I really don't think that either Sega or general consumers are up to pay for the considerable development time and hardware power it takes to emulate either of those systems to any degree of quality.
You're exiting "mini-console" territory and entering "regular console" territory.
And with optical media-driven devices, there's a certain expectation for support of that media. In which case, you're basically doing a modernized hardware release of the earlier platform.
That being said, I would absolutely buy a 2020 Dreamcast, or even a 2020 Saturn, with HDMI out capability and other modern fixtures. I don't know how financially viable it would be, but I would absolutely buy one to replace my creaking, off-white plastic block. Sega might be better off marketing a hybrid device--"introducing, the Sega Fantasia, with internal storage, region-free Dreamcast and Saturn support, USB and original controller support!" at a premium, but god knows if that would sell well or not.
I really, really want it, but yeah, maybe that's a giant hardware money pit.
Sony did it, granted they fucked it up but they did try.
I think that tells us a little more about the Saturn, which was technologically equivalent to the Playstation 1, than the Dreamcast. There's no way that a Dreamcast mini, for example, that can't play PSO I&II, doesn't disappoint a lot of people. It's also going to require a substantially meatier system-on-a-chip even if it didn't (this is not my area of expertise--last I checked, Dreamcast emulation on a Raspberry Pi 3, for example, left a lot wanting).
If the Playstation mini hadn't tanked, there's a chance a Saturn mini would've been in the works? Considering how bad Sony screwed up it, though, I could see Sega making the same mistakes, or being afraid they would.
they didn't fuck it up due to technical issues or optical disk needs, they did half assed things like using euro versions of games that didn't do 60hz and other brain dead moves. that was face palming stupidity, not technical problems
Yup. The biggest hardware issue with the PlayStation Classic was probably the inclusion of the original style digital-only controllers; which was an unfortunate corner to cut, but perfectly understandable from a budget perspective (see: discussions about N64 and Dreamcast controllers with hypothetical minis). Pretty sure it was later shown that the hardware could run NTSC versions of those games with no extra slowdown? I'm not 100% on that, though.
It had more than enough storage space for what it set out to do, too - even allowing for multi-disc games (FF7, MGS).
All a Saturn would need to do would have good emulation (obviously the tricky part, but let's go with it), good controller replicas (which already exist! And the Saturn 3D pad is completely unnecessary, digital only is fine), and a good software line-up (Sega already showed they know how to get that right with the Genesis/MD Mini, and 20-25 good Saturn games is an easy ask). And slap a nice UI on it.
I'd be very surprised if they were afraid of making the same missteps Sony did; Sony largely phoned in their machine, but Sega already showed the effort and due care and attention needed to do one of these things well. The biggest issues are emulating the notoriously difficult hardware of the Saturn to a good standard on a relatively low-powered SoC, and then getting customers to actually buy the thing in enough numbers to make the exercise worthwhile. Both of which are major obstacles, unfortunately.
Probably. I'm in the category of the group that would buy it, but it's hard for me to picture that even well-executed it would sell well enough to justify.
Selling my Saturn back in the day became one of my biggest gaming regrets. I had a lot of fun with it and I'd love a mini; an original one would be much harder to justify now, especially since one of the games I had was Burning Rangers and that shit be expensive. Not Panzer Dragoon Saga expensive, granted, but still significantly-more-than-a-mini-on-its-own expensive.
The price of Saturn games is one of the reasons I think the market for it would want support for the libraries, but what do I know? Dreamcast games, on the other hand, are relatively cheap which would also make buying a device that could play them over one with a stored library a no-brainer for some. Not that functioning DC consoles are that expensive.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
Sega is teasing they are announcing something that will "rile up the game industry."
My guess is an android box in the Dreamcast form factor that plays old Sega games, and you can install like retroarch on there if you want or watch movies. Like what the Atari VCS is supposed to be, but it will actually come out.
Could justify a higher price point than typical mini consoles so they can include hardware that can actually run shit.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
Selling my Saturn back in the day became one of my biggest gaming regrets. I had a lot of fun with it and I'd love a mini; an original one would be much harder to justify now, especially since one of the games I had was Burning Rangers and that shit be expensive. Not Panzer Dragoon Saga expensive, granted, but still significantly-more-than-a-mini-on-its-own expensive.
