Did any of the other kiwis watch the leaders debate last night?
I didn't and was just curious for impressions.
Yes. Basic impression was that Ardern was polite, and mostly speaking of investment, very much a 'stay the course'. Collins was frequently speaking over, was basically relying on National being seen as better on the economy, made some incredibly bizarre corrections (at one point correcting John that, actually, her trust owns her second property).
Needless to say, I didn't find either massively compelling in the format, but overall I'd say Collins performed better than I expected. ( This is not to say I agreed with much, if anything of what she was trying to sell). My most irritating point the night was both of them saying no capital gains taxes. ( Though Ardern was clear that she thought it would help, she was also clear that voters appear not to want it).
Reading the analysis this morning, myain takeaway was that I really, really wish national would lose this idiotic 'natural economic managers' label the seem to have, for some reason.
National was in during the GFC and seemed to do well. I'm not a economist though, this is just my impression.
Yes and no. They did quite well keeping the ship afloat, but some of this was done by kicking parts of the can down the road, and not addressing things like housing inflation or wage deflation as it kept the books in the black on paper, even as cost of living and affordability and inequality went up. However, they did a good job of hiding this from papers at the time, so the general feeling was they were doing better than they really were.
Key and English still get a passing mark - just - for keeping things going in very difficult circumstances. However, as time has gone on and we've come to understand the long-term damage that was done and how much work will be needed to undo it the general opinion of their management has gone down from "very good" to "alright, could have done better".
And Key and English aren't there any more.
Goldsmith, for what it's worth, does actually seem competent (as evidenced by the fact he's held the prestigious finance spokesperson role through 3 leadership changes), one of the few in National caucus. But he's one of the only ones. And it turns out Grant Robertson isn't that bad, either, so there's not actually much to attack there. I'm sure Goldsmith would be decent, but Robertson is just fine, so whatevs.
The terrifying thing right now is that neither Labour or National - the two major parties in NZ - actually have strong cabinet candidates. Labour has about 6 people before you start wondering if these people know what they're doing. National have... maybe 4. Both parties are badly lacking in depth that I can't recall going back to about the Muldoon era.
Uh...I don't know much about Australian politics, but isn't this walking straight into a housing bubble? Again? Because if so, it seems pretty bad news.
TryCatcher on
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
It’s walking right into another financial crisis. This is one of the primary things that led to the GFC. Allowing people to borrow without verifying they can actually pay it off is a Bad Idea.
The LNP is so bad at economics. If only people researched that rather than believe the perpetually repeated lie at voting time.
I’ve just applied for some home loans and the bank was prepared to lend me a substantial amount of money. The verification already felt like it wasn’t strict enough. This is not going to end well for some people.
This is going to end catastrophically badly. It's pretty close to the whole foreign currency loans fiasco from 80s (sure, consumers could have figured out this might go wrong...but didn't).
So, I don't think this has been enacted into law yet.
Last week, there were noises about the upper house wanting to look into what the announcement would mean, and not wanting people to fall into debt traps.
But at least we'll get fibre to the premises (if we pay) while they're goosing the economy.
It’s walking right into another financial crisis. This is one of the primary things that led to the GFC. Allowing people to borrow without verifying they can actually pay it off is a Bad Idea.
The LNP is so bad at economics. If only people researched that rather than believe the perpetually repeated lie at voting time.
Yes, but hopefully it won't happen for another 4-8 years and they won't be in power anymore so they can blame labor. Not that labor not being power has ever actually stopped the LNP blaming things on them...
Honestly, it smells like something to keep house prices high after moritoriums run out and landlords start finding they can't service the loans on their investment properties.
Honestly, it smells like something to keep house prices high after moritoriums run out and landlords start finding they can't service the loans on their investment properties.
This was my first thought too.
I’m looking at buying, but I’ve been waiting the last four or five years to see where the market goes.
Whatever party holds federal government, they’re going to do their damnest to make sure the bubble doesn’t pop.
Investment houses can’t have a risk associated with them!
Honestly, it smells like something to keep house prices high after moritoriums run out and landlords start finding they can't service the loans on their investment properties.
This was my first thought too.
I’m looking at buying, but I’ve been waiting the last four or five years to see where the market goes.
Whatever party holds federal government, they’re going to do their damnest to make sure the bubble doesn’t pop.
Investment houses can’t have a risk associated with them!
I mean not amongst the group which owns a huge number of properties per person.
lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
i'm super excited to watch the translations since i've been taking Sign class for the last few months.
It's such a great language, really. Very intuitive in the signs. Although I am struggle street with grammar. It is nowhere near a 1:1 translation and NZSL cuts out a *lot* f superfluous words that English puts in.
