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[US Foreign Policy] Talk about the Foreign Policy of the United States

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    SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    NSDFRand wrote: »
    For me, it's the optics which are interesting. In the photos which Maduro paraded out you see what looks like a cheapo scope from the sporting goods section of Walmart. In this photo I see one EoTech XPS, what looks like two Aimpoint H1s, and maybe an Aimpoint CompM4 or PRO. Each of those is $400-600 each so they aren't cheap. Furniture looks to be all Magpul, except the odd one out on the left which looks like a quad rail with a low profile gas block (all the others look like free float MLOK tubes). Then it looks like some Glocks in the far left of the image. Maybe 20 years ago this much off the shelf product would look weird for a contractor or operator but it's not unusual any more. If these actually were operators this is all stuff their arms room would have, ditto for contractors.
    You are going to do so well on America's Favorite New Game Show: Soldier, Mercenary, or NRA Life Member.

    The Miami herald article mentions the group was 5 Americans, a Russian, a Serbian and a Haitian. I'm gonna go with Mercenaries. Definitely going to follow this one, it's wild.

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    SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    Update: Looks like the 5 Americans and 2 Serbians have been flown back to the US and arrested upon arrival.

    Miami Herald article: https://miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/haiti/article226540230.html

    The Haitian national was left in Haiti to face criminal charges. The 5 Americans included 2 former Navy Seals and 1 former Marine. I sure hope we actually find out what they were doing there.

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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    I know there’s an awful lot going on but we should probably talk about the Associated Press and numerous other outlets reporting Vladimir Putin’s threats to target the US with their newly developed weapons if the United States deploys missiles in Europe. Because that seems like kind of a thing.


    I'm kind of astounded this isn't getting more traction. I've got lots of chicken little thoughts on this, but I hope it's just saber rattling

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    cckerberoscckerberos Registered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I know there’s an awful lot going on but we should probably talk about the Associated Press and numerous other outlets reporting Vladimir Putin’s threats to target the US with their newly developed weapons if the United States deploys missiles in Europe. Because that seems like kind of a thing.


    I'm kind of astounded this isn't getting more traction. I've got lots of chicken little thoughts on this, but I hope it's just saber rattling

    Isn't this a purely symbolic act?

    cckerberos.png
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    I just sort of assumed at least one Russian (and Chinese) nuke is pointed a couple miles away from my house since I was a teenager. Less so during college since I was downstate, but otherwise.

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    manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I know there’s an awful lot going on but we should probably talk about the Associated Press and numerous other outlets reporting Vladimir Putin’s threats to target the US with their newly developed weapons if the United States deploys missiles in Europe. Because that seems like kind of a thing.


    I'm kind of astounded this isn't getting more traction. I've got lots of chicken little thoughts on this, but I hope it's just saber rattling

    Russia has everything to gain and nothing to lose by threats at this point. Sure, fast cruise missiles are scary, but that's about the *only* edge they theoretically have at this point in a major shooting war. Air power isn't even a question. Naval strength isn't even a question. It wouldn't be without loss, but Russia would ultimately lose more. This is just for good optics.

    manwiththemachinegun on
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    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I know there’s an awful lot going on but we should probably talk about the Associated Press and numerous other outlets reporting Vladimir Putin’s threats to target the US with their newly developed weapons if the United States deploys missiles in Europe. Because that seems like kind of a thing.


    I'm kind of astounded this isn't getting more traction. I've got lots of chicken little thoughts on this, but I hope it's just saber rattling

    Russia has everything to gain and nothing to lose by threats at this point. Sure, fast cruise missiles are scary, but that's about the *only* edge they theoretically have at this point in a major shooting war. Air power isn't even a question. Naval strength isn't even a question. It wouldn't be without loss, but Russia would ultimately lose more. This is just for good optics.

    The issue is that in the event of a shooting war there is no winner, since this inevitably escalates to nuclear missile strikes.

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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »

    Got to wonder why suddently Putin decided to throw a fit and issue threats.

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »

    Got to wonder why suddently Putin decided to throw a fit and issue threats.
    My impression is that Moscow is concerned that the US will follow up the collapse of the treaty by placing missiles in Europe, thus upsetting what remains of the MAD balance, and is threatening to react in kind in order to deter the US from doing so.

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    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »

    Got to wonder why suddently Putin decided to throw a fit and issue threats.

    My guess is it's a combination of him percieving immediate weakness in the west and the possibility of trump being dethroned in 2020 with a dash of good old fashioned showmanship for the locals.

    The part that gets to me is that he wouldn't be trying this shit if literally anyone else was sitting in the oval office.

