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Posts

  • Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    I'm old as hell too but I enjoy Smash. I didn't play the first since I went Sony that generation but I've played them all since then

    For me I like it because it's a super approachable fighting game that anyone can pick up and enjoy. The lack of memorizing movesets makes it fun even if someone has no clue what they are doing. Nostalgia is a factor, sure, but more that I feel that way towards the characters, not the actual game of Smash itself.

  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. Registered User regular
    imo learning what all your hold/tilt/directionals/etc moves are for smash is basically the same as learning movelists for a SF style game

    it may seem more approachable than "learning a hadouken motion" but your characters in smash are basically just as movelist versatile as any other fighting game

    i don't really consider there to be any difference in clueless play between the two styles, other than a clueless smash player having a lot more freedom to run around, rather than just back up or run forward

    7UVunkN.jpg
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  • JimothyJimothy Not in front of the fox he's with the owlRegistered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    A thought that occurred to me earlier was that Sakurai directs each of these games as if it will be the last Smash he's ever in charge of, and the effect of that direction is felt more sharply in each entry from Brawl onward. Smash Ultimate is the apotheosis of this ethos; it is everything and the kitchen sink, in that SSBU has as much as they can cram in while still being able to keep it polished to a level of quality in keeping with their vision.

    Sakurai said some time ago that Ultimate represented literally as much as could be reasonably put into one game of this kind, and that future installments would need to be scaled back just as a matter of practicality. And you know what? I believe that. The further along we get, the more resource-intensive each individual fighter is, and the more difficult it is to build individuals from scratch or balance around them. Smash can't keep growing forever; at some point, just for the sake of being made, it needs to contract, however temporarily.

    So that got me to thinking, too. Suppose that you know that the Smash that comes out for the Switch's successor will be reduced in scale (but this will be compensated for in some way, like all characters being redesigned from the ground up, visually or mechanically or however you please).

    How small a roster would you be OK with having in that particular game?

    If you had your druthers, how would you dictate what characters are included? How do you handle series representation? Individual characters per series? Third parties? New vs old?

    Would you be willing to cut one or even more of the original 12?

    I'm curious about y'all's takes on that

    I do think people are far too precious about "the original twelve," I would definitely cut Jigglypuff, who didn't even feel relevant at the time of release and feels more grandfathered in at this point.

    But I would also do something really weird, like I have this idea for a Double Dash-style Smash entry, where everyone is an Ice Climbers-esque pair: Mario/Luigi, Link/Zelda, Pikachu/Eevee, Kirby/Rick, Peach/Toad, Bowser/Bowser Jr, Samus/Baby Metroid, Sonic/Tails, Rosalina/Luma, Olimar/Pikmin, etc. Some half-clones as unlockables, like Mario/Yoshi and Zelda/Impa

    I would also change the in-game artstyle to be more similar to the Smash 64 boxart

    Frem
  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    I think Smash is easily the most accessible fighting game because it at least FEELS like you're doing something, and you can do most of the characters' moves right from the jump, and you already have characters you're interested in because there's not a person in the world who doesn't know at least ONE character in the game

    6F32U1X.png
    ZonugalLindsay LohanSirEtchwartsDoctorArchLord_AsmodeusEmerlmaster999darunia106BlankzillaOlivawkimeDrDinosaurStiltsFrem
  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    A thought that occurred to me earlier was that Sakurai directs each of these games as if it will be the last Smash he's ever in charge of, and the effect of that direction is felt more sharply in each entry from Brawl onward. Smash Ultimate is the apotheosis of this ethos; it is everything and the kitchen sink, in that SSBU has as much as they can cram in while still being able to keep it polished to a level of quality in keeping with their vision.

    Sakurai said some time ago that Ultimate represented literally as much as could be reasonably put into one game of this kind, and that future installments would need to be scaled back just as a matter of practicality. And you know what? I believe that. The further along we get, the more resource-intensive each individual fighter is, and the more difficult it is to build individuals from scratch or balance around them. Smash can't keep growing forever; at some point, just for the sake of being made, it needs to contract, however temporarily.

    So that got me to thinking, too. Suppose that you know that the Smash that comes out for the Switch's successor will be reduced in scale (but this will be compensated for in some way, like all characters being redesigned from the ground up, visually or mechanically or however you please).

    How small a roster would you be OK with having in that particular game?

