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Pathfinder: Kingmaker- Wrath of the Righteous out now!

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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    14GB patch coming down the pipe this morning.

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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    I love how The Storyteller is just chilling as the corpses of innocents start to mount up around me and I become an existential threat to life on Golarion.
    "I just killed everybody that was left alive in Drezen....any thoughts on that?"

    "Nope."

    *continues eating potato chips while just watching*

    Dr. Chaos on
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    HellboreHellbore A bad, bad man Registered User regular
    Release version of Update 1.1.0 is out, patch notes here
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    I love how The Storyteller is just chilling as the corpses of innocents start to mount up around me and I become an existential threat to life on Golarion.
    "I just killed everybody that was left alive in Drezen....any thoughts on that?"

    "Nope."

    *continues eating potato chips while just watching*
    Dude was around for Earthfall, he's seen worse.

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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Fighting the enemy that spams MYTHIC ASCENDED CHAIN LIGHTNING at you every round in Threshold and even [with the difficulty set to much weaker enemies and damage to 0.5 in frustration, he still obliterates me with it.

    This game's balance is nuts. Its just completely lost the plot between all the mythic abilities and feats flying around. Its like taking the spawn of Rovagug optional super boss in Kingmaker and thinking thats acceptable for what is essentially a fucking miniboss in the final mandatory dungeon.

    In an attempt to balance things against a mythic hero, they've basically lost their minds with the design of some of these fights.

    Dr. Chaos on
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    HellboreHellbore A bad, bad man Registered User regular
    Communal Protection from Electricity is the best bet against that guy I think. It gives the equivalent of Temp HP against that energy type. You should get 120 points of damage absorbtion at that point in the game.

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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Hellbore wrote: »
    Communal Protection from Electricity is the best bet against that guy I think. It gives the equivalent of Temp HP against that energy type. You should get 120 points of damage absorbtion at that point in the game.
    Had both resist and protection from electricity up.

    Don't think ascended lightning spells can be resisted.

    Dr. Chaos on
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    HellboreHellbore A bad, bad man Registered User regular
    Hmm, it doesn't read like Protection should interact with Ascended Element, must be one of those weird Pathfinder/Owlcat things.

    Anyways, I finished my first go through, in-game time 6d14h according to the final save. I think I'm going to give it a few more patches before I go again, but oveall I think I enjoyed it.

    Finale/ending spoilers
    The game does just kind of stop after dealing with Areelu. I assume the ascension ending is better, but just cutting straight to the ending slides is kind of weak.

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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Hellbore wrote: »
    Hmm, it doesn't read like Protection should interact with Ascended Element, must be one of those weird Pathfinder/Owlcat things.

    Anyways, I finished my first go through, in-game time 6d14h according to the final save. I think I'm going to give it a few more patches before I go again, but oveall I think I enjoyed it.

    Finale/ending spoilers
    The game does just kind of stop after dealing with Areelu. I assume the ascension ending is better, but just cutting straight to the ending slides is kind of weak.
    You get a slightly different scene with Pharasma, but otherwise it does the same thing - ascension specific ending slides and then credits.

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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Fighting the enemy that spams MYTHIC ASCENDED CHAIN LIGHTNING at you every round in Threshold and even [with the difficulty set to much weaker enemies and damage to 0.5 in frustration, he still obliterates me with it.

    This game's balance is nuts. Its just completely lost the plot between all the mythic abilities and feats flying around. Its like taking the spawn of Rovagug optional super boss in Kingmaker and thinking thats acceptable for what is essentially a fucking miniboss in the final mandatory dungeon.

    In an attempt to balance things against a mythic hero, they've basically lost their minds with the design of some of these fights.

    If it's the one I'm thinking of, those lightnings have finite casts - a common tactic is to hang back and spam summons on him until he runs out of electric juice, and then move in on him. Bit degenerate yes, but fight bullshit with bullshit is sometimes the name of this game.

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    OrphaneOrphane rivers of red that run to seaRegistered User regular
    3vpv93qf7lop.png

    i love Mythic Vital Strike

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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Some real OOTS d12 energy there.

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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Finished my run aswell.

    Had a hell of a time roleplaying a lich and already psyched to dive in again for the others.
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Hellbore wrote: »
    Hmm, it doesn't read like Protection should interact with Ascended Element, must be one of those weird Pathfinder/Owlcat things.

    Anyways, I finished my first go through, in-game time 6d14h according to the final save. I think I'm going to give it a few more patches before I go again, but oveall I think I enjoyed it.