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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    He's also likely concerned with the growing conflict between the political parties of Russia and the underfunded pensioners

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    Googling related phrases brings back some articles from 2012 where the GOP was castigating Obama for retreating from a missile shield in Europe, calling it Obama's "gift" to Putin. Only six or seven years ago, but at this point it reads like some weird mirroverse version of US politics.

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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Well, this is very interesting:

    Trish Regan works for Fox News.
    Threats of closed borders are coming from Maduro's side, so things are even more heated.

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I know there’s an awful lot going on but we should probably talk about the Associated Press and numerous other outlets reporting Vladimir Putin’s threats to target the US with their newly developed weapons if the United States deploys missiles in Europe. Because that seems like kind of a thing.


    I'm kind of astounded this isn't getting more traction. I've got lots of chicken little thoughts on this, but I hope it's just saber rattling

    Isn't this a purely symbolic act?
    So far it's just a threat. If the US and Russia follow through, it's piling another straw on the MAD camel's back. Definitely the opposite of what anyone reasonable should want to happen, IMO.

    That said I'm not sure whether to regard the threats as aggressiveness on Russia's part or just as a desperate attempt to prevent Washington from aiming a bunch of nukes at Moscow from Estonia or something. So far as I know the US hasn't said it's going to do that, but Putin sounds concerned that that could be Trump's next move after formally dissolving the treaty.

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    TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I know there’s an awful lot going on but we should probably talk about the Associated Press and numerous other outlets reporting Vladimir Putin’s threats to target the US with their newly developed weapons if the United States deploys missiles in Europe. Because that seems like kind of a thing.


    I'm kind of astounded this isn't getting more traction. I've got lots of chicken little thoughts on this, but I hope it's just saber rattling

    Isn't this a purely symbolic act?
    So far it's just a threat. If the US and Russia follow through, it's piling another straw on the MAD camel's back. Definitely the opposite of what anyone reasonable should want to happen, IMO.

    That said I'm not sure whether to regard the threats as aggressiveness on Russia's part or just as a desperate attempt to prevent Washington from aiming a bunch of nukes at Moscow from Estonia or something. So far as I know the US hasn't said it's going to do that, but Putin sounds concerned that that could be Trump's next move after formally dissolving the treaty.

    That's the strange part. The US has given no signal that is thinking on doing that, so this sudden threat of retaliation is perplexing.

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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Kaputa wrote: »
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I know there’s an awful lot going on but we should probably talk about the Associated Press and numerous other outlets reporting Vladimir Putin’s threats to target the US with their newly developed weapons if the United States deploys missiles in Europe. Because that seems like kind of a thing.


    I'm kind of astounded this isn't getting more traction. I've got lots of chicken little thoughts on this, but I hope it's just saber rattling

    Isn't this a purely symbolic act?
    So far it's just a threat. If the US and Russia follow through, it's piling another straw on the MAD camel's back. Definitely the opposite of what anyone reasonable should want to happen, IMO.

    That said I'm not sure whether to regard the threats as aggressiveness on Russia's part or just as a desperate attempt to prevent Washington from aiming a bunch of nukes at Moscow from Estonia or something. So far as I know the US hasn't said it's going to do that, but Putin sounds concerned that that could be Trump's next move after formally dissolving the treaty.

    That's the strange part. The US has given no signal that is thinking on doing that, so this sudden threat of retaliation is perplexing.

    My impression is it's Putin doing his thing to see if Trump will capitulate without any previous US action.

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    manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I know there’s an awful lot going on but we should probably talk about the Associated Press and numerous other outlets reporting Vladimir Putin’s threats to target the US with their newly developed weapons if the United States deploys missiles in Europe. Because that seems like kind of a thing.


    I'm kind of astounded this isn't getting more traction. I've got lots of chicken little thoughts on this, but I hope it's just saber rattling

    Russia has everything to gain and nothing to lose by threats at this point. Sure, fast cruise missiles are scary, but that's about the *only* edge they theoretically have at this point in a major shooting war. Air power isn't even a question. Naval strength isn't even a question. It wouldn't be without loss, but Russia would ultimately lose more. This is just for good optics.

    The issue is that in the event of a shooting war there is no winner, since this inevitably escalates to nuclear missile strikes.

    There hasn't been a legitimate threat of a traditional wnd exchange between major powers in decades. Just saber-rattling. North Korea is another matter, but that's still not likely to touch off a wmd exchange with China.

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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I know there’s an awful lot going on but we should probably talk about the Associated Press and numerous other outlets reporting Vladimir Putin’s threats to target the US with their newly developed weapons if the United States deploys missiles in Europe. Because that seems like kind of a thing.


