Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Like a centipede waiting for the other shoe to drop in [The Economy] thread

2456715

Posts

  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Hi economy thread, I'm back with more of my bullshit. This time, analysis of the tax cut and its impact on America.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/business/economy/trumps-tax-cut-was-supposed-to-change-corporate-behavior-heres-what-happened.html
    First, the impact on the US Treasury:
    The growing budget gap means the Treasury must borrow more to keep the government running. The Treasury expects to borrow a total of $1.338 trillion from global investors this calendar year. That would be 145 percent higher than the $546 billion the federal government borrowed last year. That would be the highest level of borrowing since 2010, when the American economy was struggling to recover from the great recession.
    And its impact on employment:
    Many companies also said they would use tax savings to create jobs. But the Just Capital research finds that, since the tax cuts were passed, the 1,000 largest public companies have actually reduced employment, on balance. They have announced the elimination of nearly 140,000 jobs — which is almost double the 73,000 jobs they say they have created in that time. About half of those net losses came from companies in the restaurant and leisure industries, the analysis found.
    And generally speaking its data supporting things we knew about; executive pay and bonuses skyrocketing, worker wages continuing to stagnate, etc. There's also something in there about stock buybacks being a focus of corporate money flow in the wake of the tax cut, but it's worded neutrally. Considering it's at the corporate end though, I assume it's bad and I hate the stock market and investors alike anyway.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
    monikerKayne Red RobeL Ron HowardGnome-InterruptusMartini_PhilosopherIncenjucar
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    how not at all surprising.

    steam_sig.png
    Steam, Warframe: Megajoule
    FencingsaxKnight_KarozXaquinAegisEtiowsaSmrtnikTomantamonikeriTunesIsEvilL Ron HowardkimeGnome-InterruptusabotkinMarty81CogbrynhrtmnMrVyngaardDonnictonHefflingCantideMartini_PhilosopherSolarIncenjucarJoolanderjimb213MatevSkeith
  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    We just haven't given the rich enought money yet for trickle down to happen yet. A few more tax cut's should do it.

    KarozmonikerL Ron HowardButterskimeGnome-InterruptusIncenjucarMatev
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    We just haven't given the rich enought money yet for trickle down to happen yet. A few more tax cut's should do it.

    The flaw in Laffer's work is that he never explored a negative tax rate on the wealthy. There's no reason to believe the massive returns we've already seen would not increase even more if the government took the logical step of simply taxing everyone else to subsidize the nation's wealthiest citizens.



    Also on Steam and PSN: twobadcats
    Captain InertiaButterstynicGiggles_Funsworthdispatch.o
  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Viskod wrote: »
    Oh now the stock market isn't doing great and it's the democrats fault.

    The prospect of Presidential Harassment by the Dems is causing the Stock Market big headaches!

    Maybe if he doesn't want all that attention he shouldn't dress like that.

    I can't even right a backhanded piece of cruelty about trump because I hate him so much. Still, consider this post to have included a cruel and subtle burn about blaming the victim!

    I mean Obama was presidentially harrassed for years and the stock market did great. Maybe Trump should just think of the team and try to enjoy it. Lots of presidents would be flattered.

    I think Trump is threatening more tarriffs bullshit and blowing up more trade deals as a coping mechanism for the stress of being investigated.

    The Russians new marching orders for him are to create Hoover villes as best he can.

    steam_sig.png
    MWO: Adamski
  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Remember that $12 billion bailout program for farmers who were shut out of Chinese markets, which was basically a bribe to buy their votes in the midterms?

    Would it surprise you to learn that it was basically a lie by the lying liar? Oh, the program technically exists, but it's only giving out a fraction of the funds, and primarily to investors, large agricorp types, and Chuck Grassley. It's a bureaucratic nightmare that most farmers can't navigate, probably by design, and also apparently hits the dairy farmers the hardest after all that BS about renegotiating NAFTA to force Canada to accept American dairy products.

    Huh, a complete lack of surprise.

    shrykemonikerGnome-InterruptusbrynhrtmnL Ron HowardOrcaFencingsaxkimeDoodmannMorganVNyysjanKarozSmrtnikTNTrooperButtersHefflingabotkinMartini_PhilosopherAegisIncenjucarJoolanderSealLoisLaneLovelywebguy20RickRudethatassemblyguyMatevSkeithElldrenboogedybooVeagleMvrckGiggles_Funsworthdispatch.o
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Mayabird wrote: »
    Remember that $12 billion bailout program for farmers who were shut out of Chinese markets, which was basically a bribe to buy their votes in the midterms?

