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Pathfinder: Kingmaker- Wrath of the Righteous out now!

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Posts

  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    I don't think they use enough buffs on enemies, honestly.

    We need something like barkskin and permanent seamantle on even low level enemies on every goblin or kobold. Also for them be able to stack multiple sources of AC even if its the same type of bonus. Hopefully they can fix that in the next game.

    Dr. Chaos on
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    finnithGiantGeek2020
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I posted a review:

    Review link

    Ultimately I can't recommend this game to anyone, and I probably will not play games this company makes in the future unless I get really astounding reviews from folks who play it months after release.

    This game was too damn long, half of the game is just unforgivably not fun, the mythic paths have no payoff until Act V, and I reversed probably about 10-15 hours of gameplay throughout my run because of bugs and poorly marked quests and locations marked with active quests that had nothing for you to actually do there.

    Future games they make would have to have reviews stating that they stuck to the source game mechanics and just focused on what they do well, for me to bite off ever again. If there's a world map, or a galaxy map, or any kind of fucking map, I will not trust this studio to not make it unbearably painful to use. This was supposed to be the game they made after learning their mistakes from Kingmaker, and at this point I don't think they learned a single fucking thing.

    Honestly, as much as I'm enjoying myself, I can't help but feel like they even went a little backwards compared to Kingmaker in it's final version.

    The insane AC is the worst part. Kingmaker had some hair-pulling encounters that required significant thought and preparation to reliably get through them, but I don't recall a single encounter where I could stack literally every single buff I had on Ekun or Amiri or even Nok-Nok and still need to roll Nat 20s just to land a fucking hit. Spawn of Rovanog came close, but that was a bonus boss, not the main plot, and IIRC it more because of it constantly dispelling effects you had to reapply and having a high SR that made it difficult to land debuffs than nessisarily a need to stack every to-hit buff you could think of.

    But in Wrath, that is an all-to-common occurrence, especially if I want to bring someone other than Seelah to use her super smite (the one where she spends two uses to let everyone benefit from her smite evil against that target) or Sociel with the Community domain. Only two characters that can consistently make a hit on something other than a 20 is my PC with Finean's Brilliant Energy trait combined with magus' prescient blade, and Greybor, who is currently benefiting from a bug on a special belt that makes the +5 attack bonus he gets on kill a permanent bonus rather than one that only lasts until his next attack.

    The only reason I can think of about why they might do this is to compensate for Mythic Path abilities, but most mythic paths don't get those types of crazy bonuses, or at least not as early as most of the useless-to-try-anything-but-touch-attacks enemies start to show with regularity.

    Fake Edit: writing this made me realize something. A lot of the BS difficulty in Kingmaker came down on status effects or creature properties; debuffs, specific abilities, illusions etc that basically shut down your entire party if they caught you off-guard. And while it required way too much metagaming than it should have, you could prepare and counteract a lot of this stuff, and more often than not feel like a badass doing it. It Wrath it's mostly just brute force-type difficulty; enough AC to make physical attacks for most of the party functionally useless, enough to hit on their own attacks to make *your* AC functionality useless, enough Spell Resistance to make any offensive Spellcaster that doesn't have all the possible Spell Penetration feats and no more than 1-2 level in something that didn't give caster levels functionally useless, and so on. That IMO makes it something that's a lot harder to adapt to when it suprises ya.

    Foefaller on
    steam_sig.png
    ThawmusNyysjan
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Anyone got a link to that list of all the craftable "Fate of ..." equipment?

  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    The crusader army management stuff is anti-fun (I vastly preferred and enjoyed Kingdom management) but other than that, I'm enjoying it immensely and will probably rate it higher than Kingmaker in the end.

    So far, the mythic path stuff has been delivering and has got me looking forward to more playthroughs than I probably would have done for Kingmaker. For as much bullshit as the enemies throw at you, Lich has been extremely powerful in a way opponents haven't been able to compensate for so I'm definitely feeling the power fantasy and the slow gradual build up to finally getting that sweet transformation.

    Dr. Chaos on
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    Elvenshae
  • LorekLorek Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Anyone got a link to that list of all the craftable "Fate of ..." equipment?

