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[Australian & NZ Politics] 'Straya's closed

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Posts

  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    The reasoning I heard is that the petrol tax pays for road maintenance, and electric cars are heavier than petrol cars so they cause more road damage, meaning more maintenance costs, while not contributing to the maintenance fund with petrol taxes.

    My solution would be to increase the petrol tax to subsidise electric cars, because taxes should be used to improve behaviour, but at least they're doing it for a reason and not just because they're in bed with the petrol companies or something.

    AnteCantelope on
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    Im trying to think of reasonable answers.

    Best I can come up with is "at least it's still less than a fuel car"? It is right?

    I mean. Here's an idea: as tax revenue drops due to more people using electric vehicles increase the taxes on fuel vehicles. It'll speed up the transition. We already do it with cigarettes. As the popularity of cigarettes has dropped the taxes on them have kept going up.

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    How nice it would be to only have to travel 20,000km a year. That would be nearly $1,000 for my work commute.

    Most people don’t live that close to their job.

    -Loki- on
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Fuel tax is levied by the federal government though, so I'm hard pressed to see how it funds roads, unless it's apportioned to the states like GST.
    In any case, Vic doesn't manage the fuel tax, so falling revenue from the Feds is hardly good reasoning for an electric car tax.

  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    Suriko wrote: »
    https://thedriven.io/2020/11/21/shameful-victoria-follows-south-australia-and-imposes-electric-car-road-tax/
    Victoria will impose the tax of 2.5c a kilometre for full electric vehicles, and 2 cents a kilometre for plug in hybrid vehicles. That translates to an annual tax of $500 for an electric car that travels 20,000kms a year, or an extra $400 a year tax for a plug in like the Mitsubishi Outlander. Victoria expects to raise around $30 million a year.

    I fucking hate this country sometimes. Completely imbicilic, and all the more frustrating to come from Labor as feckless as they are.

    Yeah, imposing an additional tax on electric cars is the OPPOSITE of what governments ought to be doing.

    Absolute blithering fucking imbeciles. So monumentally, fundamentally stupid I'm shocked they manage to remember to breathe and not asphyxiate themselves to death.

  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist กรุงเทพมหานครRegistered User regular
    Ugh. I had a rant typed up but I don't need to argue on the internet that much these days.

    The journalism around this 'EV' tax has been awful. Generally avoids including the kind of implementation information you should know to make a judgement, while full of EV manufacturers/sellers talking their book.

    I don't think per-kilometre charging is necessarily a bad way to raise funds for roads. If there are problems with fuel excise, campaign to fix it rather than using this to imply that something actually separate is also bad when they're two different things. Hypothecation of taxes is generally not a great idea.

    There are serious issues with the taxation/responsibility splits in the Federation, and it's a shame that one of the only halfway-good preoccupations of Tony Abbott didn't really go anywhere (while he nevertheless achieved some of his much shittier reactionary ideas).

    I don't know where he got the scorpions, or how he got them into my mattress.

    http://newnations.bandcamp.com
  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    A road tax is always a bad idea, because it lays the onus on the people who pay their own way, instead of those who have company cars.

    Make the working class pay while the bourgeois swan about, completely unaffected.

    Tax multi-millionaires and billionaires and invest HEAVILY in public transportation.

  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist กรุงเทพมหานครRegistered User regular
    What. Oh yes, ok, the bourgeoisie don't drive. 🙄.

    I don't know where he got the scorpions, or how he got them into my mattress.

    http://newnations.bandcamp.com
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I mean, they do drive.

    But the amount of of their pockets is less than the amount of if the pockets of the poor, relatively speaking.

    If I've only got fifty dollars spare every two weeks to but food/petrol week and I have to pay fifteen of that to a road tax, it's going to effect my well being.

    But if I've got five hundred dollars spare every two weeks, that fifteen to the road tax doesn't hurt as much. I can still feel my family and buy a coffee every day.

    Numbers have been pulled out of my brain and not really reflective of any actual policies.

  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Solvent wrote: »
    What. Oh yes, ok, the bourgeoisie don't drive. 🙄.

    They don’t usually drive more than the working class, certainly not at rates that allow things to scale up/down properly. In fact, many of them get to live in suburbs with good transportation options and that aren’t out in the boondocks.

    🙄.

    Vivixenne on
    XBOX: NOVADELPHINI | DISCORD: NOVADELPHINI #7387 | TWITTER
  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Donovan Puppyfucker was warned for this.
    Solvent wrote: »
    What. Oh yes, ok, the bourgeoisie don't drive. 🙄.