    Would it surprise you to learn that it was basically a lie by the lying liar? Oh, the program technically exists, but it's only giving out a fraction of the funds, and primarily to investors, large agricorp types, and Chuck Grassley. It's a bureaucratic nightmare that most farmers can't navigate, probably by design, and also apparently hits the dairy farmers the hardest after all that BS about renegotiating NAFTA to force Canada to accept American dairy products.

    Huh, a complete lack of surprise.

    Trump never helps anyone but himself.

    SleepRchanenMayabirdGnome-InterruptusL Ron HowardOrcaFencingsaxJepherykimeDoodmannKarozMrVyngaardDonnictonHefflingCantideabotkinMartini_PhilosopherIncenjucarwebguy20RickRudethatassemblyguyjimb213MatevElldren
  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard Registered User regular
    "If you vote for me (and my terrible minions in the same party) I'll totally and honestly give you this bailout! I promise!"

    Commander ZoomKaroz
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Mayabird wrote: »
    Remember that $12 billion bailout program for farmers who were shut out of Chinese markets, which was basically a bribe to buy their votes in the midterms?

    Would it surprise you to learn that it was basically a lie by the lying liar? Oh, the program technically exists, but it's only giving out a fraction of the funds, and primarily to investors, large agricorp types, and Chuck Grassley. It's a bureaucratic nightmare that most farmers can't navigate, probably by design, and also apparently hits the dairy farmers the hardest after all that BS about renegotiating NAFTA to force Canada to accept American dairy products.

    Huh, a complete lack of surprise.

    worth mentioning that it's just using the standard rules set up for this sort of bailout, rather than having them rewritten for this specific instance.

    I'm reading that dairy farmers don't much care about access to Canada - it's Mexico where the money is, as they're our largest trading partner in the dairy industry.

  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Mayabird wrote: »
    Remember that $12 billion bailout program for farmers who were shut out of Chinese markets, which was basically a bribe to buy their votes in the midterms?

    Would it surprise you to learn that it was basically a lie by the lying liar? Oh, the program technically exists, but it's only giving out a fraction of the funds, and primarily to investors, large agricorp types, and Chuck Grassley. It's a bureaucratic nightmare that most farmers can't navigate, probably by design, and also apparently hits the dairy farmers the hardest after all that BS about renegotiating NAFTA to force Canada to accept American dairy products.

    Huh, a complete lack of surprise.

    worth mentioning that it's just using the standard rules set up for this sort of bailout, rather than having them rewritten for this specific instance.

    I'm reading that dairy farmers don't much care about access to Canada - it's Mexico where the money is, as they're our largest trading partner in the dairy industry.

    A side-effect of Canada's supply management system is that Canada always has enough milk everywhere. The only way into the market is to undercut Canadian producers. Annnd Canada's population is less than that of California's. So. 3% or 5% or whatever, it wasn't really going to save American dairy farmers.

    Gnome-InterruptusElldren
  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Mayabird wrote: »
    Remember that $12 billion bailout program for farmers who were shut out of Chinese markets, which was basically a bribe to buy their votes in the midterms?

    Would it surprise you to learn that it was basically a lie by the lying liar? Oh, the program technically exists, but it's only giving out a fraction of the funds, and primarily to investors, large agricorp types, and Chuck Grassley. It's a bureaucratic nightmare that most farmers can't navigate, probably by design, and also apparently hits the dairy farmers the hardest after all that BS about renegotiating NAFTA to force Canada to accept American dairy products.

    Huh, a complete lack of surprise.

    Trump never helps anyone but himself.

    More that he cannot help himself.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    Dow is net negative for the year after yesterday.

    I don't really read too much into this and its correlation to the current economy, but now Trump can't point to the stock market as his big achievement like he has.

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

    SleepmonikerNo-QuarterthatassemblyguyMatev
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Dow is net negative for the year after yesterday.

    I don't really read too much into this and its correlation to the current economy, but now Trump can't point to the stock market as his big achievement like he has.

    He's bragging about oil prices now

    nevermind oil prices are going down due to reduced economic forecasts

    FencingsaxSleepmonikerthatassemblyguyMatevtynicElldren
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Dow is net negative for the year after yesterday.