    If you had your druthers, how would you dictate what characters are included? How do you handle series representation? Individual characters per series? Third parties? New vs old?

    Would you be willing to cut one or even more of the original 12?

    I'm curious about y'all's takes on that

    Drop literally everyone who has been in Ultimate. Fresh start, all new roster.

    9m1sgpgi7202.gif
  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    I will sacrifice Samus, my number one lady for all time, for this conviction. Only when you have slaughtered every sacred cow, when you can truly let the past be the past, can you create something truly new.

    9m1sgpgi7202.gif
    JimothyTamerBillkime
  • JimothyJimothy Not in front of the fox he's with the owlRegistered User regular
    Oh and Piranha Plant/Goomba or something

    Actually, if building the roster from the ground up, I'd want more weird choices like Piranha

    I also want a one-off game that is all sidekicks, like Luigi, Tails, etc but no Mario

    Or one that's all villains

    Or one that swaps the assist trophies and main roster, mainly so I can play as Bomberman

  • TurambarTurambar Avocado at law Registered User regular
    Hmm, never really mained a character

    Maybe a Fox-clone, a Marth-clone and a Link-clone

    Those are the ones I'm most familiar with

    Maybe Incineroar, but I need to see how he feels first

    Steam: turamb | Origin: Turamb | 3DS: 3411-1109-4537 | NNID: Turambar
  • TayaTaya Hit refresh Registered User regular
    In 64 I played Link or Pikachu. In Melee and Brawl I played exclusively Ice Climbers. In Smash 4 I played Wii Fit Trainer or Robin but I didn't play Smash 4 all that often.

  • JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    Only one I played consistently enough to have a main was Brawl, and I mained Metaknight because he was Kirby with a sword.

    Certainly had nothing to do with the fact that he was the only character good enough to let me even remotely keep up with the intense no items final destination players that lived in my dorm.

    Steam | SW-0844-0908-6004 and my Switch code
  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    I find that every fighting game has one top-tier character that I cannot stand to watch and will instantly make me root against whoever's playing them

    in Dragon Ball FighterZ, it's Cell

    and in Smash, it's the cursed Diddy Kong

    6F32U1X.png
  • NeveronNeveron SwedenRegistered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    A thought that occurred to me earlier was that Sakurai directs each of these games as if it will be the last Smash he's ever in charge of, and the effect of that direction is felt more sharply in each entry from Brawl onward. Smash Ultimate is the apotheosis of this ethos; it is everything and the kitchen sink, in that SSBU has as much as they can cram in while still being able to keep it polished to a level of quality in keeping with their vision.

    Sakurai said some time ago that Ultimate represented literally as much as could be reasonably put into one game of this kind, and that future installments would need to be scaled back just as a matter of practicality. And you know what? I believe that. The further along we get, the more resource-intensive each individual fighter is, and the more difficult it is to build individuals from scratch or balance around them. Smash can't keep growing forever; at some point, just for the sake of being made, it needs to contract, however temporarily.

    So that got me to thinking, too. Suppose that you know that the Smash that comes out for the Switch's successor will be reduced in scale (but this will be compensated for in some way, like all characters being redesigned from the ground up, visually or mechanically or however you please).

    How small a roster would you be OK with having in that particular game?

    If you had your druthers, how would you dictate what characters are included? How do you handle series representation? Individual characters per series? Third parties? New vs old?

    Would you be willing to cut one or even more of the original 12?

    I'm curious about y'all's takes on that

    Cutting characters from the 64 roster isn't very difficult. Jigglypuff hasn't been particularly relevant in a while, and both Ness and Captain Falcon haven't had any games in over a decade.

    If I were to make a "realistic" cut-down roster from the current one, well:
    01 Mario
    02 Donkey Kong
    03 Link
    04 Samus
    05 Yoshi
    06 Kirby
    07 Fox
    08 Pikachu
    09 Luigi

    13 Peach
    14 Bowser
    17 Zelda

    30 Wario
    40 Olimar

    45 Villager

    Add third-party characters as discussions allow, the protagonists of the newest few Fire Emblem games, and a current-gen Pokémon or two. (A current-gen Pokémon Trainer might work as a concept.)

