier than the way things were going now.

    So, I'm looking at practices in my area that take my insurance (Blue Cross Blue Shield, seems to have some options) but I'm basically using Google Reviews and word of mouth recommendations from friends and family. Is there any other way to research and find a good one?

    I'm trying to not take it as an outrageously positive development, but it is something.

    Re: The bolded - Be prepared to pay for marriage counseling completely out of pocket. Many insurance plans don't cover it at all, and some therapists don't bother to bill it since that generally requires a diagnosis--which is very difficult to give to a couple. It really sucks, but don't be shocked if that is the case.

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  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    MsAnthropy wrote: »
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Well, she finally agreed to marriage counseling.

    And believe me, the folks in this thread talking about taking advantage and riding things out were NOT the only people saying that. Basically my entire social/family circle have been along the same lines. So with that and having been able to think about it for a couple of days, I talked to her about not feeling like what she was doing was trying at all, that our son would see through it and it would screw him up even more, I didn't want to feel like I was the answer to a logistical problem until she could pay to leave, and that if she meant it when she said she wanted to try the only way I was willing to if it was together as a family, not as some façade. I wasn't ok with Mom and Dad in one situation and Person A and Person B in another.

    That meant seeing a marriage counselor together at the very least. She said she wasn't sure if it would do anything and that she had bad experiences with counseling in the past related to her bipolar stuff. We talked about how even if it didn't save anything, it would at least mean we tried our best and would probably let everyone involved walk away healthier than the way things were going now.

    So, I'm looking at practices in my area that take my insurance (Blue Cross Blue Shield, seems to have some options) but I'm basically using Google Reviews and word of mouth recommendations from friends and family. Is there any other way to research and find a good one?

    I'm trying to not take it as an outrageously positive development, but it is something.

    Re: The bolded - Be prepared to pay for marriage counseling completely out of pocket. Many insurance plans don't cover it at all, and some therapists don't bother to bill it since that generally requires a diagnosis--which is very difficult to give to a couple. It really sucks, but don't be shocked if that is the case.

    Yeah, I'm ready for that. Just figured it was worth researching because if I can do it with insurance, why not? I've found several that list my insurance as accepted, but I'm not sure how that works in relation to marriage counseling specifically.

    ElvenshaeBobbleNightslyrMsAnthropy
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Well, she finally agreed to marriage counseling.

    And believe me, the folks in this thread talking about taking advantage and riding things out were NOT the only people saying that. Basically my entire social/family circle have been along the same lines. So with that and having been able to think about it for a couple of days, I talked to her about not feeling like what she was doing was trying at all, that our son would see through it and it would screw him up even more, I didn't want to feel like I was the answer to a logistical problem until she could pay to leave, and that if she meant it when she said she wanted to try the only way I was willing to if it was together as a family, not as some façade. I wasn't ok with Mom and Dad in one situation and Person A and Person B in another.

    That meant seeing a marriage counselor together at the very least. She said she wasn't sure if it would do anything and that she had bad experiences with counseling in the past related to her bipolar stuff. We talked about how even if it didn't save anything, it would at least mean we tried our best and would probably let everyone involved walk away healthier than the way things were going now.

    So, I'm looking at practices in my area that take my insurance (Blue Cross Blue Shield, seems to have some options) but I'm basically using Google Reviews and word of mouth recommendations from friends and family. Is there any other way to research and find a good one?

    I'm trying to not take it as an outrageously positive development, but it is something.

    I will offer you the same bit of knowledge I offer any couple I work with. Sometimes people go to couples counseling to help make a relationship better, sometimes they go to navigate a break-up in a healthy way, and sometimes they don't know why they are there. What is important is that a healthy resolution so everyone can move forward with their lives in whatever fashion is best.

    Your method is basically the best method to find someone. Recommendations are awesome if you know some people you can trust. Best of luck.

    NightslyrBloodySlothceresDevoutlyApatheticjungleroomxMsAnthropyIrukaUsagiNaphtaliMoridin889BouwsT
  • SerpentSerpent Sometimes Vancouver, BC, sometimes Brisbane, QLDRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Raynaga wrote: »
    MsAnthropy wrote: »
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Well, she finally agreed to marriage counseling.

    And believe me, the folks in this thread talking about taking advantage and riding things out were NOT the only people saying that. Basically my entire social/family circle have been along the same lines. So with that and having been able to think about it for a couple of days, I talked to her about not feeling like what she was doing was trying at all, that our son would see through it and it would screw him up even more, I didn't want to feel like I was the answer to a logistical problem until she could pay to leave, and that if she meant it when she said she wanted to try the only way I was willing to if it was together as a family, not as some façade. I wasn't ok with Mom and Dad in one situation and Person A and Person B in another.

