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[Australian & NZ Politics] 'Straya's closed

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Eh, part of that is coerce with intimidation which I don't think this qualifies for.

    It's fucking stupid, and just another of her stunts that shows she's more interested in political stunts than policy to gain support (because her policies aren't popular enough to actually gain much support), but it's not terrorism by that definition.

    -Loki- on
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    tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Regardless it's about eight layers of idiotic even before you get to the ostensible (planet-destroying) goal.

    Someone needs to put a "no acting like a Kim Possible supervillain" law on the books.

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    HybridHybrid South AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Nothing proves that renewables must be inadequate more than trying to intentionally go out of your way to overload the system

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    -SPI- wrote: »
    So... on Thursday Pauline Hanson advocated an act of Terrorism.

    She called on her supporters to intentionally overload the power grid even further during a period we were already experiencing blackouts (due to the heatwave) to try and force construction of new coal power plants and abandon renewables.
    Terrorist acts
    A terrorist act is an act, or a threat to act, that meets both these criteria:

    it intends to coerce or influence the public or any government by intimidation to advance a political, religious or ideological cause.
    it causes one or more of the following:

    death, serious harm or danger to a person
    serious damage to property
    a serious risk to the health of safety of the public
    serious interference with, disruption to, or destruction of critical infrastructure such as a telecommunications or electricity network.

    The statement I'm seeing is 'Stuff the government; just use whatever you normally would this heat wave'.

    This is, at worst, accelerationism, as opposed to complete cartoon villany.
    At best, it's why does the little guy have to pay for the mismanagement of government, leading into a completely misguided 'So build more coal'.

    So, I sort of agree with her that more investment is needed into our power infrastructure.
    Just probably solar instead, not coal.
    Seems that would work well in the middle of a heatwave.

    Aside I've been AC shopping, and these things seem to only be rated up to 46 degrees outside :(

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    HybridHybrid South AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Where was she trying to do this then, because I'm pretty sure at least in SA and Vic the government already had powered up extra diesel generators and said yo its gonna be hot, we're putting on extra power, go nuts to get through, so that stunt would have meant squat here really?

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    It was aimed at Vic, because 'renewables! Need more coal'

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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Terrorism laws are vague and broad because the purpose is not to fight terrorism but to gain power.

    What Pauline Hanson did is not terrorism. Even if it crashed the power network ten times over, it wouldn't be terrorism.

    Gvzbgul on
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    HybridHybrid South AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2019
    I think I basically agree wtih you and I'm sure she wouldn't even be able to come close to doing it, but under those weather conditions, in a world where the power had gone then she would be pulling a stunt that would seriously put people's health at risk in order to promote an idea that puts the world at risk and I would be utterly unable to discuss it and her in any way that would be polite

    E: To be more clear I mean that if she had said hey let's crash the power and it did, and it could be proven that she was responsible, I would be fine to not call it terrorism, under the assumption and expectation that there is something else that she could be charged with or held accountable for because it really seems wildy reckless to me

    Hybrid on
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    simonwolfsimonwolf i can feel a difference today, a differenceRegistered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Wrong thread!!

    simonwolf on
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    KelorKelor Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Banks having record days of stock trading once the market realised that after the Comission's final report nothing would actually would be done.

    Kelor on
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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Looking at the Guardian's summary of the Commission, I don't know how mortgage brokers are going to get paid if the recommendations are implemented.
    Whilst trailing commissions from lenders do provide a conflict of interest, they also mean the service is free for borrowers.
    So borrowers who can't pay have to now go.. to the big banks directly for loans?
    I don't see how that would be an improvement.

    discrider on
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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    also I'm not convinced there is a way to get rid of any conflict of interest. People who don't do their due diligence in researching what they're being told about their mortgages will be taken advantage of somehow by someone, I don't really think it matters whether it's a crooked mortgage broker or a big bank doing the taking advantage of.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Ultimately, I think the government needs some sort of bank of the common-wealth because I don't see private banks ever being able to resist the pull of shareholders over customers.

