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[US Foreign Policy] Muddling About

monikermoniker Registered User regular
edited December 7 in Debate and/or Discourse
A new thread to discuss what amounts to our supposed policies to foreign nations.

Previously on The Earth:
President Trump tries standup comedy at the UN
UN Ambassador Nikki Haley resigns to spend more time not being in the Trump Administration
SecDef Jim "Mad Dog" Mattis gets new nickname from Trump "Democratic Moderate"

Also: NAFTA part deux! Because getting everything we already had in the TPP, other than expanded trade to the Pacific, is somehow better.


What will happen next? Events, dear boy, events.


*************
Official prevention of cross contamination post.
*************

The Russian investigation, and related issues: Mueller Russian Investigation Thread
The Cohen investigation and related bribery: Cohen Investigation Thread
General Middle East goings on: The Middle East Thread
Canada specific things and what even is cheese? : Canada Thread
Trump immigration policy, Muslim ban and beyond: Immigration Policy Thread
Firings and Hirings of Senior Government positions: Trump Cabinet Thread

*************

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Posts

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    CNN reporting that Saudis will say Khashoggi was killed at Istanbul consulate in unauthorized interrogation gone wrong.

    That would be an old fashioned "if only the emperor knew about this thing being done in furtherance of his policies!"

    Will this disavowed wet work team be publicly punished?

    The National reporter:

    I am sure they will find a few fall guys.

    Interrogation gone wrong...

    I've heard of cutting remarks, but not questions that can sever a femur.

    Wordplay.

    Captain Inertia
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Summary of events:
    "Holy shit, we got caught red handed murdering and dismembering someone critical of me, the current Saudi leader"
    "Shit, shit, uh, it was totally someone going above and beyond what I asked for. Yeah, that lame excuse should work."
    "OMG, I can't believe Trump is stupid enough to believe us. Wow!"

    chrono_travellerIncenjucarTicaldfjamHefflingMan in the Mists
  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Summary of events:
    "Holy shit, we got caught red handed murdering and dismembering someone critical of me, the current Saudi leader"
    "Shit, shit, uh, it was totally someone going above and beyond what I asked for. Yeah, that lame excuse should work."
    "OMG, I can't believe Trump is stupid enough to believe us. Wow!"

    Though it doesn't seem like its really that is "Trump believes us." than he doesn't care because the cost would be that it would financial (no arms deal). WaPo article. Can't kill the goose that lays the golden egg!

    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett

    George R. R. Martin is not your bitch. ~ Neil Gaiman
    FencingsaxEmerlmaster999LovelytynicMrMisterMan in the MistsKristmas Kthulhu
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Summary of events:
    "Holy shit, we got caught red handed murdering and dismembering someone critical of me, the current Saudi leader"
    "Shit, shit, uh, it was totally someone going above and beyond what I asked for. Yeah, that lame excuse should work."
    "OMG, I can't believe Trump is stupid enough to believe us. Wow!"

    Though it doesn't seem like its really that is "Trump believes us." than he doesn't care because the cost would be that it would financial (no arms deal). WaPo article. Can't kill the goose that lays the golden egg!

    100% Trump believes them. He's done this same play before. MbS told him personally after all.

    Commander ZoomGnome-InterruptuselectricitylikesmeElldren
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    You know what I hate the most about Saudi Arabia? Apart from the religious extremism, war in Yemen, oppression of women/ethnic/religious minorities, totalitarian dictatorship(called a monarchy to make it sound better) and all around being stuck in the dark ages?

    Its the fact that the country is called Saudi Arabia. Saud is the name of the rulling house, they named the country after themselves. Like its their personal property. Like if Trump changed the name of the USA into United states of Trump or something. I know its petty, but it really pisses me off. Totally grinds my gears and yes that is a family guy reference.

    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
    TicaldfjamCelestialBadger
  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    You know what I hate the most about Saudi Arabia? Apart from the religious extremism, war in Yemen, oppression of women/ethnic/religious minorities, totalitarian dictatorship(called a monarchy to make it sound better) and all around being stuck in the dark ages?

    Its the fact that the country is called Saudi Arabia. Saud is the name of the rulling house, they named the country after themselves. Like its their personal property. Like if Trump changed the name of the USA into United states of Trump or something. I know its petty, but it really pisses me off. Totally grinds my gears and yes that is a family guy reference.

