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Pathfinder: Kingmaker- Wrath of the Righteous out now!

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    HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Sycamore dungeon finished spoiler:
    Oh motherfucker I have to kill this little asshole again?

    Gnomes are the bedbugs of fantasy.

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    I'd been avoiding the dwarf companion because he went with the other party, I'm playing a good character, and my interactions with the undead elf were all "Ugh!"

    This was a mistake. There was something important that did not come through in my earlier interactions with him:
    He's Marvin the Android in dwarf form.

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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    @Phillishere

    Excellently put, and very, very true.

    Some of his campfire interactions are ... *chefkiss*.

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    BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    I can't wait to get Harrim. The other cleric you can get is terrible. He's a healbot in a game where healbots don't really work.

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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    I've been using Tristin because he can AoE Undead and had a few good heals and now I have a few offensive spells and he rocks asses

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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    He comes with the extra channels feat which is nice for topping the whole party off.

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    AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Clerics have a massive AoE heal that is near instant to cast and has a number of charges.

    Healbots work well enough I’d say.

    Oh, you can also heal downed party members too (with regular ol’ heal spells) and bring them back in the fight.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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    TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    And spontaneous casting means you never have to prepare heal spells; prepare more useful ones and convert as needed.

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    BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    I guess my issue is more that he's terrible at everything that isn't casting spells. It won't be a big deal in a few levels, but at level 3, he just isn't useful often enough. Also, he starts with a melee weapon even though he can't wear armour and doesn't get any sort of class-based bonus to make that work. I mean, you can just give him a crossbow or something, but his stats make him pretty bad at that, too.

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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Yeah I feel like I'm missing something with that archetype. They give up armor proficiency to be able to change domains, and get a bless ability? Doesn't seem worth it.

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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Also pro tip: don't put charge on Autocast. It made my Fighter and Barb just stand there for whole fights until I figured it out.

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    AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    captaink wrote: »
    Yeah I feel like I'm missing something with that archetype. They give up armor proficiency to be able to change domains, and get a bless ability? Doesn't seem worth it.

    In my mind I think of them like a Mage, but for Divine magic.

    That said, I still don't feel like the cons are worth the pros vs a regular old Cleric. Maybe I am missing something.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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    Vi MonksVi Monks Registered User regular
    Bucketman wrote: »
    McHoger wrote: »
    Hey. today's patch breaks spell selection for character creation/level ups. So you may not want to download it till the hotfix comes out.

    Ahh I was wondering what was happening when I leveled my wizard

    This appears to be fixed. I'm able to make a new wizard character just fine today, whereas I couldn't last night.

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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Vi Monks wrote: »
    Bucketman wrote: »
    McHoger wrote: »
    Hey. today's patch breaks spell selection for character creation/level ups. So you may not want to download it till the hotfix comes out.

    Ahh I was wondering what was happening when I leveled my wizard

    This appears to be fixed. I'm able to make a new wizard character just fine today, whereas I couldn't last night.

    Yeah, there was a patch last night at around 0000 Eastern.

    Don't ask how I know ...

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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Can you make party members? I like my two options ok, but I want a cleric whos better at ranged crossbowing as opposed to an in your face guy like Harrim

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    JormungandrJormungandr Registered User regular
    So can you only create one character (the main character) in this? Or is there also a system where you can create your own party members, either right away or later in the game? I dislike having to work around the characters that are available as companions when building a party, but it's not a deal breaker. I just can't seem to find that information anywhere for this game. (Which often means there isn't an option to create custom characters aside from the protagonist, but I figured I'd ask to be sure)

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    So can you only create one character (the main character) in this? Or is there also a system where you can create your own party members, either right away or later in the game? I dislike having to work around the characters that are available as companions when building a party, but it's not a deal breaker. I just can't seem to find that information anywhere for this game. (Which often means there isn't an option to create custom characters aside from the protagonist, but I figured I'd ask to be sure)

    There is definitely a "I can hire you some generic adventurers!" dude in the tavern, but I haven't explored just what that means. All of the companions have deep stories and interactions game events, environments, and each other, so it feels like I'd be walking away from a massive amount of content if I went the custom party route.

