[Australian & NZ Politics] New Zealand Decided. Hm!

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  • AntoshkaAntoshka Miauen Oil Change LazarusRegistered User regular
    edited October 18
    Fishman wrote: »
    I think this might have been my favourite part of the night:

    For my part, it was later in the broadcast : https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=DpSZj4qImNE&t=14515 , when they decided to rip into Advance NZ ( not sure if the timestamp will work)

    Edit: Though, Tova's interview with Jaimie Lee Ross today was, I felt, also in line with the level of coverage I feel they deserve:

    Antoshka on
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  • exisexis Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    I really hope that means that Labour will enact some of their bigger policies, like higher tax brackets and capital gains on rental properties.

    I believe she was elected on a strict promise of never implementing a capital gains tax.

    But I am all for a CGT on properties beyond your first (EG Rentals).

    Yeah, it's unfortunate that the she was effectively backed into a corner where she needed to guarantee no CGT ever while she was leader, in order to appease a decent swathe of middle/upper middle class voters. This despite her openly saying she is in favour of a CGT and would prefer one was enacted.

    Yet another symptom of our seriously problematic housing situation. As a nation we are overleveraged and over-invested in residential property. Rental homes are the de facto investment for any 'average' family that has the equity to begin with. Rather than being an extra income stream for the extra wealthy, we now have a lot of folks who buying second and third properties (all mortgaged up to the eyeballs, of course). The current boom fueled by low interest rates is just exacerbating the situation. CGT is getting less and less palatable to voters as more of those voters become dependent on future capital gains, because all of their wealth is tied up in properties rather than being invested in anything that's actually useful for a functioning economy.

    Shit's fucked, yo.

    FishmanAegeriAntoshka
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    I mean, Aus still has CGT though.
    It doesn't sound like the housing investment bubble is any different here.
    Still people investing in property rather than anything else, assuming that they aren't sequestering the money away in superannuation.

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  • TefTef Registered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    I mean, Aus still has CGT though.
    It doesn't sound like the housing investment bubble is any different here.
    Still people investing in property rather than anything else, assuming that they aren't sequestering the money away in superannuation.

    It’s indicative of how profitable they have made the market and also how much the NZ landlords are gouging people. It would be a great source of funds for the government

    Negative gearing needs to go too

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  • exisexis Registered User regular
    Tef wrote: »
    discrider wrote: »
    I mean, Aus still has CGT though.
    It doesn't sound like the housing investment bubble is any different here.
    Still people investing in property rather than anything else, assuming that they aren't sequestering the money away in superannuation.

    It’s indicative of how profitable they have made the market and also how much the NZ landlords are gouging people. It would be a great source of funds for the government

    Negative gearing needs to go too

    Yeah I don't think CGT would solve the housing crisis, but the cash would definitely be useful for the budget. It's just that the nature of our housing market means the horse has probably bolted on ever getting CGT approved in NZ, short of some drastic market readjustment.

  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    Hey, New Zealand? THANK YOU

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  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    plufim wrote: »
    Hey, New Zealand? THANK YOU

    I'm assuming you mean for providing a useful piece of optimism to the world?

    Cause, if so, you're welcome. And we're just as relieved as you.

    AntoshkaTefMcFodderplufimJragghen
  • AntoshkaAntoshka Miauen Oil Change LazarusRegistered User regular
    exis wrote: »
    Tef wrote: »
    discrider wrote: »
    I mean, Aus still has CGT though.
    It doesn't sound like the housing investment bubble is any different here.
    Still people investing in property rather than anything else, assuming that they aren't sequestering the money away in superannuation.

    It’s indicative of how profitable they have made the market and also how much the NZ landlords are gouging people. It would be a great source of funds for the government

    Negative gearing needs to go too

    Yeah I don't think CGT would solve the housing crisis, but the cash would definitely be useful for the budget. It's just that the nature of our housing market means the horse has probably bolted on ever getting CGT approved in NZ, short of some drastic market readjustment.

    I mean, there are several issues with our housing market, but the one that concerns me most is that it's the only investment that really makes sense - the returns, currently, are so much higher than any alternative that's readily available to most. So, basically, in addition to our market being an ever inflating bubble, we're also making it a lot harder to build anything that's an alternative. At the very least, I'd like to see the incentives change on that, even if just a bit. Unfortunately, because it's also an ever inflating bubble, and it's also the only kind of investment most of the public will ever engage in, it's pretty much politically untouchable - I'm really not sure how we get out of it, without a massive collapse

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Even just a flattening of the market would scare most investors off. I hope.

