While I'm glad that they adjusted the power down to make the thing doable at 600, that message announcing it was super passive-aggressive about it.
Some players at 600 Power have been unable to dive in and beat the final boss without grinding for new Power first.
I can't read that without hearing, "Some whiny players who are only at 600 (because they didn't bother to bank enough reward bounties last week) have been unable to dive in and beat the final boss (which is the final boss...come on, guys, work with us here, you're supposed to bash your heads against it for a while! remember Khalli?!) without grinding for new Power first (and is that really asking so much? really?)."
I can't see why they'd bother. People went in way underleveled for Last Wish and managed it. Not many managed it but that's not necessarily a problem, depending on what you want.
People did not manage it. Literally zero console players received a World's First jacket. If they do this raid in the same way, no one at all might do it.
I can't see why they'd bother. People went in way underleveled for Last Wish and managed it. Not many managed it but that's not necessarily a problem, depending on what you want.
People did not manage it. Literally zero console players received a World's First jacket. If they do this raid in the same way, no one at all might do it.
That's why I said "not many managed it". But people totally cleared it. And I don't think there's much if any indication Bungie is all that upset with how it turned out overall. Unless I've missed a comment somewhere. And they didn't change it before they announced the level range last week, so I don't know why it would change between then and now.
I can't see why they'd bother. People went in way underleveled for Last Wish and managed it. Not many managed it but that's not necessarily a problem, depending on what you want.
People did not manage it. Literally zero console players received a World's First jacket. If they do this raid in the same way, no one at all might do it.
That's why I said "not many managed it". But people totally cleared it. And I don't think there's much if any indication Bungie is all that upset with how it turned out overall.
I think it's unfair to console players (where this series even came from) that even their hardcoreiest poop socks couldn't do it. If Bungie is okay with that outcome, they're idiots.
I doubt they'll adjust the PL of the raid. Bungie have said they were satisfied with how Last Wish went and they aren't even bothering to offer a 'first day clear' emblem for Scourge of the Past, though if people are already in the 630's and this is significantly shorter than Last Wish then I doubt the streamers will have any difficulty clearing it in a day.
it’s good to see after making this exact same mistake with escalation protocol and having to tune it down they learned their lesson and made the exact same mistake again and had to tune it down again
Eh, I wouldn't really call it the same mistake. It's a totally different mistake.
EP was a very-endgame activity they overtuned upward because they didn't want it to be too easy and ended up making it impossible without cheesing it. (and then everyone just cheese it anyway, but still)
How We’re Making This Change
Normally changing enemy Power levels requires a patch, but during development, we created unique server flags which can flip between two sets of Power levels for all Escalation Protocol enemies. These were created in the wake of the community summit, when we decided to make the activity even more difficult. The flags don’t require any download from you to flip, which is how we can enact this change so quickly.
Last time it appears they were pressured into it by the community reps, and had enough reservations about it to have a fall back plan.
This new fix sounds like exactly the same thing, just flipping the server flags between two states. It’s probably why this update says “we full acknowledge this is a small move, but it’s one we can make today”.
Main difference this time is a lack of community summit. Maybe there are two internal factions with ideas about content difficulty (just like here), and the “it should be slightly easier” seems to have won out in the end.
Different reason for it happening this time maybe, but it does seem to be the same “mistake” as the last time to me
It’s clear that Bungie has decided that content is more valuable as a carrot off in the distance to keep people perpetually engaged, rather than something that people actively and regularly engage in.
The tiny percentage of last wish clears as compared to other raids and the fact that they’ve opted to do it again make me think this is the case
and given everything we know about the psychology of this sort of game they're probably right
it’s good to see after making this exact same mistake with escalation protocol and having to tune it down they learned their lesson and made the exact same mistake again and had to tune it down again
Eh, I wouldn't really call it the same mistake. It's a totally different mistake.
EP was a very-endgame activity they overtuned upward because they didn't want it to be too easy and ended up making it impossible without cheesing it. (and then everyone just cheese it anyway, but still)
How We’re Making This Change
Normally changing enemy Power levels requires a patch, but during development, we created unique server flags which can flip between two sets of Power levels for all Escalation Protocol enemies. These were created in the wake of the community summit, when we decided to make the activity even more difficult. The flags don’t require any download from you to flip, which is how we can enact this change so quickly.
Last time it appears they were pressured into it by the community reps, and had enough reservations about it to have a fall back plan.
This new fix sounds like exactly the same thing, just flipping the server flags between two states. It’s probably why this update says “we full acknowledge this is a small move, but it’s one we can make today”.
Main difference this time is a lack of community summit. Maybe there are two internal factions with ideas about content difficulty (just like here), and the “it should be slightly easier” seems to have won out in the end.