But man.
It's a lot of fun to be able to watch the briefings etc and almost be able to know what's being said.
I get a bit worried about house prices in NZ. There's obvious problems but neither major party has the will (or the brains?) to do anything about it.
I was idly wondering if "housing anxiety" might become a thing in NZ similar to "economic anxiety" in the US. People want to live in their own house and the easy scapegoat is foreigners. But the more I thought about it the more I realized it's already here. Labour did the embarresing "Chinese-looking names" survey and the Maori party are going hard on anti-immigrant rhetoric for this election "why should we let people in and give them houses* when we can't even house our own people?".
*"give them houses" meaning John was talking about refugees, even if he didn't explicitly mention them.
Anyway. I don't think any real party wants to fix the problems with housing and while they do nothing to fix it the "housing anxiety" is only gonna get worse. :rotate:
I get a bit worried about house prices in NZ. There's obvious problems but neither major party has the will (or the brains?) to do anything about it.
I was idly wondering if "housing anxiety" might become a thing in NZ similar to "economic anxiety" in the US. People want to live in their own house and the easy scapegoat is foreigners. But the more I thought about it the more I realized it's already here. Labour did the embarresing "Chinese-looking names" survey and the Maori party are going hard on anti-immigrant rhetoric for this election "why should we let people in and give them houses* when we can't even house our own people?".
*"give them houses" meaning John was talking about refugees, even if he didn't explicitly mention them.
Anyway. I don't think any real party wants to fix the problems with housing and while they do nothing to fix it the "housing anxiety" is only gonna get worse. :rotate:
Not having a capital gains tax is incredibly fucked up, for one thing
I'm a little wary of our state (Victoria)'s COVID numbers. We're trending down, but the last few day's new COVID case numbers have been 5, 10, 13, 15... I just can't shake the feeling that dumb people are going to fuck this up again for all of us and we're going to get a third wave. Not helped by the totally maskless man I saw wandering around the supermarket today, and the 10-15 people all huddled together outside a cafe having a conversation, drinking coffees with their masks around their chins.
Just follow the fucking rules you fucks! I want to be able to see my family at Christmas!
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FishmanPut your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain.Registered Userregular
I get a bit worried about house prices in NZ. There's obvious problems but neither major party has the will (or the brains?) to do anything about it.
I was idly wondering if "housing anxiety" might become a thing in NZ similar to "economic anxiety" in the US. People want to live in their own house and the easy scapegoat is foreigners. But the more I thought about it the more I realized it's already here. Labour did the embarresing "Chinese-looking names" survey and the Maori party are going hard on anti-immigrant rhetoric for this election "why should we let people in and give them houses* when we can't even house our own people?".
*"give them houses" meaning John was talking about refugees, even if he didn't explicitly mention them.
Anyway. I don't think any real party wants to fix the problems with housing and while they do nothing to fix it the "housing anxiety" is only gonna get worse. :rotate:
Tongue-in-cheek, have you had this post in your drafts since 2016? :rotate:
Okay, there's a few points here but a lot of it is *perception* rather than reality.
Labour has been doing a lot to free up supply-side issues - while Kiwibuild has been spectacularly underwhelming at helping kiwis get on the home ownership ladder (and therefore taking all the negative headlines), their state housing work in Kainga Ora has actually been really good. Their work at replacing the RMA is positive, they've done good things to free up local governments to enable intensification, and while they can't immediately solve the loss of tradies resulting from the axing of the apprenticeship programs in the 90's, they have done a lot to restore them so we hopefully we will eventually see a return to healthy levels of construction capacity and capabilty.
Unfortunately this has has hardly moved the needle, in part because it take a while for the effects of these changes to take effect, and in part because growth (only a part of which is immigration) has continued to move faster than then even the now-improved house building environment.
The problem is the issue is complex and the solution requires adjustment in more than one area; and moreover, working through these issues is not something that can be done and see results inside a single term of government.
Jacinda Ardern's "We need CGT, but I want to take the populace with me" is a fucking cop-out, and the wealth protection inequalities continue to provide perverse distorion to the property market. So the economic side is still a bit of a dog's breakfast (although Grant Robertson has said he'd like to discuss some of my wife's tax ideas for this with her). But in terms of actually trying to free up supply-side issues, Labour has been doing a reasonbable job of front footing the hospital pass National gave them.
Collins seemed to want some prices to go down maybe, Arden said no.
Which... *sigh*
Nice double whammy after i spent the evening arguing with my parents about housing and the homelessness crisis, and getting replies that basically went to "But the landlords"
To which, you know: Fuuuck that. Anyone owning multiple houses is just... immoral.
