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Like a centipede waiting for the other shoe to drop in [The Economy] thread

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    We'll eventually just hit a point where Congress refuses to cut a check for him to continue to do this shit. As much as I hate shitty puritan work culture, it probably works against Trump here and probably ensures that when Congress stops bank rolling his bullshit, farmers won't turn on congresscritters as much, when they don't get the free hand out.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Congress loves handing cash to large agribusinesses.

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  • SealSeal Registered User regular
    I assume he says that small farms will benefit because the opposite is true, especially given that "small farms" are a tiny fraction of actual food production.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Congress loves handing cash to large agribusinesses.

    Nobody with any presidential aspirations is going to come out against them

    L Ron Howard
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Congress loves handing cash to large agribusinesses.

    It's not like it costs them anything.

    monikerDoc
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    So far 44% of ag income this year will be government assistance. If there's any proposed increase then farmers are literally living more off my paycheck than their own.

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  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    So far 44% of ag income this year will be government assistance. If there's any proposed increase then farmers are literally living more off my paycheck than their own.

    But isn't that a small price to pay for making Trump feel like a big boy?

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    So far 44% of ag income this year will be government assistance. If there's any proposed increase then farmers are literally living more off my paycheck than their own.


    But they are tough independent rural people, not Democrats living of the government teat like you, city boy!

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    You mean "large corporations hiding behind cardboard standees of tough independent rural people". :p

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/the-federal-reserve-is-looking-into-developing-digital-currency-us-2019-11-1028705211
    US central bankers have explored the possibility of developing a digital currency that would be directly available to businesses and households, Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell confirmed to lawmakers this week.

    "While we are not currently developing a central bank digital currency, we have assessed and we continue to carefully analyze the costs and benefits of pursuing such an initiative in the U.S.," Powell wrote in a letter to lawmakers dated Tuesday.

    ...

    The letter was a response to questions raised by Republican Rep. French Hill of Arkansas and Democratic Rep. Bill Foster of Illinois, who in September said the central bank should consider a US-backed cryptocurrency to remain competitive.

    "We are concerned that the primacy of the U.S. Dollar could be in long-term jeopardy from wide adoption of digital fiat currencies," the lawmakers wrote in the initial letter to Powell, adding that "it may become increasingly imperative that the Federal Reserve take up the project of developing a U.S. dollar digital currency."

    Someone needs to smack those reps upside the head.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    A federally backed digital currency? Pretty sure it's called the US Dollar.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    A federally backed digital currency? Pretty sure it's called the US Dollar.

    You can't spend cash online without going through a third party, though. Whether that's a CC company or the pain in the ass method of a wire transfer. And if Visa and co decide they don't like your business you're kinda fucked.

    Doodmannmoniker
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    A federally backed digital currency? Pretty sure it's called the US Dollar.

    You can't spend cash online without going through a third party, though. Whether that's a CC company or the pain in the ass method of a wire transfer. And if Visa and co decide they don't like your business you're kinda fucked.

    Also, if it came with the equivalent of a Federal bank account (even at 0.0% interest) it would allow for a lot of interesting things monetary policy and tax wise. Just helicopter drop a couple Grand to everyone's account when you hit the zero lower bound, make the EITC monthly instead of a big annual lump sum, &c.

  • destroyah87destroyah87 Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    A federally backed digital currency? Pretty sure it's called the US Dollar.

    You can't spend cash online without going through a third party, though. Whether that's a CC company or the pain in the ass method of a wire transfer. And if Visa and co decide they don't like your business you're kinda fucked.

    Also, if it came with the equivalent of a Federal bank account (even at 0.0% interest) it would allow for a lot of interesting things monetary policy and tax wise. Just helicopter drop a couple Grand to everyone's account when you hit the zero lower bound, make the EITC monthly instead of a big annual lump sum, &c.

    Which honestly sounds like an excellent justification for letting the US Post Office provide banking services; such as checking, debit card, or even credit card accounts. But a very flimsy justification for developing yet-another cryptocurrency.