    If you haven't gotten a game in a decade and aren't a beloved mascot, you get cut. Luigi only gets saved by virtue of promoting Luigi's Mansion, or else I'd cut down the Mario representation to just Mario/Peach/Bowser. Ganondorf got cut by absenteeism but you could probably squeeze in a Ganon?
    I still can't see them doing this, though, because that cuts a lot of fan favorites (Ness!) just for the sake of bringing the character count down to 15ish.

    ssEXN.png
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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    I find that every fighting game has one top-tier character that I cannot stand to watch and will instantly make me root against whoever's playing them

    in Dragon Ball FighterZ, it's Cell

    and in Smash, it's the cursed Diddy Kong

    Makes sense Diddy Kong and Cell are basically the same character.

    9m1sgpgi7202.gif
  • Bluedude152Bluedude152 Registered User regular
    The early days of 4 with ip air only diddy were the worst

    p0a2ody6sqnt.jpg
    Crippl3
  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    if you had to have a wildly different take on Smash, I would want them to pursue the route of having it be a crossover of the history of games, rather than just Nintendo, which they already do a lot of

    take existing roster characters that are historically significant, add in new ones, and then group them by decade of origin, which would result like this
    1970s
    01 Pac-Man
    02 Pitfall Harry
    03 Professor Atari [a composition character of Atari games like a Pong paddle and a Combat tank]
    04 Space Invader
    05 Zork Adventurer

    1980s
    06 Donkey Kong
    07 Duck Hunt
    08 Link
    09 Mario
    10 Mega Man
    11 Mr. Game & Watch
    12 Ryu / Ken
    13 Snake
    14 Tetris Piece

    1990s
    15 Cloud
    16 Crash Bandicoot
    17 Doom Guy / BJ Blazkowicz
    18 Lara Croft
    19 Pokemon Trainer
    20 Ryo Hazuki
    21 Sonic
    22 Scorpion / Sub Zero

    2000s
    23 Geralt of Rivia
    24 Marcus Fenix
    25 Master Chief
    26 - 28 Mii Fighters
    29 Minecraft Steve
    30 Nathan Drake
    31 Phoenix Wright
    32 Yu Narukami

    2010s
    33 2B
    34 Cuphead / Mugman
    35 Dovahkiin
    36 Gomez (Fez)
    37 Inklings
    38 Max Caulfield
    39 Shovel Knight
    40 Wanderer (Journey)

    6F32U1X.png
    Chall
  • JimothyJimothy Not in front of the fox he's with the owlRegistered User regular
    Oh another thought would be every character reflecting a different game

    They’re kind of doing this with the Zelda characters, since most of them come from a different game in the series (ALBW Zelda, BotW Link, OoT Ganon and Sheik, MM Young Link, WW Toon Link)

    Extend that to the rest of the cast

    SMW Yoshi, Fusion Samus, SMB3 Mario, Galaxy Luigi, etc

  • NeveronNeveron SwedenRegistered User regular
    Jimothy wrote: »
    Oh another thought would be every character reflecting a different game

    They’re kind of doing this with the Zelda characters, since most of them come from a different game in the series (ALBW Zelda, BotW Link, OoT Ganon and Sheik, MM Young Link, WW Toon Link)

    Extend that to the rest of the cast

    SMW Yoshi, Fusion Samus, SMB3 Mario, Galaxy Luigi, etc

    They already have Yoshi's Island Yoshi and Luigi's Mansion 3 Luigi, no need to change that. Especially since SMW Yoshi doesn't have much going on, and he's in representing his own series these days.
    SMO Mario and Samus Returns Samus would also make more sense, I think?

    ssEXN.png
    One Punch Man webcomic [NSFW]|english index|original japanese|
    Timestones
  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    I think Smash is easily the most accessible fighting game because it at least FEELS like you're doing something, and you can do most of the characters' moves right from the jump, and you already have characters you're interested in because there's not a person in the world who doesn't know at least ONE character in the game

    I'm going to play smash with my 6 year old and it will be the best time because he'll be able to button mash and knock me out with his favorite character, Luigi.