    That meant seeing a marriage counselor together at the very least. She said she wasn't sure if it would do anything and that she had bad experiences with counseling in the past related to her bipolar stuff. We talked about how even if it didn't save anything, it would at least mean we tried our best and would probably let everyone involved walk away healthier than the way things were going now.

    So, I'm looking at practices in my area that take my insurance (Blue Cross Blue Shield, seems to have some options) but I'm basically using Google Reviews and word of mouth recommendations from friends and family. Is there any other way to research and find a good one?

    I'm trying to not take it as an outrageously positive development, but it is something.

    Re: The bolded - Be prepared to pay for marriage counseling completely out of pocket. Many insurance plans don't cover it at all, and some therapists don't bother to bill it since that generally requires a diagnosis--which is very difficult to give to a couple. It really sucks, but don't be shocked if that is the case.

    Yeah, I'm ready for that. Just figured it was worth researching because if I can do it with insurance, why not? I've found several that list my insurance as accepted, but I'm not sure how that works in relation to marriage counseling specifically.

    The only counseling I know have that has any evidence based success rates with regards to couples therapy is Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) and Gottman Therapy. So I highly recommend you look for an EFT therapist or Gottman therapist.

    Both types of therapies have been around for about 30 years or so.

    They are supposed to have success rates of improving the relationship around 75 to 90%. I could probably cite that somewhere.

    Other types of couples therapy I've heard have success rates of 25% or less. But no, I can't cite that.

    Serpent on
  • UsagiUsagi Nah Registered User regular
    Serpent wrote: »
    Raynaga wrote: »
    MsAnthropy wrote: »
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Well, she finally agreed to marriage counseling.

    And believe me, the folks in this thread talking about taking advantage and riding things out were NOT the only people saying that. Basically my entire social/family circle have been along the same lines. So with that and having been able to think about it for a couple of days, I talked to her about not feeling like what she was doing was trying at all, that our son would see through it and it would screw him up even more, I didn't want to feel like I was the answer to a logistical problem until she could pay to leave, and that if she meant it when she said she wanted to try the only way I was willing to if it was together as a family, not as some façade. I wasn't ok with Mom and Dad in one situation and Person A and Person B in another.

    That meant seeing a marriage counselor together at the very least. She said she wasn't sure if it would do anything and that she had bad experiences with counseling in the past related to her bipolar stuff. We talked about how even if it didn't save anything, it would at least mean we tried our best and would probably let everyone involved walk away healthier than the way things were going now.

    So, I'm looking at practices in my area that take my insurance (Blue Cross Blue Shield, seems to have some options) but I'm basically using Google Reviews and word of mouth recommendations from friends and family. Is there any other way to research and find a good one?

    I'm trying to not take it as an outrageously positive development, but it is something.

    Re: The bolded - Be prepared to pay for marriage counseling completely out of pocket. Many insurance plans don't cover it at all, and some therapists don't bother to bill it since that generally requires a diagnosis--which is very difficult to give to a couple. It really sucks, but don't be shocked if that is the case.

    Yeah, I'm ready for that. Just figured it was worth researching because if I can do it with insurance, why not? I've found several that list my insurance as accepted, but I'm not sure how that works in relation to marriage counseling specifically.

    The only counseling I know have that has any evidence based success rates with regards to couples therapy is Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) and Gottman Therapy. So I highly recommend you look for an EFT therapist or Gottman therapist.

    Both types of therapies have been around for about 30 years or so.

    They are supposed to have success rates of improving the relationship around 75 to 90%. I could probably cite that somewhere.

    Other types of couples therapy I've heard have success rates of 25% or less. But no, I can't cite that.

    Hey so, "successful therapy" and "relationship is saved" are not necessarily correlated.

    Therapy is there to give folks the tools to communicate with each other and to discover what their true underlying needs are--that's success.

    When you finally learn how to talk to one another about what you need, you may discover the person you're with isn't the right one.

    ObiFettNightDragondispatch.otynicLostNinjaCelloceresCambiataBloodySlothRollsavagerMysstDonovan PuppyfuckerTNTrooperDaenrisspool32GnizmoRendAuralynxNightslyrMoridin889MsAnthropyDisruptedCapitalistSkeith
  • SerpentSerpent Sometimes Vancouver, BC, sometimes Brisbane, QLDRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Usagi wrote: »
    Serpent wrote: »
    Raynaga wrote: »
    MsAnthropy wrote: »
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Well, she finally agreed to marriage counseling.