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2608364853

    I think this one has them all?

    DanHibiki
  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Wendaug is playing me like a fiddle.
    "You'll take care of me, won't you?"

    <3

    Will be interesting to see where this goes since in about another hundred or so hours, I'll be missing equipment. Both emotionally and physically.

    Dr. Chaos on
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  • HellboreHellbore A bad, bad man Registered User regular
    Wendaug's
    funny in that she literally the only character that has a full redemption arc if you play your cards right. Everything about her persona is an act you can either reinforce or help her grow out of.

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Hellbore wrote: »
    Wendaug's
    funny in that she literally the only character that has a full redemption arc if you play your cards right. Everything about her persona is an act you can either reinforce or help her grow out of.
    She also - ironically - has better overall story resolutions for the mongrels than good boi Lann does.

  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Ember is the best companion though and it's not even close.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Ember is way too puppies, rainbows and unicorns for me. I bounced off her immediately.

    Pokemon GO: 7113 6338 6875/ FF14: Buckle Landrunner /Steam Profile
  • HellboreHellbore A bad, bad man Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Hellbore wrote: »
    Wendaug's
    funny in that she literally the only character that has a full redemption arc if you play your cards right. Everything about her persona is an act you can either reinforce or help her grow out of.
    She also - ironically - has better overall story resolutions for the mongrels than good boi Lann does.

    I really regret taking Lann over Wendaug, but the choice scene really makes it hard for a Good character to have a reason to choose the
    lying demon worshipping cannibal that swears that she won't betray you, despite her long list of previous betrayals, including one that happened less than five minutes ago

    ThawmusDonnictonElvenshaeBionicPenguinhtmEtiowsaElldrenKanaCorsiniTurambarMoridin889GiantGeek2020
  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Is the entirety of Act 4
    set in the midnight isles? Got a huuuuge amount of land still to cover back in the worldwound so I was surprised to see a whole nother kind of area introduced.

    Pokemon GO: 7113 6338 6875/ FF14: Buckle Landrunner /Steam Profile
  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Is the entirety of Act 4
    set in the midnight isles? Got a huuuuge amount of land still to cover back in the worldwound so I was surprised to see a whole nother kind of area introduced.

    Yes, it is.

    AspectVoid on
    PSN|AspectVoid
    Thawmus
  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Is the entirety of Act 4
    set in the midnight isles? Got a huuuuge amount of land still to cover back in the worldwound so I was surprised to see a whole nother kind of area introduced.

    Yes, it is.
    *long whistle*

    This is going to beat the total playtime for my first run through of Kingmaker easily. And thats saying something.

    Pokemon GO: 7113 6338 6875/ FF14: Buckle Landrunner /Steam Profile
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    Hellbore wrote: »
    Wendaug's
    funny in that she literally the only character that has a full redemption arc if you play your cards right. Everything about her persona is an act you can either reinforce or help her grow out of.

    aru
    desna will literally remove her demonness and allow her to dream and have actual mortal emotional connections
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Ember is the best companion though and it's not even close.

    she is a cinnamon bun and must be protected

    ElvenshaeHellboreThawmusEtiowsahtmBurnageTransporterAeolusdallas
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Hellbore wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Hellbore wrote: »
    Wendaug's
    funny in that she literally the only character that has a full redemption arc if you play your cards right. Everything about her persona is an act you can either reinforce or help her grow out of.
    She also - ironically - has better overall story resolutions for the mongrels than good boi Lann does.

    I really regret taking Lann over Wendaug, but the choice scene really makes it hard for a Good character to have a reason to choose the
    lying demon worshipping cannibal that swears that she won't betray you, despite her long list of previous betrayals, including one that happened less than five minutes ago

    I went with evil(Lich) first one and now good(Azata) on the other. So I picked both eventually. But the big thing is
    You can convince Wenduag over the course of the game to be less ruthlessly evil, even shifting her alignment to true neutral. (the method is a bit more subtle though, she doesn't respond to overtly [Good] options)

    You can also convince her to spare Lann during their duel, and Lann eventually joins as a companion in Act 5 if you do. So you eventually get both characters on your team.