  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    For those of you hoping for a flattening of demand in the New Zealand housing market, consider how much value your nations demonstrated capability to "cooperatively and quickly quell outbreaks of Covid19" is worth. Even if this virus finds a vaccine and is brought under control, you are going to be flooded with people looking for a place where cooperation, kindness and respect for science can keep their families safe from future outbreaks.

    Its not going to be a huge fraction of the world population, and clearly if you keep your borders closed to everyone forever it won't be a factor, but there will definitely be wealthy pandemic 'refugees' wanting to move to New Zealand because they no longer trust their own nations to keep them safe.

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  • THAC0THAC0 Registered User regular
    Antoshka wrote: »

    Edit: Though, Tova's interview with Jaimie Lee Ross today was, I felt, also in line with the level of coverage I feel they deserve:


    This is so great. Oh man hahaaha. I'm gonna come back and watch this again when I get lunch

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  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    THAC0 wrote: »
    Antoshka wrote: »

    Edit: Though, Tova's interview with Jaimie Lee Ross today was, I felt, also in line with the level of coverage I feel they deserve:


    This is so great. Oh man hahaaha. I'm gonna come back and watch this again when I get lunch

    Ah the old "The death toll is low" chestnut, that is only reflective of what happens when a country actually cares about the outbreak and actively tries to do something about it. Meanwhile, we can see from places in the US and similar, that you're going to get an impressive death toll if you do nothing about it or fail in your response.

    Plus death toll won't be the only metric that we're going to have to sort out: The increased morbidity and apparent permanent additional health problems might be a lingering future curse on health care systems that have failed to widely contain the outbreak.

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  • exisexis Registered User regular
    edited October 19
    Tova O'Brien seemed like the right person for that interview. Overall I've been fairly happy with how little attention the big media orgs here have given to the conspiracy theorists.

    exis on
    Antoshka
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Looking at the fallout from the ACT election, our electoral process is crazy.
    Party members are listed in random order from ballot paper to ballot paper, so no party can provide an inherent preference in which of their members should appear at the top of the paper.

    So random party members are being voted in at the expense of others of the same party.

    Also looking at a large Green swing, with a Labor coalition to take power.
    And the Liberals looking at 'perpetual opposition' if they don't become less conservative, in the words of a party detractor.

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  • TefTef Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    For those of you hoping for a flattening of demand in the New Zealand housing market, consider how much value your nations demonstrated capability to "cooperatively and quickly quell outbreaks of Covid19" is worth. Even if this virus finds a vaccine and is brought under control, you are going to be flooded with people looking for a place where cooperation, kindness and respect for science can keep their families safe from future outbreaks.

    Its not going to be a huge fraction of the world population, and clearly if you keep your borders closed to everyone forever it won't be a factor, but there will definitely be wealthy pandemic 'refugees' wanting to move to New Zealand because they no longer trust their own nations to keep them safe.
    Our primary producers are doing gang busters too. 100% pure nz, baby

    Shame they refuse to pay their workers a fair wage and not exploit them!

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  • chr1sh4ll3ttb3chr1sh4ll3ttb3 A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    ... ahahahaha. Please gods, give me this, let's see four leaders in one year. Please
    Okay, back to laughing

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  • FishmanFishman There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world. It would be a pity to damage yours. Registered User regular
    Here's a thing:
    Jacinda Ardern has been quietly, well, not quite criticised for the possibility of marrying Clarke Gayford, but it has been pointed out that such an event would probably drive her popularity higher and that it would be cynical to do so prior to the election as it could be seen as politically manipulative. So it hasn't been so much as mentioned.

    But this massive landslide victory actually gives her a window to get married, if that's what she wants, sometime in the next year or so. This victory gives her the political freedom to do what she wants.

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    exis wrote: »
    Tova O'Brien seemed like the right person for that interview. Overall I've been fairly happy with how little attention the big media orgs here have given to the conspiracy theorists.
    I feel the opposite. They've given the nutters plenty of positive attention. When it comes to this election, it seems like it has mostly been nutter coverage. And I get that it isn't entirely the media's fault, there's only so many ways you can have "Labour still have a convincing lead" as a story. And nutters are fascinating.