Multiple ways of getting around needing original discs have been released for the Saturn this last year or so if you want to go that route.
Probably. I'm in the category of the group that would buy it, but it's hard for me to picture that even well-executed it would sell well enough to justify.
panzer dragon, dragon force, radiant silvergun, and nights are enough for me
Sega is teasing they are announcing something that will "rile up the game industry."
My guess is an android box in the Dreamcast form factor that plays old Sega games, and you can install like retroarch on there if you want or watch movies. Like what the Atari VCS is supposed to be, but it will actually come out.
Could justify a higher price point than typical mini consoles so they can include hardware that can actually run shit.
They're giving away their older games to anybody to play on the Internet for free! Just need to sign up with an account and get this free wristband to wear everywhere.
Probably. I'm in the category of the group that would buy it, but it's hard for me to picture that even well-executed it would sell well enough to justify.
panzer dragon, dragon force, radiant silvergun, and nights are enough for me
Would be nice to get some of the late games that not many played. Burning Rangers would be a huge get for me.
Probably. I'm in the category of the group that would buy it, but it's hard for me to picture that even well-executed it would sell well enough to justify.
panzer dragon, dragon force, radiant silvergun, and nights are enough for me
Would be nice to get some of the late games that not many played. Burning Rangers would be a huge get for me.
It was a good game, definitely fun. Not long, but very replayable, IIRC. I can't remember it well because I last played it over 20 years ago... but yeah, stick that and Panzer Saga on the hypothetical mini as the big rarity headliners (like Tetris on the Genesis/MD or Sapphire on the TG-16/PCE) and you're part way there.
I'd love to see Duke Nukem 3D and Quake on a Saturn mini; both fantastic ports, and you got a third game unlocked, the excellent Death Tank Zwei, if you had saves from both.
I don't know about quake and the like on the minis. I loved it on dreamcast but tjats because I could play online with the dreamcast more than the game itself.
Quake on the Saturn didn't even have multiplayer. (Don't recall if Duke did.) Didn't honestly matter, even if it was single-player only, it was otherwise a terrific port, and one that, notably, the PlayStation never got.
I'll probably be playing FF6 on my twitch with my buddy but if anyone wants to watch and chat in the chatroom that's cool. I'm not good and you might hear me talking to my friend but it's been neat.
Quake on the Saturn didn't even have multiplayer. (Don't recall if Duke did.) Didn't honestly matter, even if it was single-player only, it was otherwise a terrific port, and one that, notably, the PlayStation never got.
Duke Nukem 3D on Saturn had multiplayer I think. Though more to the point, Duke3D came out on PS1 too. It was just a much inferior version.
I'd say "contrary to what you'd expect", but really, there were quite a few sloppy PC to PS1 ports of the era. It's more so that the Saturn version is surprisingly well done.
EDIT: Ah, I misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about Duke Nukem 3D.
Synthesis on
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
The Saturn was also way better at 2D processing than the PlayStation was.
I really don't think that either Sega or general consumers are up to pay for the considerable development time and hardware power it takes to emulate either of those systems to any degree of quality.
You're exiting "mini-console" territory and entering "regular console" territory.
And with optical media-driven devices, there's a certain expectation for support of that media. In which case, you're basically doing a modernized hardware release of the earlier platform.
That being said, I would absolutely buy a 2020 Dreamcast, or even a 2020 Saturn, with HDMI out capability and other modern fixtures. I don't know how financially viable it would be, but I would absolutely buy one to replace my creaking, off-white plastic block. Sega might be better off marketing a hybrid device--"introducing, the Sega Fantasia, with internal storage, region-free Dreamcast and Saturn support, USB and original controller support!" at a premium, but god knows if that would sell well or not.
I really, really want it, but yeah, maybe that's a giant hardware money pit.
Sony did it, granted they fucked it up but they did try.