    I don't really read too much into this and its correlation to the current economy, but now Trump can't point to the stock market as his big achievement like he has.

    Only two weeks after winning the House the Democrats have managed to crash the stock market argle bargle blah blah.

    Unfortunately that's an easier story to tell than trying to explain that Trump's trade wars are starting to bear fruit.

    DoodmannSleepGnome-InterruptusPhoenix-DXaquinKarozButtersCommander ZoomelectricitylikesmethatassemblyguyMatevHefflingElldren
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    Yeah the lag between the economy and who's in charge always appears to make Republicans preside over good times and Democrats over bad ones, when that's a super shallow reading and people should think for 5 seconds about it.

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

    Commander ZoomLovely
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Dow is net negative for the year after yesterday.

    I don't really read too much into this and its correlation to the current economy, but now Trump can't point to the stock market as his big achievement like he has.

    What's the definition for a Bear market? I know Recession is 2 quarters back to back, and Bull runs are basically just going up, but never really wrapped my head around Bears hibernating.

  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Dow is net negative for the year after yesterday.

    I don't really read too much into this and its correlation to the current economy, but now Trump can't point to the stock market as his big achievement like he has.

    He's bragging about oil prices now

    nevermind oil prices are going down due to reduced economic forecasts

    Also never mind that we get 11% of our foreign oil from Saudi Arabia and 40% from Canada.
    Also never mind that Saudi Arabia was going to restrict their oil production to intentionally drive prices back up.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Dow is net negative for the year after yesterday.

    I don't really read too much into this and its correlation to the current economy, but now Trump can't point to the stock market as his big achievement like he has.

    What's the definition for a Bear market? I know Recession is 2 quarters back to back, and Bull runs are basically just going up, but never really wrapped my head around Bears hibernating.

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bearmarket.asp

    Supposedly when there's a 20% or greater drop over a 2 month period. Or more generally, a market in which prices are falling, encouraging selling.

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Dow is net negative for the year after yesterday.

    I don't really read too much into this and its correlation to the current economy, but now Trump can't point to the stock market as his big achievement like he has.

    What's the definition for a Bear market? I know Recession is 2 quarters back to back, and Bull runs are basically just going up, but never really wrapped my head around Bears hibernating.

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bearmarket.asp

    Supposedly when there's a 20% or greater drop over a 2 month period. Or more generally, a market in which prices are falling, encouraging selling.

    So basically if a Correction doesn't start to turn around at the 10% mark?

  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Honestly all these rules and guidelines are just silly. You know when things are bad or good far better than the market shows you whether they are.

    It's an absurd situation too, because Trump could just, stop the damned tariffs and the republicans could just put pence in charge and we could be back to business as usual in a week or two with Trump safely in jail for tax fraud.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
    electricitylikesme
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Honestly all these rules and guidelines are just silly. You know when things are bad or good far better than the market shows you whether they are.

    It's an absurd situation too, because Trump could just, stop the damned tariffs and the republicans could just put pence in charge and we could be back to business as usual in a week or two with Trump safely in jail for tax fraud.

    While I firmly believe that incarcerating Trump is the correct course of action (provided of course he is actually guilty of what he is accused of), doing so would almost certainly cause at least a temporary downturn in the market. Not that this is an argument against doing so.



    Also on Steam and PSN: twobadcats
    DoodmannSleepbrynhrtmnBlackDragon480Disco11AresProphetElldren
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Dow is net negative for the year after yesterday.

    I don't really read too much into this and its correlation to the current economy, but now Trump can't point to the stock market as his big achievement like he has.

    What's the definition for a Bear market? I know Recession is 2 quarters back to back, and Bull runs are basically just going up, but never really wrapped my head around Bears hibernating.

    Bulls horns point up, bear's claws point down

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    if the Wall St statue is any indication, Bulls also have unusually shiny balls because everyone touches them

    DoodmannmonikerElldren
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    god, that can't be a thing can it?

  • LoisLaneLoisLane Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    god, that can't be a thing can it?

    It is.

    monikerChiselphaneMorganVGnome-InterruptusSmrtnikCommander ZoomSleepDark Raven XTetraRayshrykeMatevSkeithHefflingElldren
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    LoisLane wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    god, that can't be a thing can it?

    It is.

    =/

    LoisLaneOrcaLovely
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Dow is net negative for the year after yesterday.

