Options

Pathfinder: Kingmaker- Wrath of the Righteous out now!

19394969899101

Posts

  • Options
    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited April 2022
    Riboflavin wrote: »
    'm tempted to start over as a Bard to play Bufferman but I am too far in to start over. I plan on doing one chaotic good play as trickster and then one lich run as some flavor of evil.
    Anyone run a pure Bard?

    Just go see Hilor, you can respec for free basically anytime as long as you're not on Core or harder difficulty.

    Bards can be pretty good, also check out Skalds. They do similar stuff but Skalds basically let you give your party barbarian rage. Or if you run a caster heavy party, try the Court Poet to get a song that boosts spellcasting.

    EDIT: If you do go Bard, there's very strong incentive to take 4 levels of Dragon Disciple. You only lose a single level of spellcasting and you pick up a ton of bonuses.

    Terrendos on
  • Options
    htmhtm Registered User regular
    edited April 2022
    Riboflavin wrote: »
    'm tempted to start over as a Bard to play Bufferman but I am too far in to start over. I plan on doing one chaotic good play as trickster and then one lich run as some flavor of evil.
    Anyone run a pure Bard?

    I've never run a pure Bard, but one of my favorite builds is a STR-based Bard that can be sword & board (or dual-wield melee). In WotR, my MC ended up taking...

    2 levels in Ranger/Demonslayer (for the Sword and Board Combat Style feat and Favored Enemy vs demons).
    4 levels of Dragon Disciple (for +4 STR and +2 natural armor).
    14 levels of Bard.

    This gets your MC all of the truly effective Bard goodies (Bard song as a Swift Action is at Bard 13, I think), and enough Sword and Board feats that they'll be effective in melee (they'll make up for Bard's 3/4 BAB with A LOT of STR). I play my MC with this build as an off-tank, with Seelah as main tank. My MC is about as tanky as Seelah and hits harder, but she usually spends at least a round per fight doing Bard things, so she doesn't have the combat uptime that Seelah does.

    Best race is probably some flavor of Aasimar and you might need some DEX gear (probably a belt, which are common) to meet the prereqs for the Two Weapon and (eventually) Shield Bash feats you'll want. Alternatively, you can try a dual-wield build: instead of shield feats, take more two-weapon feats. I feel like that neglects one of Bard's best features, though, which is the ability to cast without penalty while wielding a shield. Otherwise, just pay attention to your MC's skill points. The skill prereqs for Dragon Disciple are kind of weird.

    htm on
  • Options
    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Finished up my Archer Trickster replay last night, and even managed to pull off the secret ending. Turns out even Demon Lords crumple like paper against the might of Elemental Barrage. I never did clock in the most damage he could possibly do, but in the formerly infamous Vavakia Vanguard fight in Act 5 he clocked in 2000 damage in a single turn, and that's probably close.

    The nicest thing about the Trickster path is having the Improved Improved Critical line to fill up all those late feat slots on your characters once they've got the feats needed for their builds. They managed to turn half my party into absurd dealers of death.

    I kind of feel primed for another replay, actually. If I do, I'm definitely going Evil, probably either Warpriest Demon or Exploiter Wizard Lich. I definitely want to completely respec all my companions though, make my core Evil Team (Camellia, Woljif, Regill, Daeran, maybe Greybor) into completely different classes. Should add a little more variety.

  • Options
    DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    If you are doing an evil run, Wendaug is the best evil minion. Nothing makes you feel like a evil overlord like having a number two who is 100% supportive of your choices yet also one step away from heartless betrayal at any moment.

    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
  • Options
    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Decomposey wrote: »
    If you are doing an evil run, Wendaug is the best evil minion. Nothing makes you feel like a evil overlord like having a number two who is 100% supportive of your choices yet also one step away from heartless betrayal at any moment.

    Ah yes, the companion who graduated from the Starscream Academy. Greybor's out, Wenduag's in.

