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[X-men] Mutants in a Half Shell, Turtle Power!

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    RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I happened on a box of 90s X-Men the other day. I read the entirety of Fatal Attractions and the Phalanx Covenant

    they were pretty bad

    I've got the Age of Apocalypse left. I recall enjoying that one a fair amount, so here's hoping!

    If you're reading the big collected books like I am, the story doesn't start until Book 2. Prelude is, well, just the events leading up to AoA. Book 1 is almost all table-setting, with only a few stories that aren't really necessary I don't think. And a lot of stereotypical comic book writing with characters constantly narrating them using their powers. Book 2 introduces Bishop and starts the story proper. So...if you don't need introductions, start with Book 2.

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    ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    I totally forgot about the cartoons. No idea how widely they were seen by folks, though.

    IIRC 90s XMen was Fox kids highest rated show for quite a while. I'm not sure about the others, but I bet there's probably a ton of people who can hum the 90s theme and yell JEEEEAAANN who have never picked up a comic.

    Do... Re.... Mi... Ti... La...
    Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
    Forget it...
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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Renzo wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I happened on a box of 90s X-Men the other day. I read the entirety of Fatal Attractions and the Phalanx Covenant

    they were pretty bad

    I've got the Age of Apocalypse left. I recall enjoying that one a fair amount, so here's hoping!

    If you're reading the big collected books like I am, the story doesn't start until Book 2. Prelude is, well, just the events leading up to AoA. Book 1 is almost all table-setting, with only a few stories that aren't really necessary I don't think. And a lot of stereotypical comic book writing with characters constantly narrating them using their powers. Book 2 introduces Bishop and starts the story proper. So...if you don't need introductions, start with Book 2.

    I've got all the actual issues

    I had previously read the Generation NeXt, the alpha and omega, and I think the wolverine and xmen ones.

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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    Thirith wrote: »
    If it didn't happen in the films, it didn't happen for that version of the character.

    Nah, they are interesting because we know them, cant ignore the baggage.

    The vast, vast majority of people can because they have no idea who she is.

    Anything to back up that bold statement?

    Just how widely known do you think the occasional X-Men villain Mystique was among the general population of the world?

    Being prominently displayed in media aside from the comics, like cartoon and games, and being the right hand of Magneto, I consider her to be one of the most recognizable villains from the X-men.

    Which is a real accomplishment for a character who's main power is "Can look like anyone".

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    AoA I remember as being an impressive piece of planning, but not one of my favourite X-Men stories. Fatal Attractions had a really dumb story in Uncanny where Colossus joins Magneto after he shows up at his sister's funeral and makes a big speech and wrecks the joint. I think maybe the X-Factor story was better, and the last bit of it at least had a big change in Logan's situation as Magneto finally did the obvious thing.

    The Phalanx story I barely remember.

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    joshgotrojoshgotro Deviled Egg The Land of REAL CHILIRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    The run up to Messiah Complex is my favorite collections. Supernovas and Blinded by the Light specifically.

    A ton of that is Bachalo's art.

    joshgotro on
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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Bogart wrote: »
    AoA I remember as being an impressive piece of planning, but not one of my favourite X-Men stories. Fatal Attractions had a really dumb story in Uncanny where Colossus joins Magneto after he shows up at his sister's funeral and makes a big speech and wrecks the joint. I think maybe the X-Factor story was better, and the last bit of it at least had a big change in Logan's situation as Magneto finally did the obvious thing.

    The Phalanx story I barely remember.

    Fatal Attractions started out ok with the X-Factor story and then rapidly fell apart. Magnetos acolytes murdered a hospice so earth initiated a comic book solution intended to keep magneto from coming back to earth

    Magneto got all angry and lamented the fact that he just wanted to be left alone (seemingly forgetting that the day before his followers murdered several dozen doctors, nurses, and cancer patients).

    the Phalanx Covenant started off well enough too, pitting Sabertooth, White Queen, Banshee, and a half unconscious Jubilee against an unknown enemy and charging them with saving Generation X. then it got bad and worse with each following issue to the point that I stopped reading it because I just didn't care

    edit: also, yeah, the Colossus story made no sense

    "my sister died! .... better join up with a bunch of mass murderers because .... it's what she would have wanted? I guess?"

