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There is no such thing as a moral or immoral [book] thread

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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    webguy20 wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    I understand why he had to switch away from Bob as the narrator, both for the story and for his own sake, but I don't love any of the non-Bob narrated books.

    That being said The Delirium Brief is very much a Bob book and also is very very good and there's a new one coming out soon so now's the right time to read it.

    What Stross is doing with The Laundry Files does make me wonder how Jim Butcher's going to deal with what he's setting up in The Dresden Files. They had a similar problem of events in their fictional worlds building towards some kind of apocalypse and Stross ran straight into it and turned it up to 11, I don't know if Butcher can or will do the same thing .

    Stross has stated a few times that if you're writing a series of books promising the Cthullu Singularity/Apocalypse you have to deliver on it. Which really doesn't make me hopeful for a happy ending at all.

    Well,
    the discussions with the SA that are alluded to in Delirium Brief suggest that while happy is off the table, something better than "enslaved by evil gods" might be possible.

    Isn't the new book due out soon? It's another US centric one I believe?

    Out like two weeks ago. It definitely involves the US.

    Vague description:
    Is Mhari a bad enough dude to rescue the President?

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    webguy20 wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    I understand why he had to switch away from Bob as the narrator, both for the story and for his own sake, but I don't love any of the non-Bob narrated books.

    That being said The Delirium Brief is very much a Bob book and also is very very good and there's a new one coming out soon so now's the right time to read it.

    What Stross is doing with The Laundry Files does make me wonder how Jim Butcher's going to deal with what he's setting up in The Dresden Files. They had a similar problem of events in their fictional worlds building towards some kind of apocalypse and Stross ran straight into it and turned it up to 11, I don't know if Butcher can or will do the same thing .

    Stross has stated a few times that if you're writing a series of books promising the Cthullu Singularity/Apocalypse you have to deliver on it. Which really doesn't make me hopeful for a happy ending at all.

    Well,
    the discussions with the SA that are alluded to in Delirium Brief suggest that while happy is off the table, something better than "enslaved by evil gods" might be possible.

    Isn't the new book due out soon? It's another US centric one I believe?

    It just came out! It's the one we're discussing :D

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    I understand why he had to switch away from Bob as the narrator, both for the story and for his own sake, but I don't love any of the non-Bob narrated books.

    That being said The Delirium Brief is very much a Bob book and also is very very good and there's a new one coming out soon so now's the right time to read it.

    What Stross is doing with The Laundry Files does make me wonder how Jim Butcher's going to deal with what he's setting up in The Dresden Files. They had a similar problem of events in their fictional worlds building towards some kind of apocalypse and Stross ran straight into it and turned it up to 11, I don't know if Butcher can or will do the same thing .

    Stross has stated a few times that if you're writing a series of books promising the Cthullu Singularity/Apocalypse you have to deliver on it. Which really doesn't make me hopeful for a happy ending at all.

    Well,
    the discussions with the SA that are alluded to in Delirium Brief suggest that while happy is off the table, something better than "enslaved by evil gods" might be possible.

    So yeah, SPOILERS for the latest book:
    I have trouble reconciling that whole SA thread with the rest of the book where The Black Pharaoh runs circles around everyone and everything including the other Elder God involved. We've got multiple statements that He is aware of things he should absolutely not be aware of, is inhumanly clever and enjoys playing with people. I strongly suspect that the whole thread may just be a way of crushing our hopes and dreams.

    Stross has started on the bastard author trail with what happened to Pete. Anyway that resolves is going to be tragic and heartbreaking.

    Oh, one thing I was unclear on and since you've read it: What did Mhari do to Jonquil?
    Yeah, could be - hard to say, since the SA himself has also pulled some very nearly deus ex machina moves before (and may or may not be wholly human, a la Bob/Eater of Souls).

    Jonquil is, I assume, still in the elf internment camp where she was left after having her face and memories stolen.
    They are quickly running out of wholly human folks as the series progresses.

    On Jonquil on my initial read it was unclear if Mhari had PHANG'd her with her talk of "an app for that." With her duress on the topic of PHANG creation later in the book that felt really off. She struggled about Jim who is generally a good guy. Jonquil as a PHANG would be a hideous monster.
    Yeah I don't think she had Jonquil PHANG'd, just faceswapped and left in elf jail.

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    webguy20 wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    I understand why he had to switch away from Bob as the narrator, both for the story and for his own sake, but I don't love any of the non-Bob narrated books.

