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[Australian & NZ Politics] Australia Decided. Hm.

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Posts

  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited September 10
    Nah, it's "... but hopefully if we just address the problems, I can fix things without mentioning man-made climate change and getting thrown out by my party."

    Meanwhile Matt Canavan, the resource minister is all "we'll fix climate change with more coal and gas"

    From the same article:
    Canavan said the Liberal-National Coalition supported “sensible responses to climate change that included support for the high-quality coal and gas that we produce in this country”. “It is through the high-quality production of energy that we will respond to climate change and reduce emissions,” he said.

    discrider on
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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    The solution to emissions is more emissions. I guess that tracks, since australia's electoral solution to being led by a bunch of arseholes was to add more arseholes.

    MorganVAnzekayKayne Red RobeMcFodderHappy Little Machinechrishallett83Sanguinius666264Kharnor
  • -SPI--SPI- Registered User regular
    It's extraordinary how many coalition members are just dumber than a sack of rocks. Genuine dunces. There's so many despicable cretins amongst their ranks that sometimes one will pop up and you have a moment of surprise because you totally forgot that they were a distinct person because they just blended in with the other halfwits.

    "Oh right. Dan Tehan is a seperate entity from David Littleproud I totally forgot that."

    tynic
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    The solution to emissions is more emissions. I guess that tracks, since australia's electoral solution to being led by a bunch of arseholes was to add more arseholes.

    It’s the Australian mentality, right down to ‘the best hangover cure is another beer’.

    Fencingsax
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    I have been complaining about NZ politics being boring but i kinda want to take it back now.

    The Labour handling of a creep hasnt gone well. Previously it just seemed to be poorly handled but more recent reports paint a picture of deliberate covering for a sexual predator.

    Content warning:
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/unsponsored/09-09-2019/a-labour-volunteer-alleged-violent-sexual-assault-by-a-senior-staffer-this-is-her-story/

    This and other stories from the other 11 accusers shift it from incompetence to deliberate mishandling. Either ther accusers are lying or the party is. Because the accusers claim that they shared their experience with and concerns about the accused with various Labour people (and have supplied the emails to the media) but the party claims it was never told (even they weren't, it was in the news by that point, so you'd expect them to have at least heard about the problem right?).

    And poor Jacinda. Her cult of personality isnt really helping right now, she keeps putting herself forward saying "i will fix this" about this or that but i really don't think that is a strategy that can last forever. Sooner or later, if she keeps taking responsibility for things that dont need to be her responsibility, it will come back to bite her. It pretty much already is if you look at the Ihumātao protests. They dont want to meet or negotiate with the government. They want to meet with Jacinda.

  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    I have been complaining about NZ politics being boring but i kinda want to take it back now.

    The Labour handling of a creep hasnt gone well. Previously it just seemed to be poorly handled but more recent reports paint a picture of deliberate covering for a sexual predator.

    Content warning:
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/unsponsored/09-09-2019/a-labour-volunteer-alleged-violent-sexual-assault-by-a-senior-staffer-this-is-her-story/

    This and other stories from the other 11 accusers shift it from incompetence to deliberate mishandling. Either ther accusers are lying or the party is. Because the accusers claim that they shared their experience with and concerns about the accused with various Labour people (and have supplied the emails to the media) but the party claims it was never told (even they weren't, it was in the news by that point, so you'd expect them to have at least heard about the problem right?).

    And poor Jacinda. Her cult of personality isnt really helping right now, she keeps putting herself forward saying "i will fix this" about this or that but i really don't think that is a strategy that can last forever. Sooner or later, if she keeps taking responsibility for things that dont need to be her responsibility, it will come back to bite her. It pretty much already is if you look at the Ihumātao protests. They dont want to meet or negotiate with the government. They want to meet with Jacinda.

    Considering every other similar situation, I am reflexively going for the party is covering it up.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
    Fencingsax
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    But surely they must recognise that covering it up looks far far worse than it happening in the first place?

    A sexual abuser is a one off, even the best organisation can have one. What represents the organisation is how they handle it.

  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular


    Well, theres one. If Labour want to be taken seriously as a party that defends sex abuse survivors then hopefully there's more to come.