    Xaquin on
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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    Thirith wrote: »
    If it didn't happen in the films, it didn't happen for that version of the character.

    Nah, they are interesting because we know them, cant ignore the baggage.

    The vast, vast majority of people can because they have no idea who she is.

    Anything to back up that bold statement?

    Just how widely known do you think the occasional X-Men villain Mystique was among the general population of the world?

    Being prominently displayed in media aside from the comics, like cartoon and games, and being the right hand of Magneto, I consider her to be one of the most recognizable villains from the X-men.

    Which is a real accomplishment for a character who's main power is "Can look like anyone".

    The blue skin is kind of key. When I first read the comics it was a bunch of regular human looking types freaking Nightcrawler with the tail and the ears and the blue. Mystique, I think, is similar. In a setting full of generic cheesecake and beefcake that blue skin makes her stand out.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Phalanx was good in terms of setting up GenX and helping push the Sabertooth redemption story they abandoned after AoA.

    Fatal Attractions was one of those where the only one that really mattered was the X-Men issue, not even Cable coming back and getting rekt was that interesting. Hell the covers with those sweet holo cards is what people remember. I always wondered why they never tried the Magneto rips the metal out in the movies, it's so iconic and Wolverine going feral in response would be a nice hook for his stand alone movie.

    joshgotro wrote: »
    The run up to Messiah Complex is my favorite collections. Supernovas and Blinded by the Light specifically.

    A ton of that is Bachalo's art.

    Mike Carey is the most underrated X-Men writer of the past decade (and 2nd longest writer behind Claremont), and I miss him being a solid bright spot in the increasingly shitty X-Men writer's stable. Marvel comics as a whole has stunk for years but the X-Men line is like patient zero for the shit.

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    NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    The Phalanx Covenant was essentially a big, sloppy way to set the table for the upcoming Generation X book while bringing back both Warlock and Cypher as the character Douglock (ugh). Bot crossovers (Phalanx Covenant and Fatal Attractions) were two of the worst. I remember disliking them immensely when they came out.

    That said, I really liked Generation X. It felt like the other X-books were straying from the purported mission of Xavier, so a title focusing on a school was a breath of fresh air. Emma as headmistress was an inspired choice, and I thought the new characters were interesting.

    I really liked AoA back in the day, too.

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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    I remember really liking Executioner's Song, though I'm almost scared to go back to it since they were the first comics I ever bought and read

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I remember really liking Executioner's Song, though I'm almost scared to go back to it since they were the first comics I ever bought and read

    You can really tell Peter David wasn't happy about having his book knocked off track for three months. And Stryfe is never less than operatic in his monologues. Still, it's not bad, I think. X-Tinction Agenda as well.

    My favourites are the earlier ones, though. Mutant Massacre, Fall of the Mutants and Inferno.

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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Mutant Massacre was really great

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Mutant Massacre was really great

    It was such a great introduction for a new team of bad guys. Boom they hit town and hospitalise three X-Men and brutally murder the entire population of Morlocks. Like, holy shit, guys. These new villains are terrifying.

    Later, they undid that good work by bringing back the Morlocks maybe five times, but the Marauders remain one of my favourite groups of bad guys. Same problem as Juggernaut, really. They only remain terrifying until they've lost several times in a row, and every villain does that eventually.

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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    X-Tinction Agenda, man if only Jim Lee could draw that whole thing (or at least along with Portacio). That Uncanny #272 might be his best work in one issue that's he done, and Gambit picking the lock with spike in his leg, all class.

    I still have the first edition trade of that and while Liefield actually tries then, and John Bogdanove got infinitely better when he went over to DC and did Man of Steel with Simonson, they bring down the art quite a bit.

    Oh the nostalgia wave, you are like Calgon take me away.

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    BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Reznik wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    I totally forgot about the cartoons. No idea how widely they were seen by folks, though.