    Switch Friend Code: SW-6732-9515-9697
  • JimothyJimothy Not in front of the fox he's with the owlRegistered User regular
    Neveron wrote: »
    Jimothy wrote: »
    Oh another thought would be every character reflecting a different game

    They’re kind of doing this with the Zelda characters, since most of them come from a different game in the series (ALBW Zelda, BotW Link, OoT Ganon and Sheik, MM Young Link, WW Toon Link)

    Extend that to the rest of the cast

    SMW Yoshi, Fusion Samus, SMB3 Mario, Galaxy Luigi, etc

    They already have Yoshi's Island Yoshi and Luigi's Mansion 3 Luigi, no need to change that. Especially since SMW Yoshi doesn't have much going on, and he's in representing his own series these days.
    SMO Mario and Samus Returns Samus would also make more sense, I think?

    That’s definitely not YI Yoshi, just going by the voice and stature. It’s maybe Yoshi’s Story Yoshi but is more of a composite, like most of the characters in the roster

    I’m trying to propose something more specific and not necessarily as most-recent-game focused

    Give me the weirdness of NES Pit (like the Melee trophy) alongside Uprising Dark Pit

    Sonic Generations but for everyone

  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    My reaction to the Lore Mode trailer was pretty ho-hum but all the art people are making of it is something else. :(

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
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  • timspork's ghosttimspork's ghost Master Librarian and Ghostbuster Registered User regular
    I didn't realize the duck was trying to lift the dog away while the dog just covered his eyes.

    (Switch Friend Code) SW-4910-9735-6014(PSN) timspork (Steam) timspork


  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    I didn't realize the duck was trying to lift the dog away while the dog just covered his eyes.
    There'e so many little touches I have to rewatch and find.

    My favorite is Bayonetta never breaks kayfabe and is still smiling as she gets hit

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  • JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    The Inklings covering the ground to duck into it and then just have the ground blasted away is my second favorite. #1 is of course the box.

    Steam | SW-0844-0908-6004 and my Switch code
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  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    A thought that occurred to me earlier was that Sakurai directs each of these games as if it will be the last Smash he's ever in charge of, and the effect of that direction is felt more sharply in each entry from Brawl onward. Smash Ultimate is the apotheosis of this ethos; it is everything and the kitchen sink, in that SSBU has as much as they can cram in while still being able to keep it polished to a level of quality in keeping with their vision.

    Sakurai said some time ago that Ultimate represented literally as much as could be reasonably put into one game of this kind, and that future installments would need to be scaled back just as a matter of practicality. And you know what? I believe that. The further along we get, the more resource-intensive each individual fighter is, and the more difficult it is to build individuals from scratch or balance around them. Smash can't keep growing forever; at some point, just for the sake of being made, it needs to contract, however temporarily.

    So that got me to thinking, too. Suppose that you know that the Smash that comes out for the Switch's successor will be reduced in scale (but this will be compensated for in some way, like all characters being redesigned from the ground up, visually or mechanically or however you please).

    How small a roster would you be OK with having in that particular game?

    If you had your druthers, how would you dictate what characters are included? How do you handle series representation? Individual characters per series? Third parties? New vs old?

    Would you be willing to cut one or even more of the original 12?

    I'm curious about y'all's takes on that

    Tch!!! Smash fans!!! Always banning and cutting!!!

    But to take the question with seriousness befitting how it's been presented, my directorial strategy would be to go all-in on the Echo Fighter concept. Models are expensive to make, admittedly, but I think you still get a savings on dev time by compressing characters in that way. However, I'd make sure that the Echoes all had statistical differences on the level of a light smattering of custom parts, and the special moves would be parameterized to Hell and back to make each Echo feel unique.

    Examples:
    - Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Waluigi are the same character. Mario's fsmash uses fire, Luigi uses lightning, Wario uses his whole fist, and Waluigi pulls out a bobomb. They all have a spin for down-B, but Mario's is a short hop, Luigi's rises, Wario's spins in place, and Waluigi's lunges forward.
    - Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Fusion Suit Samus, and Dark Samus are now the same character. ZSS has more of a Justin Bailey look.
    - Ness, Lucas, Paula, and Kumatora are now the same character.
    - Stick all the Marths in the same slot. Throw Eirika and Lyn in for good measure.

    And so on. If necessary, use a small icon on the CSS to show the major statistical differences e.g. if you swap to Luigi from Mario, icons show you that he's faster but lighter than Mario.

    I think that would be the best compromise in terms of keeping characters around while reducing the gameplay-development workload. (Admittedly, this might be saving resources on the cheap thing while expanding the role of the expensive thing.)