    I'm kind of astounded this isn't getting more traction. I've got lots of chicken little thoughts on this, but I hope it's just saber rattling

    Isn't this a purely symbolic act?

    I'm not sure what else it could be. Is he saying that he'll arbitrarily cripple the targeting systems of new weapons so that they'll be unable to launch in any direction other than the U.S.?

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    JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Kaputa wrote: »
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I know there’s an awful lot going on but we should probably talk about the Associated Press and numerous other outlets reporting Vladimir Putin’s threats to target the US with their newly developed weapons if the United States deploys missiles in Europe. Because that seems like kind of a thing.


    I'm kind of astounded this isn't getting more traction. I've got lots of chicken little thoughts on this, but I hope it's just saber rattling

    Isn't this a purely symbolic act?
    So far it's just a threat. If the US and Russia follow through, it's piling another straw on the MAD camel's back. Definitely the opposite of what anyone reasonable should want to happen, IMO.

    That said I'm not sure whether to regard the threats as aggressiveness on Russia's part or just as a desperate attempt to prevent Washington from aiming a bunch of nukes at Moscow from Estonia or something. So far as I know the US hasn't said it's going to do that, but Putin sounds concerned that that could be Trump's next move after formally dissolving the treaty.

    That's the strange part. The US has given no signal that is thinking on doing that, so this sudden threat of retaliation is perplexing.

    My impression is it's Putin doing his thing to see if Trump will capitulate without any previous US action.

    This is Vlad finishing off his final stroke at being able to hold the EU at his mercy. America is man-child run and doing what he says in order for headpats from Glorious Leader Putin-sempai by pulling out of NATO, England is pretty much turbofucked by Brexit shit, and this is him gloating and showing off to the EU "Yes, I could cause you to have very, very bad days if you provoke me. America won't save you. England won't save you. By the way, about that stuff I want from you...? *insert predatory grin here*"

    This is his endgame. To start his westward creep for all those former Soviet provinces that went republic back when the USSR fell, and then to see about "persuading" all those former Soviet-bloc countries to consider rejoining him before something happens. He's putting the band back together, and it's sounding a lot like "Smells Like Russian Spirit" all over again. We're heading back to the Cold War days, which is how Vlad wants it, because now he can bully and cajole Europe without any opposition from America and England.

    steam_sig.png
    I can has cheezburger, yes?
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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    NATO still exists.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I know there’s an awful lot going on but we should probably talk about the Associated Press and numerous other outlets reporting Vladimir Putin’s threats to target the US with their newly developed weapons if the United States deploys missiles in Europe. Because that seems like kind of a thing.


    I'm kind of astounded this isn't getting more traction. I've got lots of chicken little thoughts on this, but I hope it's just saber rattling

    Russia has everything to gain and nothing to lose by threats at this point. Sure, fast cruise missiles are scary, but that's about the *only* edge they theoretically have at this point in a major shooting war. Air power isn't even a question. Naval strength isn't even a question. It wouldn't be without loss, but Russia would ultimately lose more. This is just for good optics.

    The issue is that in the event of a shooting war there is no winner, since this inevitably escalates to nuclear missile strikes.

    There hasn't been a legitimate threat of a traditional wnd exchange between major powers in decades. Just saber-rattling. North Korea is another matter, but that's still not likely to touch off a wmd exchange with China.

    There hasn't been open conflict between two nuclear powers so this isn't exactly comforting.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    So, you may have heard recently that the state department has started a worldwide campaign against the persecution of homosexuality.


    Why would Trump, who has been against transgender people in the military, supported “religious freedom” bills, and whose vp is notoriously anti-gay, support such a progressive initiative?

    Maybe because he didn’t know a damn thing about it happening:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/i-don-t-know-trump-draws-blank-homosexuality-decriminalization-push-n974161

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    ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    *worldwide campaign.







    *"worldwide" not to include Saudi Arabia or Russia for completely not corrupt reasons.

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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    NATO still exists.

    And France has it's own nuclear deterrent.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    NATO still exists.

    And France has it's own nuclear deterrent.

    And last I checked Italy alone had half the military budget of the Russian Federation. Europe is not in any serious danger because the President is a doddering idiot. Viewed as a block they're functionally a super power and Russia is a frail authoritarian regime using dreams of empire past to maintain power.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    NATO still exists.

    And France has it's own nuclear deterrent.

    And last I checked Italy alone had half the military budget of the Russian Federation. Europe is not in any serious danger because the President is a doddering idiot. Viewed as a block they're functionally a super power and Russia is a frail authoritarian regime using dreams of empire past to maintain power.

