So the Forges are end-game activities. This is just the first time Bungie has released an expansion that is purely end-game content rather than some new base content that leads up to new end-game content.
Just new end-game would be fine, you could argue that was true of Curse and Warmind as well, but there doesn't even seem to be a new planet or area, no story missions or adventures, no Strikes (or at least none available at release). It's just weapon bounties, the Forges, and the Raid Lair. Probably the smallest content drop they've ever done that had an upfront price.
It's gonna be like Forsaken minus the campaign. New shit rolling out slowly over the season. New activities to do and yada yada yada.
Honestly the whole thing strikes me as the same kind of thing you get in a MMO content drop.
Every(?) MMO content drop that I've ever played has added enough new content that you can play right out of the gate to basically hold your hand to the next new piece of content.
I've never seen an MMO drop content that no one can play initially until they play the older content for a few more weeks.
WoW any time they had a raid locked for a couple weeks after a patch? To name one pretty obvious one.
Also, as a reminder, you don't have to be at the power level for an activity before you do that activity.
You can be well under! It's just more difficult, and is better if you're organized.
I have no idea how so many people are getting away with putting forth an argument that not being at the power level of content equates to the content being completely inaccessible.
Because it is demonstrably false. This page is just bad faith complaints left and right.
No one has to like it.
But base what you're saying on that foundation; not one that is an actual lie.
I've got that from two weak powerfuls and a prime. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Well, I mean, I do; it's just disingenuous.
Those patches all dropped with new zones full of stuff to do and new quest lines to get you going before the raid dropped. I've played WoW since 2006 and I can't think of a single time a raid was added but was too high iLvl to attempt and the only way to get better gear for it was to do already-existing content. But please, do go on about how we're all disingenuous liars :tell_me_more:
They didn't all drop with new zones full of stuff. Frequently you'd just get some new quests and shit, some new rep, a few revamped areas, etc. Along with the usual balance changes and all that. Sometimes just a small area added with some new dailies or something. Depended on the patch really. I think on balance they launched without new zones more then with.
And while I don't think any raid ever dropped too powerful to even attempt, most dropped at a level and difficulty that meant you weren't getting far. I mean, only being able to beat the first few bosses when a raid dropped was pretty normal for your average raid group. And I don't think anything dropping this week with BA is going to be impossible to even attempt.
They've moved towards a more MMO-patch like model and have made that pretty clear since they first announced the annual pass. And this seems fairly in line with that so far.
Only 10% of players have reached DC? That is astounding.
I have no idea how those achievement stats work but I wouldn't be surprised if it was <people who have gotten this achievement>/<people who own this game> without taking ownership of Forsaken 2 into account - so 10% of people inclusive of folks who played some of D2 Y1 and haven't even bought, much less played, Forsaken.
It would still be end game content if it started at 600! The vast majority of players are not 600.
[citation needed]
Theres probably stats out there on guardian.gg or destinystats or something, but I think a telling one is the trophy for killing Uldren is 12% and the people reaching the Dreaming City is 10%. I imagine being 600 is a lot lower but there's no trophy for that.
Most games have abysmal completion rates and DC was locked behind completing the main story, and then doing another quest line that involved some pretty obnoxious public event RNG.
Yeah, most people never finish games in the first place. And given the way Destiny is structured (as a single-player game followed by an MMO-like endgame) you wouldn't expect a huge percentage of the playerbase to be involved in the endgame.
The more relevant stat is how many people who have made it to the endgame are 600.
From PC clan chat anyway, basically everyone who was playing since Forsaken launched is at 600 or basically there. The people who joined when they dropped the game for free are lower but are firmly in the mid-600s it seems and gearing up pretty fast. Especially since we've been trying to run people through the raid and shattered throne and shit.
How many folks in here have actually attempted the Volundr Forge?
Because I did, and it's pretty fun. Given sufficient effort and practice, felt doable at LL600. Myself, @squall99x and @Koz made it to the second wave with relative ease, but then we found ourselves a bit overwhelmed. The timer felt like the most significant hurdle to success, though enemies clearly hit hard.