    That being said The Delirium Brief is very much a Bob book and also is very very good and there's a new one coming out soon so now's the right time to read it.

    What Stross is doing with The Laundry Files does make me wonder how Jim Butcher's going to deal with what he's setting up in The Dresden Files. They had a similar problem of events in their fictional worlds building towards some kind of apocalypse and Stross ran straight into it and turned it up to 11, I don't know if Butcher can or will do the same thing .

    Stross has stated a few times that if you're writing a series of books promising the Cthullu Singularity/Apocalypse you have to deliver on it. Which really doesn't make me hopeful for a happy ending at all.

    Well,
    the discussions with the SA that are alluded to in Delirium Brief suggest that while happy is off the table, something better than "enslaved by evil gods" might be possible.

    Isn't the new book due out soon? It's another US centric one I believe?

    It just came out! It's the one we're discussing :D

    Oh noooo i didn't realize that already read the spoiler! Guess i know what I'm doing this weekend.

    steam_sig.png
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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Shit. I didn't realize. The last book ended on a WTF moment too!

    Steam ID: Webguy20
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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Jedoc wrote: »
    It's been a while since the book club has done fiction, so for our December meeting we're reading Krampus: The Yule Lord by Brom.

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    This will be in addition to the annual celebration of Dreck the Halls: Cheer and Loathing Gripeapalooza '018, where we look back over the worst books we read this year and mercilessly drag them.

    I think my loser this year is Dear Girls Above Me, apparently based on the Twitter feed of the same name. I think the author was going for kind of a self-deprecating David Sedaris thing where you criticize others in a way that makes you the butt of the joke, but I don't think you can do self-deprecating if you haven't presented any evidence that you're not just a weird mean prick. One star.

    Hey @Jedoc let me know if this is any good....

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    JedocJedoc In the scuppers with the staggers and jagsRegistered User regular
    Will do. I'm a couple of chapters in, and it seems promising so far. Krampus is shackled in a cave lamenting how Santa Claus stole his mantle as Yule Lord centuries ago and plotting his revenge. The main character appears to be a broke-ass loser who plays guitar in a local bar, and is about to get caught up in the conflict between Krampus and Santa.

    He's being introduced as sort of a living embodiment of a country song: Rich Asshole Done Stole Mah Woman and Now I'm a Useless Miserable Bastard. I think a great deal of the success of this book will depend on whether it's going to play the trope straight or twist expectations in interesting ways.

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    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    I found a book on what I was after. Really more of a pamphlet, it's only 45 pages long. But it's really good. Called Looking for the Lost Gods of England, talks about the various tribes that migrated to England and how they brought their mythologies, how those persevered after the country converted to Christianity. Like King Alfred traced his genealogy back to Woden (the English version of Odin) as many royal dynasties did. Then with conversion they added in some more generations to connect Woden up with Noah.

    It's fascinating to see how the old traditions and myths stayed around in Christianised or modernised versions. I guess that's not surprising at all to anyone who's into studying history but I've never really looked at it.

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    Forever ZefiroForever Zefiro cloaked in the midnight glory of an event horizonRegistered User regular
    Snowbear wrote: »
    I have been enjoying The Fifth Season by N. K. Jemisin. But boy does that book start rough and only get rougher. I appreciate what she doing with her Fulcrum characters

    I do have a question though
    While the perspective clearly changes characters from chapter to chapter, are they also changing time periods? Essun's chapters constantly reference the calamity that the book starts with. But Syenite ones make no mention of it. Which has been leading me to think that
    the person who caused it may be Alabaster?

    I'm really curious if you've read more

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    XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    I dreamed I watched a vorkorsigan anime and was so happy.

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    JedocJedoc In the scuppers with the staggers and jagsRegistered User regular
    Jedoc wrote: »
    Will do. I'm a couple of chapters in, and it seems promising so far. Krampus is shackled in a cave lamenting how Santa Claus stole his mantle as Yule Lord centuries ago and plotting his revenge. The main character appears to be a broke-ass loser who plays guitar in a local bar, and is about to get caught up in the conflict between Krampus and Santa.

    He's being introduced as sort of a living embodiment of a country song: Rich Asshole Done Stole Mah Woman and Now I'm a Useless Miserable Bastard. I think a great deal of the success of this book will depend on whether it's going to play the trope straight or twist expectations in interesting ways.

    It is with the deepest regret that I inform the book thread that the trope is being played straight.