  • Options
    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    I got sidetracked by FFXIV, but I think my Aeon Alchemist playthrough is probably dead at this point. Aeon just doesn't offer anything to Alchemist, and Alchemist itself isn't really some world-beater class. Though I guess I haven't played since they patched in some more Gazes for Aeon.

  • Options
    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Okay, restarted like 4 times, finally landed on something I like.

    Monster Tactician Inquisitor of Asmodeus. Going for Devil run (Aeon first). I grabbed the Magic domain because sweet delicious Hand of the Acolyte + Greatsword = ranged Greatsword.

    I used Toybox to increase monster hp to 1.5x. Wish there was a control somewhere, anywhere, to lower their defenses, but alas.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • Options
    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Monster Tactician Aeon works out really well, but I think Devil is still pretty bad. Might be better off staying on the Aeon path and just being vaguely evil regardless.

    It's a shame because Devil is super rad in concept.

  • Options
    htmhtm Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Monster Tactician Aeon works out really well, but I think Devil is still pretty bad. Might be better off staying on the Aeon path and just being vaguely evil regardless.

    It's a shame because Devil is super rad in concept.

    Devil should be the default evil path (instead of Demon) and Demon should open up to Devils who want to ragequit being Lawful.

  • Options
    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Monster Tactician Aeon works out really well, but I think Devil is still pretty bad. Might be better off staying on the Aeon path and just being vaguely evil regardless.

    It's a shame because Devil is super rad in concept.

    Devil is definitely a weaker mythic path than...well...pretty much all the others, but it's the one I want.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • Options
    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Devil is overall underwhelming, but does have a few combos where it shines (Eldritch Archer + at-will Hellfire Rays = Hellfire Ray on every full attack)

  • Options
    WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    htm wrote: »
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Monster Tactician Aeon works out really well, but I think Devil is still pretty bad. Might be better off staying on the Aeon path and just being vaguely evil regardless.

    It's a shame because Devil is super rad in concept.

    Devil should be the default evil path (instead of Demon) and Demon should open up to Devils who want to ragequit being Lawful.

    Considering how they wrote the Mythic Paths into the story, Demon makes the most sense as the default evil path, story-wise.

  • Options
    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Devil is overall underwhelming, but does have a few combos where it shines (Eldritch Archer + at-will Hellfire Rays = Hellfire Ray on every full attack)

    If that actually works, then it's not supposed to. The Devil Hellfire Ray should be a spell-like ability and not be compatible with spell combat.

    Even if it does work, I still say Trickster does it better. Between Empowered and Completely Normal Spell metamagics, as well as the second spellbook, I had enough Hellfire Ray castings that I never ran out. And most of the time it's overkill anyway; Scorching Ray was often all I needed outside of boss fights. Most combats from Act 4 onward were "let MC kill everything round 1, if there's anything left Arue can finish it off."

  • Options
    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Devil is overall underwhelming, but does have a few combos where it shines (Eldritch Archer + at-will Hellfire Rays = Hellfire Ray on every full attack)

    If that actually works, then it's not supposed to. The Devil Hellfire Ray should be a spell-like ability and not be compatible with spell combat.

    lol Owlcat Pathfinder games are full of things that probably shouldn't work they way they do, but do anyway. This probably wouldn't make it on my top 20.

    That being said though, this was around the first month after release, I can't guarantee if it still works now or not.

  • Options
    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited April 2022
    Riboflavin wrote: »
    'm tempted to start over as a Bard to play Bufferman but I am too far in to start over. I plan on doing one chaotic good play as trickster and then one lich run as some flavor of evil.
    Anyone run a pure Bard?
    Played a lawful evil lich on my first run. Highly recommend.

    Super satisfying powerset and just a really cool archetype of villainy in general.

    Dr. Chaos on
    Pokemon GO: 7113 6338 6875/ FF14: Buckle Landrunner /Steam Profile
  • Options
    RiboflavinRiboflavin Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Riboflavin wrote: »
    'm tempted to start over as a Bard to play Bufferman but I am too far in to start over. I plan on doing one chaotic good play as trickster and then one lich run as some flavor of evil.
    Anyone run a pure Bard?
    Played a lawful evil lich on my first run. Highly recommend.