    To be honest, that has been the typical function of monarchy unless otherwise bound by
    - A Constitution of some sort
    - Enough aristocrats with their own martial power that the monarch must keep them and their interests happy, lest they brook attempts at dethroning.

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Naw, I could give a fuck about what they call it. I mean, both North and South America are named after a singular dude.

    My personal number one hatred of Saudi Arabia is how they steal migrant worker passports and then effectively enslave and work them to death. But sure, ego is bad too I guess.

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    You know what I hate the most about Saudi Arabia? Apart from the religious extremism, war in Yemen, oppression of women/ethnic/religious minorities, totalitarian dictatorship(called a monarchy to make it sound better) and all around being stuck in the dark ages?

    Its the fact that the country is called Saudi Arabia. Saud is the name of the rulling house, they named the country after themselves. Like its their personal property. Like if Trump changed the name of the USA into United states of Trump or something. I know its petty, but it really pisses me off. Totally grinds my gears and yes that is a family guy reference.

    Not that odd by any kind of historical standards. Less so in Europe where country names tended to come from place names or tribal names but out of Europe it used to be pretty common. See ottoman empire, china (which is an anachronistic reference to the Qing dynasty that never fell out of fashion in the west), the Selucids, Abbassids, Fatimids, and so on. Even in the west it wouldn’t have been unusual to refer to, say, Bourbon France or Hapsburg Spain.

    That saudi arabia still uses the term is more a function of them being one of the last monarchys than any particular egoism.

    PLADongs Galore
  • CogCog I'm festive as fuck. Registered User regular
    edited October 16
    I have a feeling that if the Saudis really are fessing up to this, it’s because HOLY SHIT they look REALLY fucking guilty.


    Elshayyal is a writer for Al Jezera.


    Bozkurt is an independent reporter.



    Daragahi is aim international correspondent for The Independent.

    Cog on
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    They are sending a message.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    They are sending a message.

    Nah, they are just comically bad at this.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    You know what I hate the most about Saudi Arabia? Apart from the religious extremism, war in Yemen, oppression of women/ethnic/religious minorities, totalitarian dictatorship(called a monarchy to make it sound better) and all around being stuck in the dark ages?

    Its the fact that the country is called Saudi Arabia. Saud is the name of the rulling house, they named the country after themselves. Like its their personal property. Like if Trump changed the name of the USA into United states of Trump or something. I know its petty, but it really pisses me off. Totally grinds my gears and yes that is a family guy reference.

    America is the feminized name of Amerigo Vespucci because landmasses are ladies. Virginia is named after Elizabeth I, Maryland is Mary's Land. Pennsylvania belonged to William Penn thanks to a royal grant. &c.

    Harry DresdenTicaldfjamPLAMild Confusion
  • RingoRingo Stardust, Golden Caught in a Devil's BargainRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    They are sending a message.

    Nah, they are just comically bad at this.

    I think the message is "There are no consequences for being comically bad at this"

    Whether that's true or not...

    ceres wrote: »
    I'm just going to go ahead and lock this thread before I feel any worse about humanity.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG now featured at the Exigency Forum
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  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    You know what I hate the most about Saudi Arabia? Apart from the religious extremism, war in Yemen, oppression of women/ethnic/religious minorities, totalitarian dictatorship(called a monarchy to make it sound better) and all around being stuck in the dark ages?

    Its the fact that the country is called Saudi Arabia. Saud is the name of the rulling house, they named the country after themselves. Like its their personal property. Like if Trump changed the name of the USA into United states of Trump or something. I know its petty, but it really pisses me off. Totally grinds my gears and yes that is a family guy reference.

    America is the feminized name of Amerigo Vespucci because landmasses are ladies. Virginia is named after Elizabeth I, Maryland is Mary's Land. Pennsylvania belonged to William Penn thanks to a royal grant. &c.

    I get that! I can even tell you that Amerigo is a italian form of Emerich(because of a search I did a few weeks ago when I was curious as to the origin of the name and went on a google binge). It should also be noted that Amerigo never decided to name the Americas after himself.

    But you have to remember that Saudi Arabia is less then a 100 years old. It was created in the aftermath of the Arab Revolt during WWI and it has long and quite glorious history beforehand. Including being the birthplace of Mohamed and the religion of Islam. What it didn't have was a history of being ruled by the Saudis. Certainly nobody voted for these guys.

