While I agree that it's an interesting idea to explore, and would definitely cause changes, that's something I'd much rather were explored in an Elseworlds and not in mainline continuity.
While I agree that it's an interesting idea to explore, and would definitely cause changes, that's something I'd much rather were explored in an Elseworlds and not in mainline continuity.
Ehhhh
It HAS been done in Elseworlds before
Having it be done in the main DCU is basically the only way it would be actually interesting at this point
The last time I can find Alfred being completely off the board is in 1964 and that only lasted a few issues
Alfred is an outstanding character and I love him dearly but over 50 years of being around is a pretty long run
It is right in line with what King appears to be doing with his run, allowing Bruce to move beyond his parents and their murder, at least to a degree, and live life as his own (Bat)man.
Alfred is the only thing in his life that ties him directly to his parents, what with Alfred working for them and then acting as Bruce's surrogate father after their death.
By taking Alfred out of the equation (and having Bruce defeat Flashpoint Thomas, which appears to be the endgame of the run judging from issue 83's cover) he is leaving the book with a Bruce Wayne who has literally defeated his past, has lost his second father who was also a direct connection to his parents and is embracing life with someone else in Catwoman which is
It is right in line with what King appears to be doing with his run, allowing Bruce to move beyond his parents and their murder, at least to a degree, and live life as his own (Bat)man.
Alfred is the only thing in his life that ties him directly to his parents, what with Alfred working for them and then acting as Bruce's surrogate father after their death.
By taking Alfred out of the equation (and having Bruce defeat Flashpoint Thomas, which appears to be the endgame of the run judging from issue 83's cover) he is leaving the book with a Bruce Wayne who has literally defeated his past, has lost his second father who was also a direct connection to his parents and is embracing life with someone else in Catwoman which is
A pretty good status quo shift
I think
just about everything about Batman ties him to his parents. The company, the money, the estate, etc etc. I don't think taking Alfred out of the equation really gets to the point you're making about separating Bruce from the shadow of his parents.
It is right in line with what King appears to be doing with his run, allowing Bruce to move beyond his parents and their murder, at least to a degree, and live life as his own (Bat)man.
Alfred is the only thing in his life that ties him directly to his parents, what with Alfred working for them and then acting as Bruce's surrogate father after their death.
By taking Alfred out of the equation (and having Bruce defeat Flashpoint Thomas, which appears to be the endgame of the run judging from issue 83's cover) he is leaving the book with a Bruce Wayne who has literally defeated his past, has lost his second father who was also a direct connection to his parents and is embracing life with someone else in Catwoman which is
A pretty good status quo shift
I think
just about everything about Batman ties him to his parents. The company, the money, the estate, etc etc. I don't think taking Alfred out of the equation really gets to the point you're making about separating Bruce from the shadow of his parents.
Those are ties, sure, although I would argue how strong they are given how many times Wayne Enterprises has had hostile takeovers or management coups or what have you and how many times the manor has had to be rebuilt.
But they are just things
Alfred is a living, breathing tether to his childhood and his parents and an incredibly huge influence on Bruce's life.
There are other, smaller, touchstones (like Gordon helping kid Bruce after the murder in some continuities or Leslie Thompkins knowing Bruce since he was a child after their murder) but absolutely none of them are as prominent and constant of a reminder as Alfred is.
I don't really disagree with the motivation behind this change or anything, I just don't want
Alfred dead
Especially since he will inevitably come back, which means some boring shenanigans.
Jason Todd should have stayed dead. Instead of a reminder of how fucked up having a Robin actually is, it's just a blip like taking a prominent disabled character and just making her able again.
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
This is also the comic book series that literally just had a plot about bringing Batman's parents back from death with a Lazarus pit. If they don't want Alfred's death to be permanent, it won't be.
sometimes the status quo does change. Granted less so now that its become a mantra between artists and fans that comics never really change but it does happen. Lets all hold hands a believe.
maybe if we clap our hands the bulter will stay dead.
This is also the comic book series that literally just had a plot about bringing Batman's parents back from death with a Lazarus pit. If they don't want Alfred's death to be permanent, it won't be.
Don't worry, Bruce will just sell his happiness / marriage to Catwoman to the devil in exchange for bringing back Alfred.
very tired of killing off a character as a reason for a status quo change in comics. it actually makes it feel more stagnant to me because the implication is that death is the only thing that could change things, no one can move on their own
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Werewolf2000adSuckers, I know exactly what went wrong.Registered Userregular
Remember when we were told there was something big King had to get approval for, and we all assumed it was Batman and Catwoman finally getting married for real?
very tired of killing off a character as a reason for a status quo change in comics. it actually makes it feel more stagnant to me because the implication is that death is the only thing that could change things, no one can move on their own
yeah I think it's kind of wild to suggest that in order to move on from trauma, you need newer, fresher trauma. People move past things without people dying
Has there ever been a status quo change in one of the big 2 comic companies that has actually stuck? I can't think of any.