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    tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2018
    Nice interview with George Saunders which perfectly encapsulates the hate-it-love-it-can't-look-away aspects of his writing, and makes me want to go pick up Lincoln in the Bardo, which I'd been procrastinating on because I sometimes have a kneejerk reaction against books that are instantly catapulted to the status of literary fiction*.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/nov/16/george-saunders-interview-booker-prize-short-story

    however I will never, ever, read Fox 8.

    * and speaking of, I've always hated that genre distinction that walls off some literature as being 'better' than others (and too often can fool people regularly shelved in it into thinking they're reinventing another genre). But also it definitely is a thing, in an "i know it when I see it" way. Finally found this definition via LanguageHat which has made me happier with the whole category:

    It’s sometimes fuzzily said that literary fiction gives you more on rereading, or that it stays with you, or that it’s “more profound”. That may be true, some of the time – but these things are more likely to be symptoms than necessary features. I’d suggest that the main identifying feature – and in this respect literary writing can and does compass and mingle with any number of other genres – is to do with complexity and depth of attention. That can be moral or psychological complexity – crudely, the goodies and baddies are less clearly delineated – but it can also be, and tends to be in the best work, allied to a greater attention to the form and to the sentence-by-sentence language itself. And where I say that it mingles with other genres, the point I mean to make is that (just like hats, or nanobots) its features can be found in any genre. You could make the case that Iain M Banks’s Culture novels are literary SF, that Sarah Waters has written literary historical thrillers, that Joseph Kanon or John le Carré write literary spy novels, that the metafictional quality of The Murder of Roger Ackroyd is a literary quality, and so on. The examples are numberless.

    A publishing acquaintance suggests an analogy with music: jazz is more complex than blues. It’s harder to play and harder to appreciate. That doesn’t mean there isn’t lots of good blues and lots of bad jazz. It doesn’t mean that jazz is an innately superior artform. It simply describes a formal difference between the two. Likewise, when we talk about a “literary novel” we usually mean something that demands and rewards close attention – though, as ever, there will be exceptions.

    tynic on
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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    Not quite sure if this is the right thread, I figured either this or history and saw this thread first.

    What would be a easy to perform Aristophanes play? I'm thinking of putting an Aristophanes play forward as an option for our drama group's next play. We mostly do pantomime but pantomimes are pants imo. I figure a Greek comedy would give some of the same low brow humour, satire of local people and issues (we tend to rewrite the pantos to make them relevant to our local area) and some members love musical segments, which the chorus is perfect for. I remember having great fun doing a hilarious read through of The Frogs in high school. Unfortunately The Frogs and many of his other plays are strongly tied to their time and place. We'd be wanting broader comedy. I'm still keen on The Frogs for nostalgia's sake but I'd like to explore other options.

    As I said we do rewrite the play a bit but it is usually just references and jokes and not the plot itself that we change.

    Or should i be looking at some New Comedy plays? Other playwrights?

    I have a feeling that the group won't go for a Greek play. but worst case scenario I at least will have some new reading for myself.

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    tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Lysistrata is fun for teens and you can get pretty raunchy. It's also easy to update if you want to make it more timely.

    The Birds is the only one I've ever seen actually performed, but nowadays it mostly comes off as a very weird fairy tale. Fun costumes, though

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    The Frogs and Lysistrata are the two Aristophanes I would generally consider worthwhile, but yeah, they're very tied to time and place, so if you're not into that, they're probably not a great idea.

    As far as wider reaching stuff goes, what exactly are you looking for with a show? What's the composition of your group, what's your audience? Are we just looking at public domain, or do you want modern recs as well?

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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    I was hoping for public domain as the cost of plays is something that is, well... accepted. But often we can be left feeling like we haven't got our money's worth.

    We usually do pantos because they're what makes money. The occasional murder mystery too but they don't make as much.

    The group is a local community group in our village. Ranging from teens to almost elderly. I'm not sure on what the identity of the group is. A lot of the newer people are into song and dance stuff We have a mix of new and old people as well as people from town and the village. I tend to stay on the edge as a props/scenery/lighting guy so I'm not directly involved in a lot of the productions

    But for the shows, being able to incorporate references or jokes about the local area or persons is a good way to get laughs (and Aristophanes usually has plenty of asides that are good opportunities for that kind of thing right?). And if kids are in the audience they like the physical stuff. A potential issue with a Greek play might be the risque humour which might mean less families in attendance. But jokes are fairly easy to adjust and most fly over kids heads.