    And believe me, the folks in this thread talking about taking advantage and riding things out were NOT the only people saying that. Basically my entire social/family circle have been along the same lines. So with that and having been able to think about it for a couple of days, I talked to her about not feeling like what she was doing was trying at all, that our son would see through it and it would screw him up even more, I didn't want to feel like I was the answer to a logistical problem until she could pay to leave, and that if she meant it when she said she wanted to try the only way I was willing to if it was together as a family, not as some façade. I wasn't ok with Mom and Dad in one situation and Person A and Person B in another.

    That meant seeing a marriage counselor together at the very least. She said she wasn't sure if it would do anything and that she had bad experiences with counseling in the past related to her bipolar stuff. We talked about how even if it didn't save anything, it would at least mean we tried our best and would probably let everyone involved walk away healthier than the way things were going now.

    So, I'm looking at practices in my area that take my insurance (Blue Cross Blue Shield, seems to have some options) but I'm basically using Google Reviews and word of mouth recommendations from friends and family. Is there any other way to research and find a good one?

    I'm trying to not take it as an outrageously positive development, but it is something.

    Re: The bolded - Be prepared to pay for marriage counseling completely out of pocket. Many insurance plans don't cover it at all, and some therapists don't bother to bill it since that generally requires a diagnosis--which is very difficult to give to a couple. It really sucks, but don't be shocked if that is the case.

    Yeah, I'm ready for that. Just figured it was worth researching because if I can do it with insurance, why not? I've found several that list my insurance as accepted, but I'm not sure how that works in relation to marriage counseling specifically.

    The only counseling I know have that has any evidence based success rates with regards to couples therapy is Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) and Gottman Therapy. So I highly recommend you look for an EFT therapist or Gottman therapist.

    Both types of therapies have been around for about 30 years or so.

    They are supposed to have success rates of improving the relationship around 75 to 90%. I could probably cite that somewhere.

    Other types of couples therapy I've heard have success rates of 25% or less. But no, I can't cite that.

    Hey so, "successful therapy" and "relationship is saved" are not necessarily correlated.

    Therapy is there to give folks the tools to communicate with each other and to discover what their true underlying needs are--that's success.

    When you finally learn how to talk to one another about what you need, you may discover the person you're with isn't the right one.

    Raynaga wrote: »
    it would at least mean we tried our best

    In the context of the OPs post I believe "successful therapy" for what he is looking for means "relationship is saved" and the recommendation for EFT and Gottman therapy is sound.

    Serpent on
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    We are not having that conversation again. You need to let go of that therapy being appropriate in most circumstances you are going to encounter on this forum.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    tynicdispatch.oUsagiJaysonFourNightslyr
  • SerpentSerpent Sometimes Vancouver, BC, sometimes Brisbane, QLDRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    ceres wrote: »
    We are not having that conversation again. You need to let go of that therapy being appropriate in most circumstances you are going to encounter on this forum.

    This is a different type of therapy than you and I discussed last time. I'm sorry if this offended you.

    edit: I left the other type off specifically because it didn't seem to fit his circumstances and what his wife agreed to.

    Serpent on
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Serpent wrote: »
    Usagi wrote: »
    Serpent wrote: »
    Raynaga wrote: »
    MsAnthropy wrote: »
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Well, she finally agreed to marriage counseling.

    And believe me, the folks in this thread talking about taking advantage and riding things out were NOT the only people saying that. Basically my entire social/family circle have been along the same lines. So with that and having been able to think about it for a couple of days, I talked to her about not feeling like what she was doing was trying at all, that our son would see through it and it would screw him up even more, I didn't want to feel like I was the answer to a logistical problem until she could pay to leave, and that if she meant it when she said she wanted to try the only way I was willing to if it was together as a family, not as some façade. I wasn't ok with Mom and Dad in one situation and Person A and Person B in another.

    That meant seeing a marriage counselor together at the very least. She said she wasn't sure if it would do anything and that she had bad experiences with counseling in the past related to her bipolar stuff. We talked about how even if it didn't save anything, it would at least mean we tried our best and would probably let everyone involved walk away healthier than the way things were going now.

    So, I'm looking at practices in my area that take my insurance (Blue Cross Blue Shield, seems to have some options) but I'm basically using Google Reviews and word of mouth recommendations from friends and family. Is there any other way to research and find a good one?