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
  • Emerlmaster999Emerlmaster999 Scarf Prince Registered User regular
    Wii Fit Trainer getting in one more rep before the inevitable was real good.

    JayKaosLindsay LohanBlankzillaOlivawNiryaSirEtchwartsDJ EebsStiltsFrem
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Oh good someone did the thing I thought about.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
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  • BedigunzBedigunz Registered User regular
    Personally I love Captain Falcon trying to get in his car to drive away but gets incinerated before he even gets in.

    cdmAF00.png
    Coran Attack!
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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    My favorite was snake just hiding in his fucking box.

    Steam name: munkus_beaver
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  • NeveronNeveron SwedenRegistered User regular
    Jimothy wrote: »
    Neveron wrote: »
    Jimothy wrote: »
    Oh another thought would be every character reflecting a different game

    They’re kind of doing this with the Zelda characters, since most of them come from a different game in the series (ALBW Zelda, BotW Link, OoT Ganon and Sheik, MM Young Link, WW Toon Link)

    Extend that to the rest of the cast

    SMW Yoshi, Fusion Samus, SMB3 Mario, Galaxy Luigi, etc

    They already have Yoshi's Island Yoshi and Luigi's Mansion 3 Luigi, no need to change that. Especially since SMW Yoshi doesn't have much going on, and he's in representing his own series these days.
    SMO Mario and Samus Returns Samus would also make more sense, I think?

    That’s definitely not YI Yoshi, just going by the voice and stature. It’s maybe Yoshi’s Story Yoshi but is more of a composite, like most of the characters in the roster

    I’m trying to propose something more specific and not necessarily as most-recent-game focused

    Give me the weirdness of NES Pit (like the Melee trophy) alongside Uprising Dark Pit

    Sonic Generations but for everyone

    My specific problem with Super Mario World Yoshi is that he's pretty different - no flutter hover, no egg throwing, just a dumb dinosaur with a tongue and maybe fire breath/wings/ earthquake stomps depending on what Koopa they eat. It's first with Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island that the Yoshis actually get shit.
    Much like how, say, original Luigi is just green Mario or OG Kirby can't copy abilities. Yoshi changes a lot between those two games.

    Also, if you want a Mario that is recognizably a Specific Mario and not just whoever then you're probably best off with Super Mario Sunshine since you can replace all his special with assorted F.L.U.D.D. stuff?

    ssEXN.png
    One Punch Man webcomic [NSFW]|english index|original japanese|
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    darunia106 wrote: »
    Suplexing > boxing

    I thought smash was real, like wrestling, but it turns out it's fake, like boxing!

    BahamutZERO.gif
    ShortyEmerlmaster999Crippl3OmnipotentBagel
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    My favorite was snake just hiding in his fucking box.

    Was he in the box? There wasn't a ! or anything...

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  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular


    I like playing as a lot of different characters

    yes you do, which is good because it's the only thing that allows me to beat you half the time

  • NeveronNeveron SwedenRegistered User regular
    Wii Fit Trainer getting in one more rep before the inevitable was real good.
    She has i-frames on that move, and you'll note how she lasts a bit longer before disintegrating.
    My favorite was snake just hiding in his fucking box.
    Snake canonically finds being in the box very calming, so it's presumably just him trying to find some peace before he dies.
    ...Or he's trying to hide and hoping they don't find him. Either or, really.

    Fun little easter eggs.

    ssEXN.png
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    Frem
  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    I'm not here to complain about you guys who love the game. I'm trying to understand the interest.

    I've played games since Atari2600. I loved fighting games, especially the Capcom series of SF/Crossover games. But when Smash first came out, I just couldnt get into it. it seemed like too simple a game with only two attack buttons, and no 'motions' to trigger specials. I've tried various other smashes as the years passed but still couldnt get into it. I also think my particular gaming generation was a bit out of touch when these games came out, so it was never the nostaligic thing it was for many people.