    Which doesn't much matter if Putin miscalculates and assumes Trump being an idiot means he can keep pushing.

    Fortunately he doesn't seem to be doing that. This is just "oh look what the mean Americans are making us do"

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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Any chance US intelligence is compromised in a way that’s emboldening Putin or am I just Clancying out

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    JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Any chance US intelligence is compromised in a way that’s emboldening Putin or am I just Clancying out

    He doesn't have to compromise the Intelligence community. He's got the guy who's supposed to listen to them listening and trusting him more than them. He knows Trump will always listen to him if he keeps up the praise and propping him up- he's already said he doesn't believe anything or even read the briefings they give him.

    steam_sig.png
    I can has cheezburger, yes?
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Any chance US intelligence is compromised in a way that’s emboldening Putin or am I just Clancying out

    US intelligence is absolutely compromised as fuck given who gets the briefings at the top. Not even just Trump. Kushner was probably blabbing every secret he read (which was all of them) to any middle eastern or russian investor who talked him up.

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    manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    I think on some level our diet of media and love of panic and a good scare story really oversells certain risk factors like nuclear war and the collapse of civilizations.

    What would it look like if another World War broke out? Devastating to be sure, but on the same level of World War 2? Doubtful in the extreme. What about nukes you say? Thus far, even during the highth of the cold war, when several key mistakes actually started the process of launching nuclear weapons, no-one actually had the guts to pull the temple down on themselves, and the rest of the human race.

    Is it possible? Yes, is it worth losing sleep over? No.

    It also assumes that a collapse of civilization MUST result in either extinction or everyplace turning into Mad Max all at once, because that's we think will happen. The truth is, no one knows what would happen, and no one is really *that* keen to find out. Otherwise, it would have happened already.

    manwiththemachinegun on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited February 2019
    So, you may have heard recently that the state department has started a worldwide campaign against the persecution of homosexuality.


    Why would Trump, who has been against transgender people in the military, supported “religious freedom” bills, and whose vp is notoriously anti-gay, support such a progressive initiative?

    Maybe because he didn’t know a damn thing about it happening:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/i-don-t-know-trump-draws-blank-homosexuality-decriminalization-push-n974161

    Well the president is both incredibly dumb and doggedly ignorant, but looking into this program (that I have not heard about) it seems like he's in big company in not knowing about it. I still have no firm idea of what it's supposed to be.
    The State Department in Washington has not announced a new global campaign for gay and transgender rights, raising questions about the official status of the ambassador’s plan. A department spokesman described the effort as a continuation of longstanding American policy.

    ...

    Also unclear was whether the decriminalization effort was, in fact, new. A State Department spokesman in Washington, Robert Palladino, queried after the NBC report on the effort was broadcast, said: “This really is not a big policy departure. This is longstanding and it’s bipartisan.”

    ...

    David Pressman, a former American diplomat who is a partner at the Boies Schiller Flexner law firm, who helped lead the Obama administration’s international L.G.B.T. rights strategy, said that despite his contacts among groups who work on such issues, he first heard about Mr. Grenell’s undertaking from news reports.

    “What’s surprising is that no one who works these issues within the U.S. government appears to be aware of this effort,’’ Mr. Pressman said. “No one in the groups who have been engaged on these issues appears to be aware of this effort.”

    Some leading European rights groups, including the Brussels-based ILGA-Europe, which represents L.G.B.T. people across the Continent, said they had not been invited to the dinner.

    “We don’t know the plans or the content of the decriminalization campaign,” said Markus Ulrich, a spokesman for Germany’s largest gay and lesbian rights association, LSVD.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/world/europe/grenell-homosexuality-decriminalize-.html

    The big thing that I got from trying to read about it is that the program is gonna push to end criminalization of homosexuality (great!), and will involve foreign aid. Maybe it's in an early stage, so they don’t have any details worked out, but there's not a whole lot to say about it.

    Elki on
    smCQ5WE.jpg
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    TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    Sounds like "we're going to put out a news blurb that the base can use to bludgeon accusations of homophobia, and if we also end up getting to do some Islamophobic saber-rattling or even regime change then great"

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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    TL DR wrote: »
    Sounds like "we're going to put out a news blurb that the base can use to bludgeon accusations of homophobia, and if we also end up getting to do some Islamophobic saber-rattling or even regime change then great"

    Probably this. Trump supporters brought up LGBT rights a *lot* in 2016, but almost always in a "Aren't those mooslims evil? Trump will stop them!" sort of way (the rest of course being active opposition to LGBT rights). Throwing out a fake program to start that up for 2020 makes sense.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    TL DR wrote: »
    Sounds like "we're going to put out a news blurb that the base can use to bludgeon accusations of homophobia, and if we also end up getting to do some Islamophobic saber-rattling or even regime change then great"

    Probably this. Trump supporters brought up LGBT rights a *lot* in 2016, but almost always in a "Aren't those mooslims evil? Trump will stop them!" sort of way (the rest of course being active opposition to LGBT rights). Throwing out a fake program to start that up for 2020 makes sense.