    Mortiouslonelyahava
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I do believe, for the moment, that the party did not tell Jacinda the whole story.

    I fully believe that they kept the nature of all of the allegations from her. Why, who the hell knows, people are stupid.

    but I don't think she's really given me any reason to not believe her when she says "I was told there were complaints, but I was not told they were sexual"

  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    The spinoff's timeline paints a decent picture of her.

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/11-09-2019/timeline-labour-staffer-misconduct-inquiry/
    August 10

    Jacinda Ardern attends a meeting of the New Zealand Council, the governing body of the Labour Party, where she “expressed complete dissatisfaction with the way [the inquiry] had been handled by the Labour Party”. She “very seriously shared my view that they were not the appropriate place to undertake inquiries around concerning behaviour by members of the Labour Party, but particularly they are not the appropriate place to ever undertake an investigation into a sexual assault.”

    As leader she can't be responsible for everything. It just isn't humanly possible.

  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Hands up all vegan terrorists

    0gu8jmyhzlwk.jpeg


    Scott Ludlam has been going off on this nonsense, which is good because I can only look at it with the help of a tall glass of sarcasm

    chrishallett83AJRHappy Little MachineVegemyteKwoaru
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Just the other day Vegan Terrorists carrot bombed my entire street.

    Several people were disgruntled and one person had to chase their dog to retrieve the carrot.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
    tynicchrishallett83
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    "vegan terrorists" ==> "people who are protesting climate change" I think, since to live sustainably we should be eating less meat.

    Steam Community page: http://steamcommunity.com/id/discrider/
    Oh hey! A knife!
    chrishallett83
  • TeeManTeeMan BrainSpoon Registered User regular
    Might have a chat about that turn of phrase the next time I see my local member down at the library

    steam_sig.png
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    discrider wrote: »
    "vegan terrorists" ==> "people who are protesting climate change" I think, since to live sustainably we should be eating less meat.

    I mean we can draw the bow for them, sure, but it's still a fucking ridiculous turn of phrase.

    chrishallett83
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited September 11
    tynic wrote: »
    discrider wrote: »
    "vegan terrorists" ==> "people who are protesting climate change" I think, since to live sustainably we should be eating less meat.

    I mean we can draw the bow for them, sure, but it's still a fucking ridiculous turn of phrase.

    Not to the Liberal voters he's courting I fear.

    .. I might need more context for the quote honestly, as he could also be referring to people protesting on farms

    discrider on
    Steam Community page: http://steamcommunity.com/id/discrider/
    Oh hey! A knife!
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 11
    Yeah, I know. I'm pretty sure most of us managed to decode that dogwhistle. Him courting these people is exactly what I'm talking about re: reprehensible nonsense. If he'd said something like "playdoh fondlers" it would have been merely ignorable nonsense, not nonsense worth reacting to.

    also I'm not gonna let "things Liberal voters think are funny/reasonable" be my metric for "things that aren't goddamn stupid".

    tynic on
    chrishallett83
  • -SPI--SPI- Registered User regular
    Albanese is a disappointment that will become a half remembered footnote of history alongside names like Simon Crean and Bill Hayden.

    SurikotynicelectricitylikesmeplufimKafkaAUHappy Little MachineSolventVegemyteVivixenneRoad Blockchrishallett83Nechriah
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    -SPI- wrote: »
    Albanese is a disappointment that will become a half remembered footnote of history alongside names like Simon Crean and Bill Hayden.

    He's the Labor party leader.

    Of course he's a disappointment.

    Gotta go back several decades before you find one that wasn't.

    To be fair, same could be said of LNP. I didn't LIKE John Howard, I hated his positions, but for the most part, I respected the man, and I respected his political ability.

    KafkaAUNechriah
  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    this vegan terrorists shit isn't even going to work. you're not going to win elections by just doing exactly what the liberal party do

    tynicHappy Little Machinechrishallett83
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Wait, the Labor guy said that?

  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    "We lost an election and therefore must run screaming to the right" is unfortunately straight out of the usual Labor party playbook.

    electricitylikesmechrishallett83Nechriah
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Problem is, it makes electoral sense.
    I can't argue otherwise when the current Liberal government won off kicking their 'moderates' out.