    And once again people... I KNOW ITS PETTY. I know its a small thing once you compare it to other things. I know there are fucking bigger issues in the world then the name Saudi Arabia, even inside Saudi Arabia, but its my pet peeve okay. Jeez, some people.

    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    Geez, I gave them far too much credit by assuming their 15 person kill team would have a cleaner on the roster to sanitize the site when the atrocity first occurred.

    Future Employee of Planetary Acquisitions, Inc.
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  • KetBraKetBra FISTS OF JUSTICE! Registered User regular
    If there's anything we've learning in the last couple of years, it's that the bad guys are not necessarily terribly competent.

    ohKiGmg.png
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited October 16
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Geez, I gave them far too much credit by assuming their 15 person kill team would have a cleaner on the roster to sanitize the site when the atrocity first occurred.

    They don't give a fuck

    Fencingsax on
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    LovelyJaysonFourAistan
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Geez, I gave them far too much credit by assuming their 15 person kill team would have a cleaner on the roster to sanitize the site when the atrocity first occurred.

    They don't give a fuck

    I mean, the people who work at the consulate care. That was their break room.

    shrykeKayne Red RobeFencingsaxTicaldfjamCogJaysonFourMan in the Mists
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    They are sending a message.

    Nah, they are just comically bad at this.

    I think the message is "There are no consequences for being comically bad at this"

    Whether that's true or not...

    I think that's a lesson you can take from this whole thing but it is not a message the Saudis are deliberately trying to send.

    Kristmas Kthulhu
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    They are sending a message.

    Nah, they are just comically bad at this.

    Comically sending a villainous message?

  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Ringo wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    They are sending a message.

    Nah, they are just comically bad at this.

    I think the message is "There are no consequences for being comically bad at this"

    Whether that's true or not...

    I think that's a lesson you can take from this whole thing but it is not a message the Saudis are deliberately trying to send.

    As long as they have Trump as a bestie, and all that oil money to throw around, they're pretty sure they can get away with this. This is just the start of it- I mean, he was critical of the Prince, and as far as being an American citizen, he was also a man of color and a journalist that insulted one of Trump's bestest best billionaire club friends, so thinking Trump will do anything except let it happen is wishful thinking.

    steam_sig.png
    Commander ZoomHarry Dresden
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    They are sending a message.

    Nah, they are just comically bad at this.

    Comically sending a villainous message?

    'Just how far can we go to get away with it?'

    FencingsaxEmerlmaster999Man in the Mists
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    edited October 16
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ringo wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    They are sending a message.

    Nah, they are just comically bad at this.

    I think the message is "There are no consequences for being comically bad at this"

    Whether that's true or not...

    I think that's a lesson you can take from this whole thing but it is not a message the Saudis are deliberately trying to send.

    As long as they have Trump as a bestie, and all that oil money to throw around, they're pretty sure they can get away with this. This is just the start of it- I mean, he was critical of the Prince, and as far as being an American citizen, he was also a man of color and a journalist that insulted one of Trump's bestest best billionaire club friends, so thinking Trump will do anything except let it happen is wishful thinking.
    Resident, not citizen. It was why he entered the consulate in the first place, he needed papers to get married, otherwise he probably would have never have gone there.

    Kipling217 on
    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
  • TaramoorTaramoor Registered User regular


    I wasn’t sure if it belonged here or in the immigration thread but since this tweet is considered official policy what the hell.

    shrykeBullheadTicaldfjamBrainleechLovelyMan in the Mists
  • 101101 Registered User regular
    That tweet is just a whole load of gross, but i'm gonna focus on one point in particular.

    It sounds, from that tweet, like the caravan has already left Honduras' borders. Is that correct?

    If so, what the hell does Trump expect Honduras to do about it???

    monikerDarkPrimusElldrenkimeIncenjucarLovelyMan in the MistsStabbity StyleJoolander
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    101 wrote: »
    That tweet is just a whole load of gross, but i'm gonna focus on one point in particular.

    It sounds, from that tweet, like the caravan has already left Honduras' borders. Is that correct?

    If so, what the hell does Trump expect Honduras to do about it???

    Nothing, its officially telling Honduras were cutting off aid. In a stupid tweet because merica.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    The irony of this being that without aid the situation in honduras will only deteriorate which will spur on more emigration.