    I don't really read too much into this and its correlation to the current economy, but now Trump can't point to the stock market as his big achievement like he has.

    What's the definition for a Bear market? I know Recession is 2 quarters back to back, and Bull runs are basically just going up, but never really wrapped my head around Bears hibernating.

    Bulls horns point up, bear's claws point down

    I was always told it originated from the practice of bull and bear baiting in 17th century England. The coffee houses where the traders of the day worked were across the Thames from the main bull and bear baiting rings on Bankside, and so after work the traders would cross the bridge and watch these activities. If you had dogs in the fight, you were likely to suffer more losses against the bear than against the bull.



    Also on Steam and PSN: twobadcats
    BlackDragon480
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Honestly all these rules and guidelines are just silly. You know when things are bad or good far better than the market shows you whether they are.

    It's an absurd situation too, because Trump could just, stop the damned tariffs and the republicans could just put pence in charge and we could be back to business as usual in a week or two with Trump safely in jail for tax fraud.

    While I firmly believe that incarcerating Trump is the correct course of action (provided of course he is actually guilty of what he is accused of), doing so would almost certainly cause at least a temporary downturn in the market. Not that this is an argument against doing so.

    You think that this course would cause a downturn

    1) Senate passes a resolution stating that Trump has exceeded his authority in passing the tariffs without their permission, it receives like 75 votes in the Senate
    2) Trump refuses to withdraw the tariffs
    3) Senate over-rules him
    4) Senate states that Trumps actions are irresponsible, and indicate he may be innapropriate to govern. They subpeona his tax returns
    5) Trump refuses to hand over his tax returns
    6) The Senate impeaches Trump to replace him with Pence stating that refusing to respond to a subpeona of these nature is a high crime/misdemeanor
    7) Senate votes to impeach like 75-25
    8) Trump removed from office, replaced with Pence
    9) Pence removes tariffs, gives speech about unity and calm and blah blah
    10) As a private citizen, Trumps tax returns are seized, his obvious crimes are found and he is sent to jail for a long time
    11) Murdoch and others order Fox and co to turn on Trump and destroy his memory
    12) Country united in hatred of Trump. Pence removes tariffs and enjoys popularity bump from just 'not being a psycopath'

    No way that hurts the market, its REMOVING uncertainty.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Honestly all these rules and guidelines are just silly. You know when things are bad or good far better than the market shows you whether they are.

    It's an absurd situation too, because Trump could just, stop the damned tariffs and the republicans could just put pence in charge and we could be back to business as usual in a week or two with Trump safely in jail for tax fraud.

    While I firmly believe that incarcerating Trump is the correct course of action (provided of course he is actually guilty of what he is accused of), doing so would almost certainly cause at least a temporary downturn in the market. Not that this is an argument against doing so.

    You think that this course would cause a downturn

    1) Senate passes a resolution stating that Trump has exceeded his authority in passing the tariffs without their permission, it receives like 75 votes in the Senate
    2) Trump refuses to withdraw the tariffs
    3) Senate over-rules him
    4) Senate states that Trumps actions are irresponsible, and indicate he may be innapropriate to govern. They subpeona his tax returns
    5) Trump refuses to hand over his tax returns
    6) The Senate impeaches Trump to replace him with Pence stating that refusing to respond to a subpeona of these nature is a high crime/misdemeanor
    7) Senate votes to impeach like 75-25
    8) Trump removed from office, replaced with Pence
    9) Pence removes tariffs, gives speech about unity and calm and blah blah
    10) As a private citizen, Trumps tax returns are seized, his obvious crimes are found and he is sent to jail for a long time
    11) Murdoch and others order Fox and co to turn on Trump and destroy his memory
    12) Country united in hatred of Trump. Pence removes tariffs and enjoys popularity bump from just 'not being a psycopath'

    No way that hurts the market, its REMOVING uncertainty.

    One would think so, but the counter is that if a sitting President is successfully prosecuted for being a crook, the next thing you know, other shady, wealthy people could also be prosecuted. That creates some real uncertainty.



    Also on Steam and PSN: twobadcats
    electricitylikesmeKayne Red RobeCaptain InertiaCelestialBadgerMatevHefflingElldren
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Honestly all these rules and guidelines are just silly. You know when things are bad or good far better than the market shows you whether they are.