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    AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Yeah there is a woman in the Tavern (or trading post in early game) who allows you to hire your own hand crafted adventurers. It works just like character creation.

    I assume they start off with enough XP to level up to your level. I haven't tried this yet, but I assume this is the case as I have seen the cost of recruiting go up as I leveled up. At the trading post in the early levels I remember it costing 2k, now sometime and a handful of levels later it'd cost me 8k.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    You’ll meet someone early on who will allow you to hire “adventurers from far away who aren’t really busy with something else right now.”

    You get to create those character just like the main PC - but they lose out on character-specific quests and party banter, for obvious reasons.

    They’re also hella expensive.

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    JormungandrJormungandr Registered User regular
    Yeah, I generally try and use the provided voiced, interesting companions. In some games the companion availability does affect the choices you can make as a main character. For example, if there's no good tank type character in the first half of the game as a companion, there is some pressure to make your main character a tank. If I can make a tank myself as a side character that I can swap out for the tank when he shows up, that makes me happier. I'll probably mainly use the characters that come along, but this way I've got some flexibility, which I like. Thanks for answering so quickly!

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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    Awesome, thanks everyone! I'll pick this up and give it a go.

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    BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    Stay awhile, and listen!

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    BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Is there a place anywhere in the game that anyone has found to sort of...restart your characters? Like start them at level 1 to reset feats and stuff?

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    HellboreHellbore A bad, bad man Registered User regular
    Kamiro wrote: »
    So, normally, unidentified items get identified when I pick them up. But I just got two items that did not get identified automatically? Where do I go to get them identified?

    I think when you rest the party makes another Identify roll. Might be based on Knowledge(Arcana), so make sure you have someone with that high.

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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Oh thank fuck, they let you look at all available feats in the game so you can check to see if a dumb idea is going to pan out in advance.

    TOGSolid on
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    AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    Oh thank fuck, they let you look at all available feats in the game so you can check to see if a dumb idea is going to pan out in advance.

    Not just that, but while leveling it will highlight Feats and Spells that may be of use to the class and also highlight in red Feats that would likely not be very useful. As well as putting the useful ones at the top of the list and the useless ones at the bottom of the list.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Ok, I am supremely torn on my feat path for the Monster Tactician. On one hand I can go hard on enhancing the summons via augment summoning right at first level (thanks to rolling human) and then snag Superior Summoning for even more hilarious critter spam next. Alternatively, I could just use the summons as battlefield clutter used to trigger my teamwork feats, Attacks of Opportunity, and flanking bonuses and use my feats to enhance my weapon attacks. I have no idea how well either of these thing scale in Pathfinder, though.

    I'm kinda leaning towards the summons being disposable since the MT lacks the full casting power needed to make up for not taking advantage of my weapon power.


    EDIT: Do they let you replace spells as you level up like in tabletop?

    TOGSolid on
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    McHogerMcHoger Registered User regular
    My understanding is a Monster Tactician that leans into summoning is comically powerful. Your summons get all of your teamwork feats plus any summoning feats you take. I'm pretty sure there is one that gives you an extra monster for each spell.

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    AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    I know I praised the writing before, but man I gotta give them extra props on the quests.

    The number of times I've had a few seemingly completely unrelated quests that either ended up overlapping or simply having a common thread connecting them has been numerous and I love it.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    McHoger wrote: »
    My understanding is a Monster Tactician that leans into summoning is comically powerful. Your summons get all of your teamwork feats plus any summoning feats you take. I'm pretty sure there is one that gives you an extra monster for each spell.

    Yeah, Superior Summoning. I could get that at third level by rolling human to get Augment Summoning at level 1 and am seriously considering it. I'd be starting the game with a really pissed off doggo with a +4 STR and +4 CON buff, almost as if it was barbarian raging. Then at third I'll be summoning an absurdly big pack of extra pissed off critters. That would leave me with I think 7 more feats to goof off with over the course of 20 levels so I think I can still do the dumb idea I've got, it'd just all be delayed by three levels and that's the part I'm not 100% sure about since I'm not intimately familiar with how Pathfinder is balanced and how stuff scales. If it's anything like 3.0/3.5 then it's gonna be a caster fest towards the end but I've never actually played PnP Pathfinder.