    Finale/ending spoilers
    The game does just kind of stop after dealing with Areelu. I assume the ascension ending is better, but just cutting straight to the ending slides is kind of weak.
    You get a slightly different scene with Pharasma, but otherwise it does the same thing - ascension specific ending slides and then credits.
    I'm definitely doing ascension with my Lich via toybox cheating (not redoing an entire lich playthrough just for that) in the future so I can confront Pharasma. Want to do it legit the first time though.

    I got beef with her and her just saying "shoo" kind of bugged me.

    Dr. Chaos on
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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    I got another comment on my review that was basically trolling but also just bemoaned how there are so many difficulty adjustments available in the game that I could have taken advantage of, but didn't. Which I just facepalm at.

    I'm on my second run, I have it a notch below normal, but have increased damage and crit damage, and more enemies. It's still fight after fight of enemies who can't hit the broad side of a barn while I need a 2 roll, and then fight after fight of enemies who need a 2 roll while I need a 20.

    Like I have fiddled and fucked around with these difficulty settings and there just isn't one that balances combat out so that it's engaging at all. It's just power fantasy for 75% of the fights and then bullshit for the other 25%.

    The only thing I've been able to do to make fights interesting is to ramp up the strength of enemies 75% of the time until I get into a bullshit fight, and then knock it way the hell down.

    I'm completely mystified how they have the space of a d20 to operate in and still somehow couldn't find a balance there.

    Thawmus on
    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I got another comment on my review that was basically trolling but also just bemoaned how there are so many difficulty adjustments available in the game that I could have taken advantage of, but didn't. Which I just facepalm at.

    I'm on my second run, I have it a notch below normal, but have increased damage and crit damage, and more enemies. It's still fight after fight of enemies who can't hit the broad side of a barn while I need a 2 roll, and then fight after fight of enemies who need a 2 roll while I need a 20.

    Like I have fiddled and fucked around with these difficulty settings and there just isn't one that balances combat out so that it's engaging at all. It's just power fantasy for 75% of the fights and then bullshit for the other 25%.

    The only thing I've been able to do to make fights interesting is to ramp up the strength of enemies 75% of the time until I get into a bullshit fight, and then knock it way the hell down.

    I'm completely mystified how they have the space of a d20 to operate in and still somehow couldn't find a balance there.

    I feel like in a lot of cases of the "now they hit with a 2 and I can only hit with a 20" phenomenon there is an expecatation for you to try something completely different, and/or treat it like a puzzle you need to solve to have the same success as normal.

    ...And there isn't anything inherently wrong with puzzle fights/bosses, which is why I usually don't get too upset with the optional encounters that start going full BS mode at times (except that one summoned demon you can fight in the assault on Drezen at the end of Act 2, as AFAIK there is no way to reorganize the party at that point if you come to the conclusion that it's impossible with your current setup), but dropping such an encounter in the middle of other required encounters (or in the case of Blackwater, almost completely changing the paradigm you had gotten used to halfway) really fucks up the pacing in a way that's more frustrating than fun.

    In Kingmaker, Vodakai's Tomb and House at the End of Time were infamous for their BS, but at least the type of BS you were dealing with was consistent throughout the entire dungeon. For the Tomb you needed Death Ward on the frontliners and Restoration scrolls at the ready, for the House you needed True Sight on those who depend on attack rolls and Freedom of Movement on... basically everyone. And of couse Delay Poison at all times for both. There were a couple curveballs, sure, but IIRC nothing that completely negated what had been working for the last hour.

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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Yeah I don't have a problem with foes having a much higher AC than normal and being particularly difficult to hit, and you need to find a new way to engage them, that's fine. But generally speaking, IMHO, you should never need a nat 20 to hit, and you should always need better than a nat 2. An easy enemy should require at least a 5 roll, and a hard enemy should require no more than a 16-17. So yes, you should try something else against those hard enemies, but in the meantime it's also not entirely up to one or two party members to get rid of them. Heaven forbid your party spellcaster is super into control magic and not nukes.


    Also, I made the mistake of looking at steam discussion threads this morning and ran into, "Lul why aren't you quintuple-classing to get AC 118 and 3000 VS damage, are you just bad at the game?"

    Suffice to say I really hope the next Owlcat game adopts Pathfinder 2E, amongst other things on my wish list for them. I think it'll help a lot.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    SproutSprout Registered User regular
    The issue with these games is that they don't reward system mastery, they require it. Pathfinder, like D&D 3.5E before it, is such a pile of rules and systems layered on top of rules and systems that you can make some really broken stuff. And that's ok, but it should only be on higher difficulties that sort of thing feels required. On normal-ass difficulty you should be able to handle things with a less-than-optimized pure single-class party because that's what people who aren't familiar with the tabletop rules are probably going to wind up with.