I think that tells us a little more about the Saturn, which was technologically equivalent to the Playstation 1, than the Dreamcast. There's no way that a Dreamcast mini, for example, that can't play PSO I&II, doesn't disappoint a lot of people. It's also going to require a substantially meatier system-on-a-chip even if it didn't (this is not my area of expertise--last I checked, Dreamcast emulation on a Raspberry Pi 3, for example, left a lot wanting).
If the Playstation mini hadn't tanked, there's a chance a Saturn mini would've been in the works? Considering how bad Sony screwed up it, though, I could see Sega making the same mistakes, or being afraid they would.
they didn't fuck it up due to technical issues or optical disk needs, they did half assed things like using euro versions of games that didn't do 60hz and other brain dead moves. that was face palming stupidity, not technical problems
Yup. The biggest hardware issue with the PlayStation Classic was probably the inclusion of the original style digital-only controllers; which was an unfortunate corner to cut, but perfectly understandable from a budget perspective (see: discussions about N64 and Dreamcast controllers with hypothetical minis). Pretty sure it was later shown that the hardware could run NTSC versions of those games with no extra slowdown? I'm not 100% on that, though.
It had more than enough storage space for what it set out to do, too - even allowing for multi-disc games (FF7, MGS).
All a Saturn would need to do would have good emulation (obviously the tricky part, but let's go with it), good controller replicas (which already exist! And the Saturn 3D pad is completely unnecessary, digital only is fine), and a good software line-up (Sega already showed they know how to get that right with the Genesis/MD Mini, and 20-25 good Saturn games is an easy ask). And slap a nice UI on it.
I'd be very surprised if they were afraid of making the same missteps Sony did; Sony largely phoned in their machine, but Sega already showed the effort and due care and attention needed to do one of these things well. The biggest issues are emulating the notoriously difficult hardware of the Saturn to a good standard on a relatively low-powered SoC, and then getting customers to actually buy the thing in enough numbers to make the exercise worthwhile. Both of which are major obstacles, unfortunately.
The bolded part seems to imply that this hypothetical Saturn mini would do without NiGHTS, and to me, that's almost unfeasible.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
I really don't think that either Sega or general consumers are up to pay for the considerable development time and hardware power it takes to emulate either of those systems to any degree of quality.
You're exiting "mini-console" territory and entering "regular console" territory.
And with optical media-driven devices, there's a certain expectation for support of that media. In which case, you're basically doing a modernized hardware release of the earlier platform.
That being said, I would absolutely buy a 2020 Dreamcast, or even a 2020 Saturn, with HDMI out capability and other modern fixtures. I don't know how financially viable it would be, but I would absolutely buy one to replace my creaking, off-white plastic block. Sega might be better off marketing a hybrid device--"introducing, the Sega Fantasia, with internal storage, region-free Dreamcast and Saturn support, USB and original controller support!" at a premium, but god knows if that would sell well or not.
I really, really want it, but yeah, maybe that's a giant hardware money pit.
Sony did it, granted they fucked it up but they did try.
I think that tells us a little more about the Saturn, which was technologically equivalent to the Playstation 1, than the Dreamcast. There's no way that a Dreamcast mini, for example, that can't play PSO I&II, doesn't disappoint a lot of people. It's also going to require a substantially meatier system-on-a-chip even if it didn't (this is not my area of expertise--last I checked, Dreamcast emulation on a Raspberry Pi 3, for example, left a lot wanting).
If the Playstation mini hadn't tanked, there's a chance a Saturn mini would've been in the works? Considering how bad Sony screwed up it, though, I could see Sega making the same mistakes, or being afraid they would.
they didn't fuck it up due to technical issues or optical disk needs, they did half assed things like using euro versions of games that didn't do 60hz and other brain dead moves. that was face palming stupidity, not technical problems
Yup. The biggest hardware issue with the PlayStation Classic was probably the inclusion of the original style digital-only controllers; which was an unfortunate corner to cut, but perfectly understandable from a budget perspective (see: discussions about N64 and Dreamcast controllers with hypothetical minis). Pretty sure it was later shown that the hardware could run NTSC versions of those games with no extra slowdown? I'm not 100% on that, though.
It had more than enough storage space for what it set out to do, too - even allowing for multi-disc games (FF7, MGS).