Hopefully we'll give it another go later and actually apply some strategic thought to the activity.
So the Forges are end-game activities. This is just the first time Bungie has released an expansion that is purely end-game content rather than some new base content that leads up to new end-game content.
Just new end-game would be fine, you could argue that was true of Curse and Warmind as well, but there doesn't even seem to be a new planet or area, no story missions or adventures, no Strikes (or at least none available at release). It's just weapon bounties, the Forges, and the Raid Lair. Probably the smallest content drop they've ever done that had an upfront price.
It's gonna be like Forsaken minus the campaign. New shit rolling out slowly over the season. New activities to do and yada yada yada.
Honestly the whole thing strikes me as the same kind of thing you get in a MMO content drop.
Every(?) MMO content drop that I've ever played has added enough new content that you can play right out of the gate to basically hold your hand to the next new piece of content.
I've never seen an MMO drop content that no one can play initially until they play the older content for a few more weeks.
WoW any time they had a raid locked for a couple weeks after a patch? To name one pretty obvious one.
Also, as a reminder, you don't have to be at the power level for an activity before you do that activity.
You can be well under! It's just more difficult, and is better if you're organized.
I have no idea how so many people are getting away with putting forth an argument that not being at the power level of content equates to the content being completely inaccessible.
Because it is demonstrably false. This page is just bad faith complaints left and right.
No one has to like it.
But base what you're saying on that foundation; not one that is an actual lie.
I've got that from two weak powerfuls and a prime. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Well, I mean, I do; it's just disingenuous.
Those patches all dropped with new zones full of stuff to do and new quest lines to get you going before the raid dropped. I've played WoW since 2006 and I can't think of a single time a raid was added but was too high iLvl to attempt and the only way to get better gear for it was to do already-existing content. But please, do go on about how we're all disingenuous liars :tell_me_more:
They didn't all drop with new zones full of stuff. Frequently you'd just get some new quests and shit, some new rep, a few revamped areas, etc. Along with the usual balance changes and all that. Sometimes just a small area added with some new dailies or something. Depended on the patch really. I think on balance they launched without new zones more then with.
And while I don't think any raid ever dropped too powerful to even attempt, most dropped at a level and difficulty that meant you weren't getting far. I mean, only being able to beat the first few bosses when a raid dropped was pretty normal for your average raid group. And I don't think anything dropping this week with BA is going to be impossible to even attempt.
They've moved towards a more MMO-patch like model and have made that pretty clear since they first announced the annual pass. And this seems fairly in line with that so far.
Right, but any with raids in them absolutely included a bunch of new content, which is the example that TDWH brought up.
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
How many folks in here have actually attempted the Volundr Forge?
Because I did, and it's pretty fun. Given sufficient effort and practice, felt doable at LL600. Myself, @squall99x and @Koz made it to the second wave with relative ease, but then we found ourselves a bit overwhelmed. The timer felt like the most significant hurdle to success, though enemies clearly hit hard.
Hopefully we'll give it another go later and actually apply some strategic thought to the activity.
I went in at 600 and we got rocked in the second phase, which would be fine except that a successful Wave 3 completion of that gates off all of the content in Black Armory.
It's a 3-man fireteam limit for the forge, correct?
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
It's a 3-man fireteam limit for the forge, correct?
Correct. There's matchmaking available if you jump in alone, but as it stands with current power you really need a team that's communicating. I tried a couple of matchmaking events and without concentrated DPS we didn't even make it past the first wave.
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
I really hate getting blown away by shotguns, but last night a warlock popped sunblade while looking the other direction right in front of me, and I was able to pop him during the animation, and it felt so good/dirty.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
I mean you can't buy Black Armory, right? You can buy a season pass. Do you want to play Destiny for the next 9ish months, with content dripped out over those months but without big swells except for when they release raids you'll be too low power to participate in? If so it's worth the money. If you've got other better games to play, maybe just do that.