    It's an absurd situation too, because Trump could just, stop the damned tariffs and the republicans could just put pence in charge and we could be back to business as usual in a week or two with Trump safely in jail for tax fraud.

    While I firmly believe that incarcerating Trump is the correct course of action (provided of course he is actually guilty of what he is accused of), doing so would almost certainly cause at least a temporary downturn in the market. Not that this is an argument against doing so.

    You think that this course would cause a downturn

    1) Senate passes a resolution stating that Trump has exceeded his authority in passing the tariffs without their permission, it receives like 75 votes in the Senate
    2) Trump refuses to withdraw the tariffs
    3) Senate over-rules him
    4) Senate states that Trumps actions are irresponsible, and indicate he may be innapropriate to govern. They subpeona his tax returns
    5) Trump refuses to hand over his tax returns
    6) The Senate impeaches Trump to replace him with Pence stating that refusing to respond to a subpeona of these nature is a high crime/misdemeanor
    7) Senate votes to impeach like 75-25
    8) Trump removed from office, replaced with Pence
    9) Pence removes tariffs, gives speech about unity and calm and blah blah
    10) As a private citizen, Trumps tax returns are seized, his obvious crimes are found and he is sent to jail for a long time
    11) Murdoch and others order Fox and co to turn on Trump and destroy his memory
    12) Country united in hatred of Trump. Pence removes tariffs and enjoys popularity bump from just 'not being a psycopath'

    No way that hurts the market, its REMOVING uncertainty.

    One would think so, but the counter is that if a sitting President is successfully prosecuted for being a crook, the next thing you know, other shady, wealthy people could also be prosecuted. That creates some real uncertainty.

    i.e, all of them.

    steam_sig.png
    Steam, Warframe: Megajoule
    Captain InertiaHeffling
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    The last time we impeached a President the economy booked to an unprecedented degree. But Bogart and SIG have enough problems with the other threads.

    Barring something crazy happening next week it'll basically be 2 straight months down for the S&P, and the October peak was barely above the high from January's exuberance over the tax law. Things shouldn't be this fragile.

    DoodmannGnome-Interruptus
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    The last time we impeached a President the economy booked to an unprecedented degree. But Bogart and SIG have enough problems with the other threads.

    Barring something crazy happening next week it'll basically be 2 straight months down for the S&P, and the October peak was barely above the high from January's exuberance over the tax law. Things shouldn't be this fragile.

    Seems pretty simple. Most of the tax changes were spent on buybacks and the investors have been profit taking since?

  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    Plus the tariffs are old enough to put real hurt on people and can't be worked around like the beginning of the year.

    I also don't see foreign tariffs coming off post Trump without the US giving up permanent gains.

    Even if we go "sorry China, we elected a madman for a bit, can we go back to how things were?"

    I expect China will say "sure, but it will cost you."

    No one should ever trust the USA again.

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

    MorganVL Ron HowardVishNubBlackDragon480Gnome-InterruptusBandableCantideCogCommander ZoombrynhrtmnMatevjkylefultonSkeithdavidsdurionsHefflingElldrenMartini_PhilosopherGiggles_Funsworth
  • TNTrooperTNTrooper Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    The last time we impeached a President the economy booked to an unprecedented degree. But Bogart and SIG have enough problems with the other threads.

    Barring something crazy happening next week it'll basically be 2 straight months down for the S&P, and the October peak was barely above the high from January's exuberance over the tax law. Things shouldn't be this fragile.

    Seems pretty simple. Most of the tax changes were spent on buybacks and the investors have been profit taking since?

    And the stupid trade war. And Brexit is coming up.

    steam_sig.png
    VishNubFencingsaxmonikerCommander Zoom
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Plus the tariffs are old enough to put real hurt on people and can't be worked around like the beginning of the year.

    I also don't see foreign tariffs coming off post Trump without the US giving up permanent gains.

    Even if we go "sorry China, we elected a madman for a bit, can we go back to how things were?"

    I expect China will say "sure, but it will cost you."

    No one should ever trust the USA again.

    I wouldn't be surprised that the US efforts to reestablish trade post Trump involves repealing/amending that enabling law that lets him do it via fiat. That feels like a pretty big first goodwill step to lead into tit for tat tariff repeals.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Plus the tariffs are old enough to put real hurt on people and can't be worked around like the beginning of the year.

    I also don't see foreign tariffs coming off post Trump without the US giving up permanent gains.