Different reason for it happening this time maybe, but it does seem to be the same “mistake” as the last time to me
There's a difference between using the same technique to do something and the mistakes and the reasons for them being the same. I'm not talking about the first. The mistake is not in the code, it's in the design.
The mistake is the designers pricing everyone out of the market in both cases, but being aware enough about potential blowback to have a course correction ready.
Last time the made it too hard because the community summit pushed them to, this time they made it too hard for because some portion of the team must have thought it would be fine for one reason or another.
Both times they were wrong, and were aware enough they could be, to be ready for it. Hence calling it the same mistake. It doesn’t matter what the reasons are in either case, the outcome was/is the same.
Assuming they used the same fix just lets us assume they are able to have some foresight about the difficultly curve. It’s possible they’ve had this ready to roll for other areas (like blind well, or shattered throne), but haven’t had need to deploy them
On PS4, I’ve always crouched walked from the entry way all the way up the left, but not keeping super close to the wall, and pretty much always find a group of 3-4 halfway through a tier III. Just a holdover from the slow walks up the stairs from Archon’s Forge
The mistake is the designers pricing everyone out of the market in both cases, but being aware enough about potential blowback to have a course correction ready.
Last time the made it too hard because the community summit pushed them to, this time they made it too hard for because some portion of the team must have thought it would be fine for one reason or another.
Both times they were wrong, and were aware enough they could be, to be ready for it. Hence calling it the same mistake. It doesn’t matter what the reasons are in either case, the outcome was/is the same.
Assuming they used the same fix just lets us assume they are able to have some foresight about the difficultly curve. It’s possible they’ve had this ready to roll for other areas (like blind well, or shattered throne), but haven’t had need to deploy them
It's not even clear they used the same method to fix it. They may have just implemented these activities differently in light of issues like EP. The fact that it's completely instanced away from the world probably helps a lot too. All of that is irrelevant to the point though.
I'm saying it's a different mistake because it's not the same design idea behind it. One is making a top-level activity too hard. The other is making an activity that clearly people should be doing as they start this season too hard to engage in. The forges, or at least this forge, are not meant to be at that level and aren't set up for it. This one caps out at, what, 630? That's well below the cap. It's not too hard to do, it's too hard for people to get into it quickly. It's more like an issue of accessibility rather then balance.
Custom SpecialI know I am, I'm sure I am,I'm Sounders 'til I die!Registered Userregular
I'm at 596, and was able to make it half way through wave 2 on Forge with two low 600 blueberries, not too bad. Would love to get a fireteam together to get through that first clear soon.
I also got matched into multiple matches that were on the mission complete countdown, so that's a fun waste of time.
Bungie is on a roll with the amusing bugs and workarounds.
"The game will probably crash during this fight, so...try to win really quickly."
"We're disabling this strike because, for some reason, the boss is fucking enormous."
"There's a bug...try walking slowly up this hallway."
Also I feel like so much of the complaints we've seen already and will see more of when the raid drops could have been avoided if they'd just raised the light level cap last week when they started Season 5 and thus given us a week to start leveling in anticipation of new content. It would have done a good job of smoothing the transition without making it feel like you are making people grind the same shit they've already been grinding.
I ran through Last Wish and got a whopping +0.2 total across all my drops since the game decided I wanted three energy weapons and an armor piece, both already my highest slots. My second energy weapon drop was somehow lower power than my first.
Then I used the seven keys I've been saving up and got drops in nearly every slot consecutively and jumped up +8. RNG!
+2
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Forever Zefirocloaked in the midnight glory of an event horizonRegistered Userregular
Glad they dropped the Forge level some. That was just enough that my friends and I were able to clear it a few times. I got the sparrow I think, Anti-Paladin. Didn’t get the emblem though, maybe it’s a random drop?
XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
Yeah, I've seen that. It's things like the region chests. Pop open two of those and it's done. If you've already opened them I don't know what else counts.
The drop of 5 points on the Forge was a good move. That, coupled with my own gaining two points has moved the Forge from being completely out of the question to challenging but possible week 1. A vast improvement on my motivation to actually do anything and means that the content from the update isn't completely out of reach from the beginning.
Tri-Optimum reminds you that there are only one-hundred-sixty-three shopping days until Christmas. Just 1 extra work cycle twice a week will give you the spending money you need to make this holiday a very special one.
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
edited December 2018
Put up a session on the 100 for the forge tomorrow morning PS4 side if people are interested
Man, playing a whole night without a single Prime engram feels pretty bad, particularly when they are the most valuable drops. Also my Blind Well bounty didn't seem to give me anything? Hrm.