    Ha ha ha ha fuck off.

    Many of them have company cars, many of them have drivers. Many of them claim their vehicular expenses on their taxes as a deduction. If you didn't already know any of this it's not MY fault you're ignorant.

    Bogart on
  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    plufim on
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  • KelorKelor Registered User regular
    Strap in y'all and get ready for yet another "is the Labor party preparing for a leadership spill? (if we can manage it we will!)" news cycle by the media.

    I can't say I've been pleased with Albanese but I can't tell if it's he just doesn't have the fire he used to or that he was granted leadership of the party with conditions that have tied his hands on policy.

    I've definitely seen (you have no idea how much this pleased me, I literally blanked so hard I had to google up Labor party leaders to remember his name) Bill Shorten putting himself out there several months back and with Covid starting to come under control media has started agitating for this story instead of all the corruption going on in NSW at the moment.

  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Solvent wrote: »
    What. Oh yes, ok, the bourgeoisie don't drive. 🙄.

    Ha ha ha ha fuck off.

    Many of them have company cars, many of them have drivers. Many of them claim their vehicular expenses on their taxes as a deduction. If you didn't already know any of this it's not MY fault you're ignorant.

    Company cars used for personal use would be taxable under fringe benefits tax (which is income tax that gets paid for you by the company, because the car is effectively extra salary).
    Presumably costs of a driver get passed onto the person paying for the service, unless we're looking at Uber or something similarly exploitable.
    Driving costs are only deductible if they're driving directly between workplaces (which is ugh if the business people are traveling between capital cities because they need to talk), or if the travel itself is required by the work (tradespeople, property salesagents).

    That they probably live closer to work and fly when they can is a bigger issue with a road tax.

  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    plufim wrote: »

    Oh god.
    How many Australians are stranded in Europe that could have used that private jet better.

    ... Looks like none and the caps on arrivals are more to blame:
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/sep/15/why-are-more-than-25000-australians-still-stranded-overseas-six-months-into-the-pandemic
    Still not a good look

    discrider on
  • THAC0THAC0 Registered User regular
    I'll be curious to see if once trump is gone for good we'll start to see a lot more rumblings from local politics again. Morrison hasn't managed to do anything successful really other then stumble from national emergency to national emergency. Obviously COVID plays a part in that too but I already feel the gaze of the news media shifting back over our own politicians which would be great because there it feels like there has been a fair bit of stuff that's slid under the radar like the sports rorts thing.

  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    THAC0 wrote: »
    I'll be curious to see if once trump is gone for good we'll start to see a lot more rumblings from local politics again. Morrison hasn't managed to do anything successful really other then stumble from national emergency to national emergency. Obviously COVID plays a part in that too but I already feel the gaze of the news media shifting back over our own politicians which would be great because there it feels like there has been a fair bit of stuff that's slid under the radar like the sports rorts thing.

    Don't forget the Community Development Grants rort, over 25 times bigger than sport rorts but somehow made even less news.

    https://www.michaelwest.com.au/the-rigs-are-getting-bigger-michael-pascoe-on-community-development-grants-rorts/

  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist กรุงเทพมหานครRegistered User regular
    THAC0 wrote: »
    Morrison hasn't managed to do anything successful really other then stumble from national emergency to national emergency.
    Unfortunately I think Morrison is coming out of this year smelling rosy. COVID has sucked up all airspace although as far as I can tell a lot of the 'response' was state issues, as far as containment goes. The feds offered welfare support which, while quite limited, was sufficient to keep eyes off them. In terms of foreign policy, China issues are giving him a chance to bang the patriotism drum.
    Do many people remember the bushfires of late '19 to early '20? I don't know.

    I don't know where he got the scorpions, or how he got them into my mattress.

    http://newnations.bandcamp.com
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    Solvent wrote: »
    THAC0 wrote: »
    Morrison hasn't managed to do anything successful really other then stumble from national emergency to national emergency.
    Unfortunately I think Morrison is coming out of this year smelling rosy. COVID has sucked up all airspace although as far as I can tell a lot of the 'response' was state issues, as far as containment goes. The feds offered welfare support which, while quite limited, was sufficient to keep eyes off them. In terms of foreign policy, China issues are giving him a chance to bang the patriotism drum.
    Do many people remember the bushfires of late '19 to early '20? I don't know.