All a Saturn would need to do would have good emulation (obviously the tricky part, but let's go with it), good controller replicas (which already exist! And the Saturn 3D pad is completely unnecessary, digital only is fine), and a good software line-up (Sega already showed they know how to get that right with the Genesis/MD Mini, and 20-25 good Saturn games is an easy ask). And slap a nice UI on it.
I'd be very surprised if they were afraid of making the same missteps Sony did; Sony largely phoned in their machine, but Sega already showed the effort and due care and attention needed to do one of these things well. The biggest issues are emulating the notoriously difficult hardware of the Saturn to a good standard on a relatively low-powered SoC, and then getting customers to actually buy the thing in enough numbers to make the exercise worthwhile. Both of which are major obstacles, unfortunately.
The bolded part seems to imply that this hypothetical Saturn mini would do without NiGHTS, and to me, that's almost unfeasible.
Nights would be pretty much essential, I agree (throw in Christmas Nights too!), but personally I had no issue playing it with the standard controller. And it's pretty unlikely a hypothetical mini would include the 3D controller for one game.
By all means have one available as an accessory, though
I really don't think that either Sega or general consumers are up to pay for the considerable development time and hardware power it takes to emulate either of those systems to any degree of quality.
You're exiting "mini-console" territory and entering "regular console" territory.
And with optical media-driven devices, there's a certain expectation for support of that media. In which case, you're basically doing a modernized hardware release of the earlier platform.
That being said, I would absolutely buy a 2020 Dreamcast, or even a 2020 Saturn, with HDMI out capability and other modern fixtures. I don't know how financially viable it would be, but I would absolutely buy one to replace my creaking, off-white plastic block. Sega might be better off marketing a hybrid device--"introducing, the Sega Fantasia, with internal storage, region-free Dreamcast and Saturn support, USB and original controller support!" at a premium, but god knows if that would sell well or not.
I really, really want it, but yeah, maybe that's a giant hardware money pit.
Sony did it, granted they fucked it up but they did try.
I think that tells us a little more about the Saturn, which was technologically equivalent to the Playstation 1, than the Dreamcast. There's no way that a Dreamcast mini, for example, that can't play PSO I&II, doesn't disappoint a lot of people. It's also going to require a substantially meatier system-on-a-chip even if it didn't (this is not my area of expertise--last I checked, Dreamcast emulation on a Raspberry Pi 3, for example, left a lot wanting).
If the Playstation mini hadn't tanked, there's a chance a Saturn mini would've been in the works? Considering how bad Sony screwed up it, though, I could see Sega making the same mistakes, or being afraid they would.
they didn't fuck it up due to technical issues or optical disk needs, they did half assed things like using euro versions of games that didn't do 60hz and other brain dead moves. that was face palming stupidity, not technical problems
Yup. The biggest hardware issue with the PlayStation Classic was probably the inclusion of the original style digital-only controllers; which was an unfortunate corner to cut, but perfectly understandable from a budget perspective (see: discussions about N64 and Dreamcast controllers with hypothetical minis). Pretty sure it was later shown that the hardware could run NTSC versions of those games with no extra slowdown? I'm not 100% on that, though.
It had more than enough storage space for what it set out to do, too - even allowing for multi-disc games (FF7, MGS).
All a Saturn would need to do would have good emulation (obviously the tricky part, but let's go with it), good controller replicas (which already exist! And the Saturn 3D pad is completely unnecessary, digital only is fine), and a good software line-up (Sega already showed they know how to get that right with the Genesis/MD Mini, and 20-25 good Saturn games is an easy ask). And slap a nice UI on it.
I'd be very surprised if they were afraid of making the same missteps Sony did; Sony largely phoned in their machine, but Sega already showed the effort and due care and attention needed to do one of these things well. The biggest issues are emulating the notoriously difficult hardware of the Saturn to a good standard on a relatively low-powered SoC, and then getting customers to actually buy the thing in enough numbers to make the exercise worthwhile. Both of which are major obstacles, unfortunately.
The bolded part seems to imply that this hypothetical Saturn mini would do without NiGHTS, and to me, that's almost unfeasible.