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50633500

    Add Argentina and Brazil to countries which we've added tariffs to.

    In a sad/amusing/weird way, we suddenly have a new lever for the next President to stimulate the economy if need be: drop tariffs -> cheaper goods.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    So I should have known the farm bailouts were a grift, but there was an editorial in the times today that highlighted farmers in like Washington State that are actually hurt by the tariffs aren't getting hardly any of the "bail out" while farmers in trump states not hit by the tariffs are getting all the money.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Show me an easy to use crypto currency. Most production blockchains are for goods parentage, and no one but regulators want true traceability.

  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    A federally backed digital currency? Pretty sure it's called the US Dollar.

    You can't spend cash online without going through a third party, though. Whether that's a CC company or the pain in the ass method of a wire transfer. And if Visa and co decide they don't like your business you're kinda fucked.

    Pretty sure he's referring to the fact that the vast majority of US Dollars never exist as actual bills these days

    DoodmannmysticjuicerMatevMoridin889painfulPleasanceMvrckCouscousFencingsaxkime
  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Washington Post is reporting that Trump is wanting 100% tariffs on like $2.5 Billion in French imports.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    https://apnews.com/0b0d6c24a6e0b0bb31abdbb78c589e4c
    LONDON (AP) — President Donald Trump appeared to downplay the chances for a deal to end the U.S.-China trade war before the end of the year.

    Speaking in London he is attending a NATO summit, Trump said Tuesday that the only limiting factor to reaching an agreement with China is whether he wants to make a deal.

    Asked about his previous goal of reaching an agreement by years’ end, Trump told reporters, ″I have no deadline, no.”

    “In some ways I like the idea of waiting until after the election,” Trump added. He has previously suggested that China wanted to wait until after the election to negotiate a deal.

    Tensions between the two nations flared anew last week after Trump signed legislation expressing U.S. support for pro-democracy demonstrators in Hong Kong.

    The U.S.-China trade talks face a Dec. 15 deadline for new U.S. tariffs to kick in on many Chinese-made items, including smartphones and laptops.

    Pressure is building on both sides to complete what Trump has called a limited “phase one” deal before the deadline, though Trump could end up postponing the tariffs, as he did in October, to allow more time for negotiations.
    Wait. Why!?

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://apnews.com/0b0d6c24a6e0b0bb31abdbb78c589e4c
    LONDON (AP) — President Donald Trump appeared to downplay the chances for a deal to end the U.S.-China trade war before the end of the year.

    Speaking in London he is attending a NATO summit, Trump said Tuesday that the only limiting factor to reaching an agreement with China is whether he wants to make a deal.

    Asked about his previous goal of reaching an agreement by years’ end, Trump told reporters, ″I have no deadline, no.”

    “In some ways I like the idea of waiting until after the election,” Trump added. He has previously suggested that China wanted to wait until after the election to negotiate a deal.

    Tensions between the two nations flared anew last week after Trump signed legislation expressing U.S. support for pro-democracy demonstrators in Hong Kong.

    The U.S.-China trade talks face a Dec. 15 deadline for new U.S. tariffs to kick in on many Chinese-made items, including smartphones and laptops.

    Pressure is building on both sides to complete what Trump has called a limited “phase one” deal before the deadline, though Trump could end up postponing the tariffs, as he did in October, to allow more time for negotiations.
    Wait. Why!?

    Because China told him to get fucked, and he thinks this makes him look strong.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    It's an excuse because he can't get a deal done.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    China probably sees this as an existential crisis in a way that Trump can not possibly relate to.

    If China concedes to the most obviously moronic leader of a global player, in a manner that satisfies said moron because it will let him crow about it endlessly, then they are utterly diminished as a global player and a target for anyone who leads the US after.

    My guess is their position hasn't budged since this whole thing started and amounts to giving Trump nothing and not playing along with a false victory narrative either.