    Super satisfying powerset and just a really cool archetype of villainy in general.

    I;m at Ivory sanctum with my Trickster and having a blast. The door glitch hasn't happened in a long time and I wonder if I missed a patch,
    I feel an urge to finish so I can start over as lich and I don't know if that is normal. I am sure at that point I will want to hurry so I can start Azata. :-)

    So, Wizard Lich would be my first choice. Int gives plenty of skills and I don't think I will run out of spells because I only use 3 or 4 different ones each level so I will fill most of my slots with the same spell.

    Sorceror Lich is next because I like at will casting but I lose the bonus skills because I'd be pumping charisma.

    A small tiny piece of me wants to go Barbarian Lich..........

  • Options
    LorekLorek Registered User regular
    edited May 2022
    Riboflavin wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Riboflavin wrote: »
    'm tempted to start over as a Bard to play Bufferman but I am too far in to start over. I plan on doing one chaotic good play as trickster and then one lich run as some flavor of evil.
    Anyone run a pure Bard?
    Played a lawful evil lich on my first run. Highly recommend.

    Super satisfying powerset and just a really cool archetype of villainy in general.

    I;m at Ivory sanctum with my Trickster and having a blast. The door glitch hasn't happened in a long time and I wonder if I missed a patch,
    I feel an urge to finish so I can start over as lich and I don't know if that is normal. I am sure at that point I will want to hurry so I can start Azata. :-)

    So, Wizard Lich would be my first choice. Int gives plenty of skills and I don't think I will run out of spells because I only use 3 or 4 different ones each level so I will fill most of my slots with the same spell.

    Sorceror Lich is next because I like at will casting but I lose the bonus skills because I'd be pumping charisma.

    A small tiny piece of me wants to go Barbarian Lich..........

    Barbarian Lich can get actually get pretty hilarious because you can take the Lich power to give you DR 10/- and combine it with Invulnerable Rager and just have a stupid amount of DR /- and walk through rooms unscathed by such petty concerns as damage rolls. Then throw on the Lich spell that lets you heal off your melee damage vampire-style and as long as you got something to hit, you're healing back whatever tiny amount of damage you're still taking.

    Lorek on
  • Options
    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Restarted, playing as a Wizard to go into Lich. I thought since I had an easy enough time on Normal, that I'd just kick it up to Core and try for some cheevos. Boy, was I not prepared!

    Managed to get through the Shield Maze okay, took a few tries to kill the Water Elemental. But just the fights in the Market Square are super annoying, like, "30% chance I'll have to reload" sort of annoying. I know Wizard is like the weakest class early game, but it really sucks spending whole turns where everybody's whiffing on just fights with plain old cultists, not even demons. The capper was up near the necromancer, where I got attacked by 3 Shadows and a bunch of Zombies, while I'm just level 4. They outright killed Camellia thanks to Strength damage, and that's not even one of the "challenging" fights.

    I'm starting to think that perhaps I should just knock it back down to Normal. I don't think I have the patience to reload every third fight or find out that I need one specific spell and have to go back and buy a scroll for it or something. This game is already more than long enough.

  • Options
    ED!ED! Registered User regular
    So played about 30 hours of this at release and stopped because I wasn't happy with performance (I don't think I actually got out of Act 1 or whatever The Maze and exploring the aftermath of the attack up top; definitely didn't get a Mythic Path or experience anything related to the Crusade).

    Getting back into a run and performance seems better (capping my game at 40FPS though at 4K, 60FPS just doesn't seem doable for me), but the game feels harder? I swear I haven't tweaked the difficulty settings from previous game, but boy howdy is The Maze a bit more trouble than I remember (and honestly I don't remember much).

    I did take on the Elemental and got the trophy (I guess I didn't try it before) but this was a slog and a half: the boss would break aggro to chase after Lann because he was just brutalizing the mob (and by brutalizing I mean only one really doing damage as everyone else was on tank or debuff duty); this would happen always when the thing was just about to die. I finally said screw it and just had my team tank through the lost aggro (still had to kite the boss).