*Sigh*
I'm on the fucking benefit. I'm in a rented house. getting a dog or similar would be AMAZING for my mental health. the chances i can do this anytime soon given that combo of factors is nill - our landlords wont even allow a cat.
Oh also while I am feeling pissed off, all the bullshit whining from farmers that no kiwi will work on the farms for $25/hour? That is complete and utter bullshit. I don't want to explain how in a public forum for fear of outing myself, but farmers, particularly fruit growers, are parasites on NZ.
Edit: oh, and told by a landlord on Monday a "hilarious" story. a single mum begged her landlord not to install a heater in her house. She said she knew it would drive her rent up and she could barely keep the power on as it is. Response was, 'it's the law to have it and hey, somebody has to pay for it!'
There's people walking around everywhere with masks around their chins, or just not wearing them at all, and a bunch of people decided to have beach parties because the weather was nice. We're fucked. We're going to be back in lockdown for Christmas and the whole time the murdoch media is going to be bleating about how Dictator Dan is stealing Christmas. I hate people. I'm about ready for the giant meteor that wipes out all life on earth that must surely be the capstone for 2020.
Jacqui Lambie's voting No on the arbitrary banning of innocuous items from immigration detainees.
Based on these responses to her questions: https://www.lambienetwork.com.au/surveyresults
Map of responses:
Somehow tax cuts for the economy still works out as giving people over 100k more money then those under it, and literally none of that money is going to be spent.
At this point I'm glad my new job is entirely based on foreign income, because we're fucked.
Somehow tax cuts for the economy still works out as giving people over 100k more money then those under it, and literally none of that money is going to be spent.
At this point I'm glad my new job is entirely based on foreign income, because we're fucked.
That people don't have a fundamental understanding of taxation, is going to fuck us all, hard.
Granted, we've got some special circumstances at the moment, but I'd rather see a stimulus package for those that are under/unemployed, and keep taxes as they are. Because it's going to be harder to roll those tax cuts off, and for every dollar not paid in tax, is a dollar not spent on roads, schools, infrastructure, etc.
I hear people bitching all the time about how everything is underfunded. But mention paying more in taxes, and they'll go for your throat.
Posts
Yes. Basic impression was that Ardern was polite, and mostly speaking of investment, very much a 'stay the course'. Collins was frequently speaking over, was basically relying on National being seen as better on the economy, made some incredibly bizarre corrections (at one point correcting John that, actually, her trust owns her second property).
Needless to say, I didn't find either massively compelling in the format, but overall I'd say Collins performed better than I expected. ( This is not to say I agreed with much, if anything of what she was trying to sell). My most irritating point the night was both of them saying no capital gains taxes. ( Though Ardern was clear that she thought it would help, she was also clear that voters appear not to want it).
Reading the analysis this morning, myain takeaway was that I really, really wish national would lose this idiotic 'natural economic managers' label the seem to have, for some reason.
Yes and no. They did quite well keeping the ship afloat, but some of this was done by kicking parts of the can down the road, and not addressing things like housing inflation or wage deflation as it kept the books in the black on paper, even as cost of living and affordability and inequality went up. However, they did a good job of hiding this from papers at the time, so the general feeling was they were doing better than they really were.
Key and English still get a passing mark - just - for keeping things going in very difficult circumstances. However, as time has gone on and we've come to understand the long-term damage that was done and how much work will be needed to undo it the general opinion of their management has gone down from "very good" to "alright, could have done better".
And Key and English aren't there any more.
Goldsmith, for what it's worth, does actually seem competent (as evidenced by the fact he's held the prestigious finance spokesperson role through 3 leadership changes), one of the few in National caucus. But he's one of the only ones. And it turns out Grant Robertson isn't that bad, either, so there's not actually much to attack there. I'm sure Goldsmith would be decent, but Robertson is just fine, so whatevs.
The terrifying thing right now is that neither Labour or National - the two major parties in NZ - actually have strong cabinet candidates. Labour has about 6 people before you start wondering if these people know what they're doing. National have... maybe 4. Both parties are badly lacking in depth that I can't recall going back to about the Muldoon era.
Uh...I don't know much about Australian politics, but isn't this walking straight into a housing bubble? Again? Because if so, it seems pretty bad news.
The LNP is so bad at economics. If only people researched that rather than believe the perpetually repeated lie at voting time.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
Sorry for the rough times ahead.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
Last week, there were noises about the upper house wanting to look into what the announcement would mean, and not wanting people to fall into debt traps.
But at least we'll get fibre to the premises (if we pay) while they're goosing the economy.
Yes, but hopefully it won't happen for another 4-8 years and they won't be in power anymore so they can blame labor. Not that labor not being power has ever actually stopped the LNP blaming things on them...