    I do wish reporters would treat real political parties with the derision and pointed attacks they'd spent on the nutters though. It was refreshing to see some teeth.

  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I always figured there were people out there who would be whinging about an unwed mother leading the nation.

    I found it very heartening that none of that made its way to the front pages.

    It's been a big inspiration for me, honestly. Even as a wedded mother. To see this young woman, who is only a year older than me, become who she has, while also in a loving relationship on her own terms.

    What could be more emblematic of the values of this nation that I'm hoping will adopt me.

    I try to remind myself that she's just an ordinary person and shouldn't be on a pedestal. But it gives me hope for Ellie's future.

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  • AntoshkaAntoshka Miauen Oil Change LazarusRegistered User regular
    Fishman wrote: »
    Here's a thing:
    Jacinda Ardern has been quietly, well, not quite criticised for the possibility of marrying Clarke Gayford, but it has been pointed out that such an event would probably drive her popularity higher and that it would be cynical to do so prior to the election as it could be seen as politically manipulative. So it hasn't been so much as mentioned.

    But this massive landslide victory actually gives her a window to get married, if that's what she wants, sometime in the next year or so. This victory gives her the political freedom to do what she wants.

    I have to admit, I had no clue they weren't already, and I feel somewhat bad that I just assumed. On the other hand, I'm surprised this wasn't brought up as a attack at some point, so that seems good?

    On the other,other hand, I feel very bad that this kind of political decision making is possibly even part of what she would consider on that kind of decision.

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    edited October 19
    Not in the media but plenty of rumours flying on facebook.
    Edit- I shouldn't blame facebook, I've heard people spreading rumours irl too. In fact, probably more often irl?

    Gvzbgul on
  • FishmanFishman There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world. It would be a pity to damage yours. Registered User regular
    One other thing I thought interesting:
    It was known that during the last couple months that Jacinda Ardern has been refusing foreign media requests, because the international plaudits are essentially fan puff pieces that talk up her strengths and gloss over criticisms, which was seen as actually being potentially negative for her popularity in NZ.
    This is in part tall poppy, but also just that NZ doesn't generally go in for uncritical lionisation and values honest balanced good-and-bad coverage of their leaders, and it was thought that the kind of coverage Ardern gets in overseas media would play poorly in the domestic market.

    As cultural values go, that's one I feel would be good to hold on to.

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  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Definitely agree.

    The cynical take is that she's fine a good job at the politics.

    I'm pretty happy with this to continue

  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Our PMs tend to get a lot of hate. Not from everyone but there's always a segment of the population who seems to hate their guts. Helen Clark got it pretty bad, and John Key too (note to any politicians, just give up on hotdogs, it's not worth it). I think the Jacinda hate has been the weirdest because she's, rather unusually, quite popular too and people are actually excited about her as opposed to neutral to mild enthusiasm.

  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    I mean, key was a creep who deserved the hate. He was just gross, and his "everyone's mate you could have a beer with" shickt was yeurgh when you put it next to stuff like the whole hair pulling.

    Or you know, the damage national did to various support structures and equality measures.

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  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I wonder if any male politician would be advised to hold off on their wedding for fear it would be seen as political.

    I'm now rather grumpy about this.

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  • AntoshkaAntoshka Miauen Oil Change LazarusRegistered User regular
    I wonder if any male politician would be advised to hold off on their wedding for fear it would be seen as political.

    I'm now rather grumpy about this.

    I think we all know that they wouldn't. And yes, that is irritating as hell.

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  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    It was like one of those American feel good stories about a community coming together to raise money to pay off a wheelchair or to pay off lunch debts.

    It's so nice and heartwarming on the surface. But then..... But then....

    And now you're angry.

  • exisexis Registered User regular
    Antoshka wrote: »
    Fishman wrote: »
    Here's a thing:
    Jacinda Ardern has been quietly, well, not quite criticised for the possibility of marrying Clarke Gayford, but it has been pointed out that such an event would probably drive her popularity higher and that it would be cynical to do so prior to the election as it could be seen as politically manipulative. So it hasn't been so much as mentioned.

    But this massive landslide victory actually gives her a window to get married, if that's what she wants, sometime in the next year or so. This victory gives her the political freedom to do what she wants.