    Far as I'm aware your only real options with Lann are to kill her because on Lann's path she has a complete breakdown and becomes totally irredeemable.

  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    The crusader army management stuff is anti-fun (I vastly preferred and enjoyed Kingdom management) but other than that, I'm enjoying it immensely and will probably rate it higher than Kingmaker in the end.

    So far, the mythic path stuff has been delivering and has got me looking forward to more playthroughs than I probably would have done for Kingmaker. For as much bullshit as the enemies throw at you, Lich has been extremely powerful in a way opponents haven't been able to compensate for so I'm definitely feeling the power fantasy and the slow gradual build up to finally getting that sweet transformation.

    From what I've read/heard, Lich is hands down the most powerful Mythic Path at the moment, even if you aren't able to combine spellbooks. And I believe only Aeon has a potentially bigger ongoing effect on the plot as you go through the acts.

    IIRC Angel is second if you are able to combine spellbooks with it. Otherwise, most of the other starting Paths definitely have bad (or at least, not favorable) ability or even class/build choices that can make the game harder than if you had made the "right" choice.

    steam_sig.png
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    The crusader army management stuff is anti-fun (I vastly preferred and enjoyed Kingdom management) but other than that, I'm enjoying it immensely and will probably rate it higher than Kingmaker in the end.

    So far, the mythic path stuff has been delivering and has got me looking forward to more playthroughs than I probably would have done for Kingmaker. For as much bullshit as the enemies throw at you, Lich has been extremely powerful in a way opponents haven't been able to compensate for so I'm definitely feeling the power fantasy and the slow gradual build up to finally getting that sweet transformation.

    From what I've read/heard, Lich is hands down the most powerful Mythic Path at the moment, even if you aren't able to combine spellbooks. And I believe only Aeon has a potentially bigger ongoing effect on the plot as you go through the acts.

    IIRC Angel is second if you are able to combine spellbooks with it. Otherwise, most of the other starting Paths definitely have bad (or at least, not favorable) ability or even class/build choices that can make the game harder than if you had made the "right" choice.

    Lich is the strongest caster in the game, which is pretty fitting considering. But hilariously they're supposed to be even stronger - there are apparently supposed to be level 10 spells that only Lich can access but they're bugged right now and not obtainable.

    Also Lich gets the strongest melee companion in the game as an exclusive.

    Donnicton on
    GiantGeek2020
  • htmhtm Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Ember is way too puppies, rainbows and unicorns for me. I bounced off her immediately.

    Ember is Sandal from Dragon Age.

    htm on
    ThawmusDanHibiki
  • HellboreHellbore A bad, bad man Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Hellbore wrote: »
    Wendaug's
    funny in that she literally the only character that has a full redemption arc if you play your cards right. Everything about her persona is an act you can either reinforce or help her grow out of.

    aru
    desna will literally remove her demonness and allow her to dream and have actual mortal emotional connections

    The difference to me is
    that Aru started her redemption without the player, and presumably would complete it on her own, just slower. Wendaug is completely player driven.

    ThawmusKanaMoridin889
  • htmhtm Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    aru
    desna will literally remove her demonness and allow her to dream and have actual mortal emotional connections

    I feel like Arue is purposefully designed to troll a certain sort of neckbeard. In Act 3…
    …she seems like the perfect wholesome waifu. Sure, she had a rough upbringing, but she’s sweet and pure now.

    Then you get to Act 4…
    …and it’s like her collective exes are half the population of Alushinyrra. Her “n-count” is off the charts. Also, back in the day, the shit she got up to makes Camellia seem like a sweet young woman who loves fencing and reading about Sarkorian history.

  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    The thing I couldn't stand with Aru was her bungling idioms.

    As an espionage expert.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • htmhtm Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    The thing I couldn't stand with Aru was her bungling idioms.

    As an espionage expert.

    I don’t think that’s incongruous: she’s been spying on demons, not humans.

    Elvenshae
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    Ember is great because she’s how the story and also hagiography of a saint or boddhisatva would really occur. She’s just somebody who wants to do good in the world and stories form around her

    ThawmusMoridin889
  • EtiowsaEtiowsa Registered User regular
    Yeah, Ember's awesome. She's not naïve or anything, she acknowledges that shit isn't ideal and half the time things won't work out for the best, but we should try anyway cuz what if it does? It would be great!