    I think at the end of the day I just liked Kingmaker's structure better overall? The way it ramped up the threats you were facing was better and you had more enemy variety than Wrath's wall-to-wall demons.

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Sprout wrote: »
    I think at the end of the day I just liked Kingmaker's structure better overall? The way it ramped up the threats you were facing was better and you had more enemy variety than Wrath's wall-to-wall demons.

    This ultimately comes down to the stories they're telling. Kingmaker is a jaunt across lost and unexplored lands full of mystery, so enemy variety is something to just expect. The art styles even come into that - Kingmaker has a more vibrant, almost watercolour palette and appearance, making it feel almost whimsical to go with that spirit of adventure. It's high fantasty fun.

    Wrath is a crusade against the Worldwound, so there's not much room for many non-demon encounters, and there's some really horrid things you find. Wrath has a hard, muted palette and appearance to go with the the despair and atrocity-laden story you go through. It's pretty close to, if not completely grimdark at times.

    I like that each game has its own tone.

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    OrphaneOrphane rivers of red that run to seaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Aivu you are my boon companion and incredible dispel bot thanks to your absurd caster levels but why is your hitbox so damn large

    Aivu pls I'm trying to loot this body

    Aivu

    *Aivu sits on the chest of the corpse like an incredibly massive cat*

    Orphane on
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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    "You want this loot? Gimme a cookie!"

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    OrphaneOrphane rivers of red that run to seaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2021
    i got uh

    i got 2 more crit multiplier

    boi328sapei3.png

    (yeah i know a fully minmaxed sword saint can do more or w/e but who cares, that's pretty good for a plain 20 fighter)

    Orphane on
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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Anybody been playing trickster/have thoughts?

    I wanted to go Demon/Swarm for my second playthrough but I've been thinking about Trickster a lot lately.

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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Anybody been playing trickster/have thoughts?

    I wanted to go Demon/Swarm for my second playthrough but I've been thinking about Trickster a lot lately.

    Like a good third of Trickster's feats are broken and/or flat out don't work, but the ones that do work are busted beyond belief. Like Magic Device 3 flat out gives you a Wizard spellbook regardless of your current class, and Mobility 2 lets you retaliate with an Attack of Opportunity every time you avoid one -meaning you can just run around the battlefield dipping in and out of melee range and just kill everyone with AoOs.

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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Anybody been playing trickster/have thoughts?

    I wanted to go Demon/Swarm for my second playthrough but I've been thinking about Trickster a lot lately.

    Like a good third of Trickster's feats are broken and/or flat out don't work, but the ones that do work are busted beyond belief. Like Magic Device 3 flat out gives you a Wizard spellbook regardless of your current class, and Mobility 2 lets you retaliate with an Attack of Opportunity every time you avoid one -meaning you can just run around the battlefield dipping in and out of melee range and just kill everyone with AoOs.
    Sorry, probably should have clarified that I was more curious about the story stuff and dialog choices rather than just the gameplay.

    Appreciate the insight though.

    Dr. Chaos on
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    FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Anybody been playing trickster/have thoughts?

    I wanted to go Demon/Swarm for my second playthrough but I've been thinking about Trickster a lot lately.

    I've heard a couple people complain about the trickster story/choices being more trolling than genuinely funny/mythological-type trickster, but I don't have any experince myself.

    Also, might want to leave a hard save before the final choices that unlock swarm, as going that path locks out several of the sidequests in Act 5, seeing how as
    You(r swarm) have eaten everyone that didn't successfully flee and you don't get to replace your party members with your clones until Threshold

    Foefaller on
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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    The Demon/Swarm playthrough officially begins.

    BLOODGORE will be a chaotic evil build based around claw and stacking bite attacks so will be dipping all over the place. Also since he's super edgy, he'll be killing everyone he can anytime its an option.

    Also this has to be playing at all times:

    https://youtu.be/rXA4uxmmjRk

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    OrphaneOrphane rivers of red that run to seaRegistered User regular
    Anyone else have trouble finding the Skeletal Salesman in Act 5? He showed up semi-regularly in 2 and 3 but it feels like the odds of running into him become vanishingly low once we get the full map

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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Orphane wrote: »
    Anyone else have trouble finding the Skeletal Salesman in Act 5? He showed up semi-regularly in 2 and 3 but it feels like the odds of running into him become vanishingly low once we get the full map
    He became a lot rarer for me aswell.

    Which is a shame since it seemed like he was one of the few merchants that actually update their inventory in Act 5.


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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    So Limitless Rage is a pretty good mythic ability that lets you rage all day long, right?

    Except the game always turns off your rage every time you leave combat. Womp womp. So every time I leave combat, I've got to wait 30 seconds for the fatigue to wear off before I can run to the next one. No fix for this aside from a mod, apparently!

