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[US Foreign Policy] Muddling About

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Posts

  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Per Associated Press



    *nervously*

    Haha what the fuck

    Didn't they admit they killed him just "accidentally" like good christ.

    Yeah, there’s a body.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Per Associated Press



    *nervously*

    Haha what the fuck

    Didn't they admit they killed him just "accidentally" like good christ.

    Yeah, there’s a body.

    Mostly.

    TicaldfjamMan in the Mists
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited October 16
    Marathon wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Per Associated Press



    *nervously*

    Haha what the fuck

    Didn't they admit they killed him just "accidentally" like good christ.

    Yeah, there’s a body*.

    *some assembly required

    Its amazing though to have a president who's sole overriding priority is to avoid ever creating an environment in which anyone is held accountable lest he find himself held so.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    kaid wrote: »
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Actually most Monarchies used to have an elected component, even the Emperors of Rome where technically voted into office by the senate.

    It was usually confined to the biggest warlords with the biggest armies voted on by their followers, but democratically elected kings(for a given value of democratic) was how most monarchies started. Its why the usual heirs during the dark ages where the kings brothers and not his son.

    It was only after much consolidation of power that the idea of automatic succession by the eldest son became the standard. Consolidation usually by killing anybody that voted for somebody else.

    The history of medieval Germany/Central Europe is pretty much the history of the Hapsburgs trying to make primogeniture a thing.

    There was more democracy in the past then Hollywood history gives credit for, believe it or not, America was not the first democracy. Nor its first republic.

    Rome had an elected component because it originally was a republic. The emperors came later and the elections were a vestige of the more republican origins. Most historical monarchies had no elections of any sort. It was powerful aristocratic families jockeying for power and once they got it their power was very dictatorial.

    Poli. Sci major here. Most Monarchies did actually start out with elected leaders in the early days. The Franks, the Danes, the Lombards, the Visigoths and Saxons all started out with elected kings. The Danish crown had to have a pro-forma election way into the 1650s. The British monarchy was elected as system of government with the Restoration and the Glorious revolution of 1688.

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  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Per Associated Press



    *nervously*

    Haha what the fuck

    Didn't they admit they killed him just "accidentally" like good christ.

    Yeah, there’s a body*.

    *some assembly required

    Its amazing though to have a president who's sole overriding priority is to avoid ever creating an environment in which anyone is held accountable lest he find himself held so.

    We basically elected Tony Soprano president, and then are surprised when he’s like “what, crime? This is a legitimate garbage hauling business and I don’t know how those body parts ended up in there”

    And they both cheat on their wives with the Russians, budda bing badda boom

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  • [Tycho?][Tycho?] Registered User regular
    edited October 17
    Ohhh, the knives are coming out now. Those paid by the Saudis are feeling the heat.
    In addition to his work as a Managing Director in one of the Saudi regime’s most devoted lobbying firms, Eskew is also a Contributing Opinion Writer at the Washington Post.
    https://theintercept.com/2018/10/15/the-washington-post-as-it-shames-others-continues-to-pay-and-publish-undisclosed-saudi-lobbyists-and-other-regime-propagandists/


    The Washington Post told a prominent Republican lobbyist he’d lose his gig as a contributing opinion writer unless he stopped lobbying for Saudi Arabia, a spokesperson for the newspaper confirmed Tuesday.
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/16/washington-post-lobbyist-writer-909881

    [Tycho?] on
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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    According to a senior CNN correspondent, the cover up involved quite literal covering up. With paint.


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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    edited October 17
    The really amazing part of this whole cluster fuck vis a vis the saudi consolate is that the man walked into that building and was then dismembered inside of it.

    Like, what the hell more do you need to conclude this was murder? What other possibility exists?

    Like, Does trump need video of the "interrogators" coming over to the man with a chainsaw saying in english "Sir, I'm going to procede to remove your legs arms and head in order to cause you considerable discomfort and ultimately kill you because the government believes you to be disloyal. Be advised that this is effectively murder."

    Gaddez on
    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
    So It GoesDesktop HippieBlackDragon480ElldrenDarkPrimusHefflingKristmas Kthulhuabotkin
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    https://apnews.com/a28cc17d27524050b37f4d91e087955e
    AP: Do you believe, sir, do you believe the king and the crown prince? I mean do you find them ... do you find them sort of trustworthy here? And there’s been a lot of talk, including from Sen. Graham, who I know is an ally of yours in many ways, that this is the moment that perhaps the U.S. relationship with Saudi Arabia should be re-evaluated, that things should be done differently going forward. What do you think of that?