    .. As I said in another thread, I listened to Marielle Smith's, Labor, entrance speech to the Senate, and she straight out said we were leaving a worse future for our kids.
    And I am increasingly despairing at the impotance of our democratic systems in handling collective action problems.

    Steam Community page: http://steamcommunity.com/id/discrider/
    Oh hey! A knife!
  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    Problem is, it makes electoral sense.
    I can't argue otherwise when the current Liberal government won off kicking their 'moderates' out.

    .. As I said in another thread, I listened to Marielle Smith's, Labor, entrance speech to the Senate, and she straight out said we were leaving a worse future for our kids.
    And I am increasingly despairing at the impotance of our democratic systems in handling collective action problems.

    no, it doesn't

    that's the whole thing

    they've been doing it for years and they keep losing elections

    the idea that swinging to the right makes electoral sense is a piece of conventional wisdom that we urgently need to break

    Happy Little MachineelectricitylikesmeVivixenneRoad Blockchrishallett83Nechriah
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    One thing is that the Libs ran on a whole bunch of misleading lies (Adani's prospects for revitalising the local economy among them). That doesn't really help future election strategizing much, but it's not like "presented with two honest, well-understood visions of the future, the electorate chose the shitty one", more like "Spoonfed a bunch of reassuring but dishonest bullshit, people decided to eat it up"

    Mind you at this point anyone who doesn't realise the LNP is merely the political arm of a bunch of amoral profiteers who can't be trusted to make a beer run must have their head encased in a concrete block. When it comes to australian elections, I basically throw up my hands and prepare to get really angry.

    discriderHappy Little Machinechrishallett83
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited September 12
    discrider wrote: »
    Problem is, it makes electoral sense.
    I can't argue otherwise when the current Liberal government won off kicking their 'moderates' out.

    .. As I said in another thread, I listened to Marielle Smith's, Labor, entrance speech to the Senate, and she straight out said we were leaving a worse future for our kids.
    And I am increasingly despairing at the impotance of our democratic systems in handling collective action problems.

    no, it doesn't

    that's the whole thing

    they've been doing it for years and they keep losing elections

    the idea that swinging to the right makes electoral sense is a piece of conventional wisdom that we urgently need to break

    If it doesn't make sense, how can the Liberals get away with ditching their own PM over climate policy, whilst deriding the kids that are protesting over it?
    I just don't see how they could be more toxic, although I'm sure they'll surprise me, and yet they managed to win in spite of themselves.

    So if we can't win against that, how will swinging left help Labor win at all?
    It won't weaken that base that ferried the Liberals to government again.

    We either have to somehow convince those voters that it's worth voting Labor on their own previous merits (looming recession perhaps), or Labor has to mirror Liberal policy somewhat to attract those voters.

    discrider on
    Steam Community page: http://steamcommunity.com/id/discrider/
    Oh hey! A knife!
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    I suppose there's also the propose nothing, oppose nothing, run on 'It's time for a change' strategy.

    Steam Community page: http://steamcommunity.com/id/discrider/
    Oh hey! A knife!
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    discrider wrote: »
    Problem is, it makes electoral sense.
    I can't argue otherwise when the current Liberal government won off kicking their 'moderates' out.

    .. As I said in another thread, I listened to Marielle Smith's, Labor, entrance speech to the Senate, and she straight out said we were leaving a worse future for our kids.
    And I am increasingly despairing at the impotance of our democratic systems in handling collective action problems.

    no, it doesn't

    that's the whole thing

    they've been doing it for years and they keep losing elections

    the idea that swinging to the right makes electoral sense is a piece of conventional wisdom that we urgently need to break

    If it doesn't make sense, how can the Liberals get away with ditching their own PM over climate policy, whilst deriding the kids that are protesting over it?
    I just don't see how they could be more toxic, although I'm sure they'll surprise me, and yet they managed to win in spite of themselves.