    The people who were affected do.
    There was a disaster fund that wasn't being used to help survivors somewhere.

    I think a big thing with the COVID response is that, for better and worse, it's been guided by the lack of a response to the bushfires.
    And while the bushfires affected the coast, COVID has affected the cities and so the former feels like it has been forgotten as all the media moved on.
    I don't think it has though.

    discrider on
  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    Holy shit, the LNP dropped this just before Xmas for a reason.

    Key recommendations:
    No more compulsory voting
    Voter ID
    Make it harder to vote early

    What a fucking shitshow. Desperate to be america.

    Also they later mention abolishing by elections to let the party choose the replacement.

    plufim on
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  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist กรุงเทพมหานครRegistered User regular
    edited December 2020
    Isn't replacing compulsory preferential voting with optional preferential voting referring to how you fill out your ballot, rather than removing the necessity of everyone voting?

    I.e. if you fail to number every single box, but you do number at least one, then your vote is still counted? You can choose to leave boxes blank. That's how I read it, anyway.

    Doesn't seem to be a 'recommendation' but changing House of Reps to four year terms would get my support.

    I'm not really up-to-date with discussions on IDs in Aus. Are there many people who struggle with getting official identification? My impression was that this is not really an issue. Do you not need some kind of proof of ID to enrol?

    Extra edit: I wonder what justification they're floating for reducing the pre-poll period. Can't think of a reason off the top of my head.

    Solvent on
    I don't know where he got the scorpions, or how he got them into my mattress.

    http://newnations.bandcamp.com
  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    Oh yeah on second thought it does look like it means that, which isn't really as bad.

    There's still a lot of things that can go bugger off tho. Voter ID ie fuck minorities.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2020
    the ID rule would mostly serve to disenfranchise indigenous people, the poor, and perhaps trans/gender nonconformist ppl. I also don’t remember needing an ID to enroll (ok now looking at the electoral commission, seems like you can just get an enrolled voter to vouch for you, so it would be usual but not necessary) but regardless, in some parts of the country it’s not so easy to keep that kind of documentation up to date. The whole thing just adds cost and bureaucratic hassle to a process that doesn’t require it, the people who will be turned away will be those with the least amount of resources and time. (Plus what happens when that requirement collides with compulsory voting rules, are they also going to be fined on top of losing the opportunity to vote?)

    And as usual, even under the most generous of interpretations it’s solving a problem that doesn’t exist - I’m not aware of any widespread voter impersonation attempts in Australia. They’ve seen voter suppression work in the us and I do not for a second believe this isn’t a calculated attempt to introduce similar dynamics into Australian elections.

    tynic on
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    the ID rule would mostly serve to disenfranchise indigenous people, the poor, and perhaps trans/gender nonconformist ppl. I also don’t remember needing an ID to enroll (ok now looking at the electoral commission, seems like you can just get an enrolled voter to vouch for you, so it would be usual but not necessary) but regardless, in some parts of the country it’s not so easy to keep that kind of documentation up to date. The whole thing just adds cost and bureaucratic hassle to a process that doesn’t require it, the people who will be turned away will be those with the least amount of resources and time. (Plus what happens when that requirement collides with compulsory voting rules, are they also going to be fined on top of losing the opportunity to vote?)

    And as usual, even under the most generous of interpretations it’s solving a problem that doesn’t exist - I’m not aware of any widespread voter impersonation attempts in Australia. They’ve seen voter suppression work in the us and I do not for a second believe this isn’t a calculated attempt to introduce similar dynamics into Australian elections.

    Voter impersonation also just straight doesn't work in a country with mandatory voting. Literally the only place it can happen and not be caught is if you actually don't vote (fully aware you'll be fined if you don't) and then someone else goes and votes as you.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    While I am skeptical about the changes, primarily because of who is suggesting them, the only one I have any real issue with, is Voter ID, and primarily because of the fines associated with non-compliance, though disenfranchisment is an issue.

    - Having a ballot be invalidated because you didn't rank all the boxes is more likely to favor the big two (as they're unlikely to ever not be "run off").
    - The Robinson Rotation should have been a thing for a while, and long as it's evenly distributed, is a good thing.
    - ID to enroll is fine. ID at the booth, not so much, basically, for the reason @electricitylikesme mentions. But as long as areas that have poor representation in that area are corrected, and as long as the restrictions on ID aren't ridiculous (like some areas of the US) it's not something I'm as concerned with.
    - Pre poll reduction timeframe can get fucked though. No reason to narrow it, no reason to require an excuse. I work (for the most part) 6pm to 6am, mostly weekends, but my roster is fluid, so I do it as early as I can.
    - Party name "trademarking" seems reasonable. If I'm a member of the Penny Arcade Posters, and someone registers to run as a member of the Penny Arcadian Posters, I can see how that confusion can be problematic for voters, and my candidacy.