    I have to admit, I had no clue they weren't already, and I feel somewhat bad that I just assumed. On the other hand, I'm surprised this wasn't brought up as a attack at some point, so that seems good?

    On the other,other hand, I feel very bad that this kind of political decision making is possibly even part of what she would consider on that kind of decision.
    I think it's used as a slur in some of the more unhinged conservative circles. I'm assuming it's been dragged up by Hosking et al at some point. Also in the first leader's debate Collins repeatedly and pointedly referred to the PM as Miss Ardern which I think was an attempted dog whistle that fell flat.
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    exis wrote: »
    Tova O'Brien seemed like the right person for that interview. Overall I've been fairly happy with how little attention the big media orgs here have given to the conspiracy theorists.
    I feel the opposite. They've given the nutters plenty of positive attention. When it comes to this election, it seems like it has mostly been nutter coverage. And I get that it isn't entirely the media's fault, there's only so many ways you can have "Labour still have a convincing lead" as a story. And nutters are fascinating.

    I do wish reporters would treat real political parties with the derision and pointed attacks they'd spent on the nutters though. It was refreshing to see some teeth.
    After paying closer attention to international politics over the past year (or rather, domestic politics of other countries), I feel like mainstream NZ media comes off pretty well, relatively. As an example, at least in the reporting I saw, there was very little time dedicated to parroting Advance NZ's policies without inspection. I'm sure it's out there, and I'm sure we could do a lot better. But across the world, the bar is pretty low these days. I'm happy there's some effort to clear it.

    lonelyahava
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Any indications on how the referendums are going to shake out?

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  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    They were both pretty close for a while

  • FishmanFishman There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world. It would be a pity to damage yours. Registered User regular
    The Green/Red tide being larger swing than predicted and the high voter turnout might indicate a participation by infrequent progressive voters, which would favour cannabis reform, and end-of-life to a lesser extent. I wouldn't want to put money against cannabis at this point, based on Saturday's result.

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  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    edited October 20
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    Although eww at friendlyjordies on the card

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    exis wrote: »
    Tova O'Brien seemed like the right person for that interview. Overall I've been fairly happy with how little attention the big media orgs here have given to the conspiracy theorists.
    I feel the opposite. They've given the nutters plenty of positive attention. When it comes to this election, it seems like it has mostly been nutter coverage. And I get that it isn't entirely the media's fault, there's only so many ways you can have "Labour still have a convincing lead" as a story. And nutters are fascinating.

    I do wish reporters would treat real political parties with the derision and pointed attacks they'd spent on the nutters though. It was refreshing to see some teeth.
    After paying closer attention to international politics over the past year (or rather, domestic politics of other countries), I feel like mainstream NZ media comes off pretty well, relatively. As an example, at least in the reporting I saw, there was very little time dedicated to parroting Advance NZ's policies without inspection. I'm sure it's out there, and I'm sure we could do a lot better. But across the world, the bar is pretty low these days. I'm happy there's some effort to clear it.[/quote]
    Sure. I just think they recieved an undue amount coverage. Eg. I'm not a fan of TOP but while TOP got more votes they recieved a fraction of the attention of the Advance party.

  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    edited October 20
    The New Zealand travel bubble has expanded to include South Australia!

    Probably to try and deflect the embarrassment for the federal government when 12 tourists rocked up here a few days ago when the bubble only included NSW and NT*, but still! International travel! You could visit my state and uh.... well get plastered on local wine. It's 90% of our tourism.

    *Not probably, definitely. Birmingham was asking for this change this morning. Yet somehow blamed Andrews for the New Zealanders who ended up in Victoria, but like, if SA had to opt in why was it Victoria's fault when they explicitly asked to be excluded?


    (Because SA has an LNP state government while Vic has a Labor one).

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  • FishmanFishman There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world. It would be a pity to damage yours. Registered User regular
    edited October 20
    My wife got to meet and chat with Ashley Bloomfield last night. :+1:

    Fishman on
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  • exisexis Registered User regular
    Seems like Patrick Gower enjoyed himself.

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  • VikingViking Registered User regular
    Ugh, I can not escape these Palmer United ads.

    They seem to be everywhere.

    which means it is time again for another round of....
    FUCK OFF CLIVE

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