Growing up the touchstone was always "Bucky stays dead" but that obviously changed.
I don't even necessarily mean that as a criticism. I just think the nature of the industry and writer turn-over makes maintaining a status quo (esp a new one) almost impossible.
Status quo changes all the time. Maintaining a status quo is impossible as it keeps changing.
Eh, I don't think that's really what I'm getting at. I'm talking fundamental changes to a narrative the way you see in a lot of creator-owned projects. I'm not talking about the X-Men moving to Australia.
My point being, when you don't have pre-plotted narrative that goes from beginning to end it seems like a difficult thing to do as it requires control.
It's hard to say as most of the recent changes are too recent to say whether they've made a real change to the status quo or if they're destined for the dustbin as soon as whatever force behind them dissipates or a new writer gets a hold of them.
Red Hood would be a successful status quo change. Damien too. Batman is now a dad.
If you ignore the "real change" qualifier then comics are constantly changing all the time. If you include the qualifier then comics still change, but you often can't tell until the moment is past. When you look back and go, "oh, that character or element hasn't been around forever? Wow, feels like it was there in the beginning."
Who knows, maybe there's a universe out there where Electric Blue and Red Superman stuck around.
I don't feel like Psylocke was a super established figure even by the time that change hit. She hit a level of mass awareness post-ninja transformation I don't think she had previously.
Like she'd been a character for quite some time coming in from Captain Britain etc. But I feel like she'd been on the fringes of the X-Men for a while even though she'd been there through some big arcs.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Instead of dying, maybe he just descends into the depths of a life threatening battle with depression and alcoholism?
Call me quick DC, this Whiskey in the Jarro idea has legs.
Jimmy Olsen #2 was hilarious but also proved Fraction has still got it when it comes to writing genuinely sweet emotional moments.
Jimmy is facing a bit of a identity crisis, as his latest stunt demolished a Metropolis landmark and is just the latest in a long line of very expensive fiascos. His brother, Julian, guilts him both over the damage he is doing to their city and the fact that he is a Pulitzer prize winning member of the Olsen family but is best known for being a goofball who causes mishaps and hijinks more than anything else
After this Jimmy films his latest video, unveiling SUPERMAN'S SECRET SUPER-POWERS
Then there is a montage of Jimmy's wacky, costly, misadventures (with a few shots of him being a serious journalist including him pretty battered and bruised with Lois out on war correspondence) and he rethinks
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JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
Trying to read New Super-Man through the collected editions, and I've hit a weird snag
It looks like #19 is just... not collected anywhere?
Volume 3 says it collects #13-18
And then there's a title change to New Super-Man and the Justice League of China, but it keeps the numbering
And that volume starts with #20
That can't be right, can it?
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
G. Willow Wilson is leaving Wonder Woman with November's issue, making her run about 20 issues long
She is leaving to do a "bucket-list dream project" which is good, but still a bummer. Her Wonder Woman was really good and underappreciated. It managed to have fun fantasy adventures alongside some commentary on the current state of America as well as giving prominent spotlights to LGBTQ couples and bringing in a non-binary character as part of Diana's supporting cast.
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Werewolf2000adSuckers, I know exactly what went wrong.Registered Userregular
Trying to read New Super-Man through the collected editions, and I've hit a weird snag
It looks like #19 is just... not collected anywhere?
Volume 3 says it collects #13-18
And then there's a title change to New Super-Man and the Justice League of China, but it keeps the numbering
And that volume starts with #20
That can't be right, can it?
Number 19 appears to have been a left over fill-in issue, so they may well just not have bothered to collect it.
What... does that mean?
my guess would be an issue that wasn't part of the larger story, often because the writer or artist needed an extra month so they got someone to do a one-shot side story to fill time
like the issue of Ultimate Spider-Man where Peter and Wolverine switch bodies for a day
Trying to read New Super-Man through the collected editions, and I've hit a weird snag
It looks like #19 is just... not collected anywhere?
Volume 3 says it collects #13-18
And then there's a title change to New Super-Man and the Justice League of China, but it keeps the numbering
And that volume starts with #20
That can't be right, can it?
Number 19 appears to have been a left over fill-in issue, so they may well just not have bothered to collect it.