+1
Sirialisof the Halite Throne.Registered Userregular
edited December 2018
Also just in case someone beats the first wave of Forge and celebrate too early...
There are at least 2 waves of the Forge, first wave is 615 and the second wave is 625.
I mean you can't buy Black Armory, right? You can buy a season pass. Do you want to play Destiny for the next 9ish months, with content dripped out over those months but without big swells except for when they release raids you'll be too low power to participate in? If so it's worth the money. If you've got other better games to play, maybe just do that.
But at this point unless you are 600 or close to it there's no reason to not wait. If he literally cannot engage with any of the content in the pass yet...
I broke down and bought the expansion pass this morning since it was my day off, expecting to atleast have a good time doing some new stuff
Except yeah... That's impossible. I did a bunch of EP to grind out the first half of the quest, hit a wall at the actual Forge on EDZ.
Joined up with Siri and Tini and we cleared the first wave but, yeah second wave is a hard gear check. You just die to all the enemies that spawn much faster than you can kill them.
I did a few powerful rewards which netted me... 601 LL. I got two powerful drops in my primary slot already... Not really seeing how I'm gonna level at this rate. I can see maybe getting the second wave done at 605? But then who knows what level you can feasibly finish the whole event.
Overall this is feeling like I got burned. I used a 20 dollar credit my brother gave me on this but even at 15 bucks out of pocket I'm feeling ripped off. Not sure what they were thinking but I really wish I had waited before buying the pass.
It's really impressive they seemed to deliver even slimmer pickings than Curse of Osiris
Custom SpecialI know I am, I'm sure I am,I'm Sounders 'til I die!Registered Userregular
Yeah, I'm kind of bummed with Black Armory. I haven't quite made it to 600 yet (590+), so basically all I've paid for so far is....playing more Forsaken.
Everyone can argue about whether BA is gated reasonably or not, but it's kind of ridiculous that there are four forges, but they didn't scale them up through the expansion? Like...how is this first forge not like 605-615? And then each forge goes up another 5-10 LL in difficulty as you gear up.
I don’t even have bad luck. And I went prepared. Multiple saved powerful bounties ready to turn in, a pinnacle weapon to claim, I had a world exotic drop, I got my prime engram to drop pretty quick, only one duplicate, only one slot that didn’t get an upgrade.
And barely any progesss to make me ready for new content.
I really hate getting blown away by shotguns, but last night a warlock popped sunblade while looking the other direction right in front of me, and I was able to pop him during the animation, and it felt so good/dirty.
I feel bad everytime I shotgun a Hunter to death right as they pop Golden Gun.
There needed to be some part of the new activities involved with getting your light level up for the other new activities / raid. One powerful engram from the mission ain't gonna cut it
I mean you can't buy Black Armory, right? You can buy a season pass. Do you want to play Destiny for the next 9ish months, with content dripped out over those months but without big swells except for when they release raids you'll be too low power to participate in? If so it's worth the money. If you've got other better games to play, maybe just do that.
But at this point unless you are 600 or close to it there's no reason to not wait. If he literally cannot engage with any of the content in the pass yet...
The basic question to ask yourself is "Am I gonna be playing Destiny 2 over the next year and do I want more content then I have right now?". That's what you are buying.
If you don't know that yet, you can afford to wait but even if you are underleved still, if you think you are gonna keep playing, go ahead imo.
shryke on
+1
Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
My cup runneth over with yellow hats. I have a hat for every occasion.
I also got the cheevo last night for getting a lot of vanilla D2 yellows. I see there is one for current-expansion yellows, but I don't think I've gotten a single one yet.
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
The basic question to ask yourself is "Am I gonna be playing Destiny 2 over the next year and do I want more content then I have right now?". That's what you are buying.
Why would you want to pay full price now for nothing??