But at least I got a Heart of Inmost Light.
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Fondor_YardsElite Four Member: HydraRegistered Userregular
You do remember that the current tower ISN'T guardian HQ right? Guardian hq is a pile of rubble so they just started squatting in whatever area had the room for them.
I was under the impression that the entire Tower was Guardian territory. The rest of The Last City is for the peasants non-Guardians but the Tower is all Light wights and their helpers/mechanics/hangers-on. I guess the 'Tower' we go to might not be The Tower but it's awfully damn tall to be anything else... We're just hanging out in some part of said Tower that was normally used by the filthy rabble non-Guardians.
The tower probably was/is, but were we are currently is just another section of the wall which I assume is mostly staffed/run by regular folks. You can see the actual tower from the starting open area with Shaxx/Banshee/other less cool people, it's the huge thing looking in the direction of the hanger.
Secrets, lies, and tragedy. The trifecta.
3DS Code: 5043-2172-1361
Xbone Tag: Salal al Din
I can't remember exactly where it is, but there's a ghost scan in the tower somewhere where ghost basically says that "the tower has changed a lot, this is where Banshee used to be set up." I think it was over in the Bazaar area near the noodle shop...
I can't remember exactly where it is, but there's a ghost scan in the tower somewhere where ghost basically says that "the tower has changed a lot, this is where Banshee used to be set up." I think it was over in the Bazaar area near the noodle shop...
You're thinking of where ghost talks about Eva Levante was previously set up.
There are a couple bits about Banshee around though that clue into how Exo resets work.
Almost got the Forge done with a 605, 602, and a 603 last night. Had the Boss at 20% when Psions decided to be the best snipers ever and drop us behind the rock. Ah well, one day of grinding should solve it.
The only annoying part was that if one of us had been a Warlock, it would have been easy.
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Because I fell behind in Forsaken, I can't even play any of BA. It's mine own fault for refusing to try stuff I'd rather not get involved in, but all the same that really kind of stinks. But if I didn't feel up to grinding max light in forsaken, I definitely don't want to grind it now just to access BA and then grind to the end of BA. Has the base increased with the max light level increase? I didn't notice much last night, but tbh i was a bit angry and barely stayed after finding the first part of the BA quest immune to my damage.
Edit: I just mean to say that I know BA is not an expansion, but other new content eased lower power level guardians into the new grind better. I at least had fun playing Forsaken twice until the power level grind really begins in the 505s and you're forced to chase weeklies just to unlock (eventually) the other PVE content like DC.
Papagander on
“There are no happy endings, because nothing ends.” ... also, "Ah, turn blue!"
XBOne | LyrKing
Man, playing a whole night without a single Prime engram feels pretty bad, particularly when they are the most valuable drops. Also my Blind Well bounty didn't seem to give me anything? Hrm.
But at least I got a Heart of Inmost Light.
If it makes you feel better, @metaghost and @squall99x have gotten like 37 between the two of them.
No idea why that would make you feel better, but...
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Custom SpecialI know I am, I'm sure I am,I'm Sounders 'til I die!Registered Userregular
I completed the ascendant challenge which got me 3 powerful drops (AC, Petra weekly...something else?).
Naturally, I get a 603 hat, which was already my best armor slot, and double 603 boots making one of them a complete waste. Huzzah RNG!
Posts
5 is probably not enough to make the forge doable for many without grinding this week but likely makes it more likely if you do
I still managed to fail it with a group 615 players, before we got a clear. Glad they brought it down a bit.
Don’t answer that, I know the answer.
https://medium.com/@alascii
No, because that's the main clearinghouse for discussion about the game and it's both reddit and annoying a lot of the time.
Sometimes really funny though.
Playing it alone is not very fun!
Literally my first game, no idea what I was doing, and I'm pretty sure I was still the 2nd best player on my team??
Ergo, who on Xbox side actually wants to group for Gambit to get some games for the pinnacle auto rifle?
I can't read that without hearing, "Some whiny players who are only at 600 (because they didn't bother to bank enough reward bounties last week) have been unable to dive in and beat the final boss (which is the final boss...come on, guys, work with us here, you're supposed to bash your heads against it for a while! remember Khalli?!) without grinding for new Power first (and is that really asking so much? really?)."
People did not manage it. Literally zero console players received a World's First jacket. If they do this raid in the same way, no one at all might do it.
That's why I said "not many managed it". But people totally cleared it. And I don't think there's much if any indication Bungie is all that upset with how it turned out overall. Unless I've missed a comment somewhere. And they didn't change it before they announced the level range last week, so I don't know why it would change between then and now.
I think it's unfair to console players (where this series even came from) that even their hardcoreiest poop socks couldn't do it. If Bungie is okay with that outcome, they're idiots.
