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[Doctor Who] He Sings, He Dances, He Has Magic Gloves

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Posts

  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    Last episode (which I thought was pretty great):
    Given that he got his 'Grandad' moment last week, I'm just very glad they decided Graham was the better man rather than having him swiftly killed off for his hubris.

    Seriously though how pathetically nonthreatening was Tim Shaw and his robo-army?. The robots shoot each other cartoon style and then Tim just kind of stands there and gets defeated by being shot in the foot.
    What was his plan if Graham had wanted to kill him? Seems he would have been a sitting duck.

    Very enjoyable though. I often find big finale Whos fail to stick the landing for all the buildup so this one being fairly low key in the callbacks worked out well to me.

    MhCw7nZ.gif
  • BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    So the finale episode was OK. It was fine. I dunno
    what Tim Shaw wanted the other planets for, exactly, but maybe it was all just to get the Doctor there so he could destroy Earth in front of her. OK, fine. Bradley Walsh continues to be the only companion to really have the material to make an impact.Not sure why they hired Mark Addy and then asked him to do not much more than look a bit confused in repeated scenes, but OK, fine.
    There's a throwaway line that he took planets that defied the Stencils.

    ...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
  • mori1972mori1972 FF14: Rhotfyr Thosinmharsyn (Y)UKRegistered User regular
    Re the last episode:
    Yeah, I mean, wasn't there something in there about how the Stenza take trophies from their kills (the dental work Tim Shaw had etc etc) and he was sort of gloating that his race had never found a way to take a trophy out of destroying a whole civilisation...at least until now, which is what the planets in the crystals were meant to be: trophies of his victories over whole worlds

    I dunno really...as a monster of the week episode it was...decent enough. Feels a bit like damning with faint praise, but it definitely did not have the emotional impact of a season finale. It's a shame - Whittaker as the Doctor has been absolutely fantastic, and I'm thrilled to see more of her interpretation going forward, and Graham has been a solid companion (although not hitting the heady heights of folks like Donna, the Ponds or Clara); Yaz showed promise in a few episodes but then never seemed to amount to much, and I kinda felt that most of the writers didn't really know what to do with Ryan as a character.

    And that I think is the biggest difference. If I was asked to talk about older companions, I'd probably be able to give a lengthy spiel about their personalities as much as their actions/adventures; they felt a lot more fleshed-out and three dimensional. The latest gang, it's more like outlining a character brief (dealing with the grief of a loved one passing away, is a junior police officer, is dyspraxic); its all very 'what they are' as opposed to 'who they are'.

    Ah well...here's hoping that the series can build on the groundwork laid.

    It's all saltwater these days:
    Ocean, tears and heartbreak soup
    Half alive in a whitecap foam
    Half in love with a white half moon
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    This has arguably been the worst season of Doctor Who I've seen, and it's pretty frustrating if the fanbase is still making it about Jodie because it has nothing to do with Jodie at all. She's not the problem.

    I'm hoping that they work out all the kinks and get it all figured out for next season, but asking me to wait until 2020 to knock the bad taste out of my mouth for another short season is....asking a lot. Maybe the New Year's special will get the job done.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Graham and Ryan have more personality than Clara did, in my opinion (Yaz is just generic companion to be honest)

  • CyvrosCyvros Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    I’ve heard Yaz described as 2018’s Nyssa and... yeah...

    It’s disappointing bc it seems like the actor has plenty of personality, it’s just she doesn’t have the opportunity to show it on-screen.

    (Edit: Not that Nyssa had as little written personality as Yaz, that is. More that Nyssa was underserved by her scripts.)

    Cyvros on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Graham and Ryan have more personality than Clara did, in my opinion (Yaz is just generic companion to be honest)

    True for when Clara first turned up, but by the end? No way, she was a true Companion. These 3 are still working on that (well, Graham and Ryan are), I didn't even realize this was a finale until I read it here today. Entire season was a warm up.

    Really don't need pause to forget them all. Someone give the BBC a loan.

  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    I feel like the Ux really should have have known who the Doctor was. Or at the very least know that she is a Time Lord, if not the thousand plus year intergalactic superhero/villian that the Doctor is known as. Especially after the younger one immediately understood the technology behind the "bigger on the inside" of the Tardis.

    Other than that, I found it to be a good episode. One of the few this whole season.

    Steelhawk on
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    What Clara had was a complicated back story. Her personality was pretty much the same as Yaz - generic perky.