    The best ideas!

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
    PreachershrykeBullheadDrovekSleepGnome-InterruptusMild ConfusionJaysonFourCoghonovereDarkPrimusemp123mcdermottElldrenAstaerethCommander ZoomRingokimeIncenjucarBlackDragon480LovelyMan in the MistsNyysjanStabbity StyleKristmas KthulhuMoridin889
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    The irony of this being that without aid the situation in honduras will only deteriorate which will spur on more emigration.

    The best ideas!

    Its the mistaken GOP lead belief that americas debt issues are because of foreign aid. Its one of those grand lies everyone just assumes is true.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
    SleepTicaldfjamMan in the Mists
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    The irony of this being that without aid the situation in honduras will only deteriorate which will spur on more emigration.

    The best ideas!

    Its the mistaken GOP lead belief that americas debt issues are because of foreign aid. Its one of those grand lies everyone just assumes is true.

    Water is wet, sky is blue, women have secrets, and US debt is because of foreign aid.

    Preachermcdermott
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    The irony of this being that without aid the situation in honduras will only deteriorate which will spur on more emigration.

    The best ideas!

    Its the mistaken GOP lead belief that americas debt issues are because of foreign aid. Its one of those grand lies everyone just assumes is true.

    Water is wet, sky is blue, women have secrets, and US debt is because of foreign aid.

    MOST US NATIONAL DEBT IS HELD BY AMERICANS!!!!!!!!


    ... sorry. Just... shouting into the void here. :mad:

    monikertynicTicaldfjam
  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    You know what I hate the most about Saudi Arabia? Apart from the religious extremism, war in Yemen, oppression of women/ethnic/religious minorities, totalitarian dictatorship(called a monarchy to make it sound better) and all around being stuck in the dark ages?

    Its the fact that the country is called Saudi Arabia. Saud is the name of the rulling house, they named the country after themselves. Like its their personal property. Like if Trump changed the name of the USA into United states of Trump or something. I know its petty, but it really pisses me off. Totally grinds my gears and yes that is a family guy reference.

    America is the feminized name of Amerigo Vespucci because landmasses are ladies. Virginia is named after Elizabeth I, Maryland is Mary's Land. Pennsylvania belonged to William Penn thanks to a royal grant. &c.

    I get that! I can even tell you that Amerigo is a italian form of Emerich(because of a search I did a few weeks ago when I was curious as to the origin of the name and went on a google binge). It should also be noted that Amerigo never decided to name the Americas after himself.

    But you have to remember that Saudi Arabia is less then a 100 years old. It was created in the aftermath of the Arab Revolt during WWI and it has long and quite glorious history beforehand. Including being the birthplace of Mohamed and the religion of Islam. What it didn't have was a history of being ruled by the Saudis. Certainly nobody voted for these guys.

    And once again people... I KNOW ITS PETTY. I know its a small thing once you compare it to other things. I know there are fucking bigger issues in the world then the name Saudi Arabia, even inside Saudi Arabia, but its my pet peeve okay. Jeez, some people.

    That is indeed how Monarchies work.

    If a movement doesn't have someone that can sit down opposite those in a position of power and strike a deal, how can that movement achieve success?
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Heffling wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    You know what I hate the most about Saudi Arabia? Apart from the religious extremism, war in Yemen, oppression of women/ethnic/religious minorities, totalitarian dictatorship(called a monarchy to make it sound better) and all around being stuck in the dark ages?

    Its the fact that the country is called Saudi Arabia. Saud is the name of the rulling house, they named the country after themselves. Like its their personal property. Like if Trump changed the name of the USA into United states of Trump or something. I know its petty, but it really pisses me off. Totally grinds my gears and yes that is a family guy reference.

    America is the feminized name of Amerigo Vespucci because landmasses are ladies. Virginia is named after Elizabeth I, Maryland is Mary's Land. Pennsylvania belonged to William Penn thanks to a royal grant. &c.

    I get that! I can even tell you that Amerigo is a italian form of Emerich(because of a search I did a few weeks ago when I was curious as to the origin of the name and went on a google binge). It should also be noted that Amerigo never decided to name the Americas after himself.