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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    And he can dangle tariff reductions as easy campaign boosters when he's desperate

    Captain InertiaMoridin889
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Yeah, China's definitely waiting until he's reelected and not just looking forward to dealing with somebody sane who wants the entire thing to just go away.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    They are probably looking forward to it being closer to the election. If the US economy starts looking dicey and Trump's election prospects start going down, that lets them put the squeeze on him to cave and give them what they want.

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    I think this has more to do with exposing the lack of a real plan on the part of the Trump administration than anything else. My reasoning is every time they say a deal is close or that progress is being made on the negotiations, Chinese media reports that they have no idea what the US is talking about. I think China is genuinely confused on what Trump wants from them for actual progress to be made.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    I think this has more to do with exposing the lack of a real plan on the part of the Trump administration than anything else. My reasoning is every time they say a deal is close or that progress is being made on the negotiations, Chinese media reports that they have no idea what the US is talking about. I think China is genuinely confused on what Trump wants from them for actual progress to be made.

    In China's defense, Trump is also confused about what he wants from them.

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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    I think this has more to do with exposing the lack of a real plan on the part of the Trump administration than anything else. My reasoning is every time they say a deal is close or that progress is being made on the negotiations, Chinese media reports that they have no idea what the US is talking about. I think China is genuinely confused on what Trump wants from them for actual progress to be made.

    In China's defense, Trump is also confused about what he wants from them.

    He wants them as a boogeyman

    Captain InertiaMartini_Philosopher
  • VeagleVeagle Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    I think this has more to do with exposing the lack of a real plan on the part of the Trump administration than anything else. My reasoning is every time they say a deal is close or that progress is being made on the negotiations, Chinese media reports that they have no idea what the US is talking about. I think China is genuinely confused on what Trump wants from them for actual progress to be made.

    Yeah, none of this was ever thought out. We're what two years into this 'war', and nobody can explain why. Like I guess Trump was originally complaining about how our imports and exports didn't perfectly even out, so in his mind we were being screwed, and so here we are now.

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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Look at everything through the eyes of a racist and it makes sense.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    All of The Above, plus

  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Honestly, given the damage Trump has done. Not just to the US, but everyone else that has to deal with the aftermath. I could see an argument where the Chinese would rather hold out, with the hopes that it results in contributing to Trump's defeat. Sure they want a weakened US, but they also don't want to pay a massive price tag for that; especially, if it's a price that fucks them over long term. Trump is more a less a threat to them on two key fronts.

    First, there is the economic one, a diminished US on the global stage will actually do very little to remedy China's economic issues or resort in US companies be less desired. Neither one of those requires the US to be a super power. In fact, even Chinese consumers don't really trust their country's companies, nor is an economic recession going to change that. There is a whole fuckton of things that Trump can and has done that will and has cost economic issues. As has been mentioned, China does what to keep their economy rolling well enough to distract their people from a number of issues that will boil over if the economy tanks. The US is in a better spot to weather and recover form a recession than China. Ironically, a recession might result in the US's political scene shifting to a point where we're functional and kicking shitty conservatives to the curb because we'll have had two generations straight getting fucked by their policies.

    Second, Trump also threatens them on the climate change side of things. Not sure how much of Trump's actions against fighting climate change are rooted in him wanting to roll it back to spite Obama, stick it to the libs, dismantle it because it hurts his grift or because Putin wants it. At the end of the day, I suspect that while the gab between the US and China is smaller, the US is probably still in a better spot to engineer it's way out of the issue. China is closer, but that's likely to go back the first issue, where their economy tanks and all social discontent boils over.

    A weakening of the US under Trump is probably not worth it for the Chinese. No point in weakening a rival if you likely end up in a position where you aren't just worse off, but can even be head of that rival. The proposition gets worse to, when you consider some of the US's sway on the global stage was already weakening before the GOP was able to cause US foreign policy to be massively dysfunctional. The US more or less got to where it is now because most of our industrial capacity was in tip top shape following WWII, while everyone else was rebuilding and/or dealing with the dysfunction that is communist rule. It was pretty inevitable that people would rebuilt and get less dysfunctional government, thus the US was going to lose clout down the rode as a result of people catching back up.