    IIRC 90s XMen was Fox kids highest rated show for quite a while. I'm not sure about the others, but I bet there's probably a ton of people who can hum the 90s theme and yell JEEEEAAANN who have never picked up a comic.
    Will the MCU sneak in a THIS ONE'S FOR YOU, MORPH!

    I'd love it.

    XBL: Bizazedo
    PSN: Bizazedo
    CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
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    NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    X-Tinction Agenda will always have a special place in my heart.

    When I was ~11 or 12, my family started going to Yellowstone for vacation. Now, flying from New England to Montana is a long trip. At the time, I was just reading Transformers comics, but I was caught up on the latest issue because I had a monthly subscription (remember those days, when comics were actually books that arrived by mail?). So, my mom, knowing I needed something to keep me busy during 6 or so hours of flight, got me a ton of other comics.

    I gravitated to the X-Men comics because they were wild compared to what I had been reading. It was during the time when the X-Men were splintered, right when Gambit was introduced and Storm was a child for whatever reason. So, in one issue, Colossus and Jean Gray (borrowed from X-Factor) were hiding out in the sewers, and Colossus thought he was an artist, and had tentacle arms. In another, Storm was escaping from Nanny and Orphan-Maker with the help of Gambit. And I was just like "I have no idea what's going on, but it's crazy, and I like it."

    X-Tinction Agenda was my first crossover event. I just sort of got an understanding of who the various X-teams were, and how things worked, and then it was crazy again. They get invaded, apparently knew one of the invaders (Havok), and then the bad guy was a human head attached to a monstrous robotic body, and he was taking mutants and kinda sorta Borgifying them (the Mutate process). It was, again, crazy, and full of melodrama, like when Cyclops and Havok beat the shit out of each other physically, because they were immune to each other's powers, or when Logan was dying in a cell, and the whole love triangle thing popped up (I groan at it now, but at the time it was new and fresh to me). Archangel being a bonafide bad ass. Psylocke's introduction (to me).

    I was hooked, and was an avid X-book reader for about a decade because of it. I used to bring comics to school, hide them in my locker... X-stuff, plus Image's Prophet in high school (I actually liked Steve Platt's run).

    So, yeah... that feeling of dread when Cameron Hodge is (re)introduced as this mockery of humanity, systematically destroying (and perverting, via Mutates) what everyone else held dear... it blew my mind. I still get chills thinking about it, simply because of how unexpected it was to me. My idea of superhero comics was based on things like the Superfriends cartoon. I had no idea they could be so much more.

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    SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    Reznik wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    I totally forgot about the cartoons. No idea how widely they were seen by folks, though.

    IIRC 90s XMen was Fox kids highest rated show for quite a while. I'm not sure about the others, but I bet there's probably a ton of people who can hum the 90s theme and yell JEEEEAAANN who have never picked up a comic.
    Will the MCU sneak in a THIS ONE'S FOR YOU, MORPH!

    I'd love it.

    Let me tell you about the time I was covered in scorpions, says Logan to a disinterested audience.

    7qmGNt5.png
    D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Mike Carey is the most underrated X-Men writer of the past decade (and 2nd longest writer behind Claremont), and I miss him being a solid bright spot in the increasingly shitty X-Men writer's stable. Marvel comics as a whole has stunk for years but the X-Men line is like patient zero for the shit.

    The big Marvel lines are notorious for being micromanaged by editors, this goes double for X-men. It got so bad in the 90's the real writers were essentially the editors because they kept changing things so often. Seagal and Kelly's runs were super planned out and this all fell apart numerous times, or plots derailed by mandate it was a miracle it was coherent at all.

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    never dienever die Registered User regular
    I recently read Age of Apocalypse, and the original story (not the 2000s sequel series) was quite good to me. It was the first time that we had a deep dive, what if version of the characters. And it really works, cause a lot of them have the same base personality, just pushed in different ways. The set-up of Age of Apocalypse Alpha was pretty engaging, and the four different teams of X-Men dealing with different parts of the world and different goals, interspliced with stuff like Cyclops and Havok as enforcers of Sinister, and Logan and Jean with the human resistance, did a great job of setting the world. Then it comes together in a wonderful crescendo of insanity and pathos that worked, despite everything in my brain coming into saying the story would not work. I think why it works for me is despite it being wrapped in the most mid 90s Mortal Kombat/Mad Max apocalypse insanity, it rides very well on the characters and me finding their stories engaging.