    While I'm not a big fan of "Also they later mention abolishing by elections to let the party choose the replacement." this idea, I'm assuming this is for by-elections?

    Rather they reform the rules around those assholes that run for a seat, win their seat, but the party loses power so they resign (fuck you, Brumby). But if they're not going to do that, then I don't have a wholesale rejection of this idea. I'd rather we vote, but a) it rarely seems to matter, and b) most people don't seem to vote (or know) for the individual, but the party alone. Given the expense of a by-election, maybe this is a good idea? Heck, if they put the caveat in that a win by a certain margin permitted this (ie, if a party won by at least 5% in the general election, no by-election, if less than, then do so), then it wouldn't bother me at all.

  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    By-elections, yeah. So if, say, your local lnp rep has to resign in disgrace, rather than a new election, the lnp would pick the replacement.

    And fuck that.

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  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    It's never a good thing to hand more control to a party and less to citizens, regardless of cost, which honestly shouldn't even be a factor.

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    I think NZ has done (or discussed?) something similar for by elections too iirc. But I can't remember the specifics, it was mainly focused on preventing spin offs. Parties want power to remain with the party.

  • exisexis Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    I think NZ has done (or discussed?) something similar for by elections too iirc. But I can't remember the specifics, it was mainly focused on preventing spin offs. Parties want power to remain with the party.

    Might be the waka jumping bill you're thinking of? Electorate MP's being booted from the party will trigger a by-election. List MP's will be replaced by the next MP on the party list. I think this is fairly sensible, and I'm not sure what a more directly democratic alternative would look like.

  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    Ah yeah. That was it. An electorate MP was put there by their electorate. So I'm not sure why the party gets to kick them out of Parliament.

  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    For fucks sake

    Labor will of course support this because its framed as "JOBS"

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  • exisexis Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    Ah yeah. That was it. An electorate MP was put there by their electorate. So I'm not sure why the party gets to kick them out of Parliament.

    Well they have the chance to win the seat in a by-election as an independent. It probably is the most 'democratic' way to deal with it. I'm sure a decent chunk of voters pick electorate candidates based solely on their party affiliation, so giving them an opportunity to re-evaluate whether they still want them in as an independent seems reasonable.

  • TefTef Registered User regular
    Who is the guy ITT who runs the board gaming store?

    help a fellow forumer meet their mental health care needs because USA healthcare sucks!

    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better

    bit.ly/2XQM1ke
  • AntoshkaAntoshka Miauen Oil Change LazarusRegistered User regular
    Tef wrote: »
    Who is the guy ITT who runs the board gaming store?

    @Aegeri, I believe

    n57PM0C.jpg
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    I don't think he does anymore

  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist กรุงเทพมหานครRegistered User regular
    I just had the conversation with my rather conservative brother about Australian politicians importing trumpist rhetoric into Australia and then hours later our acting PM goes and says this shite. Just... Like, I'm going to actually be charitable and say that McCormack is the kind of guy that probably does not get how the words he's uttering definitely imply certain things, and he is just a useful idiot, but still... Ugh.

    I don't know where he got the scorpions, or how he got them into my mattress.

    http://newnations.bandcamp.com
  • TefTef Registered User regular
    Link?

    help a fellow forumer meet their mental health care needs because USA healthcare sucks!

    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better

    bit.ly/2XQM1ke
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    "All lives matter" in response to the insurrection in comparison to black lives matter protests, and after a motion was not passed from Pauline Hanson a while back putting the same terminology in front of the Senate.

    That is, he knew.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jan/12/australian-acting-pm-michael-mccormack-all-lives-matter-comment-labelled-beyond-disgusting

    discrider on
  • TefTef Registered User regular
    Cool and good!!

    help a fellow forumer meet their mental health care needs because USA healthcare sucks!

    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better

    bit.ly/2XQM1ke
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Today's drama is that McCormack hasn't chastised other government members for spreading COVID misinformation online, such as 'masks on kids is child abuse'.

    Well aside from this pregnant possum that appears to have slept on my carport roller door all day, in the sun.

This discussion has been closed.