What... does that mean?
my guess would be an issue that wasn't part of the larger story, often because the writer or artist needed an extra month so they got someone to do a one-shot side story to fill time
like the issue of Ultimate Spider-Man where Peter and Wolverine switch bodies for a day
That was by Bendis and Bagley too, if I recall
It was just a goofy 2 parter Bendis was dared to do by an assistant editor, if I remember right
Posts
Oh, and a mask with... with two eye holes...?
Sir....”
It also has a pretty rad swerve I did not see coming
Except
Turns out the United Planets are founded by Jon, not Clark
While I'm not happy about Alfred getting killed, I don't think there has been a lot of stories with batman without Alfred?
"Ride or Die" confirmed Dominic Toretto, as they took off to find the Dragon Balls in hopes of reviving their friend Sonic
Like you said, Alfred has been an ever-present, well, presence in the Batman Family for basically as long as I've been alive and even well before that
I am okay with them exploring what Batman's world looks like without him, and having Bane prove his threats aren't idle is as good a way as any
Having it be done in the main DCU is basically the only way it would be actually interesting at this point
The last time I can find Alfred being completely off the board is in 1964 and that only lasted a few issues
Alfred is an outstanding character and I love him dearly but over 50 years of being around is a pretty long run
Alfred is the only thing in his life that ties him directly to his parents, what with Alfred working for them and then acting as Bruce's surrogate father after their death.
By taking Alfred out of the equation (and having Bruce defeat Flashpoint Thomas, which appears to be the endgame of the run judging from issue 83's cover) he is leaving the book with a Bruce Wayne who has literally defeated his past, has lost his second father who was also a direct connection to his parents and is embracing life with someone else in Catwoman which is
A pretty good status quo shift
I think
But they are just things
Alfred is a living, breathing tether to his childhood and his parents and an incredibly huge influence on Bruce's life.
There are other, smaller, touchstones (like Gordon helping kid Bruce after the murder in some continuities or Leslie Thompkins knowing Bruce since he was a child after their murder) but absolutely none of them are as prominent and constant of a reminder as Alfred is.
Jason Todd should have stayed dead. Instead of a reminder of how fucked up having a Robin actually is, it's just a blip like taking a prominent disabled character and just making her able again.
Cyborg Alfred
Teen Alfred
Black Alfred
And fuck, uh, the fourth one? The Last Son of... England?
EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
Growing up the touchstone was always "Bucky stays dead" but that obviously changed.
I don't even necessarily mean that as a criticism. I just think the nature of the industry and writer turn-over makes maintaining a status quo (esp a new one) almost impossible.
Eh, I don't think that's really what I'm getting at. I'm talking fundamental changes to a narrative the way you see in a lot of creator-owned projects. I'm not talking about the X-Men moving to Australia.
My point being, when you don't have pre-plotted narrative that goes from beginning to end it seems like a difficult thing to do as it requires control.
Red Hood would be a successful status quo change. Damien too. Batman is now a dad.
If you ignore the "real change" qualifier then comics are constantly changing all the time. If you include the qualifier then comics still change, but you often can't tell until the moment is past. When you look back and go, "oh, that character or element hasn't been around forever? Wow, feels like it was there in the beginning."
Who knows, maybe there's a universe out there where Electric Blue and Red Superman stuck around.
Like she'd been a character for quite some time coming in from Captain Britain etc. But I feel like she'd been on the fringes of the X-Men for a while even though she'd been there through some big arcs.
Instead of dying, maybe he just descends into the depths of a life threatening battle with depression and alcoholism?
Call me quick DC, this Whiskey in the Jarro idea has legs.
Soooo many legs.
After this Jimmy films his latest video, unveiling SUPERMAN'S SECRET SUPER-POWERS
Then there is a montage of Jimmy's wacky, costly, misadventures (with a few shots of him being a serious journalist including him pretty battered and bruised with Lois out on war correspondence) and he rethinks
It looks like #19 is just... not collected anywhere?
Volume 3 says it collects #13-18
And then there's a title change to New Super-Man and the Justice League of China, but it keeps the numbering
And that volume starts with #20
That can't be right, can it?
well then
She is leaving to do a "bucket-list dream project" which is good, but still a bummer. Her Wonder Woman was really good and underappreciated. It managed to have fun fantasy adventures alongside some commentary on the current state of America as well as giving prominent spotlights to LGBTQ couples and bringing in a non-binary character as part of Diana's supporting cast.
Number 19 appears to have been a left over fill-in issue, so they may well just not have bothered to collect it.
EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
What... does that mean?
my guess would be an issue that wasn't part of the larger story, often because the writer or artist needed an extra month so they got someone to do a one-shot side story to fill time
like the issue of Ultimate Spider-Man where Peter and Wolverine switch bodies for a day
It was just a goofy 2 parter Bendis was dared to do by an assistant editor, if I remember right