    It does though, have the image that made me giggle for like five minutes when I first opened the comic:

    3m6smg625m6i.png

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    NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    joshgotro wrote: »
    The run up to Messiah Complex is my favorite collections. Supernovas and Blinded by the Light specifically.

    A ton of that is Bachalo's art.

    Missed this the first time through the thread.

    I got most of those comics because of people talking about them here. Bachalo's art was awesome, making me miss Generation X, and I agree with TexiKen that Mike Carey is criminally underrated.

    That whole trilogy felt like classic 80's/90's X-Men to me, but done in a way that was far less cheesy. Plus, it had the added benefits of killing Xavier (I've always felt that he was best utilized as a martyr... it's weird to see everyone tripping over themselves to honor Xavier's dream when he's sitting right there) and giving Cyclops his most memorable personality.

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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    I'll be in the minority here but I really enjoyed the Onslaught saga. It was one of the only times that the X-Men were at the center of a Marvel-wide event and it was cool to see them leading the charge in front of the Avengers, etc.

    I also really enjoyed the initial X-Man series.

    In terms of older collections I probably have the most nostalgia for Fatal Attractions as I was at just the right age for it to be completely mind blowing. Those foil covers.

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    lunchbox12682lunchbox12682 MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    I will hold that I love Onslaught and X-Man start to finish, but that was when I was really getting into Marvel so nostalgia.
    That said, I am so confused on people's opinion of Bachalo. I cannot stand his work. He just makes so many of the characters look so bad.
    He has definitely done stuff I like (Death), but most of his Marvel stuff turns me off.

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    Dizzy DDizzy D NetherlandsRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    AoA I remember as being an impressive piece of planning, but not one of my favourite X-Men stories. Fatal Attractions had a really dumb story in Uncanny where Colossus joins Magneto after he shows up at his sister's funeral and makes a big speech and wrecks the joint. I think maybe the X-Factor story was better, and the last bit of it at least had a big change in Logan's situation as Magneto finally did the obvious thing.

    The Phalanx story I barely remember.

    Fatal Attractions started out ok with the X-Factor story and then rapidly fell apart. Magnetos acolytes murdered a hospice so earth initiated a comic book solution intended to keep magneto from coming back to earth

    Magneto got all angry and lamented the fact that he just wanted to be left alone (seemingly forgetting that the day before his followers murdered several dozen doctors, nurses, and cancer patients).

    the Phalanx Covenant started off well enough too, pitting Sabertooth, White Queen, Banshee, and a half unconscious Jubilee against an unknown enemy and charging them with saving Generation X. then it got bad and worse with each following issue to the point that I stopped reading it because I just didn't care

    edit: also, yeah, the Colossus story made no sense

    "my sister died! .... better join up with a bunch of mass murderers because .... it's what she would have wanted? I guess?"

    The whole Colossus thing was bad and also told over like a dozen different series:
    - He receives a serious brain injury in a X-men annual (always the place for throwaway stories)
    - Then his sister dies in X-Men
    - He goes berserk and joins up with Magneto in X-Men
    - Then he is lured into a trap by Kitty so they can fix his brain injury in Excalibur
    - Shows up in X-Men again and is now acts as a voice of reason within the Acolytes.

    If you never read the annual or Excalibur, you are left wondering why the hell he acts all over the place. Not that the "brain injury=evil" is good writing in any way shape or form, oh and Excalibur was horrid between Alan Davis and Warren Ellis, so I blame nobody for ignoring the title at that time.


    edit: no dutch words in English texts, bad Dizzy!

    Dizzy D on
    Steam/Origin: davydizzy
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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    I will hold that I love Onslaught and X-Man start to finish, but that was when I was really getting into Marvel so nostalgia.
    That said, I am so confused on people's opinion of Bachalo. I cannot stand his work. He just makes so many of the characters look so bad.
    He has definitely done stuff I like (Death), but most of his Marvel stuff turns me off.