    Trump: Well, I think we have to find out what happened first. You know, here we go again with, you know, you’re guilty until proven innocent. I don’t like that. We just went through that with Justice Kavanaugh. And he was innocent all the way. So I was unconcerned. So we have to find out what happened and they are doing a very major investigation. So is Turkey. Plus, they’re putting themselves together and doing it. And hopefully they’ll get to an answer as to what happened. But I will say they were very strong in their denial about themselves knowing.

    AP: Did they give you any sense of the timetable?

    Trump: I would say within a week. That’s my impression. He said two weeks. But they’re going to try and do it in less than a week.
    Of course he would be unconcerned about allegations of murdering and dismembering a journalist.

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  • KetBraKetBra FISTS OF JUSTICE! Registered User regular

    Jacqueline Alemany writes for the Washington Post

    The "two sources say Jared is a real good boy doing good work" stories will never get old, to me. What a waste of space.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    "Hey, Maybe they had a lawn mower upside down and the guy just fell into it, did you think of that? Or what about Ninja's sent from their secret iranian lair (because I'm pretty sure thats where they come from, I learned that from watching that kid melania's always hanging around play that edutainment series made by ubisoft)? Or hey maybe it was the mongolians, you know they were pretty brutal to people back in the day out there."

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
    TicaldfjamFencingsaxJazz
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Sources: Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    edited October 17
    The Wall Street Journal are reporting that the Turkish authorities have an audio recording from the murder. I’m going to spoiler the details because this is pretty horrific stuff.
    Khashoggi was dragged from the consul general’s office into his study next door and placed on a table in the room. A voice on the tape is heard inviting the consul to leave.

    After that, Khashoggi is heard screaming. He’s not interrogated. Eventually he’s drugged with an unknown substance and they begin dismembering him while he’s still alive. At one point, a voice that appears to be leading the proceedings says he is going to listen to music on his headphones, and suggests that the others do the same.

    The recording is seven minutes long.

    *edit* Middle Eastern Eye are covering the same story and aren’t behind a paywall. Their details are consistent. Apparently Turkish authorities have released three minutes of the audio to a Turkish newspaper, so that should hit tomorrow.

    Desktop Hippie on

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    The Wall Street Journal are reporting that the Turkish authorities have an audio recording from the murder. I’m going to spoiler the details because this is pretty horrific stuff.
    Khashoggi was dragged from the consul general’s office into his study next door and placed on a table in the room. A voice on the tape is heard inviting the consul to leave.

    After that, Khashoggi is heard screaming. He’s not interrogated. Eventually he’s drugged with an unknown substance and they begin dismembering him while he’s still alive. At one point, a voice that appears to be leading the proceedings says he is going to listen to music on his headphones, and suggests that the others do the same.

    The recording is seven minutes long.

    *edit* Middle Eastern Eye are covering the same story and aren’t behind a paywall. Their details are consistent. Apparently Turkish authorities have released three minutes of the audio to a Turkish newspaper, so that should hit tomorrow.

    Yeah, this stinks of petty revenge by an aggrieved autocrat.

    This is Trump if he had his way.

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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User, Moderator mod
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Yeah. It’s monumentally fucked up.


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  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    The worst part is you know these guys have probably all done it a dozen times before.

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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited October 17
    Jesus fucking christ. We dont need their money or their power or their help. This should be a foreign policy campaign issue for any major candidates going forward. If this straw doesnt break the back nothing will

    if that audio recording actually exists and goes public I dont see how any administration can ever justify support on our current level to the Saudis ever again

    Prohass on
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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »

    Jacqueline Alemany writes for the Washington Post

    The "two sources say Jared is a real good boy doing good work" stories will never get old, to me. What a waste of space.

    I dunno. I think the way it reads is more "You need to find someone to blame this on" rather than "you need to figure out what happened". Because there's simply no way in fuck that they don't know who participated in this.

    If they're only going to identify and punish the person who literally "culprit responsible for Khashoggi’s death", rather than everyone associated with the death, then it's clearly going to be someone expendable, and confessing under duress. Everyone in that room, and anyone who directed the people in the room, they're all fucking complicit, and therefore should all be punished, regardless of if they didn't deliver the final blow that killed him.