    Then on to the main boss fight and I got "beginners trapped" by enemies spawning behind my team and then on the next try got one shot by boss during second phase from a ridiculous 45 damage hit, and if I survive that the boss just deagrros and goes to someone else. I finally managed to beat the boss not by changing my strategy but by getting lucky with the rolls. It didn't feel good. I know games like this are rough in the early going (particularly on Core difficulty) but this was something else.

    I'm currently trying to finish off Market Square and hoping to never have to come back to this place, although I hear there's worse or similar performing places in the game (though to be fair its the loading that is horrific here, especially with how difficult some of the encounters are like "Rat Swarm House"). Everything outside of this is actually enjoyable; not the defense mission on a timer; I hate stuff like that as it makes you feel like you've missed something (in my first playthrough I did, missing a party member who is one of two of my damage output).

    . . .overall enjoying the return, just wish this game technically was in a better state than when I left it almost 8 months ago. It honestly feels the same (I'm sure it isn't).

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • Options
    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    I don't envy Owlcat right now trying to figure out how to follow Wrath.

    If they remove mythic paths in Iron Gods (totally betting my money on it being the next campaign), they got to have something pretty substantial to replace it with. Mythic paths just add so much to the formula and replayability.

    Giving me the ability to play a cybernetically enhanced goblin that fires a laser gun would be close though.

    Pokemon GO: 7113 6338 6875/ FF14: Buckle Landrunner /Steam Profile
  • Options
    EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    edited May 2022
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    I don't envy Owlcat right now trying to figure out how to follow Wrath.

    If they remove mythic paths in Iron Gods (totally betting my money on it being the next campaign), they got to have something pretty substantial to replace it with. Mythic paths just add so much to the formula and replayability.

    Giving me the ability to play a cybernetically enhanced goblin that fires a laser gun would be close though.

    Give us the pirate campaign vs the devil nation! Think it was called cheliax ? Iron gods didn’t sound that interesting.

    EspantaPajaro on
  • Options
    Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    I'm more into scifi than fantasy so Iron Gods is kind of my dream campaign.

    Well, that or Owlcat doing a Starfinder game.

    Pokemon GO: 7113 6338 6875/ FF14: Buckle Landrunner /Steam Profile
  • Options
    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited May 2022
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    I'm more into scifi than fantasy so Iron Gods is kind of my dream campaign.

    Well, that or Owlcat doing a Starfinder game.

    Some random company posted an image of the Starfinder game they were working on; Paizo quickly attempted to squash the rumor (possibly because they don'twant to announce it yet), but there is some evidence that it is a thing that might exist at some point.

    That said, Starfinder/Iron Gods is probably the only thing that will get me back since I burned out on Kingmaker.

    EDIT: Well I might be tempted by Skull and Shackles since I've been listening to Dead Men Roll No Crits, or one of the Cthulhu-inspired ones.

    Dracomicron on
  • Options
    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    So played about 30 hours of this at release and stopped because I wasn't happy with performance (I don't think I actually got out of Act 1 or whatever The Maze and exploring the aftermath of the attack up top; definitely didn't get a Mythic Path or experience anything related to the Crusade).

    Getting back into a run and performance seems better (capping my game at 40FPS though at 4K, 60FPS just doesn't seem doable for me), but the game feels harder? I swear I haven't tweaked the difficulty settings from previous game, but boy howdy is The Maze a bit more trouble than I remember (and honestly I don't remember much).

    I did take on the Elemental and got the trophy (I guess I didn't try it before) but this was a slog and a half: the boss would break aggro to chase after Lann because he was just brutalizing the mob (and by brutalizing I mean only one really doing damage as everyone else was on tank or debuff duty); this would happen always when the thing was just about to die. I finally said screw it and just had my team tank through the lost aggro (still had to kite the boss).