Nights would be pretty much essential, I agree (throw in Christmas Nights too!), but personally I had no issue playing it with the standard controller. And it's pretty unlikely a hypothetical mini would include the 3D controller for one game.
By all means have one available as an accessory, though
Yeah the 3d controller isn't really needed. Also the Saturn had the OG space hulk game for hilarity and did street fighter games really well.
Well, the second Space Hulk game, Vengeance of the Blood Angels, and it was pretty good on the Saturn! The first Space Hulk from '93 was PC and Amiga only. It's a shame, I'd like a re-release of that on GOG or something.
Well, the second Space Hulk game, Vengeance of the Blood Angels, and it was pretty good on the Saturn! The first Space Hulk from '93 was PC and Amiga only. It's a shame, I'd like a re-release of that on GOG or something.
yeah oops! I also played VBA on the 3do though, it was good.
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
All these retro consoles! Anyone recommend a good HDMI splitter for at least 4 ports? More the merrier.
Any splitter should do, you're looking for something that does 1080 so there aren't many that won't work.
Just be aware that there are some splitters out there that cause hacked NES/SNES Classics to shut off. It seems to be the ones that aren't powered and pull in some power from the HDMI cable, but the system itself is very power sensitive and can't stay on with that power draw.
All these retro consoles! Anyone recommend a good HDMI splitter for at least 4 ports? More the merrier.
Any splitter should do, you're looking for something that does 1080 so there aren't many that won't work.
Just be aware that there are some splitters out there that cause hacked NES/SNES Classics to shut off. It seems to be the ones that aren't powered and pull in some power from the HDMI cable, but the system itself is very power sensitive and can't stay on with that power draw.
Oh, that would explain what happened yesterday when my wife was using the SNES and it shut off. That switch is powered, and the switch was still working, but the SNES wouldn't power on again until we moved it to a dedicated cable.
My TV died in the living room so I am using one in the bedroom. I have got so many video game consoles in the bedroom now it is ridiculous.
Mine are all in my bedroom, for reasons too numerous to go into. There are three current-gen consoles next to the TV, three minis in the cupboard under the TV which is also home to at least two old consoles, my DVR is behind the TV (noting after this lot that the TV only has two HDMI ports, so that gets interesting - the DVR goes through the Xbox One X's HDMI-in), two older consoles on a shelf across the room, one on a shelf above them, one on top of my Blu-ray shelf unit where my Spectrum Next also lives when it's not hooked up, and two handheld consoles on a table next to the bed. My laptop lives in a lap tray either on or next to the bed on top of (!) an old laptop, and there are two more even older laptops in a drawer.
Now I write it out like that it makes me realise just how much of a chaotic mess it all is
Posts
Yup. The biggest hardware issue with the PlayStation Classic was probably the inclusion of the original style digital-only controllers; which was an unfortunate corner to cut, but perfectly understandable from a budget perspective (see: discussions about N64 and Dreamcast controllers with hypothetical minis). Pretty sure it was later shown that the hardware could run NTSC versions of those games with no extra slowdown? I'm not 100% on that, though.
It had more than enough storage space for what it set out to do, too - even allowing for multi-disc games (FF7, MGS).
All a Saturn would need to do would have good emulation (obviously the tricky part, but let's go with it), good controller replicas (which already exist! And the Saturn 3D pad is completely unnecessary, digital only is fine), and a good software line-up (Sega already showed they know how to get that right with the Genesis/MD Mini, and 20-25 good Saturn games is an easy ask). And slap a nice UI on it.
I'd be very surprised if they were afraid of making the same missteps Sony did; Sony largely phoned in their machine, but Sega already showed the effort and due care and attention needed to do one of these things well. The biggest issues are emulating the notoriously difficult hardware of the Saturn to a good standard on a relatively low-powered SoC, and then getting customers to actually buy the thing in enough numbers to make the exercise worthwhile. Both of which are major obstacles, unfortunately.
Steam | XBL
Steam | XBL
My guess is an android box in the Dreamcast form factor that plays old Sega games, and you can install like retroarch on there if you want or watch movies. Like what the Atari VCS is supposed to be, but it will actually come out.
Could justify a higher price point than typical mini consoles so they can include hardware that can actually run shit.