  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    What Clara had was a complicated back story. Her personality was pretty much the same as Yaz - generic perky.
    That is simply untrue for her final season at least. The series makes a point that she’s changed after Danny’s death, becoming more foolhardy, almost to the point of arrogance, acting like she thinks she’s the Doctor. Arguably, it’s what brings about the situation in her last few episodes.

    Thirith on
    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Yeah, she got into the habit of doing something stupid without thinking it through while saying "this is clever", and needing the Doctor to salvage it.
    Until she did something too stupid and pointless for the Doctor to save her from without breaking the universe.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    Clara's change comes earlier than that, IMO. Her personality materialises in the 50th Anniversary episode, the first one after the mystery surrounding her was resolved. It's like they got that out of the way and then she was allowed to be a person.

    It sounds like a lot of Series 7 was winging it, to be honest. Clara was written up through Neil Gaiman's episode to be the Victorian governess incarnation, not the blank slate she ended up being for that batch of episodes. Then they settled on her being a teacher and she suddenly gets good.

    Also heard it told round the campfire that much of Series 8 was written with the intent of it being Matt Smith's final series, bound to Trenzalore. Kill The Moon is one such episode, which suddenly makes a lot more sense, set on some alien world's moon rather than ours, where it's hatching can be allowed to be a Big Deal rather than shrugged off as in the finished episode.

    Oh brilliant
  • wanderingwandering Russia state-affiliated media Registered User regular
    I think it maybe says something that I have no memory of Clara being in the 50th anniversary episode

  • mori1972mori1972 FF14: Rhotfyr Thosinmharsyn (Y)UKRegistered User regular
    Well speaking personally, I definitely recall her character being pretty fundamental to influencing the Doctor and getting him to reconsider his whole approach to the Gallifrey situation/usage of the Moment

    It's all saltwater these days:
    Ocean, tears and heartbreak soup
    Half alive in a whitecap foam
    Half in love with a white half moon
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    I definitely recall not liking Clara and I definitely recall missing Clara the moment she was gone.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Bill had about a thousand times more charisma and personality than Clara. I can actually remember her doing things in episodes.

  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    I liked Clara in her first appearance as a Dalek. After that I got annoyed at the whole "WooooOOooooOOO It's a myyyysteryyyyy!" aspect of her character. Once they sort of dropped that and she just stuck around she was fine. Not my favorite companion but also nowhere near the bottom.

    I think Clara suffered by being around in some really awful episodes where she was tainted by association and also being out-shone in the best episodes in which she took part by really stellar performances by the Doctor(s) also present. The Ponds and Bill all had episodes that they really carried but Clara's were pretty much all either great Doctor eps or just unmitigated disasters.

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    I liked that Clara did not like the Capaldi Doctor.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    I liked that Clara did not like the Capaldi Doctor.

    I did not notice that at all. Must have been subtle.

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    It is pretty obvious on the mummy train episode. She was wanting to move on.

    Krathoon on
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    It was a plot point and character development. She didn’t dislike him, but it was dangerous and constantly escaping with him was harming her ‘real’ life. She didn’t like him at first, maybe, but it didn’t last long.

  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Yeah. She didn't like that he was a grumpy old man at first as opposed to 11's young and silly. She got over it.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Yeah. She didn't like that he was a grumpy old man at first as opposed to 11's young and silly. She got over it.

    Oh yeah, I interpreted that as addressing the possible audience issue of "Why isn't he young and cool anymore?"

  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    I do feel that Clara's development kind of stalled later on (in that her development was already done, so she was just kinda coasting). At the same time, I liked that she was also a companion that sort of knew the Doctor inside and out due to what she went through. There are companions who are all "Oh my god you're an alien, why are you doing all these weird things?!" and then there's Clara and "Tell me what you knew or I swear I'll slap you so hard you'll regenerate.".

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Yeah in hindsight it was really refreshing that Clara knew all his faces already and knew regeneration was a thing he did, but then still had that episode of having a negative reaction when he did it, like she had been betrayed.

    Rose felt betrayed too, but mostly because she realized she didn't know jack shit anything about him.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    I always liked the cracks showing up in the Smith arc.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod


    Interesting, in that you can see what they're getting at and how they've tried to do it with Whittaker. I dunno if it's been successful, though.