I don’t even have bad luck. And I went prepared. Multiple saved powerful bounties ready to turn in, a pinnacle weapon to claim, I had a world exotic drop, I got my prime engram to drop pretty quick, only one duplicate, only one slot that didn’t get an upgrade.
And barely any progesss to make me ready for new content.
Yeah, it seems really strange that nothing was shifted to help push us up towards the new max light level. It's gonna be a bitch of a grind if we only have access to +1 upgrades and the small handful of uncapped weekly milestones.
0
Sirialisof the Halite Throne.Registered Userregular
edited December 2018
So i found out something new, my alts cant do heroic adventures on mercury and mars because I only did the prerequisites on one character.
You can actually join people doing the Heroic adventures and get that powerful drop, even if you cant access them by yourself.
Also
All the orange bars from Escalation Protocol counts as “Powerful Enemies”.
Sirialis on
0
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
540 is definitely to low for any Black Armory content. You are at a good level to start getting into Last Wish
Last Wish is a raid I will probably never see. I don’t really have a group of people to do it with and even if I did I am not sure I want to engage in that kind of complexity when I play the game.
So if that’s the only path to 600 then BA is probably never worth buying
540 is definitely to low for any Black Armory content. You are at a good level to start getting into Last Wish
Last Wish is a raid I will probably never see. I don’t really have a group of people to do it with and even if I did I am not sure I want to engage in that kind of complexity when I play the game.
So if that’s the only path to 600 then BA is probably never worth buying
Posts
the real crazy one to make you think about how much of an outlier we all are is <2% have completed Last Wish
https://medium.com/@alascii
They didn't all drop with new zones full of stuff. Frequently you'd just get some new quests and shit, some new rep, a few revamped areas, etc. Along with the usual balance changes and all that. Sometimes just a small area added with some new dailies or something. Depended on the patch really. I think on balance they launched without new zones more then with.
And while I don't think any raid ever dropped too powerful to even attempt, most dropped at a level and difficulty that meant you weren't getting far. I mean, only being able to beat the first few bosses when a raid dropped was pretty normal for your average raid group. And I don't think anything dropping this week with BA is going to be impossible to even attempt.
They've moved towards a more MMO-patch like model and have made that pretty clear since they first announced the annual pass. And this seems fairly in line with that so far.
I have no idea how those achievement stats work but I wouldn't be surprised if it was <people who have gotten this achievement>/<people who own this game> without taking ownership of Forsaken 2 into account - so 10% of people inclusive of folks who played some of D2 Y1 and haven't even bought, much less played, Forsaken.
Yeah, most people never finish games in the first place. And given the way Destiny is structured (as a single-player game followed by an MMO-like endgame) you wouldn't expect a huge percentage of the playerbase to be involved in the endgame.
The more relevant stat is how many people who have made it to the endgame are 600.
From PC clan chat anyway, basically everyone who was playing since Forsaken launched is at 600 or basically there. The people who joined when they dropped the game for free are lower but are firmly in the mid-600s it seems and gearing up pretty fast. Especially since we've been trying to run people through the raid and shattered throne and shit.
Because I did, and it's pretty fun. Given sufficient effort and practice, felt doable at LL600. Myself, @squall99x and @Koz made it to the second wave with relative ease, but then we found ourselves a bit overwhelmed. The timer felt like the most significant hurdle to success, though enemies clearly hit hard.
Hopefully we'll give it another go later and actually apply some strategic thought to the activity.
Right, but any with raids in them absolutely included a bunch of new content, which is the example that TDWH brought up.
I went in at 600 and we got rocked in the second phase, which would be fine except that a successful Wave 3 completion of that gates off all of the content in Black Armory.
Correct. There's matchmaking available if you jump in alone, but as it stands with current power you really need a team that's communicating. I tried a couple of matchmaking events and without concentrated DPS we didn't even make it past the first wave.