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    McFodderMcFodder Registered User regular
    Yeah, if it shifts to user-pays it's really just going to mean very few people will use brokers, and so most brokers will stop being brokers.

    I work in a finance-adjacent area myself and unfortunately do see a lot of people who have been taken advantage of or not realised what they are paying for, and it sucks - just recently had someone try and trade in a car worth $30k only to discover they still owed $54k on it since the finance guy at the yard he bought it from was nice enough to include a whole bunch of insurances.

    Hell, I worked at a (non-mortgage) broker about 8 years ago and ended up getting fired because they expected me to lie on applications and not disclose expenses that the customer was going to be paying. There is some shit in the industry for sure, I'm just not sure that what will effectively be burning it to the ground is the best solution.

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    plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    Every time this thread is bumped I feel dread.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    plufim wrote: »
    Every time this thread is bumped I feel dread.

    <_<

    Not sure why..
    I mean Tas is on fire, but our government is in a holding pattern until we can vote the Liberals out.
    It's not like this is the UK or US (2nd shutdown incoming..) thread.

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    plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    I dread what Morrison will do as he circles the drain. They'll do whatever they can to curb progress once they're out.

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    MorblitzMorblitz Registered User regular
    The party of "Don't forget to pull the ladder up behind us!"

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    plufim wrote: »
    I dread what Morrison will do as he circles the drain. They'll do whatever they can to curb progress once they're out.

    They're a bucket of rats and the bucket's on fire.
    They also no longer have a majority, so I'm not worried terribly that their flailing will result in anything other than more self-inflicted gaffes.

    But yeah, they are desperate I guess.

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    plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    Just got Another text from Clive. He's not gonna stop huh.

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    simonwolfsimonwolf i can feel a difference today, a differenceRegistered User regular
    the texting will continue until polling improves

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    McFodderMcFodder Registered User regular
    Or until we vote them in to ban it! Apparently.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Someone needs to create law to ban any network provider from giving Clive a phone.

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    VikingViking Registered User regular
    This election is going to be rough, so many names fighting to be bottom of my ballot this time. so many in fact that I am sure some are going to be nearer the top than I would really like.

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    Sanguinius666264Sanguinius666264 Registered User regular
    Chris Bowen really didn't do Labor any favours regarding the franking credit return.
    'hey I'm on lowish income, I'll lose a substantial chunk of money'
    'feel free to not vote for us then'

    Ok mate, thanks. That's real inspiring.

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    I’m getting three fucken UAP ads every ad break.

    Clive, this is how you piss someone off for life, not how you gain votes.

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    plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    UAP ads all over YouTube too.

    Wish I could block ads from returning but YouTube won't even allow me to block certain channels, so.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Meanwhile I keep seeing these Treasury-produced-and-funded government election ads everywhere.
    And I don't get how they're allowed to waste money like this, without it being election funding.

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    -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Christopher Pyne tipped the govt's hand this morning on insiders (in an incredible display of desperation fuelled ranting) as far as their election campaign goes. They're pulling out the classics and going with "Oh noes Boats"

    "If any boat arrives between now and election day, we'll be able to say that's here because of Shorten's law."

    And since the boats never actually stopped coming, expect that surprise surprise on-water-matters suddenly get talked about again and some of those turn backs get a little less turned back.

    -SPI- on
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    -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited February 2019
    The government is in the process of losing the vote on the medivac bill and Pyne completely lost his goddamn mind. He turned bright pink and began ranting about Charles the 1st and the english civil war.

    And it's done. Scott managed to get in a particularly shouty and unhinged rant before the vote, but now any illusion of his caretaker government being legitimate have evaporated. Can someone call the Queen and get the GG to put this Goverment out of it's misery.

    -SPI- on
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    So that didn’t go the governments way.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    What was the bill exactly?

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Lol, did the house pass funding without the government's support?

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    Road BlockRoad Block Registered User regular
    plufim wrote: »
    UAP ads all over YouTube too.

    Wish I could block ads from returning but YouTube won't even allow me to block certain channels, so.