    Or, it could just be that the ambassador to Germany, who is both gay and a bit of a crazy person(he was known for ordering German businesses to stop dealing with Iran the second day on the job, without really realizing that no one in germany cares what he thinks about who they do business with) just went into business for himself and decided to announce/start a program using his own available funds and authority in the hopes that someone back home would either run with it or just forget that the German ambassadorship exists and not bother to stop him.

    Jealous Deva on
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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Also possible!

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    MovitzMovitz Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Kaputa wrote: »
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I know there’s an awful lot going on but we should probably talk about the Associated Press and numerous other outlets reporting Vladimir Putin’s threats to target the US with their newly developed weapons if the United States deploys missiles in Europe. Because that seems like kind of a thing.


    I'm kind of astounded this isn't getting more traction. I've got lots of chicken little thoughts on this, but I hope it's just saber rattling

    Isn't this a purely symbolic act?
    So far it's just a threat. If the US and Russia follow through, it's piling another straw on the MAD camel's back. Definitely the opposite of what anyone reasonable should want to happen, IMO.

    That said I'm not sure whether to regard the threats as aggressiveness on Russia's part or just as a desperate attempt to prevent Washington from aiming a bunch of nukes at Moscow from Estonia or something. So far as I know the US hasn't said it's going to do that, but Putin sounds concerned that that could be Trump's next move after formally dissolving the treaty.

    That's the strange part. The US has given no signal that is thinking on doing that, so this sudden threat of retaliation is perplexing.

    My impression is it's Putin doing his thing to see if Trump will capitulate without any previous US action.

    This is Vlad finishing off his final stroke at being able to hold the EU at his mercy. America is man-child run and doing what he says in order for headpats from Glorious Leader Putin-sempai by pulling out of NATO, England is pretty much turbofucked by Brexit shit, and this is him gloating and showing off to the EU "Yes, I could cause you to have very, very bad days if you provoke me. America won't save you. England won't save you. By the way, about that stuff I want from you...? *insert predatory grin here*"

    This is his endgame. To start his westward creep for all those former Soviet provinces that went republic back when the USSR fell, and then to see about "persuading" all those former Soviet-bloc countries to consider rejoining him before something happens. He's putting the band back together, and it's sounding a lot like "Smells Like Russian Spirit" all over again. We're heading back to the Cold War days, which is how Vlad wants it, because now he can bully and cajole Europe without any opposition from America and England.

    The analysis here (in Northern Europe) is that his statements are mostly for internal audiences. The quotes are from his yearly, heavily scripted, Q&A where he needs to look stronk as the economy is shit and his approval ratings are the lowest in ages.

    He's still an authoritarian despot in a country with a huge chip on its shoulder, and therefore dangerous. But these statements doesn't really change much.

    Movitz on
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    SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    Hey remember all those US mercenaries that got caught with illegal weapons in Haiti and were sent back to the US, where they were 'arrested'? They've been let go with no charges.

    https://miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article226572869.html

    Looks almost like the 'arrest' in Miami airport might have been for show.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Putin has always been considerably less threatening that Putin projects because he deliberately tries to be threatening

    Like, the whole "Russia will replace the US as a global power" no, no it won't. Russia has less global power projection than the UK, if there was a crisis in, say, South Africa? The UK would probably be able to put more power there than Russia and China combined, and they're a far second place in power projection to the US. They like to make all these statements about missiles and so on because that's really all they have. Syria was a massive undertaking for them, it really strained their resources and capabilities, and they still had less air power projection there than the US-led coalition.

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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Putin has always been considerably less threatening that Putin projects because he deliberately tries to be threatening

    Like, the whole "Russia will replace the US as a global power" no, no it won't. Russia has less global power projection than the UK, if there was a crisis in, say, South Africa? The UK would probably be able to put more power there than Russia and China combined, and they're a far second place in power projection to the US. They like to make all these statements about missiles and so on because that's really all they have. Syria was a massive undertaking for them, it really strained their resources and capabilities, and they still had less air power projection there than the US-led coalition.

    The "small man" theory of international relations.

This discussion has been closed.