    I'm trying to not take it as an outrageously positive development, but it is something.

    Re: The bolded - Be prepared to pay for marriage counseling completely out of pocket. Many insurance plans don't cover it at all, and some therapists don't bother to bill it since that generally requires a diagnosis--which is very difficult to give to a couple. It really sucks, but don't be shocked if that is the case.

    Yeah, I'm ready for that. Just figured it was worth researching because if I can do it with insurance, why not? I've found several that list my insurance as accepted, but I'm not sure how that works in relation to marriage counseling specifically.

    The only counseling I know have that has any evidence based success rates with regards to couples therapy is Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) and Gottman Therapy. So I highly recommend you look for an EFT therapist or Gottman therapist.

    Both types of therapies have been around for about 30 years or so.

    They are supposed to have success rates of improving the relationship around 75 to 90%. I could probably cite that somewhere.

    Other types of couples therapy I've heard have success rates of 25% or less. But no, I can't cite that.

    Hey so, "successful therapy" and "relationship is saved" are not necessarily correlated.

    Therapy is there to give folks the tools to communicate with each other and to discover what their true underlying needs are--that's success.

    When you finally learn how to talk to one another about what you need, you may discover the person you're with isn't the right one.

    Raynaga wrote: »
    it would at least mean we tried our best

    In the context of the OPs post I believe "successful therapy" for what he is looking for means "relationship is saved" and the recommendation for EFT and Gottman therapy is sound.

    That's just not how therapy works when it is effective. Relationships are not all meant to be saved, and it is never the therapists job to do the saving. Usagi is 100% right here. Navigating a break up is very much seen as a success if it is done in a way that helps both individuals be happier. I don't want to belabor the point overly, but I do want to make sure the OP has a solid concept of what to expect. Any therapist who is saying they will make sure to save your relationship is not one you should ever go back to.

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  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Serpent wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    We are not having that conversation again. You need to let go of that therapy being appropriate in most circumstances you are going to encounter on this forum.

    This is a different type of therapy than you and I discussed last time. I'm sorry if this offended you.

    edit: I left the other type off specifically because it didn't seem to fit his circumstances and what his wife agreed to.

    It doesn't offend me, it's just not good advice here. Relationships require two parties to make work, and here one has made explicit that they're not interested in any kind of constructive way. It's not a conversation we can or should have here, and if you're interested in exploring the merits or drawbacks of this therapy D&D is a much better place to do it.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    Usagi
  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    Raynaga wrote: »
    We talked about how even if it didn't save anything, it would at least mean we tried our best and would probably let everyone involved walk away healthier than the way things were going now.

    Just to put that line of discussion to rest, half of the quote was removed. I'm very aware that the end result may be something I don't want. But we'll get there in better shape, either way.

    We have it narrowed down to three in our area. Asked her to pick which (I narrowed it down to the three) and we'll see what happens.

  • EggyToastEggyToast Registered User regular
    Either way, whether you proceed to divorce or staying together, communication is really of utmost importance. Part of the reason people suggest using a lawyer for divorce proceedings is because it introduces a third party for channeling communication, and that is true too for marriage counseling.

    My wife went to a marriage counselor with her ex husband, and while they still split up, she learned a lot from that person. Even after the split and divorce, my wife continued to see the therapist just for herself, and again, it keeps the communication going. The WORST thing is to keep something inside and let it fester. Even if, at the end of the day, it doesn't work out, you can at least say you both tried and you tried to keep the communication open.

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  • SerpentSerpent Sometimes Vancouver, BC, sometimes Brisbane, QLDRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Serpent was warned for this.
    ceres wrote: »
    Serpent wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    We are not having that conversation again. You need to let go of that therapy being appropriate in most circumstances you are going to encounter on this forum.

    This is a different type of therapy than you and I discussed last time. I'm sorry if this offended you.

    edit: I left the other type off specifically because it didn't seem to fit his circumstances and what his wife agreed to.

    It doesn't offend me, it's just not good advice here. Relationships require two parties to make work, and here one has made explicit that they're not interested in any kind of constructive way. It's not a conversation we can or should have here, and if you're interested in exploring the merits or drawbacks of this therapy D&D is a much better place to do it.

    Errr

    His wife agreed to therapy... Hence the advice.

    ceres on
  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    Well, an update.