    EDIT: Also, I can see why people find this game to be a bit daunting. If I wasn't already familiar with at least 3.0/3.5 then I'd be absolutely overwhelmed with all the crunchy mechanics. Thankfully I just need to get used to Pathfinder's differences which is nbd.

    TOGSolid on
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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    McHoger wrote: »
    My understanding is a Monster Tactician that leans into summoning is comically powerful. Your summons get all of your teamwork feats plus any summoning feats you take. I'm pretty sure there is one that gives you an extra monster for each spell.

    Yeah, Superior Summoning. I could get that at third level by rolling human to get Augment Summoning at level 1 and am seriously considering it. I'd be starting the game with a really pissed off doggo with a +4 STR and +4 CON buff, almost as if it was barbarian raging. Then at third I'll be summoning an absurdly big pack of extra pissed off critters. That would leave me with I think 7 more feats to goof off with over the course of 20 levels so I think I can still do the dumb idea I've got, it'd just all be delayed by three levels and that's the part I'm not 100% sure about since I'm not intimately familiar with how Pathfinder is balanced and how stuff scales. If it's anything like 3.0/3.5 then it's gonna be a caster fest towards the end but I've never actually played PnP Pathfinder.


    EDIT: Also, I can see why people find this game to be a bit daunting. If I wasn't already familiar with at least 3.0/3.5 then I'd be absolutely overwhelmed with all the crunchy mechanics. Thankfully I just need to get used to Pathfinder's differences which is nbd.

    This is 100 percent a niche nostalgia game for old-school Baldur's Gate fans, with all that entails. It's just that it is a rich and full one that is worth digging into if you are interesting in what it (and the larger genre) have to offer.

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    SyrdonSyrdon Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    If it's anything like 3.0/3.5 then it's gonna be a caster fest towards the end but I've never actually played PnP Pathfinder.
    Not sure on kingmaker, but PnP pathfinder absolutely turns in to a caster fest at high levels. Also, summons are good enough in PnP that the only reason not to lean in to them hard is that they slow the game down really badly. Given how kingmaker works, I actually expect them to be slightly better than PnP. Dropping even a low level summon near a caster can make their life pretty rough.

    That said, I have no actual experience with them (or anything else) at high levels in kingmaker.

    As an aside, flanking works weirdly in kingmaker. All you need is another entity attacking someone for them to be flanked, you do not need to be opposite the second attacker. The only mention I could find of that was on a loading screen tip, but testing it with the wizard/rogue hybrid you can get seems to bear it out (as an aside, ranged crit is nice but I wish I knew why it only worked with some of her spells. Could still be user error though).

    Syrdon on
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    TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    McHoger wrote: »
    My understanding is a Monster Tactician that leans into summoning is comically powerful. Your summons get all of your teamwork feats plus any summoning feats you take. I'm pretty sure there is one that gives you an extra monster for each spell.

    Yeah, Superior Summoning. I could get that at third level by rolling human to get Augment Summoning at level 1 and am seriously considering it. I'd be starting the game with a really pissed off doggo with a +4 STR and +4 CON buff, almost as if it was barbarian raging. Then at third I'll be summoning an absurdly big pack of extra pissed off critters. That would leave me with I think 7 more feats to goof off with over the course of 20 levels so I think I can still do the dumb idea I've got, it'd just all be delayed by three levels and that's the part I'm not 100% sure about since I'm not intimately familiar with how Pathfinder is balanced and how stuff scales. If it's anything like 3.0/3.5 then it's gonna be a caster fest towards the end but I've never actually played PnP Pathfinder.


    EDIT: Also, I can see why people find this game to be a bit daunting. If I wasn't already familiar with at least 3.0/3.5 then I'd be absolutely overwhelmed with all the crunchy mechanics. Thankfully I just need to get used to Pathfinder's differences which is nbd.