    The lie about Labor wanting to tax inheritance, plus Labor once again going after self funded retirees with negative gearing changes, wasn't exactly helpful. With the economy as bad as it is, you'll have both the parents wanting to have something to leave for their kids plus the kids wanting what's being left for them intact voting Liberal.

    chrishallett83
  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    it's certainly true that australian voters don't care at all about climate policy, and running on it is a non-starter

    however, nobody actually likes the coalition. everyone outside the base understands that they're a bunch of evil corrupt shitheads who don't care about anything beyond money. it's just that everyone also thinks that about labour

    voters are deeply unhappy with the state of politics at the moment, but they don't see a meaningful difference between the two parties, so it doesn't translate into a boost for the opposition. if you hate everyone equally and assume that everyone is lying you're just going to vote at random

    the way you cut through that, in terms of policy, is offering people stuff that will make an immediate material impact on their lives. healthcare, education, public transport, etc. and you need to convince people that you actually care about what they want - which entails going from door to door, personally asking them, building their needs into your platform and getting them involved in your movement

    i was involved in a campaign here in brisbane that was run on these principles and we got the biggest swing to the greens anywhere in the country, so i'm pretty convinced that it works

    Gvzbgulchrishallett83Nechriah
  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    ultimately, the liberals are going to lie. that's just how the game is played. complaining about it is like complaining that the enemy is shooting bullets at you in a war. they're an evil institution and they're designed to do evil things, you can't be too surprised about it

    chrishallett83
  • KelorKelor Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    "We lost an election and therefore must run screaming to the right" is unfortunately straight out of the usual Labor party playbook.

    Well the last one pissed away eight years of government because he thought he deserved to be PM, y'know, because.

    And then proceeded to lose in spectacular fashion. Twice.


    So over this mealy mouthed opposition, particularly from Albanese.


    Just look at the shit show amalgam of PMs the Libs have had and Labor couldn't win government.

    Maybe if they developed a fucking spine and pushed from a Federal ICAC so you started having MPs getting hit with fines and prison sentences for corrupt shit, the general public might see them in a more favourable light.

    But then you would have to clean house in your own party and not receive any sweetheart deals/kickbacks yourself.

    tynicHappy Little MachineCrimson KingdiscriderFencingsaxSolventelectricitylikesmeHeatwaveNechriah
  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    Labor have slowly but surely evolved into "the LNP but less overtly anti-QUILTBAG, but only slightly" over the last decade or so.

    We don't actually have a left-wing party that can be voted into parliament in a federal election - the Greens cannot manage to break into the double digits of the national vote count, largely because almost nobody has ever actually READ their policy page, they just take the Murdoch media at face value when they scream about the Greens wanting to jail all conservatives and murder their children. As for Labor, they've been shifting further and further rightward since John Hewson failed to sell the GST to the Australian public, they're barely left-wing at all - if it weren't for some of the bigger unions desperately clinging to Labor in a bold-faced attempt to retain political power then Labor would be considered right-wing by the majority of the voting populace.

    MorganVtynicNechriah
  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    edited September 12
    nobody actually reads policy pages. it just doesn't happen. people say they will but they absolutely won't, and that's ok

    i did hundreds of doorknocks and i don't think i got asked a single policy question

    Crimson King on
    chrishallett83tynicUnlucky
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    you have to be a real nerd (hi!) to actually go and seek out detailed party policy, let alone individual candidates. If people don't see it on the tv sandwiched between chunks of Neighbours then it pretty much doesn't exist, electorally speaking.

    chrishallett83Unlucky
  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    3DS 0302-0029-3193 NNID plufim steam plufim PSN plufim
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    chrishallett83
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Is that really a "gaffe"?

  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    When old white rich dudes do a racism, yes.

    3DS 0302-0029-3193 NNID plufim steam plufim PSN plufim
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    MorganVFencingsaxchrishallett83
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    Is that really a "gaffe"?

    No, it’s a lie. He not only is on camera saying it, he posted it to his Facebook page.

    Gvzbgulchrishallett83
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    Is that really a "gaffe"?

    No, it’s a lie. He not only is on camera saying it, he posted it to his Facebook page.

    So.... he's attempting the Trump philosophy of just denying he ever said the original thing, doubling down, and hoping the media capitulates on it.

    Bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for him.

    And no, that's not being facetious. With the Labor party abdicating leadership potential, if it fails to pay off, he can always flip on it. And if it does happen, it'll pay dividends moving forward.

    With Trump in the US, and BoJo in the UK, we're definitely trending towards a "truth is relative" reality. Because people are too partisan, or too lazy, to reject the premise.

    chrishallett83plufim
  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
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