    She said she thinks her issues are her, not us. And as a result she wants to do solo therapy, to invite me in later if needed. That said, she hasn't made an appointment yet. She emailed them, apparently? I think a phone call and a set date is probably better. I offered to do it myself if she didn't want to deal with it, and she said by Friday go ahead. I feel like Jon Hamm in Mad Men sending his wife to therapy. Not great.

    At home, it's back to how things were! No missing time, no vanishing acts. She won't touch me with a ten foot pole, but it's not WW3? I honestly don't know what I'm doing, here. I am still slotted for promotion, somehow, after the new year.

    It's better, but also worse? Not real sure.

  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    In my opinion, she's stalling and looking for the easiest out, but I don't know

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Everything you mentioned there was about what she wants and needs. You are just as important and just as entitled to having needs, like going to therapy together, as she is.

    It definitely sounds like she's scared of doing what she actually wants to do and is stringing things along until she decides one way or the other. More importantly, I got all that from your description of the situation so it sounds like you think that's what she's doing.

    That does not sound like healthy relationship modeling for your kid.

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  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    If you gender invert this situation, you pretty much have every toxic husband trope from cinema. This doesn't read as progress so much as her manipulating you to do what she wants: namely to keep her dream house and comforts while not keeping you except as a necessity.

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  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    Assuming the best of your wife, it sounds like she's still confused about her life and situation. She said some pretty extreme things to you "I was never really in love with you." Once someone voices that outloud it becomes a truth and much harder to walk back from. She knows she is the one that has caused all this and its probably why she knows she needs to be the one that talks to someone. She probably also isn't touching you because it would be dishonest when put together with all the stuff she said out loud to you a few weeks back. It sounds like she's not running out to see that guy anymore? So thats good.

    My initial thought is that she screwed up with him, has since realized it was a mistake, but doesn't know how or if she wants to come back from it. Hopefully she can make some good progress with a therapist and figure out what she needs to do so you can at least have some final direction on where your relationship/family is going.

    BurnageLostNinjaSiskaElvenshaeCaedwyrEnc
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    You can probably give her the benefit of the doubt so you can work on things if you still feel that's best, but it probably doesn't hurt to keep the number for a good lawyer on hand. Even if she doesn't want to go to therapy together, you should still see one yourself IMO. You've been in this relationship for a very long time and just got a truckload of garbage dumped on your head over the last few weeks; that's worth taking the time to sort through with a professional. If she gives you a hard time about that I would say "beware." I think it's pretty normal to have difficulty trusting her intentions right now.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    yeah things are NOT back to how they were, especially with the lying, deception, and possible cheating still unaddressed.

    What has happened here is that she has gotten all the things she wants:
    - no need to leave
    - no financial strain
    - less oversight / accountability
    - you fear to upset the balance lest it go back to the horrible way it was so you'll be gun-shy
    - she can continue to do whatever she wants with the other guy until you catch her again, at which point you do the cycle again.

    You have gotten none of the things you want:
    - no stability
    - no resolution of the issues
    - no compliance with your counselling demand
    - no protection for yourself or your child from financial and emotional ruin
    - no assurance that things will be better
    - no emotional or physical partner

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  • OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    I think it is probably really easy to tell if someone wants to be in a relationship, and you know what the real answer is. We don't because we aren't there. I know what it LOOKS like from the written details, but I don't know for sure. I would write the same list Spool did and think I did a few weeks ago.

    spool32Elvenshaedispatch.oXaquinCambiata
  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    yeah things are NOT back to how they were, especially with the lying, deception, and possible cheating still unaddressed.

    What has happened here is that she has gotten all the things she wants:
    - no need to leave
    - no financial strain
    - less oversight / accountability
    - you fear to upset the balance lest it go back to the horrible way it was so you'll be gun-shy
    - she can continue to do whatever she wants with the other guy until you catch her again, at which point you do the cycle again.

    You have gotten none of the things you want:
    - no stability
    - no resolution of the issues
    - no compliance with your counselling demand
    - no protection for yourself or your child from financial and emotional ruin
    - no assurance that things will be better
    - no emotional or physical partner

    Yep. The merry-go-round is back to its starting position, and she's learning that if she doesn't upset you, she can get away with pretty much everything she ever could want. That's what she's seizing on- if she can somehow keep you comfortable, then she gets her cake and gets to eat it, too- and her actions indicate she's going to keep riding this until either she gets what she ultimately wants, or you finally get fed up enough to end it or run out of money and can't support her any more- at which point she takes your son to live with whatever creepo she's seeing at the moment, and he gets exposed to who-only-knows what kind of behavior to think is normal in a relationship.