    Even if we go "sorry China, we elected a madman for a bit, can we go back to how things were?"

    I expect China will say "sure, but it will cost you."

    No one should ever trust the USA again.

    Especially when given the chance, the US populace didn't rebuke Trump in the manner necessary.

    Sure, a 9pt margin nationally was awesome, and great from a domestic position. But that still means 45% of voters are fine with the current situation, which is way too high for it not to seing back again at some point.

    I'm not saying that it's not fantastic that Democrats did what they did. But from a foreign perspective, they have to weigh whether this kind of shit could happen again. And almost half the country said "Yeah, maybe.".

    BandableForarOrcaLoisLaneGiggles_Funsworth
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Plus the tariffs are old enough to put real hurt on people and can't be worked around like the beginning of the year.

    I also don't see foreign tariffs coming off post Trump without the US giving up permanent gains.

    Even if we go "sorry China, we elected a madman for a bit, can we go back to how things were?"

    I expect China will say "sure, but it will cost you."

    No one should ever trust the USA again.

    Eh, China wants the Tariffs gone, they hurt them too because they want to sell us stuff. China is used to dealing with unpredictable foreign governments, and has plenty of markets for the things it wants to sell. The US is the biggest, and they desperately want back in, but they do have other options.

    Honestly, noone likes the tariffs other the trump himself, I mean like maybe Brazil would like us to keep being stupid? But none of our big trade partners would be sad about it.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Plus the tariffs are old enough to put real hurt on people and can't be worked around like the beginning of the year.

    I also don't see foreign tariffs coming off post Trump without the US giving up permanent gains.

    Even if we go "sorry China, we elected a madman for a bit, can we go back to how things were?"

    I expect China will say "sure, but it will cost you."

    No one should ever trust the USA again.

    Eh, China wants the Tariffs gone, they hurt them too because they want to sell us stuff. China is used to dealing with unpredictable foreign governments, and has plenty of markets for the things it wants to sell. The US is the biggest, and they desperately want back in, but they do have other options.

    Honestly, noone likes the tariffs other the trump himself, I mean like maybe Brazil would like us to keep being stupid? But none of our big trade partners would be sad about it.

    Trump and Peter Navarro, the braindead economist Trump picked as an advisor because Jarred found his book about sticking it to China on Amazon during the transition period.

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
    Fencingsaxsilence1186SmrtnikLoisLaneElldrenMartini_Philosopher
  • MeeqeMeeqe Lord of the pants most fancy Someplace amazingRegistered User regular
    Not being sad about it and not using it as an excuse to extract concessions are very different things.

    I like children. Provided they go home with their parents at the end of the day.
    BlackDragon480FencingsaxCantidesilence1186Martini_Philosopher
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Plus the tariffs are old enough to put real hurt on people and can't be worked around like the beginning of the year.

    I also don't see foreign tariffs coming off post Trump without the US giving up permanent gains.

    Even if we go "sorry China, we elected a madman for a bit, can we go back to how things were?"

    I expect China will say "sure, but it will cost you."

    No one should ever trust the USA again.

    Eh, China wants the Tariffs gone, they hurt them too because they want to sell us stuff. China is used to dealing with unpredictable foreign governments, and has plenty of markets for the things it wants to sell. The US is the biggest, and they desperately want back in, but they do have other options.

    Honestly, noone likes the tariffs other the trump himself, I mean like maybe Brazil would like us to keep being stupid? But none of our big trade partners would be sad about it.

    Trump and Peter Navarro, the braindead economist Trump picked as an advisor because Jarred found his book about sticking it to China on Amazon during the transition period.

    Ha, yes, I guess "Other idiots in Trumps cabinet who don't know how economics works" is the right answer.

    The thing is though that our trade relationship with China was only ever 'OK', and thats all China ever gives anyone. We didn't have a great relationship with all sorts of perks to go back to. We just had one which was 'OK'. China will happily give us that back, because its what it gives everyone. If you want the CHANGE that and get a better deal you need to get all China's trade partners together to form an anti China pact which will negotiate a better deal with China as a group to prevent China just not really caring about what you as a single country does.

    And when we did that it was called the TPP, and it WOULD have helped up on trade with China and the first thing Trump did was get rid of it.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
    FencingsaxmonikerMillCommander ZoomshrykeBlackDragon480MorganVElldrenVeagleMartini_Philosopher
Sign In or Register to comment.