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    I'd recommend some Wilde or maybe some Shaw?

    They're pretty funny, they've got name recognition to get butts in seats, they're not actively/openly lewd. They're not terribly physical, as written, but that can absolutely be injected by the director.

    I'll think on it some more and maybe talk to some more of my theater friends too though.

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    MrGrimoireMrGrimoire Pixflare Registered User regular
    I was just going to read a couple chapters of Good Omens before getting up.

    It's now 14.30, the book is finished and I really need food. Damn good book, though.

    Before this re-read, I discovered I'd misplaced my paper copy, so now I own it electronically as well.

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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    @Grey Ghost when you said you were given vorkorsigan books, which ones were you given?

    Have you enjoyed them?

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    Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    It's Cordelia's Honor, which is a compilation of the novels Shards of Honor and Barrayar, and one of the short stories
    I haven't hardly had any time to dig in so I'm very early on, but I'm enjoying it so far. Hope to make a lot of progress over Thanksgiving break

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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    It's Cordelia's Honor, which is a compilation of the novels Shards of Honor and Barrayar, and one of the short stories
    I haven't hardly had any time to dig in so I'm very early on, but I'm enjoying it so far. Hope to make a lot of progress over Thanksgiving break

    I enjoyed it as a kid, reread it as an adult.

    Have yet to read the earliest book in the universe but enjoyed falling free.

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    SnowbearSnowbear Registered User regular
    Snowbear wrote: »
    I have been enjoying The Fifth Season by N. K. Jemisin. But boy does that book start rough and only get rougher. I appreciate what she doing with her Fulcrum characters

    I do have a question though
    While the perspective clearly changes characters from chapter to chapter, are they also changing time periods? Essun's chapters constantly reference the calamity that the book starts with. But Syenite ones make no mention of it. Which has been leading me to think that
    the person who caused it may be Alabaster?

    I'm really curious if you've read more

    I wrapped it up earlier last week. Still very very good and I can't wait for the rest of the series to come in the mail. I was hoping to learn a bit more about the non human entities but I guess that's what the other books are for.

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    Forever ZefiroForever Zefiro cloaked in the midnight glory of an event horizonRegistered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Awesome! Now you realize why we couldn't say more.

    The other two books should definitely satisfy your curiosity on the non-human entities.

    edit - probably mostly the third book I think

    Forever Zefiro on
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    XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
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    Bluedude152Bluedude152 Registered User regular
    I just finished reading Simon Stalenhags The Electric State!

    I didnt think what amounts to a horror story about VR would be any good but I sure was wrong!

    That was....upsetting!!!

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    JedocJedoc In the scuppers with the staggers and jagsRegistered User regular
    Oh hey, my hold on The Last Wish came through right before my Thanksgiving road trip. Guess it's time to see what this Witcher fellow is all about when he's not in my computer.

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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    I just finished reading Simon Stalenhags The Electric State!

    I didnt think what amounts to a horror story about VR would be any good but I sure was wrong!

    That was....upsetting!!!

    There are enough terrigood late night sci fi movies to convince me this has merit. I already track pubg mobile dots on the horizon after playing for a while, i cannot imagine what full vr would do to you after a few sessions.

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    Muddy WaterMuddy Water Quiet Batperson Registered User regular
    He's about some pretty engrossing shit, I tells ya!

    I still have to start Time of Contempt.

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    Bluedude152Bluedude152 Registered User regular
    I
    I just finished reading Simon Stalenhags The Electric State!

    I didnt think what amounts to a horror story about VR would be any good but I sure was wrong!

    That was....upsetting!!!

    There are enough terrigood late night sci fi movies to convince me this has merit. I already track pubg mobile dots on the horizon after playing for a while, i cannot imagine what full vr would do to you after a few sessions.

    His concept is less “You are in a virtual world!!!” and more “putting on this helmet transmits your mind somehwere else for entertainment and connects it to the other minds present

    And then they accidentally become a hive mind

    That starts building thing
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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    Jedoc wrote: »
    Oh hey, my hold on The Last Wish came through right before my Thanksgiving road trip. Guess it's time to see what this Witcher fellow is all about when he's not in my computer.

    I liked that book!

    though I will warn you, the person who translated it has got some real strange notions about how we use the word "shitty" in English

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    RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    I
    I just finished reading Simon Stalenhags The Electric State!

    I didnt think what amounts to a horror story about VR would be any good but I sure was wrong!