    I forgot he did Death

    those were pretty great

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    Dizzy DDizzy D NetherlandsRegistered User regular
    If you like Bachalo on Death, you probably like Mark Buckingham and not Bachalo.

    Steam/Origin: davydizzy
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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Dizzy D wrote: »
    If you like Bachalo on Death, you probably like Mark Buckingham and not Bachalo.

    High Cost of Living and Time of Your Life were both illustrated by Bachalo

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    Dizzy DDizzy D NetherlandsRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Dizzy D wrote: »
    If you like Bachalo on Death, you probably like Mark Buckingham and not Bachalo.

    High Cost of Living and Time of Your Life were both illustrated by Bachalo

    And inked by Buckingham (and the second half of Time of Your Life is completely pencilled by Buckingham).

    Dizzy D on
    Steam/Origin: davydizzy
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    NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    I also really enjoyed the initial X-Man series.

    Me too. Nate Gray was interesting as a “What if?” Cable. I also liked that he had an actual lifespan.
    In terms of older collections I probably have the most nostalgia for Fatal Attractions as I was at just the right age for it to be completely mind blowing. Those foil covers.

    I don’t care what anyone says, those holograms on every cover were awesome.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    d
    I will hold that I love Onslaught and X-Man start to finish, but that was when I was really getting into Marvel so nostalgia.
    That said, I am so confused on people's opinion of Bachalo. I cannot stand his work. He just makes so many of the characters look so bad.
    He has definitely done stuff I like (Death), but most of his Marvel stuff turns me off.

    His costume designs are unacceptable.

    Fencingsax on
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    NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    His Generation X costumes were fine.

    300px-GenerationX.jpg

    In fact, I like them over the standard blue and gold standard issue that Xavier students typically wear/wore. I also miss Synch.

    He also helped modernize Rogue's look (although Olivier Coipel took the look even further).

    Can't say I like the post-Messiah Complex costumes, though.

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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    I can't believe Synch is basically one of the few X-Men who actually stayed dead (yes yes he came back as a techno zombie for that event before Schism but it seems he went back to dead). He was almost a modern version of Cyclops and had a neat power that played into his character.

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    NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    I can't believe Synch is basically one of the few X-Men who actually stayed dead (yes yes he came back as a techno zombie for that event before Schism but it seems he went back to dead). He was almost a modern version of Cyclops and had a neat power that played into his character.

    He was my favorite Gen-X character. The ultimate team guy because his power literally depended on the others. More or less had his shit together on a personal level. The calm eye of the storm that was everyone else's drama.

    I'd like to see some other writers take a crack at using him. I can imagine some stories about him not wanting to be around certain other mutants because of the scope of their powers, or perhaps unwillingly being used as a nuclear option for a nefarious person/group/whatever, or being used as a mutant PI/bounty hunter given he also has the ability to track mutants, or simply being the leader of another team, being able to be the ultimate utility member... lots of directions a good writer could go.

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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    I also really enjoyed the initial X-Man series.

    Me too. Nate Gray was interesting as a “What if?” Cable. I also liked that he had an actual lifespan.
    In terms of older collections I probably have the most nostalgia for Fatal Attractions as I was at just the right age for it to be completely mind blowing. Those foil covers.

    I don’t care what anyone says, those holograms on every cover were awesome.

    I've got a numbered copy of three of 'em that are signed by the artists.

    Not nearly mint condition or anything, because I was a kid and if I had comics I was going to fucking READ them, but they're probably the only collectable comics I own.

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    I'll be in the minority here but I really enjoyed the Onslaught saga. It was one of the only times that the X-Men were at the center of a Marvel-wide event and it was cool to see them leading the charge in front of the Avengers, etc.

    I also really enjoyed the initial X-Man series.

    In terms of older collections I probably have the most nostalgia for Fatal Attractions as I was at just the right age for it to be completely mind blowing. Those foil covers.

    This was what made me a big X-men fan, and served as an introduction to the entire Marvel universe on the comic side.

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