  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Look, every dollar the US consumer spends on toys and shirts from china is a dollar they dont spend on US precision mining and construction equipment, financial services, raw soybeans and bulk corn, and unprocessed natural gas. These things are highly similar goods people. The last time I was at the store, I thought to myself, shall I buy 10000 jackets, or a 300 tonne mining separator for pit waste. And, in the end those shirts were just too cheap so I bought them instead. This is how a household budget works people!

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    I think this has more to do with exposing the lack of a real plan on the part of the Trump administration than anything else. My reasoning is every time they say a deal is close or that progress is being made on the negotiations, Chinese media reports that they have no idea what the US is talking about. I think China is genuinely confused on what Trump wants from them for actual progress to be made.

    Yeah, as always, Trump just says shit to try and appeal to whoever he is talking to at that exact moment. None of it really means anything and it doesn't proceed from any actual strategy.

    He says a deal is close because he thinks that plays well to the media and his base. And that's all it means.

    FencingsaxElldren
  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    I think this has more to do with exposing the lack of a real plan on the part of the Trump administration than anything else. My reasoning is every time they say a deal is close or that progress is being made on the negotiations, Chinese media reports that they have no idea what the US is talking about. I think China is genuinely confused on what Trump wants from them for actual progress to be made.

    Yeah, as always, Trump just says shit to try and appeal to whoever he is talking to at that exact moment. None of it really means anything and it doesn't proceed from any actual strategy.

    He says a deal is close because he thinks that plays well to the media and his base. And that's all it means.

    I'm assuming Wall Street is still falling for this trick and has a short term run or rally every time he pulls this shit.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    I think this has more to do with exposing the lack of a real plan on the part of the Trump administration than anything else. My reasoning is every time they say a deal is close or that progress is being made on the negotiations, Chinese media reports that they have no idea what the US is talking about. I think China is genuinely confused on what Trump wants from them for actual progress to be made.

    Yeah, as always, Trump just says shit to try and appeal to whoever he is talking to at that exact moment. None of it really means anything and it doesn't proceed from any actual strategy.

    He says a deal is close because he thinks that plays well to the media and his base. And that's all it means.

    I'm assuming Wall Street is still falling for this trick and has a short term run or rally every time he pulls this shit.

    Wall Street was unhappy about comments today, yeah.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    RedTide wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    I think this has more to do with exposing the lack of a real plan on the part of the Trump administration than anything else. My reasoning is every time they say a deal is close or that progress is being made on the negotiations, Chinese media reports that they have no idea what the US is talking about. I think China is genuinely confused on what Trump wants from them for actual progress to be made.

    Yeah, as always, Trump just says shit to try and appeal to whoever he is talking to at that exact moment. None of it really means anything and it doesn't proceed from any actual strategy.

    He says a deal is close because he thinks that plays well to the media and his base. And that's all it means.

    I'm assuming Wall Street is still falling for this trick and has a short term run or rally every time he pulls this shit.

    Wall Street was unhappy about comments today, yeah.

    Oh I thought it was because of the Peloton ad

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  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Amazon: shorturl.at/giJSV Steam: shorturl.at/ftCLSRegistered User regular
    Please, buy a genuine Trump™ Make America Great Again hat (product of China) to show your support for American manufacturing!

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  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    The Us dept of commerce with global energy institute an affiliate :rotate: with it's president Marty Durbin was in ABQ today siting how fracking is the future for NM saying if we don't continue it it's a loss of 100k+ jobs and over 86B loss over the next 5 years
    Mining is not a good indicator of a stable economy. Oil and gas futures this state relies on will only end in tears. I really feel they need to find different avenues of income for the future.

    KarozColanut
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