This was my first thought too.
I’m looking at buying, but I’ve been waiting the last four or five years to see where the market goes.
Whatever party holds federal government, they’re going to do their damnest to make sure the bubble doesn’t pop.
Investment houses can’t have a risk associated with them!
I mean not amongst the group which owns a huge number of properties per person.
I mostly didn't either.
I did see the first 5 minutes, and I thought this was cool:
It's such a great language, really. Very intuitive in the signs. Although I am struggle street with grammar. It is nowhere near a 1:1 translation and NZSL cuts out a *lot* f superfluous words that English puts in.
But man.
It's a lot of fun to be able to watch the briefings etc and almost be able to know what's being said.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
I was idly wondering if "housing anxiety" might become a thing in NZ similar to "economic anxiety" in the US. People want to live in their own house and the easy scapegoat is foreigners. But the more I thought about it the more I realized it's already here. Labour did the embarresing "Chinese-looking names" survey and the Maori party are going hard on anti-immigrant rhetoric for this election "why should we let people in and give them houses* when we can't even house our own people?".
*"give them houses" meaning John was talking about refugees, even if he didn't explicitly mention them.
Anyway. I don't think any real party wants to fix the problems with housing and while they do nothing to fix it the "housing anxiety" is only gonna get worse. :rotate:
Not having a capital gains tax is incredibly fucked up, for one thing
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
Just follow the fucking rules you fucks! I want to be able to see my family at Christmas!
Tongue-in-cheek, have you had this post in your drafts since 2016? :rotate:
Okay, there's a few points here but a lot of it is *perception* rather than reality.
Labour has been doing a lot to free up supply-side issues - while Kiwibuild has been spectacularly underwhelming at helping kiwis get on the home ownership ladder (and therefore taking all the negative headlines), their state housing work in Kainga Ora has actually been really good. Their work at replacing the RMA is positive, they've done good things to free up local governments to enable intensification, and while they can't immediately solve the loss of tradies resulting from the axing of the apprenticeship programs in the 90's, they have done a lot to restore them so we hopefully we will eventually see a return to healthy levels of construction capacity and capabilty.
Unfortunately this has has hardly moved the needle, in part because it take a while for the effects of these changes to take effect, and in part because growth (only a part of which is immigration) has continued to move faster than then even the now-improved house building environment.
The problem is the issue is complex and the solution requires adjustment in more than one area; and moreover, working through these issues is not something that can be done and see results inside a single term of government.
Jacinda Ardern's "We need CGT, but I want to take the populace with me" is a fucking cop-out, and the wealth protection inequalities continue to provide perverse distorion to the property market. So the economic side is still a bit of a dog's breakfast (although Grant Robertson has said he'd like to discuss some of my wife's tax ideas for this with her). But in terms of actually trying to free up supply-side issues, Labour has been doing a reasonbable job of front footing the hospital pass National gave them.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
@lonelyahava
Collins seemed to want some prices to go down maybe, Arden said no.
Which... *sigh*
Nice double whammy after i spent the evening arguing with my parents about housing and the homelessness crisis, and getting replies that basically went to "But the landlords"
To which, you know: Fuuuck that. Anyone owning multiple houses is just... immoral.
*Sigh*
I'm on the fucking benefit. I'm in a rented house. getting a dog or similar would be AMAZING for my mental health. the chances i can do this anytime soon given that combo of factors is nill - our landlords wont even allow a cat.
*swearing*
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Edit: oh, and told by a landlord on Monday a "hilarious" story. a single mum begged her landlord not to install a heater in her house. She said she knew it would drive her rent up and she could barely keep the power on as it is. Response was, 'it's the law to have it and hey, somebody has to pay for it!'
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
And yeah, that's so... so funny. Hilarious.
Fucking landlords.
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Just a nice sunny walk down to the library.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
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But people will probably wear the valved ones then.
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We have our own citrus golem. I believe this came up in 2017:
https://mobile.twitter.com/ajemaineclement/status/910757562970021888?lang=en
Based on these responses to her questions: https://www.lambienetwork.com.au/surveyresults
Map of responses:
At this point I'm glad my new job is entirely based on foreign income, because we're fucked.
That people don't have a fundamental understanding of taxation, is going to fuck us all, hard.
Granted, we've got some special circumstances at the moment, but I'd rather see a stimulus package for those that are under/unemployed, and keep taxes as they are. Because it's going to be harder to roll those tax cuts off, and for every dollar not paid in tax, is a dollar not spent on roads, schools, infrastructure, etc.
I hear people bitching all the time about how everything is underfunded. But mention paying more in taxes, and they'll go for your throat.