Multiple ways of getting around needing original discs have been released for the Saturn this last year or so if you want to go that route.
They're giving away their older games to anybody to play on the Internet for free! Just need to sign up with an account and get this free wristband to wear everywhere.
Steam: betsuni7
Would be nice to get some of the late games that not many played. Burning Rangers would be a huge get for me.
I'll get it on Steam, pass on all things switch
Yes, but no Saga, which we'll never get because god/fate hates me.
I feel you pain. I bought Panzer Dragoon Orta digitally, and wouldn't you know it, it was on Game Pass not long after.
(OK, so not exactly like your pain.)
It was a good game, definitely fun. Not long, but very replayable, IIRC. I can't remember it well because I last played it over 20 years ago... but yeah, stick that and Panzer Saga on the hypothetical mini as the big rarity headliners (like Tetris on the Genesis/MD or Sapphire on the TG-16/PCE) and you're part way there.
I'd love to see Duke Nukem 3D and Quake on a Saturn mini; both fantastic ports, and you got a third game unlocked, the excellent Death Tank Zwei, if you had saves from both.
Steam | XBL
Steam | XBL
Selling Board Games for Medical Bills
First person shooter that apparently has Metroidvania elements. Apparently it's slightly different from the PS1 version.
I only ever played it to get access to Death Tank Zwei.
My Backloggery
Duke Nukem 3D on Saturn had multiplayer I think. Though more to the point, Duke3D came out on PS1 too. It was just a much inferior version.
I'd say "contrary to what you'd expect", but really, there were quite a few sloppy PC to PS1 ports of the era. It's more so that the Saturn version is surprisingly well done.
EDIT: Ah, I misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about Duke Nukem 3D.
Oh yeah, Powerslave (obvious Iron Maiden reference is obvious) was the other way to get Death Tank Zwei. I forgot about that.
This conversation is REALLY making me want a Saturn mini.
Steam | XBL
The bolded part seems to imply that this hypothetical Saturn mini would do without NiGHTS, and to me, that's almost unfeasible.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Nights would be pretty much essential, I agree (throw in Christmas Nights too!), but personally I had no issue playing it with the standard controller. And it's pretty unlikely a hypothetical mini would include the 3D controller for one game.
By all means have one available as an accessory, though
Steam | XBL
Yeah the 3d controller isn't really needed. Also the Saturn had the OG space hulk game for hilarity and did street fighter games really well.
Steam | XBL
Selling Board Games for Medical Bills
yeah oops! I also played VBA on the 3do though, it was good.
Any splitter should do, you're looking for something that does 1080 so there aren't many that won't work.
Just be aware that there are some splitters out there that cause hacked NES/SNES Classics to shut off. It seems to be the ones that aren't powered and pull in some power from the HDMI cable, but the system itself is very power sensitive and can't stay on with that power draw.
My Backloggery
Switch it is!
Selling Board Games for Medical Bills
Oh, that would explain what happened yesterday when my wife was using the SNES and it shut off. That switch is powered, and the switch was still working, but the SNES wouldn't power on again until we moved it to a dedicated cable.
Mine are all in my bedroom, for reasons too numerous to go into. There are three current-gen consoles next to the TV, three minis in the cupboard under the TV which is also home to at least two old consoles, my DVR is behind the TV (noting after this lot that the TV only has two HDMI ports, so that gets interesting - the DVR goes through the Xbox One X's HDMI-in), two older consoles on a shelf across the room, one on a shelf above them, one on top of my Blu-ray shelf unit where my Spectrum Next also lives when it's not hooked up, and two handheld consoles on a table next to the bed. My laptop lives in a lap tray either on or next to the bed on top of (!) an old laptop, and there are two more even older laptops in a drawer.
Now I write it out like that it makes me realise just how much of a chaotic mess it all is
Steam | XBL
Personally, I never liked the Game Gear, but that's...cool?
edit: article on it at The Verge: https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/2/21278762/sega-game-gear-micro-revealed-price-release-date
My Backloggery
That's why it's so small. They wanted it to be authentically useless, but battery tech was too good for the battery life to be the problem.