    This is 100 percent a niche nostalgia game for old-school Baldur's Gate fans, with all that entails. It's just that it is a rich and full one that is worth digging into if you are interesting in what it (and the larger genre) have to offer.
    Yeah, I rolled a character and did the first area and it's like riding a damn bike. I'm floored that all the dialogue seems to be voiced, and voiced well(!), too. Seeing all the awesome little in dialogue skill options is also super rad and I liked how stealing everything not nailed down actually had a repercussion already. Even out of the gate the characters all seem to have super distinct personalities and yea, the game is off to an awesome start. I am tempted to reroll, though, just because I forgot about armor penalties and it turns out the way I planned on playing results in starting with the best damn starting party ever which means I don't need the skill I have so a quick reroll to smooth out that minor min/max error will prolly payoff down the line.
    As an aside, flanking works weirdly in kingmaker. All you need is another entity attacking someone for them to be flanked, you do not need to be opposite the second attacker.
    Oooooh, ok, that explains how a Rogue was able to sneak attack me in the face. I'm going to have to adjust for that and make sure to prioritize any targets capable of SA.

    TOGSolid on
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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Syrdon wrote: »
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    If it's anything like 3.0/3.5 then it's gonna be a caster fest towards the end but I've never actually played PnP Pathfinder.
    Not sure on kingmaker, but PnP pathfinder absolutely turns in to a caster fest at high levels. Also, summons are good enough in PnP that the only reason not to lean in to them hard is that they slow the game down really badly. Given how kingmaker works, I actually expect them to be slightly better than PnP. Dropping even a low level summon near a caster can make their life pretty rough.

    That said, I have no actual experience with them (or anything else) at high levels in kingmaker.

    As an aside, flanking works weirdly in kingmaker. All you need is another entity attacking someone for them to be flanked, you do not need to be opposite the second attacker. The only mention I could find of that was on a loading screen tip, but testing it with the wizard/rogue hybrid you can get seems to bear it out (as an aside, ranged crit is nice but I wish I knew why it only worked with some of her spells. Could still be user error though).

    @Syrdon

    You can only crit on a spell if it has an attack roll; so if she's using a spell that just uses a save, then it can't crit.

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    AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Holy crap the seasons actually change?!

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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    HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    I, uh, I think they might want to look over the random encounter tables.

    Just had to reload an earlier save because I got a random encounter that consisted of two Elder Earth Elementals which are CR 11 monsters. My party level is 4.

    I don't think I even managed to damage one before getting mushed into the ground.

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    HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Word of advice on Thorn Ford near the beginning of the game
    Explore the entire map. It's far more productive than exploring the entire open portion of the world map and realizing you missed something. There's a bandit camp in the southeast of the Thorn Ford that is apparently possible to entirely miss if you follow the river and without it you can't advance the main plot.

    Not that I want those 7 hours back or anything >_<

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    SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    It's hard to say how effective high level summons are. In Pathfinder they go up to around CR14, which is not a big challenge on itself for a CR23 enemy (Which would be about the toughest fights in the game, max level +3). Still those are a lot of extra hp on the field.

    The 3 best teamwork feats do buff them a bit (+4 to hit, better crits, +1d6 sneak, +saves), Then there's one that gives AoOs if crits get confirmed (This relies on hitting a lot, the more you hit and confirm, the better this is), and with spells and a Bard they'd be stronger still (Perform, prayer, Haste, Communal Prot_Evil, Bless etcet. ). Of course you can give 2 frontliners the same feats and synergize more.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
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    Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    captaink wrote: »
    Yeah I feel like I'm missing something with that archetype. They give up armor proficiency to be able to change domains, and get a bless ability? Doesn't seem worth it.

    The Ecclesiothurge is basically there as the divine counterpart class needed for the Mystic Theurge, as you probably wouldn't want to use armor as one anyway due to arcanw spell failure. Tristian is basically set up to become an Ecclesiothurge/Empyreal Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge.

    I don't know how good he legitimately ends up being though.

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    PhasenPhasen Hell WorldRegistered User regular
    Anyone else get the feeling that the bug testing for this game was the last thing on the priority list? I couldnt change the hair color of my custom companion because it would dump me out if i tried. I have to hover around the level up button because if I click on the wrong area it will dump me out of the game. Enjoying the rest of the game just yeesh some of this stuff is ridiculous.

    psn: PhasenWeeple
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