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The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
PSN: Threeve703
Oh man, here we go
XBL: Sans Gravitas, Steam, Destiny, Twitch
Destiny Raid Groups: Team NATBurn, Team Fourth Meal (Disbanded)
I think you're far enough away from being able to engage in whatever it offers that you can hold off until there's more and better information.
Also: Christmas/post-Christmas sales.
If you buy black armory your house will be eaten by termites. I am not exaggerating, it’s that bad.
https://medium.com/@alascii
Like I don't know if I'll like the content yet really, but there's no reason not to wait to til 600 and see still interested.
There are at least 2 waves of the Forge, first wave is 615 and the second wave is 625.
You get nothing from beating wave 1.
But at this point unless you are 600 or close to it there's no reason to not wait. If he literally cannot engage with any of the content in the pass yet...
Except yeah... That's impossible. I did a bunch of EP to grind out the first half of the quest, hit a wall at the actual Forge on EDZ.
Joined up with Siri and Tini and we cleared the first wave but, yeah second wave is a hard gear check. You just die to all the enemies that spawn much faster than you can kill them.
I did a few powerful rewards which netted me... 601 LL. I got two powerful drops in my primary slot already... Not really seeing how I'm gonna level at this rate. I can see maybe getting the second wave done at 605? But then who knows what level you can feasibly finish the whole event.
Overall this is feeling like I got burned. I used a 20 dollar credit my brother gave me on this but even at 15 bucks out of pocket I'm feeling ripped off. Not sure what they were thinking but I really wish I had waited before buying the pass.
It's really impressive they seemed to deliver even slimmer pickings than Curse of Osiris
PS - Local_H_Jay
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And Twitch
Everyone can argue about whether BA is gated reasonably or not, but it's kind of ridiculous that there are four forges, but they didn't scale them up through the expansion? Like...how is this first forge not like 605-615? And then each forge goes up another 5-10 LL in difficulty as you gear up.
And barely any progesss to make me ready for new content.
They directly said this was NOT like the smaller expansions, it would be smaller even than that, and that it was for end game players
But not really being able to engage with the only real activity added without grinding is 🙃
Despite low expectations because of their caveats... I'm still disappointed
holy shit
But why not have a low level forge atleast with some basic rewards
Like the other events in the same vein, Blind Well was a bitch at lower levels but it had tiers
Bungie knows better
PS - Local_H_Jay
Sub me on Youtube
And Twitch
I feel bad everytime I shotgun a Hunter to death right as they pop Golden Gun.
There needed to be some part of the new activities involved with getting your light level up for the other new activities / raid. One powerful engram from the mission ain't gonna cut it
I’m about 540, still too far? Sounds like it’s only 600+ so I can wait. Also you’re right, holidays.
PSN: Threeve703
The basic question to ask yourself is "Am I gonna be playing Destiny 2 over the next year and do I want more content then I have right now?". That's what you are buying.
If you don't know that yet, you can afford to wait but even if you are underleved still, if you think you are gonna keep playing, go ahead imo.
I also got the cheevo last night for getting a lot of vanilla D2 yellows. I see there is one for current-expansion yellows, but I don't think I've gotten a single one yet.
Why would you want to pay full price now for nothing??
It has literally zero content for sub-600 people so no reason to get it until you're around that level and know if you want to keep playing or not.
Yeah, it seems really strange that nothing was shifted to help push us up towards the new max light level. It's gonna be a bitch of a grind if we only have access to +1 upgrades and the small handful of uncapped weekly milestones.
You can actually join people doing the Heroic adventures and get that powerful drop, even if you cant access them by yourself.
Also
All the orange bars from Escalation Protocol counts as “Powerful Enemies”.
Last Wish is a raid I will probably never see. I don’t really have a group of people to do it with and even if I did I am not sure I want to engage in that kind of complexity when I play the game.
So if that’s the only path to 600 then BA is probably never worth buying
PSN: Threeve703
Tho I assume there will be some big light boosts coming with the dawning
Did reddit find out what the post 600 powerful powerful rewards are yet?
https://medium.com/@alascii
What platform are you on?