    The tweet not be conveying what was actual said, but if the tweet is an accurate representation of what was said, it's SCREAMING "Find a scapegoat, and find him soon.".

    And that's something I can absolutely believe Kushner said. The entire fucking family is about blameshifting, including the ones that married into it.

    Fencingsax
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Scooter wrote: »
    The worst part is you know these guys have probably all done it a dozen times before.

    No, the worst part of all of this is that the president of the united states would rather give benefit of the doubt to the Saudi government (even after they admitted that this happened) then accept what is blatantly obvious.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
    So It GoesEmerlmaster999Commander ZoomOrcaSmrtnikElldrenFencingsaxMagellmonikerHefflingTNTrooperJazzMan in the MistsKristmas Kthulhuautono-wally, erotibot300
  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    There's like.... in some world, someone would point out that the Turks probably aren't supposed to be have a recording of anything that goes on inside the Saudi embassy, because that'd be an illegal violation of embassy privileges, but... wtfwtfwtfwtfwtf

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Scooter wrote: »
    The worst part is you know these guys have probably all done it a dozen times before.

    No, the worst part of all of this is that the president of the united states would rather give benefit of the doubt to the Saudi government (even after they admitted that this happened) then accept what is blatantly obvious.

    But, you know, it could have been anyone. Really.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Scooter wrote: »
    The worst part is you know these guys have probably all done it a dozen times before.

    No, the worst part of all of this is that the president of the united states would rather give benefit of the doubt to the Saudi government (even after they admitted that this happened) then accept what is blatantly obvious.
    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • KetBraKetBra FISTS OF JUSTICE! Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    There's like.... in some world, someone would point out that the Turks probably aren't supposed to be have a recording of anything that goes on inside the Saudi embassy, because that'd be an illegal violation of embassy privileges, but... wtfwtfwtfwtfwtf

    Yeah, I was marvelling at how pissed the Turks must be if they're just giving up the fact that they bugged the Saudi consulate.

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Seriously, could we get someone in US politics start a whole campaign on "we don't want anything to do with the Saudi ruling family. Don't want their fucking money and don't want to be in a spot where we need to give a shit about what they say." Like I'm seeing one of my old arguments for why I'd like to be the fuck off of oil. Sure there are some chill places in this world that make some good revenue from oil and those places aren't run by fucking monsters; however, there are are a ton of places run by fucking monsters that are funded with oil money.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Chris Murphy of Connecticut feels basically that way, and he is angling to be Secretary of State in the next Democratic administration. No idea if he'd get it, but he wants the job pretty transparently.

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  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    Saudi Arabia would probably go back to funding terrorism if we cut them off, but that is a reason to cut them off in the first place instead of essentially paying them off to stop that.

    }
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  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    They never actually stopped.

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  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    Yeah that just goes to show that the strategic partnership with them is pointless. Fuck the Saudis.

    }
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  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    It seems a hell of a fluke if that room in particular was bugged. It feels more likely to me that someone among the people there recorded, for whatever reason he would do that.

    And as much as I don’t doubt something like that happened it’s probably also good to remember that Turkish authorities are also assholes who lie daily. If that audio snippet doesn’t hit today I’m gonna assume they made it up.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • KetBraKetBra FISTS OF JUSTICE! Registered User regular
    Is it a coincidence if you bug the whole facility?

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited October 17
    Also, IIRC, it was apparently the break room. Which would be a good place to overhear loose talk among staff.

    Commander Zoom on
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Honk wrote: »
    It seems a hell of a fluke if that room in particular was bugged. It feels more likely to me that someone among the people there recorded, for whatever reason he would do that.

    And as much as I don’t doubt something like that happened it’s probably also good to remember that Turkish authorities are also assholes who lie daily. If that audio snippet doesn’t hit today I’m gonna assume they made it up.

    This would be incredibly stupid for the Turkish government to lie about, so it isn't impossible, but the fact that the guy went in but didn't come oit does give them some credibility here.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    It seems a hell of a fluke if that room in particular was bugged. It feels more likely to me that someone among the people there recorded, for whatever reason he would do that.

    And as much as I don’t doubt something like that happened it’s probably also good to remember that Turkish authorities are also assholes who lie daily. If that audio snippet doesn’t hit today I’m gonna assume they made it up.

    This would be incredibly stupid for the Turkish government to lie about, so it isn't impossible, but the fact that the guy went in but didn't come oit does give them some credibility here.