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    OrphaneOrphane rivers of red that run to seaRegistered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    So Limitless Rage is a pretty good mythic ability that lets you rage all day long, right?

    Except the game always turns off your rage every time you leave combat. Womp womp. So every time I leave combat, I've got to wait 30 seconds for the fatigue to wear off before I can run to the next one. No fix for this aside from a mod, apparently!

    Thawmus's character huffing and puffing, with hand on knees, holding a finger up towards the next enemy group 35 feet away asking for a moment

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    LorekLorek Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    So Limitless Rage is a pretty good mythic ability that lets you rage all day long, right?

    Except the game always turns off your rage every time you leave combat. Womp womp. So every time I leave combat, I've got to wait 30 seconds for the fatigue to wear off before I can run to the next one. No fix for this aside from a mod, apparently!

    Thats because you can't rage while fatigued. If you can make yourself immune to that, it will stay toggled.

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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Lorek wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    So Limitless Rage is a pretty good mythic ability that lets you rage all day long, right?

    Except the game always turns off your rage every time you leave combat. Womp womp. So every time I leave combat, I've got to wait 30 seconds for the fatigue to wear off before I can run to the next one. No fix for this aside from a mod, apparently!

    Thats because you can't rage while fatigued. If you can make yourself immune to that, it will stay toggled.

    I get that, that's not the problem. The problem is that the game shuts off your rage at all when there's no reason to.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Lich and Lich companions are pretty great in that respect because undead are immune to fatigue and as such don't have to worry about post-battle rage fatigue.

    Curiously, Witch Ameliorating does not suppress the effects of fatigue from rage. But given OwlCat it's just as likely to be a bug as it is intended.

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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Thawmus wrote: »
    So Limitless Rage is a pretty good mythic ability that lets you rage all day long, right?

    Except the game always turns off your rage every time you leave combat. Womp womp. So every time I leave combat, I've got to wait 30 seconds for the fatigue to wear off before I can run to the next one. No fix for this aside from a mod, apparently!
    As a budding demon bloodrager, I hadn't thought about that. Shit.

    There were ways to become immune to rage fatigue in Kingmaker though like certain barbarian equipment, I assume theres a way to avoid it in WOTR aswell. I remember seeing a lot of rage related gear on my first playthrough.

    Dr. Chaos on
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    htmhtm Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    So Limitless Rage is a pretty good mythic ability that lets you rage all day long, right?

    Except the game always turns off your rage every time you leave combat. Womp womp. So every time I leave combat, I've got to wait 30 seconds for the fatigue to wear off before I can run to the next one. No fix for this aside from a mod, apparently!
    As a budding demon bloodrager, I hadn't thought about that. Shit.

    There were ways to become immune to rage fatigue in Kingmaker though like certain barbarian equipment, I assume theres a way to avoid it in WOTR aswell. I remember seeing a lot of rage related gear on my first playthrough.

    As a stopgap, you could have Seelah take the Paladin Mercy that clears Fatigue. I believe she also has a feat for increasing her Mercies/day.

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    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Several sites list heart of ira as being available in WOTR aswell but frustratingly, none of them mention how you can get it.

    Dr. Chaos on
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    OrphaneOrphane rivers of red that run to seaRegistered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Several sites list heart of ira as being available in WOTR aswell but frustratingly, none of them mention how you can get it.

    i'm assuming it's because Trickster has a mythic trick that eventually allows you to find random magical items on your outings so a bunch of items from Kingmaker are in WotR due to being obtainable only from that search pool

    which is incredibly fucking annoying when you aren't a Trickster and just want to know what magic items you can find

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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    I was just following a build guide for Regill on Neoseeker that had him pick up a level or two of Bloodrager, and I thought that was neat, and also to pick up limitless rage right away, which I also thought was neat.

    But at this point I'm only enabling his rage for 1/3rd of his fights because the game's long enough, I'm not going to twiddle my thumbs that long between fights. Or I just won't use him until I find a way around his rage or respec him to not have it even though it's a great idea. I should really have ultimate control over whether my characters turn their shit on or off.


    EDIT: Okay, this is weird. I paused the game out of combat, and turned on Regill's rage. Now he's leaving it on as we enter and leave combat, just perma-raged, like I wanted. I'm not sure if I'll have to repeat when we enter new areas, but for now I'll take it!

    Thawmus on
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Pitax has been axed, I'm in the home stretch.

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    EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    captaink wrote: »
    Pitax has been axed, I'm in the home stretch.

    Pitax palace was my second favorite dungeon in kingmaker.

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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    I was just informed by a friend that my review of WOTR is ranked #2 on steam.

    I was wondering where all these points and comments were coming from.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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