    But you have to remember that Saudi Arabia is less then a 100 years old. It was created in the aftermath of the Arab Revolt during WWI and it has long and quite glorious history beforehand. Including being the birthplace of Mohamed and the religion of Islam. What it didn't have was a history of being ruled by the Saudis. Certainly nobody voted for these guys.

    And once again people... I KNOW ITS PETTY. I know its a small thing once you compare it to other things. I know there are fucking bigger issues in the world then the name Saudi Arabia, even inside Saudi Arabia, but its my pet peeve okay. Jeez, some people.

    That is indeed how Monarchies work.

    steam_sig.png

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  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    Actually most Monarchies used to have an elected component, even the Emperors of Rome where technically voted into office by the senate.

    It was usually confined to the biggest warlords with the biggest armies voted on by their followers, but democratically elected kings(for a given value of democratic) was how most monarchies started. Its why the usual heirs during the dark ages where the kings brothers and not his son.

    It was only after much consolidation of power that the idea of automatic succession by the eldest son became the standard. Consolidation usually by killing anybody that voted for somebody else.

    The history of medieval Germany/Central Europe is pretty much the history of the Hapsburgs trying to make primogeniture a thing.

    There was more democracy in the past then Hollywood history gives credit for, believe it or not, America was not the first democracy. Nor its first republic.

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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Actually most Monarchies used to have an elected component, even the Emperors of Rome where technically voted into office by the senate.

    It was usually confined to the biggest warlords with the biggest armies voted on by their followers, but democratically elected kings(for a given value of democratic) was how most monarchies started. Its why the usual heirs during the dark ages where the kings brothers and not his son.

    It was only after much consolidation of power that the idea of automatic succession by the eldest son became the standard. Consolidation usually by killing anybody that voted for somebody else.

    The history of medieval Germany/Central Europe is pretty much the history of the Hapsburgs trying to make primogeniture a thing.

    There was more democracy in the past then Hollywood history gives credit for, believe it or not, America was not the first democracy. Nor its first republic.

    Rome had an elected component because it originally was a republic. The emperors came later and the elections were a vestige of the more republican origins. Most historical monarchies had no elections of any sort. It was powerful aristocratic families jockeying for power and once they got it their power was very dictatorial.

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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Saudi Arabia borders on a type of inherited Olgrachy.

    there's so many people who are Saudu family members or associates thereof they're a social class of their own.

  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited October 16
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    But you have to remember that Saudi Arabia is less then a 100 years old. It was created in the aftermath of the Arab Revolt during WWI and it has long and quite glorious history beforehand. Including being the birthplace of Mohamed and the religion of Islam. What it didn't have was a history of being ruled by the Saudis. Certainly nobody voted for these guys.
    Only sort of true. The current Saudi state did indeed form in the aftermath of WWI. But this is the third Saudi state, not the first, and the first two didn't call themselves "Saudi Arabia." The first, which took place after dynasty-founder "Ibn Saud" entered into his evil pact with the founder of Wahhabism, existed from 1744 until 1818, and the second from 1824 until 1891. If you read the history of the first Saudi state it will remind you of ISIS. Just going around slaughtering Shia and being fanatical and violent religious authoritarians until the Ottomans/Egyptians put them down.

    Kaputa on
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Per Associated Press



    *nervously*

    Haha what the fuck

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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Per Associated Press



    *nervously*

    Haha what the fuck

    Yep. Same thing as the Russians. They'll kiss Trump's ass until he's convinced and then hide the fact they did it in plain sight, and use that as a way to silence any other critics who might speak out.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Per Associated Press



    *nervously*

    Haha what the fuck

    Didn't they admit they killed him just "accidentally" like good christ.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Reminds me of one of Colbert's White House Correspondent's Dinner jokes.
    The greatest thing about this man is he's steady. You know where he stands. He believes the same thing Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday. Events can change; this man's beliefs never will.

    Trump of course vacillating between locking his mind onto something and ignoring all other information, and yet juxtaposed against his 'listening to whomever he last spoke to' levels of being easily manipulated, his stances and statements are pure Gaslightonium.

    Bonus element, this was the next thing he said;
    And as excited as I am to be here with the President, I am appalled to be surrounded by the liberal media that is destroying America, with the exception of FOX News. FOX News gives you both sides of every story: the President's side, and the Vice President's side.

    Boy, how times have changed, where now FOX is giving the President his side.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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