    I don’t think it gives credibility to the recording existing. It gives huge credibility to the fact that the man was murdered in there but we know this already.

    The chances involved, bugging that specific room, being willing to disclose that you were bugging a consulate. It just doesn’t seem plausible to me. I’ll believe it if they release it, I’m not dumb, but not a second before that.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited October 17
    What I heard reported was that it was Khashoggi's smart watch uploading a recording to his wife's phone outside.
    Don't know if that was corroborated at all.

    Ah. Internet now suggesting that was the cover story.

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    The Wall Street Journal are reporting that the Turkish authorities have an audio recording from the murder. I’m going to spoiler the details because this is pretty horrific stuff.
    Khashoggi was dragged from the consul general’s office into his study next door and placed on a table in the room. A voice on the tape is heard inviting the consul to leave.

    After that, Khashoggi is heard screaming. He’s not interrogated. Eventually he’s drugged with an unknown substance and they begin dismembering him while he’s still alive. At one point, a voice that appears to be leading the proceedings says he is going to listen to music on his headphones, and suggests that the others do the same.

    The recording is seven minutes long.

    *edit* Middle Eastern Eye are covering the same story and aren’t behind a paywall. Their details are consistent. Apparently Turkish authorities have released three minutes of the audio to a Turkish newspaper, so that should hit tomorrow.

    This is absolutely horrifying

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    There's like.... in some world, someone would point out that the Turks probably aren't supposed to be have a recording of anything that goes on inside the Saudi embassy, because that'd be an illegal violation of embassy privileges, but... wtfwtfwtfwtfwtf

    Yeah, I was marvelling at how pissed the Turks must be if they're just giving up the fact that they bugged the Saudi consulate.

    Erdogan has basically no reason to sit on this; SA was doing wetworks within his borders, trump has fucked with him for the dumbest reasons and SA having it's relationship with the US nuked would severely weaken them as a force in the region.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    The Wall Street Journal are reporting that the Turkish authorities have an audio recording from the murder. I’m going to spoiler the details because this is pretty horrific stuff.
    Khashoggi was dragged from the consul general’s office into his study next door and placed on a table in the room. A voice on the tape is heard inviting the consul to leave.

    After that, Khashoggi is heard screaming. He’s not interrogated. Eventually he’s drugged with an unknown substance and they begin dismembering him while he’s still alive. At one point, a voice that appears to be leading the proceedings says he is going to listen to music on his headphones, and suggests that the others do the same.

    The recording is seven minutes long.

    *edit* Middle Eastern Eye are covering the same story and aren’t behind a paywall. Their details are consistent. Apparently Turkish authorities have released three minutes of the audio to a Turkish newspaper, so that should hit tomorrow.

    This is absolutely horrifying

    And I'm really hoping, but not expecting, the media will not broadcast this. That it'll be confirmed as such by someone within the news organization, but nothing actually put on air. Because no amount of disclaimers seems like it'd be enough, if it's what is purported, it's the audio track of a snuff film. And the idea of people actually wanting to listen is as ghoulish as fuck.

    The "active shooter" social media clips that they've shown in the past were horrific enough. If this is made into "entertainment" for ratings, I am going to lose it.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    What I heard reported was that it was Khashoggi's smart watch uploading a recording to his wife's phone outside.
    Don't know if that was corroborated at all.

    Ah. Internet now suggesting that was the cover story.

    Yeah, the watch story theoretically possible, but pretty obviously bullshit. Embassys tend to not have good cell reception as part of the whole 'try and prevent bugs' thing, plus he'd have to have set the thing to record audio before he got grabbed. It's possible that he went in there with picocell in bag or the watch uploaded to the cloud when they took his various giblets outside, but really this is an 'obvious cover story is obvious' situation.

    Thing about the Turks bugging the consulate is that that's one of those open secrets that nobody talks about. Everyone bugs everyone's embassy and/or consulate, and everyone knows that everyone does this. It's bad manners to admit to this, but given the specifics here the only people who will try and make hay out of it will be Trump and MBS.

    MBS really is the worst person.

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    Jesus fucking christ. We dont need their money or their power or their help. This should be a foreign policy campaign issue for any major candidates going forward. If this straw doesnt break the back nothing will

    if that audio recording actually exists and goes public I dont see how any administration can ever justify support on our current level to the Saudis ever again

    People thought the same thing after they killed those people in New York City.

    HefflingDoodmannJazzAistan
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