    BionicPenguinElvenshaeThawmusMoridin889Transporter
  • HellboreHellbore A bad, bad man Registered User regular
    I've heard that Ember was supposed to be the game's Oracle early in dev, but when they came up with Daeran decided to homebrew that odd Witch/Oracle hybid archetype that she has.
    Oracle to Saint seems like it fits much better than Witch even though it just as arbitrary.

  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Speaking of Daeran, is my shit bugged or is he unable to to do a full round action on purpose?

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Speaking of Daeran, is my shit bugged or is he unable to to do a full round action on purpose?

    It's his oracle penalty. First round of combat he starts staggered.

    KanaElvenshaeThawmusTurambarhtmMoridin889
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Hellbore wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Hellbore wrote: »
    Wendaug's
    funny in that she literally the only character that has a full redemption arc if you play your cards right. Everything about her persona is an act you can either reinforce or help her grow out of.
    She also - ironically - has better overall story resolutions for the mongrels than good boi Lann does.

    I really regret taking Lann over Wendaug, but the choice scene really makes it hard for a Good character to have a reason to choose the
    lying demon worshipping cannibal that swears that she won't betray you, despite her long list of previous betrayals, including one that happened less than five minutes ago

    I went with evil(Lich) first one and now good(Azata) on the other. So I picked both eventually. But the big thing is
    You can convince Wenduag over the course of the game to be less ruthlessly evil, even shifting her alignment to true neutral. (the method is a bit more subtle though, she doesn't respond to overtly [Good] options)

    You can also convince her to spare Lann during their duel, and Lann eventually joins as a companion in Act 5 if you do. So you eventually get both characters on your team.

    Far as I'm aware your only real options with Lann are to kill her because on Lann's path she has a complete breakdown and becomes totally irredeemable.

    Actually
    If you pass the Persuade check on the evil dialog choice, it will finally get into her head just how far gone she is and can actually be told to leave and not join your group without killing her, and like Lann if you picked her, she will become recruitable in Act 5 and actually stay loyal to you.

    Foefaller on
    steam_sig.png
  • htmhtm Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Speaking of Daeran, is my shit bugged or is he unable to to do a full round action on purpose?

    It's his oracle penalty. First round of combat he starts staggered.

    Minor Daeran spoiler:
    You can eliminate the penalty totally with Freedom of Movement. There’s even some boots fairly early in the game that grant Freedom of Movement, so you don’t have to hassle with actually casting it on him.

    DonnictonTurambarGiantGeek2020
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Hellbore wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Hellbore wrote: »
    Wendaug's
    funny in that she literally the only character that has a full redemption arc if you play your cards right. Everything about her persona is an act you can either reinforce or help her grow out of.
    She also - ironically - has better overall story resolutions for the mongrels than good boi Lann does.

    I really regret taking Lann over Wendaug, but the choice scene really makes it hard for a Good character to have a reason to choose the
    lying demon worshipping cannibal that swears that she won't betray you, despite her long list of previous betrayals, including one that happened less than five minutes ago

    I went with evil(Lich) first one and now good(Azata) on the other. So I picked both eventually. But the big thing is
    You can convince Wenduag over the course of the game to be less ruthlessly evil, even shifting her alignment to true neutral. (the method is a bit more subtle though, she doesn't respond to overtly [Good] options)

    You can also convince her to spare Lann during their duel, and Lann eventually joins as a companion in Act 5 if you do. So you eventually get both characters on your team.

    Far as I'm aware your only real options with Lann are to kill her because on Lann's path she has a complete breakdown and becomes totally irredeemable.

    Actually
    If you pass the Persuade check on the evil dialog choice, it will finally get into her head just how far gone she is and can actually be told to leave and not join your group without killing her, and like Lann if you picked her, she will become recruitable in Act 5 and actually stay loyal to you.

    Interesting, although
    you don't walk in on Lann in the middle of eating a tribemate, either. So it may have made the decision easier.

    Donnicton on
    Turambar
  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Is there any way to use metamagic on lv9 spells without resorting to a rod?