    Then on to the main boss fight and I got "beginners trapped" by enemies spawning behind my team and then on the next try got one shot by boss during second phase from a ridiculous 45 damage hit, and if I survive that the boss just deagrros and goes to someone else. I finally managed to beat the boss not by changing my strategy but by getting lucky with the rolls. It didn't feel good. I know games like this are rough in the early going (particularly on Core difficulty) but this was something else.

    I'm currently trying to finish off Market Square and hoping to never have to come back to this place, although I hear there's worse or similar performing places in the game (though to be fair its the loading that is horrific here, especially with how difficult some of the encounters are like "Rat Swarm House"). Everything outside of this is actually enjoyable; not the defense mission on a timer; I hate stuff like that as it makes you feel like you've missed something (in my first playthrough I did, missing a party member who is one of two of my damage output).

    . . .overall enjoying the return, just wish this game technically was in a better state than when I left it almost 8 months ago. It honestly feels the same (I'm sure it isn't).

    Playing on Core is indeed pretty rough, and your MC makes a big difference in that early difficulty. Playing something with some decent damage will make it a lot easier, otherwise it's kind of a wiffle bat fest. I came back to beat the Elemental right at the very end, and the various scrolls and potions you find make it a bit easier. If you're not familiar with the game (or Pathfinder as a system), you might want to crank the difficulty down to Normal. I found that to be a much less stressful experience my first time through. Still some occasional challenging fights, but I wasn't constantly concerned about getting sucker punched by some random fight with cultists. Replaying on Core now, I'm at the start of Act 2 with ~16 hours spent (though a few of those were me stepping away from the game while leaving it running, so realistically 12 hours). Playing through Act 1 on Normal took me about 8 hours last time, so that should give you an idea for how much longer the game takes.

    That said, I'm told the difficulty on Core is pretty frontloaded, and I do feel like it's getting a bit easier. So maybe the rest of the game won't be quite as bad.

  • Options
    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    I don't envy Owlcat right now trying to figure out how to follow Wrath.

    If they remove mythic paths in Iron Gods (totally betting my money on it being the next campaign), they got to have something pretty substantial to replace it with. Mythic paths just add so much to the formula and replayability.

    Giving me the ability to play a cybernetically enhanced goblin that fires a laser gun would be close though.

    In some unfortunate ways the mythic system is as much about essential QoL features as it is pure player power. Mythic Weapon Finesse alone is entirely too useful to not make it into the next game.

  • Options
    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    I just hope that the next Owlcat game:

    1. just fucks off entirely with the settlement building and army management shit
    2. builds encounters to be different for RTwP and TBM. The monsters' stats should be different, and TBM should run into fewer encounters but also more interesting encounters.

    While trying to make another run, I'm still unable to get the game to find a sweet spot so combat can be fun, but also after the 30th fight with spiders I'm just like, bleh, fuck this.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • Options
    TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    I want them to switch to PF2 (unlikely, it's be a massive amount of dev work). I think it would lead to a much smoother and less buggy experience.

    Also shorter games.

    Ideally, I want an Abomination Vaults game.

  • Options
    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    I'm currently playing PF2 Abom Vaults and it's so fucking hard. We've wiped like 3 times. It's very different.

    I have no faith that Owlcat will understand the intricacies of balancing combat in that system.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • Options
    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I'm currently playing PF2 Abom Vaults and it's so fucking hard. We've wiped like 3 times. It's very different.

    I have no faith that Owlcat will understand the intricacies of balancing combat in that system.

    "What do you mean, the monster can't have an extra +10 to hit for no reason? What’s that you say? Automatic crits you say? I still haven't heard a problem..."

  • Options
    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I just hope that the next Owlcat game:

    1. just fucks off entirely with the settlement building and army management shit
    2. builds encounters to be different for RTwP and TBM. The monsters' stats should be different, and TBM should run into fewer encounters but also more interesting encounters.

    While trying to make another run, I'm still unable to get the game to find a sweet spot so combat can be fun, but also after the 30th fight with spiders I'm just like, bleh, fuck this.

    The Kingdom/Crusade management stuff that worked best was the part that took place in your throne room. People approach you and you have to make important decisions.