Last time it appears they were pressured into it by the community reps, and had enough reservations about it to have a fall back plan.
This new fix sounds like exactly the same thing, just flipping the server flags between two states. It’s probably why this update says “we full acknowledge this is a small move, but it’s one we can make today”.
Main difference this time is a lack of community summit. Maybe there are two internal factions with ideas about content difficulty (just like here), and the “it should be slightly easier” seems to have won out in the end.
Different reason for it happening this time maybe, but it does seem to be the same “mistake” as the last time to me
The tiny percentage of last wish clears as compared to other raids and the fact that they’ve opted to do it again make me think this is the case
and given everything we know about the psychology of this sort of game they're probably right
https://medium.com/@alascii
There's a difference between using the same technique to do something and the mistakes and the reasons for them being the same. I'm not talking about the first. The mistake is not in the code, it's in the design.
The mistake is the designers pricing everyone out of the market in both cases, but being aware enough about potential blowback to have a course correction ready.
Last time the made it too hard because the community summit pushed them to, this time they made it too hard for because some portion of the team must have thought it would be fine for one reason or another.
Both times they were wrong, and were aware enough they could be, to be ready for it. Hence calling it the same mistake. It doesn’t matter what the reasons are in either case, the outcome was/is the same.
Assuming they used the same fix just lets us assume they are able to have some foresight about the difficultly curve. It’s possible they’ve had this ready to roll for other areas (like blind well, or shattered throne), but haven’t had need to deploy them
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
XBL: Sans Gravitas, Steam, Destiny, Twitch
Destiny Raid Groups: Team NATBurn, Team Fourth Meal (Disbanded)
Weird, I wonder why the right side specifically.
On PS4, I’ve always crouched walked from the entry way all the way up the left, but not keeping super close to the wall, and pretty much always find a group of 3-4 halfway through a tier III. Just a holdover from the slow walks up the stairs from Archon’s Forge
It's not even clear they used the same method to fix it. They may have just implemented these activities differently in light of issues like EP. The fact that it's completely instanced away from the world probably helps a lot too. All of that is irrelevant to the point though.
I'm saying it's a different mistake because it's not the same design idea behind it. One is making a top-level activity too hard. The other is making an activity that clearly people should be doing as they start this season too hard to engage in. The forges, or at least this forge, are not meant to be at that level and aren't set up for it. This one caps out at, what, 630? That's well below the cap. It's not too hard to do, it's too hard for people to get into it quickly. It's more like an issue of accessibility rather then balance.
Errors in systems this big can be hilarious.
I also got matched into multiple matches that were on the mission complete countdown, so that's a fun waste of time.
"The game will probably crash during this fight, so...try to win really quickly."
"We're disabling this strike because, for some reason, the boss is fucking enormous."
"There's a bug...try walking slowly up this hallway."
Then I used the seven keys I've been saving up and got drops in nearly every slot consecutively and jumped up +8. RNG!
XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
The drop of 5 points on the Forge was a good move. That, coupled with my own gaining two points has moved the Forge from being completely out of the question to challenging but possible week 1. A vast improvement on my motivation to actually do anything and means that the content from the update isn't completely out of reach from the beginning.
https://www.the100.io/gaming_sessions/1255784
"...only mights and maybes."
It's one of the ones in the pool.
Things that count:
- region chests
- hidden ascendant chests
- corsair badges
- cat statues
- lore collectables (at least, I think they count)
Very rude.
But at least I got a Heart of Inmost Light.
The tower probably was/is, but were we are currently is just another section of the wall which I assume is mostly staffed/run by regular folks. You can see the actual tower from the starting open area with Shaxx/Banshee/other less cool people, it's the huge thing looking in the direction of the hanger.
3DS Code: 5043-2172-1361
Xbone Tag: Salal al Din
You're thinking of where ghost talks about Eva Levante was previously set up.
There are a couple bits about Banshee around though that clue into how Exo resets work.
The only annoying part was that if one of us had been a Warlock, it would have been easy.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Edit: I just mean to say that I know BA is not an expansion, but other new content eased lower power level guardians into the new grind better. I at least had fun playing Forsaken twice until the power level grind really begins in the 505s and you're forced to chase weeklies just to unlock (eventually) the other PVE content like DC.
XBOne | LyrKing
Definitely not.
I've won the game. Never playing again. Thanks scrubs for carrying me through that raid!
If it makes you feel better, @metaghost and @squall99x have gotten like 37 between the two of them.
No idea why that would make you feel better, but...
Naturally, I get a 603 hat, which was already my best armor slot, and double 603 boots making one of them a complete waste. Huzzah RNG!