  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    I thought this Atlantic article was an interesting insight into what they were trying to do this year. I think this idea that the Doctor hasn't been able to just ride in, fix the problem and save the day is what is frustrating to some people. They Doctor can't just "solve" racism (Rosa) or sexism (Witchhunt), especially not on Earth. I think the article has really shifted my viewpoint a bit, and I find myself, looking back, liking the season a bit more (still haven't seen the last episode yet though).

    chrono_traveller on
    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    I think it's correct to step away from the lonely god characterization some, but that article did not convince me they didn't go way too far in the other direction
    The Doctor isn’t an exceptional woman. The Doctor is a woman.
    I don't want to watch a show where The Doctor is not an exceptional person!

  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    I don't have a problem with her not solving social problems, though. If she solved social problems that would be really gross. Who was asking the show to have her fix racism or sexism?

    I'm increasingly more frustrated with the framing of what's wrong with the show than I am with how bad the show is right now. The companions suck. The episode wraps suck. Many of the episodes had no actual villain, and would bleed the conflict out instead of addressing it and confronting it. Start there. There's more, for sure, but just start there, and stop expanding those out to other non-existent arguments.

    There are several things they're doing right now that are legitimately better now. The cinematography is better, it looks more modern. The Doctor is a woman, and the actress is really good. Their sets are really interesting now and the production value of those sets looks much better in general (TARDIS excluded...). The show is more sci-fi than it's been in a long time, and they do some Bill Nye in every episode, which is very cool. There's less focus on The Doctor being a god and more focus on her being an adventurer, which the series has needed for a long time.

    BUT, those pros and cons don't balance out to a good show. They're balancing out to a bad show. And no amount of focus or reflection on the pros will cancel out the need to address the cons.

    (to be clear, I'm frustrated not with chrono_traveller or any poster here, but general Who fanboys/girls and that Atlantic article.)

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    edited December 2018
    It may not have been the best choice to go this far away from the lonely God theme and be the first female Doctor.

    I would very much like see a kick ass Jodie Whitaker.

    MichaelLC on
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    I think it's correct to step away from the lonely god characterization some, but that article did not convince me they didn't go way too far in the other direction
    The Doctor isn’t an exceptional woman. The Doctor is a woman.
    I don't want to watch a show where The Doctor is not an exceptional person!
    MichaelLC wrote: »
    It may not have been the best choice to go this far away from the lonely God theme and be the first female Doctor.

    I'm definitely in the camp where they needed to move away from the lonely god theme, but I hadn't considered the effects of moving away from it while also switching to the first female Doctor, until now. Yeah, that's uh...really bad. It kinda makes it look like The Doctor sucks when she's a girl.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • StraygatsbyStraygatsby Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Personally, I enjoyed a season largely free of canon to the point I was disappointed that they brought back tooth bro for the finale. Trying to enjoy Who through the lens of decades can be an exhausting experience, especially with the aggressive cataloging and picking of nits the internet and fans in general are now able to engage in. That's not to say I don't love the historicity and complexity available through the fandom - I just don't think it is necessary.

    I like the Doctor and Graham (character and actors) a lot, and I think there's a lot of thought and heart in their writing and execution, but the other companions and the show itself need work. I appreciate the direction and cinematography exercise that has changed the look of the show, but I'm concerned that the Broadchurchian grimdark that is its origin might stamp down on some of the more fantastic set and effects work. I hope they can be flexible going forward.

    All in all, I'd miss this iteration if it weren't come back next year, but I do think they've got a lot of work to do.

    Straygatsby on
  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    Yeah, it's probably wrapped up in some double-standards garbage but maybe a slower transition would have been better.

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    I still have to finish watching the last episode and the one with about Yaz's family.

  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    I dunno, I don't need "lonely god", but at the same time I still want her "The Doctor is no longer here" moment where he/she is on the tipping point of the proverbial edge.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65N7tTaxmdQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P44SezQ2gzE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrjjPr-afBs

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • ApocalyptusApocalyptus Registered User regular
    I don’t know, I don’t think every Doctor should be expected to hit the same character beats. They each have their own temperament and way of reacting to things.

    Would we have expected, say, Five to have a tipping point moment?

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    I'll make you sad.
    https://youtu.be/XWU6XL9xI4k

  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    I don’t know, I don’t think every Doctor should be expected to hit the same character beats. They each have their own temperament and way of reacting to things.

    Would we have expected, say, Five to have a tipping point moment?

    I've never seen five, but all in all going from what I'v seen of all the new Doctors: Yes. It's more entertaining.

    Xeddicus on
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