    I think it'd be cool if you got a Keep (kinda like Drezen) that you used in-game decisions and sidequests to build out. Start out as just a little tower in the woods, and customize it a bit for your character (Arcane caster? Wizard's tower! Wilderness expert? Hunting lodge, etc.) After a while, you get some visitors and a vendor or two for convenience and it becomes your base of operations. Wrap your decisions on Keep development into the end slides. No need for setting specific buildings or moving around little armies.

  • Options
    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I just hope that the next Owlcat game:

    1. just fucks off entirely with the settlement building and army management shit
    2. builds encounters to be different for RTwP and TBM. The monsters' stats should be different, and TBM should run into fewer encounters but also more interesting encounters.

    While trying to make another run, I'm still unable to get the game to find a sweet spot so combat can be fun, but also after the 30th fight with spiders I'm just like, bleh, fuck this.

    The Kingdom/Crusade management stuff that worked best was the part that took place in your throne room. People approach you and you have to make important decisions.

    I think it'd be cool if you got a Keep (kinda like Drezen) that you used in-game decisions and sidequests to build out. Start out as just a little tower in the woods, and customize it a bit for your character (Arcane caster? Wizard's tower! Wilderness expert? Hunting lodge, etc.) After a while, you get some visitors and a vendor or two for convenience and it becomes your base of operations. Wrap your decisions on Keep development into the end slides. No need for setting specific buildings or moving around little armies.

    Yep, decrees worked just fine, making political choices was cool, having a base is cool, 100% agree with all of this.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • Options
    RiboflavinRiboflavin Registered User regular
    The lack of late game detailed guides has led to me attempting to train ninja pirate zombies. Bless you game and Trickster path. I hope I actually get them as units. This game is great despite it's warts. That is all.

  • Options
    NosfNosf Registered User regular
    One city to build with storylines and some real depth to it would be much more interesting than just upgrading 40 cities that you never visit.

  • Options
    DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    It could work with a Skulls and Shackles game. I dunno about whether its in the base campaign but I know when I played it on tabletop my party build a city and a fleet of pirates.

    But then when I ran a tabletop Kingmaker the party gave the position of mayor of one of their cities to a horse, so I understand unintended things happen in tabletop games.

    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
  • Options
    AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Decomposey wrote: »
    It could work with a Skulls and Shackles game. I dunno about whether its in the base campaign but I know when I played it on tabletop my party build a city and a fleet of pirates.

    But then when I ran a tabletop Kingmaker the party gave the position of mayor of one of their cities to a horse, so I understand unintended things happen in tabletop games.

    I don't run modules, always just make my own world and story and run with it. One campaign I ran was an Evil campaign. Our Evil Druid did in fact make his horse intelligent, name him Mayor Horse, and put him in charge of the local town they started in. It was well deserved, though, because that horse saved the party twice prior to that. We still laugh about Mayor Horse.

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • Options
    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Decomposey wrote: »
    It could work with a Skulls and Shackles game. I dunno about whether its in the base campaign but I know when I played it on tabletop my party build a city and a fleet of pirates.

    But then when I ran a tabletop Kingmaker the party gave the position of mayor of one of their cities to a horse, so I understand unintended things happen in tabletop games.

    I don't run modules, always just make my own world and story and run with it. One campaign I ran was an Evil campaign. Our Evil Druid did in fact make his horse intelligent, name him Mayor Horse, and put him in charge of the local town they started in. It was well deserved, though, because that horse saved the party twice prior to that. We still laugh about Mayor Horse.

    In our Ptolus campaign, my city druid had a dog named Gronnigan. Everyone loved Gronnigan. Me they could take or leave.

    Anyway Gronnigan died in a cave-in and I got him Reincarnated. I even created a whole animal reincarnation table for my GM to use. Gronnigan was reborn as a horse. I eventually gave him sentience and he outlived me.

    Gronnigan was a good horse. Probably make a good mayor.

  • Options
    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I'm currently playing PF2 Abom Vaults and it's so fucking hard. We've wiped like 3 times. It's very different.