    At this point, I'd just say find a lawyer and get things in order. She doesn't want a life with you, she wants a life where you pay for her expenses and she gets to go do whatever she wants- and the price for that is apparently keeping you happy. You offered for therapy, and she refused. The sooner you cut your losses and her loose and realize she's just treating you as her pocketbook, the sooner you make a better life for you and your son, as well as getting both you and your kid into therapy of your own to start getting over this.

    The music is starting up again- are you going to keep going round and round, or are you going to finally break loose of this mountain of madness?

    steam_sig.png
    NSDFRandspool32
  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    I feel like a bunch of the advice is ignoring that his wife hasn't had any missing time or vanishing acts. It's unlikely she's still meeting up with that dude.

    People make mistakes and come back from it. While she definitely hasn't committed to trying to make it work, it doesn't sound like she's necessarily continuing to choose this dude over her family.

    It really sounds like she's trying to figure out what to do, and her taking her time in doing that isn't necessarily a bad thing considering what's on the line.

    Should she be communicating more with him? Yeah, sounds like it. But at least she's committed to going to therapy which should hopefully put her in a better place to make a decision and stop leaving Raynaga hanging.

    LostNinjaCaedwyrKristmas Kthulhu
  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    She got an appointment set for 10/30. And that is without me going back and saying I was getting concerned that we weren't moving forward.

    I told her again that I was 100% committed to going, but she thinks solo first will help her with what she's going through. Still doesn't feel right, but it's what she wants.

    And yes, it could very well be repeating a cycle now, but at the moment my line of thinking is closer to Obi's version. If she was still going over there, etc that would be another matter, but on the face of it at least she isn't. And as we've talked she's said outright that she has realized she was making bad choices, had lost her mind (her words, not mine) and was trying to get it back, etc.

    I am fully aware I will need some stuff too down the line. For the trust problems this has all caused, if nothing else. But right now her and my son need some stability. My stuff can happen later.

    Raynaga on
  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    Raynaga wrote: »
    She got an appointment set for 10/30. And that is without me going back and saying I was getting concerned that we weren't moving forward.

    I told her again that I was 100% committed to going, but she thinks solo first will help her with what she's going through. Still doesn't feel right, but it's what she wants.

    And yes, it could very well be repeating a cycle now, but at the moment my line of thinking is closer to Obi's version. If she was still going over there, etc that would be another matter, but on the face of it at least she isn't. And as we've talked she's said outright that she has realized she was making bad choices, had lost her mind (her words, not mine) and was trying to get it back, etc.

    I am fully aware I will need some stuff too down the line. For the trust problems this has all caused, if nothing else. But right now her and my son need some stability. My stuff can happen later.

    Her stability doesn’t need to come before your own. I tend to agree with what Obi said as well based off what you have said here (no more lost time or red flags, and following up on seeking therapy.), but it’s worth remembering that the hurt and trust issues are there for you more so than her. You deserve the stability as well, and only you can decide if you are able to get past those issues and forgive her (which you don’t have to if you feel you can’t!) in order to get that stability, or if you can only get it without her.

    ObiFettBloodySlothLord PalingtonBobbleNightslyrNSDFRandKristmas KthulhuschussUsagi
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Raynaga wrote: »
    She got an appointment set for 10/30. And that is without me going back and saying I was getting concerned that we weren't moving forward.

    I told her again that I was 100% committed to going, but she thinks solo first will help her with what she's going through. Still doesn't feel right, but it's what she wants.

    And yes, it could very well be repeating a cycle now, but at the moment my line of thinking is closer to Obi's version. If she was still going over there, etc that would be another matter, but on the face of it at least she isn't. And as we've talked she's said outright that she has realized she was making bad choices, had lost her mind (her words, not mine) and was trying to get it back, etc.

    I am fully aware I will need some stuff too down the line. For the trust problems this has all caused, if nothing else. But right now her and my son need some stability. My stuff can happen later.

    I don't see any real reason why you can't engage in your own therapy right now. She's decided she wants to do that. Why can't you as well?

    ObiFettceresBloodySlothGnizmotynicMsAnthropyElvenshaespool32Moridin889Donovan PuppyfuckerCambiataDidgeridooAuralynxXaquinLaOsBobbleSleepSkeithNightslyrKalnaurbalerbowerKristmas KthulhuschussMrGrimoireNaphtaliUsagiShazkar ShadowstormStabbity Style
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    I guess I would just say this now: make sure one more chance is really only one more chance.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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