    So I have to wonder, how much is your love for smash just 'because thats what i grew up with', and how much is 'because its an amazing game with deep gameplay'.
    Okay, so academically, all fighting games share a sort of core loop, which is something like

    Struggle for good positioning > Land a solid hit > Attempt to follow up from an advantageous position > Repeat

    For most traditional fighting games, this is utterly opaque to me. The movement is stilted and awkward. The motions are hard to do consistently. The margin of error on combo strings is miniscule. Like, I go for a jab or whatever. I have a couple of frames to recognize whether it hit or not. If it hits I want to go onto X sequence of combo attacks, every one of which will fail if I'm more than a frame or two off. If the initial jab is blocked I want to go into totally different attack sequence Y to apply block pressure, which will likewise fail and get me hit if I'm more than a frame or two off. What actually happens is I can't process fast enough and I just get flustered and end up flailing erratically. There's so much rote muscle memory that needs to be built up before you can even BEGIN to engage with the game's real depth in an even vaguely meaningful way.

    In Smash, the movement is so fluid and natural. The attacks are so simple and intuitive. I'm going for this one hit. If it's blocked I'll block or evade. If it hits they'll go flying and I'll have (comparatively speaking) all the time in the world to land another single discrete follow-up hit or maneuver myself into a position I think is advantageous. I immediately understand what I'm doing and what my options are, so I actually CAN participate in the depth that comes from figuring out positioning and pressure and mindgames. It's the only fighting game where that's ever been true for me.

    That analysis is probably kind of reductive on both sides but I think it gets my point across.

    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
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  • GreasyKidsStuffGreasyKidsStuff MOMMM! ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Brie Larson dressed as Samus for Halloween. Does Instagram imbed? Let’s find out:



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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    I will give $10 million for a Metroid movie starring Brie Larson

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  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    One thing I noticed is that Wii Fit Trainer survived in the beam the longest. Yoga strong, but not strong enough.

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    PSN: AuthorFrost
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  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Whose WFT was it that gave me so much trouble back in 4

    I know Wyvern's ROB, Speed's Yoshi or Mario, Gundi's Duck Hunt, chiasaur's Robin, Chopper Dave's Mega Man, somebody's Samus, Sterica's Dedede.... God, WFT might have been Wyvern's too, she used to kick the shit out of me up and down the street every time we had a tourney

    Wyborn on
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  • Werewolf2000adWerewolf2000ad Suckers, I know exactly what went wrong. Registered User regular
    Wyvern wrote: »
    azith28 wrote: »
    I'm not here to complain about you guys who love the game. I'm trying to understand the interest.

    I've played games since Atari2600. I loved fighting games, especially the Capcom series of SF/Crossover games. But when Smash first came out, I just couldnt get into it. it seemed like too simple a game with only two attack buttons, and no 'motions' to trigger specials. I've tried various other smashes as the years passed but still couldnt get into it. I also think my particular gaming generation was a bit out of touch when these games came out, so it was never the nostaligic thing it was for many people.

    So I have to wonder, how much is your love for smash just 'because thats what i grew up with', and how much is 'because its an amazing game with deep gameplay'.
    Okay, so academically, all fighting games share a sort of core loop, which is something like

    Struggle for good positioning > Land a solid hit > Attempt to follow up from an advantageous position > Repeat

    For most traditional fighting games, this is utterly opaque to me. The movement is stilted and awkward. The motions are hard to do consistently. The margin of error on combo strings is miniscule. Like, I go for a jab or whatever. I have a couple of frames to recognize whether it hit or not. If it hits I want to go onto X sequence of combo attacks, every one of which will fail if I'm more than a frame or two off. If the initial jab is blocked I want to go into totally different attack sequence Y to apply block pressure, which will likewise fail and get me hit if I'm more than a frame or two off. What actually happens is I can't process fast enough and I just get flustered and end up flailing erratically. There's so much rote muscle memory that needs to be built up before you can even BEGIN to engage with the game's real depth in an even vaguely meaningful way.

    In Smash, the movement is so fluid and natural. The attacks are so simple and intuitive. I'm going for this one hit. If it's blocked I'll block or evade. If it hits they'll go flying and I'll have (comparatively speaking) all the time in the world to land another single discrete follow-up hit or maneuver myself into a position I think is advantageous. I immediately understand what I'm doing and what my options are, so I actually CAN participate in the depth that comes from figuring out positioning and pressure and mindgames. It's the only fighting game where that's ever been true for me.

    That analysis is probably kind of reductive on both sides but I think it gets my point across.

    THIS. I'm reminded of the fantastic metaphor I saw recently in the comments on a YouTube fighting game video: Learning to play modern fighting games is like trying to learn guitar by someone showing you what strings and frets are, then immediately locking you in a room to play duels against Steve Vai.

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