    Pokemon GO: 7113 6338 6875/ FF14: Buckle Landrunner /Steam Profile
  • TurambarTurambar Independent Registered User regular
    htm wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Speaking of Daeran, is my shit bugged or is he unable to to do a full round action on purpose?

    It's his oracle penalty. First round of combat he starts staggered.

    Minor Daeran spoiler:
    You can eliminate the penalty totally with Freedom of Movement. There’s even some boots fairly early in the game that grant Freedom of Movement, so you don’t have to hassle with actually casting it on him.

    He also synergizes well with the powerful defensive ring that makes you staggered, since he's staggered anyway

    Steam: turamb | Origin: Turamb | 3DS: 3411-1109-4537 | NNID: Turambar | Warframe(PC): Turamb
    htm
  • PotatoNinjaPotatoNinja Fake Gamer Goat Registered User regular
    Legend sure is a fun way to sidestep that whole "every enemy has 8 million AC" nonsense. Having a BAB of 35-40 does some work.

    Two goats enter, one car leaves
    BurnageGiantGeek2020
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Hellbore wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Hellbore wrote: »
    Wendaug's
    funny in that she literally the only character that has a full redemption arc if you play your cards right. Everything about her persona is an act you can either reinforce or help her grow out of.
    She also - ironically - has better overall story resolutions for the mongrels than good boi Lann does.

    I really regret taking Lann over Wendaug, but the choice scene really makes it hard for a Good character to have a reason to choose the
    lying demon worshipping cannibal that swears that she won't betray you, despite her long list of previous betrayals, including one that happened less than five minutes ago

    I went with evil(Lich) first one and now good(Azata) on the other. So I picked both eventually. But the big thing is
    You can convince Wenduag over the course of the game to be less ruthlessly evil, even shifting her alignment to true neutral. (the method is a bit more subtle though, she doesn't respond to overtly [Good] options)

    You can also convince her to spare Lann during their duel, and Lann eventually joins as a companion in Act 5 if you do. So you eventually get both characters on your team.

    Far as I'm aware your only real options with Lann are to kill her because on Lann's path she has a complete breakdown and becomes totally irredeemable.

    Actually
    If you pass the Persuade check on the evil dialog choice, it will finally get into her head just how far gone she is and can actually be told to leave and not join your group without killing her, and like Lann if you picked her, she will become recruitable in Act 5 and actually stay loyal to you.

    Interesting, although
    you don't walk in on Lann in the middle of eating a tribemate, either. So it may have made the decision easier.

    Fortunately for me I'm role-playing my character as a generally nice person but one who isn't going to take too much nonsense when you are fighting the apocalypse. So, he and wendaug get on great because she mainly is an ends justifies the means sort of evil.

    Honestly seeing her character arc is the main reason I'm still pushing through the game.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
    htm
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Honestly if there's a mod that just cuts AC's down and gives them HP instead I will install that shit in a heartbeat. And also gives me all the relics and lets me do decrees but says fuck off to the rest of the crusade shit. I do not care anymore gimme mods that are just plain cheats.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • LorekLorek Registered User regular
    This came up earlier in the thread when the game first came out, but it's been my favourite so far:
    https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderwrathoftherighteous/mods/40

    Basically just walking your army into the enemy army triggers an auto-win. I'm running the 0.1.4 version and never had a problem with it, despite the scary sounding stuff at the top of the description.
    This lets me do all the decrees and leave crusade-mode enabled for the mythic paths that require it, but never have to see the strategy combat screen ever.
    The only thing that leaves that's kind of annoying is now having to recruit units that I don't need to boost military exp.

    ThawmusDonnictonGiantGeek2020
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    Was just thinking, maybe Owlcat should do one or two smaller games by adapting some standalone adventures instead of a full adventure path.

    Especially if they ever switch to 2e. It would let them iterate / ramp up to being able to do a full adventure path without as many bugs or unfun parts of the game.

    Thawmus
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    If they did something like Dragon's Demand I'd be down.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    I'm down for whatever as long as they keep doing mythic paths.

    Pokemon GO: 7113 6338 6875/ FF14: Buckle Landrunner /Steam Profile
    htm
This discussion has been closed.