    If you report the ad you won't see that specific one anymore (click why am I seeing this ad in the bottom left) Unfortunately YouTube is run by Howler Monkeys who will keep serving up other ads from there database of way too goddamn many Palmer ads.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    discrider wrote: »
    Lol, did the house pass funding without the government's support?

    They did!

    So from what I heard the amendments were the Labor senate's amendments, I think to allay security department concerns about medical transfers, but also to set up a board of doctors to more quickly review potential transferees.
    That costs money, and the senate can't allocate money. But they can send a suggestion back to the lower house, albeit not usually as a draft amendment that says 'and we will spend money'.

    Normally the government is the government because they can produce a budget and spend money (they control supply).
    However, they just lost this vote in the house which now allocates money to the board of doctors.
    This will be sent back to the Senate to repass as they shouldn't have sent a funding amendment to the lower house.

    So, the government claims to have supply and can pass the budget with the cross-benchers, but now the opposition can also claim to have supply and so is the government really the government at all?
    At which point it really should be GG: Calling a snap dissolution.

    discrider on
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    Sanguinius666264Sanguinius666264 Registered User regular
    Not really, it's schrodinger's Government. It's still a Government until there's no confidence, which has to come in the form of a no confidence vote. Until then, they're still confirmed as the Government of the day because they can pass supply.

    They're not going to pass a lot of legislation and they're essentially a lame duck and yes, an early election would be lovely to put them out of their misery, but that's not going to happen either. Morrison will drag this out as long as possible in order to hope for a miracle - it's not totally unheard of in Australian politics for a long lead in the polls to be squandered and Labor can definitely snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Not really, it's schrodinger's Government. It's still a Government until there's no confidence, which has to come in the form of a no confidence vote. Until then, they're still confirmed as the Government of the day because they can pass supply.

    They're not going to pass a lot of legislation and they're essentially a lame duck and yes, an early election would be lovely to put them out of their misery, but that's not going to happen either. Morrison will drag this out as long as possible in order to hope for a miracle - it's not totally unheard of in Australian politics for a long lead in the polls to be squandered and Labor can definitely snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    But the Opposition just passed supply!
    That's why the Solicitor General ruled the original Senate amendments unconstitutional (the House needs to start supply bills)

    discrider on
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    Sanguinius666264Sanguinius666264 Registered User regular
    They passed a bill that requires funding and did so against the Government of the day's wishes. That's very rare, but not unprecedented. It happens when you get a minority Government - although, it wouldn't be that different if you had enough members cross the floor if it was a particularly controversial vote.

    The Government will still pass a budget, or at least large parts of one. Though even that isn't totally necessary either - the Abbott Government didn't pass large parts of the 2014 budget, though still passed supply overall.

    It definitely shows that the current Government is fucked, thank God, but is not a Constitutional crisis needing a snap election.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    They passed a bill that requires funding and did so against the Government of the day's wishes. That's very rare, but not unprecedented. It happens when you get a minority Government - although, it wouldn't be that different if you had enough members cross the floor if it was a particularly controversial vote.

    The Government will still pass a budget, or at least large parts of one. Though even that isn't totally necessary either - the Abbott Government didn't pass large parts of the 2014 budget, though still passed supply overall.

    It definitely shows that the current Government is fucked, thank God, but is not a Constitutional crisis needing a snap election.

    Boo...
    Sunday Morning Herald is saying I got it wrong and the lower house cut the spending part of the bill to get it over the line:

    Constitutional expert Anne Twomey, a professor of law at the University of Sydney, said the Labor decision to cut the cost of the medical panel changed the implications of the loss in Parliament.

    "Now that it is no longer a money bill, and given that the government did not declare it to be an issue of confidence, the government can continue governing," she said.

    discrider on
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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Senate starting to debate the amendments, Liberals are now listing all the speculative rapists, murderers and pedophiles that will flood the country as soon as we start giving people appropriate levels of medical care.
    Ghouls.

This discussion has been closed.