    That was....upsetting!!!

    There are enough terrigood late night sci fi movies to convince me this has merit. I already track pubg mobile dots on the horizon after playing for a while, i cannot imagine what full vr would do to you after a few sessions.

    His concept is less “You are in a virtual world!!!” and more “putting on this helmet transmits your mind somehwere else for entertainment and connects it to the other minds present

    And then they accidentally become a hive mind

    That starts building thing
    k87653cg5w0k.jpeg

    There was a ben10 epsiode involving this that got morbid terror and childish humor mixed together.
    highbreed deep cover operative wakes up to discover that his people lost the war, really they enacted a cease fire and released their slaves.

    So they fire up a mind control device that activates former prisoners nearby and hive minds them intoa giant organic golem to make boom boom at a nuclear power plant.

    Ben gets his highbreed friend to reveal the truth and deep cover operative sacrifices himself to stop the weapon.

    In writing that, i realized that all the prisoners were implanted with triggers just incase they were needed for bombs.

    RoyceSraphim on
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    hatedinamericahatedinamerica Registered User regular
    Finally decided to check out this N.K. Jemisin person. Four chapters into The Fifth Season and, yeah, I think I'm gonna like this.

    The uh first person stuff is weird but I'm getting used to it. I've never had a book address me as if I were one of it's characters before.

    The world is very interesting and I'm excited to learn more.

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Finally decided to check out this N.K. Jemisin person. Four chapters into The Fifth Season and, yeah, I think I'm gonna like this.

    The uh first person stuff is weird but I'm getting used to it. I've never had a book address me as if I were one of it's characters before.

    The world is very interesting and I'm excited to learn more.

    The second person stuff in Essun's chapters is a little weird but I felt it really enhanced the sense of complete dissociation from self that someone in that situation would feel.

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Charles Stross wrote an entire book (and a sequel) in second person and while it's a good book it makes it kind of awkward to read.

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    hatedinamericahatedinamerica Registered User regular
    Ah, is that the infamous second person perspective I've heard tales of? Never seen it in action before I don't think.

    I was listening on the way to work this morning and the narrator is all "you feel" this and "you do" that, and I'm like, motherfucker, quit telling what I am and how I feel. You don't know me!

    I may be too contrarian for it, we shall see. :P

    It's certainly interesting.

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    Librarian's ghostLibrarian's ghost Librarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSpork Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    I couldn’t handle second person. I’ve read a few first person, present tense books and they always annoy me.

    Librarian's ghost on
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    shalmeloshalmelo sees no evil Registered User regular
    I couldn’t handle second person. I’ve read a few first person, present tense books and they always annoy me.

    I haven't read anything in second person longer than a short story, but this is reminding me of Then We Came to the End by Joshua Ferris, which is written in first person plural. The We in the title is the narrator.

    The protagonist(s) are the office of a failing ad agency in 2000-ish, just as the first dot-com bubble is bursting. There are lots of individual characters, but they're only named in moments where they temporarily stand out from the herd, or when they're separated from it. When the layoffs inevitably hit, you feel them differently - the collective narrator is diminished, like a leper starting to lose toes. The perspective took a little getting used to, but it rang true, in a late capitalist corporate groupthink sort of way. Recommended if you like: workplace black comedy that goes light on the cynicism.

    Steam ID: Shalmelo || LoL: melo2boogaloo || tweets
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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Not For Nothing by Stephen Graham Jones and The Diver's Clothes Lie Empty by Vendela Vida are both very good books that utilize second person perspective.

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    SnowbearSnowbear Registered User regular
    As someone who just finished Fifth Season. There's a reason for the 2nd person

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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Fifth Season spoilers
    Did anyone else just immediately glom onto the time skips in the story? I felt like that was nicely handled, but also obvious without needing to be immediately spelled out.

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    ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Fifth Season spoilers
    Did anyone else just immediately glom onto the time skips in the story? I felt like that was nicely handled, but also obvious without needing to be immediately spelled out.

    More Fifth Season stuff (and only Fifth Season stuff, I haven't started book 2 yet)
    I pretty immediately realized they were time skips but it took me a bit to figure out that they were all the same character. I can't remember if I saw it before the Tonkee reveal or not.

    I really enjoyed the effect that it had though, like we're watching random debris swirl around a whirlpool before realizing that it's all from the same ship.

    I should really start book 2 soon, but damn if I don't have to read so much stuff for class as it is.

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