    I have no faith that Owlcat will understand the intricacies of balancing combat in that system.

    Owlcat seems to have a very peculiar concept of game balance. They like to have their encounter based on the enemy having a thing, and if you're party has a way to negate that thing you're in good shape, if not, you're in for fun. But then it seems like they tweak the stats and all that around idea that the party will know about and have negated the thing, which turns the situation where your party isn't properly setup to deal with things into a very not-fun time.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • Options
    WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    Started an Angel playthrough and even though I'm still fairly early in Act 3, I'm beginning to wonder when its Mythic path actually, like, starts.
    As an Azata, Aivu shows up straight away so there's your Mythic connection. Demon frequently gets plagued by nightmares to at least let you know its storyline is there even if you manage to overcome them. I don't know about Lich, but Zacharius gets introduced in Act 2, so I'm guessing he's around pretty quickly.

    Angel, though, seems to take its sweet time making itself known.

  • Options
    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I'm currently playing PF2 Abom Vaults and it's so fucking hard. We've wiped like 3 times. It's very different.

    I have no faith that Owlcat will understand the intricacies of balancing combat in that system.

    Owlcat seems to have a very peculiar concept of game balance. They like to have their encounter based on the enemy having a thing, and if you're party has a way to negate that thing you're in good shape, if not, you're in for fun. But then it seems like they tweak the stats and all that around idea that the party will know about and have negated the thing, which turns the situation where your party isn't properly setup to deal with things into a very not-fun time.

    Case in point from me playing last night: the fight with Theruk Nul in Drezen.

    Vampire who casts Dominate spells, alongside his army of spawns who also cast Dominate spells. The individual DCs aren't terrible, but the sheer number mean you're bound to lose at least 1-2 allies in the first round. From there on it's an escalating danger as you desperately try to kill them all before your entire party gets mind controlled.

    The solution? One cast of Communal Protection from Evil. Makes the whole party immune to domination and trivializes that fight, even on Core, as the enemies will each spend their first few turns trying to dominate in vain. Fortunately in that particular case it's a spell you're very likely to have on one of your companions (Sosiel and Camillia both have it in their spell lists, and Cam can use her Spirit Bond to re-learn it if need be).

  • Options
    htmhtm Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I'm currently playing PF2 Abom Vaults and it's so fucking hard. We've wiped like 3 times. It's very different.

    I have no faith that Owlcat will understand the intricacies of balancing combat in that system.

    Owlcat seems to have a very peculiar concept of game balance. They like to have their encounter based on the enemy having a thing, and if you're party has a way to negate that thing you're in good shape, if not, you're in for fun. But then it seems like they tweak the stats and all that around idea that the party will know about and have negated the thing, which turns the situation where your party isn't properly setup to deal with things into a very not-fun time.

    Case in point from me playing last night: the fight with Theruk Nul in Drezen.

    Vampire who casts Dominate spells, alongside his army of spawns who also cast Dominate spells. The individual DCs aren't terrible, but the sheer number mean you're bound to lose at least 1-2 allies in the first round. From there on it's an escalating danger as you desperately try to kill them all before your entire party gets mind controlled.

    The solution? One cast of Communal Protection from Evil. Makes the whole party immune to domination and trivializes that fight, even on Core, as the enemies will each spend their first few turns trying to dominate in vain. Fortunately in that particular case it's a spell you're very likely to have on one of your companions (Sosiel and Camillia both have it in their spell lists, and Cam can use her Spirit Bond to re-learn it if need be).

    Yeah, Owlcat will punish you for not picking up on their foreshadowing. There are plenty of clues that Theruk Nul is a vampire, so if you don’t realize that, then he will do bad vampire things to you. The frustrating part is that countering bad vampire things requires an in-depth knowledge of the PF monster manual and spell books. Both are vast, and when a solution to a seemingly impossible fight turns out to be a relatively trivial spell you forgot about, it feels kind of like you’re playing with a know-it-all DM.

This discussion has been closed.